Children are innocent, not guilty of any sin

[Obadiah]

Infants are born innocent. They “have no knowledge of good or evil”.

And the little ones that you said would be taken captive, your children who do not yet know good from bad—they will enter the land. I will give it to them and they will take possession of it.
Deut. 1:39

They cannot be responsible to the law of God and thus sin.

Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.
1 John 3:4

Because of the purity of children, those who aspire to enter the kingdom of heaven must become child-like.

And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matt. 18:3

Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”
Matt. 19:14

Even Christians are admonished to be “babes” in malice.

Brothers and sisters, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults.
1 Cor. 14:20

As we mature enough to choose either evil or good.

He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right
Isa. 7:15

Because of our weakness of the flesh we eventually choose to sin.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yet it is an ancient theology of our creation...how has Christianity missed it? By it being ignored and just not taught as a possibility?

Ted,,,,,those the Apostles taught are so much more intelligent than we are AND they had the advantage of learning from
the APOSTLES.....

So nothing was ignored.
It's just that what you teach has never been taught by the church.

A person is born when he is born.
He was not born BEFORE he was born.

In John 3:5 Jesus stated that a person must be born AGAIN...
What do you think He meant?

This is what He meant:
A person must be born one time physically.
and then AGAIN,,,
that person must be born spiritually.

Are there any verses in the NT that you could use for support of your view?

 

[GodsGrace]

So far I only see a meaningless red herring of some sort...explain your point or get off the stage.

Yes,,,I know it's difficult to reply to questions when the topic at hand is not biblical.
Perhaps YOU should get off the stage with this nonsense of your
FOR WHICH YOU HAVE NO BIBLICAL SUPPORT.

You use the OT, which is not always to be taken literally, for support for an unbiblical viewpoint.

So I asked you:

WHERE did Rebekah go to speak to God?
Does He have an office somewhere on earth?
HOW did God reply to her?
Did He send her an email?

If you don't understand the questions...it explains a lot about why you don't
understand the OT.

 

[GodsGrace]

I've read it all but it was the Holy Spirit that convinced me it was the truth....

It's funny....
We all attribute what we know to the Holy Spirit...
and yet each one of us has different knowledge about different topics.

Here's what I do Ted:
I ATTEND MAINLINE CHURCHES AND SEE WHAT THEY HAVE TO TEACH...
This is because theologians know a lot more than we do and they know HOW to read the bible.
So I've been to 3....
And, basically, they taught the same.

So I'm secure in what I know.
We're not supposed to be making up our own doctrine, we should be united in doctrine:

Philippians 1:27
27 Only conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or remain absent, I will hear of you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
1 Corinthians 1:10
10I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.
Matthew 23:8
8But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers.

 

[GodsGrace]

If false revelations prove all revelations are false that we are left with nothing...

I said NEW REVELATION...
IOW
There is NO NEW revelation.
New revelations are never biblical.

 

[GodsGrace]

Everyone who claims that GOD made us sinners of some sort (of any sort!) in Adam! That they hide this truism from themselves by doublethink does not prove anything....

Created sinful in Adam means:
- before my creation there was x amount of sin in the world.
- After my creation there was x+1 amount of sin in the world.
- Sinful in Adam means GOD creates sinners, a doctrine I detest.

I NEVER said God made us sinners.

Please don't repeat back to me things I DID NOT state.

I don't care what others state....they are not ME.
Thanks.

 

[GodsGrace]

Who said God created us evil?


Who said it does?

Well Ted...you were introduced to a heresy.
I'm not going to debate a heresy with you.
If you want to believe a heresy instead of mainline Christianity...
go right ahead.


I don't use Strong's.
I use the bible written by those that knew Jesus.

OK.
I'm done here.

I would venture to guess that your LIKE is for my statement that I'm done here.
And yet you continued to post...or maybe I'm mixing up my time to reply to you.

No matter....Let's do this:
Just don't even reply to me and I also won't reply to you if I get more posts from you.

 

[GodsGrace]

Riiiiight - the council declared some of the interpretations of his works as heresies without anyone knowing what they were....makes sense to some I guess.

Rather:

I DID warn you that some were gnostics.
It's a good thing to know.

 

[TedT]

Has the Holy Spirit come yet?
Or are we still waiting for Him?

Of course...but He hasn't spoken His last bit to us yet.

 

[TedT]

You don't need to quote strong's so the rest of us blokes know you didn't make it up.
NEWS FLASH: WE have bibles too!
We could look up the words for ourselves.

Strong's isn't JUST about what word is used but is also about what options of interpretation are found within the words...

 

[GodsGrace]

Strong's isn't JUST about what word is used but is also about what options of interpretation are found within the words...

Must be closing down ....
We have the interpretations of the words.
The bible has already been translated.
Most use Strong's to try to wiggle out of the context of verses.

Did you get my PM?
I don't really have time for this sort of back and forth that leads to nowhere.
See you around....
'night.

 

[TedT]

They cannot be responsible to the law of God and thus sin.

Yet they suffer the wages of sin - death - and it is only sin which is said to give birth to death, JAMES 1:14.

How can the GOD who is LOVE, who is righteous and just, force the innocent to suffer the results of sin??? !!!

 

[TedT]

I NEVER said God made us sinners.

Then answer: IF infants are not sinful then why do they die???

 

[Cosmo]

Then answer: IF infants are not sinful then why do they die???

Their hearts stop beating. Nothing to do with sin. Medical diseases & conditions or accidents. Or child abuse, but that's someone's else's sin.

 

[TedT]

Their hearts stop beating. Nothing to do with sin. Medical diseases & conditions or accidents. Or child abuse, but that's someone's else's sin.

The bible says it is sin which causes death and that death is the wages for sin not a consequence of life. I'm sorry, I missed the part where you said you don't follow scripture.

 

[Cosmo]

Your sorry because you have the wrong answer. Let me help you out.

Are Young Children innocent, not guilty of any sin? Correct answer is They Are Not.​

 

[Bassnah]

Their hearts stop beating. Nothing to do with sin. Medical diseases & conditions or accidents. Or child abuse, but that's someone's else's sin.

So, your infant is killed in a horrible car wreak and you tell people sin killed him. Sure, that's clear and easy to understand.

 

[TedT]

Apropos of being born sinful, we have not yet covered Jesus Healing the Man Born Blind...

John 9:1 Now as Jesus was passing by, He saw a man blind from birth, 2 and His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

3 Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but this happened so that the works of God would be displayed in him. ”

Notice He doesn't say that neither this man nor his parents sinned because no one can sin as an infant before their birth as the herring down the rabbit hole commonly has it, but that his blindness was to be for the glory of GOD, because the healing a man born blind was supposedly one of the four miracles only the Messiah could perform, a significant sign!

How does it make sense that the disciples ask if the man was born blind due to his own sin, if they did not believe in the pre-existence of the spirit/person able to sin before their birth on earth? I doubt they were Calvinists! Notice Jesus did not chastise them for making an error about his / their creation but only about the reason for his suffering.

In sum:
- Jesus did not say that no one could sin before his birth, an obvious rebuke if they were in error.
- Jesus did not say that he must have inherited sin from his parents, another obvious answer for today's denominations.

People were obviously aware of the idea that a man could sin before he was born and could be sinners in the womb even if it was not commonly accepted but consider, it did come right to the minds of His disciples after three years of listening to Him.

And before I'm tarred with the Calvinist brush, I contend that Calvin was totally wrong about our inheriting sin from Adam and I consider that source of the sinfulness of infants as a hersey as it tends to impugne the righteous, loving and just nature of GOD.

 

[TedT]

So, your infant is killed in a horrible car wreak and you tell people sin killed him. Sure, that's clear and easy to understand.

No, I do not do this, I will not do this...
but if any come to me as a man of GOD (as a few have) to ask seriously about what I believe is the cause of all suffering and death in this world, I tell then that I believe that ANY AND ALL sin is by our own free will, not Adam nor GOD. Our choice to sin is the only cause of suffering and death in this world.

No one has freaked out yet...because I go on to say: the elect, legitimate sons of GOD, suffer in their training in righteousness: Heb 12:5-11 but that some die young by having attained righteousness quickly and are then removed as a blessing, Isaiah 57:1 The righteous perish, and no one takes it to heart; devout men are taken away, while no one considers that the righteous are taken away from the presence of evil. and while do we not ordinarily believe that the infant can learn righteousness in the womb: Ps 51:6 Behold, thou desirest truth / faithfulness in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom. teaches us, to my mind, that they can learn wisdom and the truth in the womb, so dying in the womb for sin does NOT necessarily indicate the loss of the child to perdition.

 

[GodsGrace]

Apropos of being born sinful, we have not yet covered Jesus Healing the Man Born Blind...

John 9:1 Now as Jesus was passing by, He saw a man blind from birth, 2 and His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

3 Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but this happened so that the works of God would be displayed in him. ”

Notice He doesn't say that neither this man nor his parents sinned because no one can sin as an infant before their birth as the herring down the rabbit hole commonly has it, but that his blindness was to be for the glory of GOD, because the healing a man born blind was supposedly one of the four miracles only the Messiah could perform, a significant sign!

How does it make sense that the disciples ask if the man was born blind due to his own sin, if they did not believe in the pre-existence of the spirit/person able to sin before their birth on earth? I doubt they were Calvinists! Notice Jesus did not chastise them for making an error about his / their creation but only about the reason for his suffering.

In sum:
- Jesus did not say that no one could sin before his birth, an obvious rebuke if they were in error.
- Jesus did not say that he must have inherited sin from his parents, another obvious answer for today's denominations.

People were obviously aware of the idea that a man could sin before he was born and could be sinners in the womb even if it was not commonly accepted but consider, it did come right to the minds of His disciples after three years of listening to Him.

And before I'm tarred with the Calvinist brush, I contend that Calvin was totally wrong about our inheriting sin from Adam and I consider that source of the sinfulness of infants as a hersey as it tends to impugne the righteous, loving and just nature of GOD.

Yeah.
It's tough going when Jesus doesn't say exactly what YOU would want Him to have said.

But remember this:
ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE
IS NOT PROOF OF ABSENCE.

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