Calvin on unlimited atonement

[Jim]

everyone believes who had been Justified by Christ. If Christ died for a person, they are free from the Law and not condemned, so they are given Faith to believe.

That is a really a senseless and pointless statement. To have faith in God means exactly the same as to believe in God. So you are proclaiming that "they are given faith to have faith". That is much the same as saying "they are saved to be saved".

The written word of God is given so that we can and will believe in God, i.e., have faith. If man is given faith, there is absolutely no reason for the Bible.

 

[civic]

That is a really a senseless and pointless statement. To have faith in God means exactly the same as to believe in God. So you are proclaiming that "they are given faith to have faith". That is much the same as saying "they are saved to be saved".

The written word of God is given so that we can and will believe in God, i.e., have faith. If man is given faith, there is absolutely no reason for the Bible.

Amen faith comes by hearing and hearing by the words of Christ

Romans 10:14-17
How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” 16But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?”17Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

Some give lip service to Gods Holy Word and do not believe what God has said but they have itchy ears and twist the scriptures to their own destruction with their man made doctrines just like the religious pharisees of Jesus day.

 

[brightfame52]

Why did you ignore this?



What causes you to oppose the word of God?

Faith/believing are evidences of Justification and being righteous. Only a righteous man believes God

 

[civic]

Faith/believing are evidences of Justification and being righteous. Only a righteous man believes God

No one is justified, saved or born again prior to believing the gospel

 

[brightfame52]

Can you actually deal with the verses quoted?

Faith and believing are evidences of Justification

 

[civic]

Faith and believing are evidences of Justification

Nope just the opposite

 

[brightfame52]

That is a really a senseless and pointless statement. To have faith in God means exactly the same as to believe in God. So you are proclaiming that "they are given faith to have faith". That is much the same as saying "they are saved to be saved".

The written word of God is given so that we can and will believe in God, i.e., have faith. If man is given faith, there is absolutely no reason for the Bible.

everyone believes who had been Justified by Christ. If Christ died for a person, they are free from the Law and not condemned, so they are given Faith to believe. You cant believe if you are condemned Jn 3:18

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The ones believing show evidence they are not condemned, but he that does not believe [permanently] gives evidence they are condemned by the law. If we are condemned by the Law we are under obligation to keep the law perfectly, which puts you under the curse, you were never redeemed from it Gal 3;13

If we are only in adam, we are condemned, and owe obedience to the law, we have no right to believe in Jesus, we havent been divorced from the law Rom 7:4

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Agreed.

Calvinism, however, can hold to regeneration before belief.

which would make them in error

 

[Jim]

Faith and believing are evidences of Justification

Faith in God and believing in God are the same thing. Faith is the noun, believing is the verb. Faith [i.e., believing] is the reason and the basis for justification.

Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it [believing] was counted to him as righteousness."

Rom 4:23 But the words "it was counted to him" were not written for his sake alone,
Rom 4:24 but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord,
Rom 4:25 who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

John 3 makes it clear. We are born again by placing our faith in the cross..

Not before we believe. when we believe (at that moment)

 

[brightfame52]

No one is justified, saved or born again prior to believing the gospel

Those whom Christ died for and put away their sins against the law, are born Justified from sin [legally] but still born spiritually dead and unregenerate, however because they are Justified by the blood of Christ, they will be regenerated and given Faith to believe in Him who justified them. The Gospel will be sent to them !

 

[brightfame52]

Nope just the opposite

Yes they are evidences not conditions.

 

[brightfame52]

Faith in God and believing in God are the same thing. Faith is the noun, believing is the verb. Faith [i.e., believing] is the reason and the basis for justification.

Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it [believing] was counted to him as righteousness."

Rom 4:23 But the words "it was counted to him" were not written for his sake alone,
Rom 4:24 but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord,
Rom 4:25 who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.

When Abraham believed God it was an evidence he was a righteous man.

 

[Jim]

Those whom Christ died for and put away their sins against the law, are born Justified from sin [legally] but still born spiritually dead and unregenerate, however because they are Justified by the blood of Christ, they will be regenerated and given Faith to believe in Him who justified them. The Gospel will be sent to them !

The phrase "given faith to believe" is laughably stupid.

 

[Jim]

When Abraham believed God it was an evidence he was a righteous man.

That is not what it says. You obviously refuse to read and understand what it says and means.

 

[brightfame52]

which would make them in error

Belief of the Truth is an evidence of the fruit and work of the Spirit o Sanctification 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

no sanctification of the Spirit, no belief or the Truth or faith. The word belief is the same greek word for faith here.

 

[brightfame52]

The phrase "given faith to believe" is laughably stupid.

So does this sound laughable Jim ? Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

 

[TomL]

which would make them in error

Yes, it would

 

[TomL]

Faith and believing are evidences of Justification

You did not deal with the verses.

Romans 4:5 (LEB) — 5 But to the one who does not work, but who believes in the one who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited for righteousness,

Philippians 3:9 (LEB) — 9 and may be found in him, not having my righteousness which is from the law, but which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God on the basis of faith,

justified by faith

Romans 3:28 (LEB) — 28 For we consider a person to be justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

 

[TomL]

Faith/believing are evidences of Justification and being righteous. Only a righteous man believes God

You failed to addressc the verses

Believing causes one to be declared righteous

Romans 4:5 (LEB) — 5 But to the one who does not work, but who believes in the one who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited for righteousness,

Philippians 3:9 (LEB) — 9 and may be found in him, not having my righteousness which is from the law, but which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God on the basis of faith,