Baptism "en" the Holy Ghost

[TomL]

nonsense, the baptism "of" the Holy Spirit places one into the Body of Christ. the Baptism "WITH" the Holy Spirit empowers the believers with Gifts.

101G.

There is no baptism of the Holy Spirit

The is only the baptism en the Holy Spirit

1 Corinthians 12:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 For by (en) one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Matt 3:11“I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with (en) the Holy Spirit and fire.
Mark 1:8I have baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with (en) the Holy Spirit.”
Luke 3:16John answered them all, saying, “I baptize you with water, but he who is mightier than I is coming, the strap of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with (en) the Holy Spirit and fire.

It's all the same

The Greek verb baptizo the greek preposition en and the holy Spirit



Taking the last item first, it is clear that Paul is speaking about essentially the same kind of experience as did John, since he uses the same construction in the Greek, with the only difference being the addition of the word “one” [Spirit] and the past tense. He also uses the passive voice, but that is to be expected with the subject shifting from “He” [Jesus] to “we” [Christians]. If we conclude that Paul is speaking of the same experience as the other texts, then it should be clear that Spirit baptism could not be subsequent to conversion, since Paul says it is the means by which believers are incorporated into the body of Christ. It must happen at conversion, as was the case in Acts, as one of the constellations of Spirit blessings bestowed on believers at that moment—they are born of the Spirit (John 3:5), sealed in the Spirit (Eph. 1:13), and receive the gift of the indwelling Spirit (Rom. 8:9–11)1

1 Chad Brand, “Baptism With/in the Holy Spirit,” Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary (Nashville, TN: Holman Bible Publishers, 2003), 170.

Paul’s only use of the metaphor refers to reception of the Holy Spirit at conversion: “For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink” (1 Cor 12:13 NIV). Paul refers to the believers’ common experience of conversion and connects reception of the Spirit to conversion (compare Gal 3:3; 2 Cor 1:21–22; Eph 1:13–14; Rom 8:9). Peter’s statement in Acts 11:15–16 refers back to the simpler expression “received the Holy Spirit” in the narrative of Acts 10:47. Thus, the unified usage of the metaphor “baptism in the Holy Spirit” in the Gospels and Acts fits with Paul’s use of the phrase to refer to the reception of the Holy Spirit at conversion.1

1 Douglas S. Huffman and Jamie N. Hausherr, “Baptism of the Spirit,” The Lexham Bible Dictionary (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2016).

 

[101G]

There is no baptism of the Holy Spirit

The is only the baptism en the Holy Spirit

1 Corinthians 12:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 For by (en) one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Matt 3:11“I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with (en) the Holy Spirit and fire.
Mark 1:8I have baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with (en) the Holy Spirit.”
Luke 3:16John answered them all, saying, “I baptize you with water, but he who is mightier than I is coming, the strap of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with (en) the Holy Spirit and fire.

It's all the same

The Greek verb baptizo the greek preposition en and the holy Spirit



Taking the last item first, it is clear that Paul is speaking about essentially the same kind of experience as did John, since he uses the same construction in the Greek, with the only difference being the addition of the word “one” [Spirit] and the past tense. He also uses the passive voice, but that is to be expected with the subject shifting from “He” [Jesus] to “we” [Christians]. If we conclude that Paul is speaking of the same experience as the other texts, then it should be clear that Spirit baptism could not be subsequent to conversion, since Paul says it is the means by which believers are incorporated into the body of Christ. It must happen at conversion, as was the case in Acts, as one of the constellations of Spirit blessings bestowed on believers at that moment—they are born of the Spirit (John 3:5), sealed in the Spirit (Eph. 1:13), and receive the gift of the indwelling Spirit (Rom. 8:9–11)1

1 Chad Brand, “Baptism With/in the Holy Spirit,” Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary (Nashville, TN: Holman Bible Publishers, 2003), 170.

Paul’s only use of the metaphor refers to reception of the Holy Spirit at conversion: “For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink” (1 Cor 12:13 NIV). Paul refers to the believers’ common experience of conversion and connects reception of the Spirit to conversion (compare Gal 3:3; 2 Cor 1:21–22; Eph 1:13–14; Rom 8:9). Peter’s statement in Acts 11:15–16 refers back to the simpler expression “received the Holy Spirit” in the narrative of Acts 10:47. Thus, the unified usage of the metaphor “baptism in the Holy Spirit” in the Gospels and Acts fits with Paul’s use of the phrase to refer to the reception of the Holy Spirit at conversion.1

1 Douglas S. Huffman and Jamie N. Hausherr, “Baptism of the Spirit,” The Lexham Bible Dictionary (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2016).

John 3:3 "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:4 "Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?" John 3:5 "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

101G

 

[TomL]

John 3:3 "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:4 "Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?" John 3:5 "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

101G

Born of the spirit not baptism of the Spirit

try again

 

[101G]

Born of the spirit not baptism of the Spirit

try again

was you not baptized into his death, and rose to newness of life? ... translation NEW LIFE, born again... lol, Oh my God the Ignorance of people.

101G.

 

[TomL]

was you not baptized into his death, and rose to newness of life? ... translation NEW LIFE, born again... lol, Oh my God the Ignorance of people.

Baptized into his death - yes,

baptized into him - yes

baptized into water - no

born of the spirit - yes

baptism of the spirit - no the phrase appears nowhere in scripture

 

[mailmandan]

What testimony would there be if just the impartation of a spiritual gift was in view

where does one read you will receive a spiritual gift upon repentance

Reception of the spirit is promised upon repentance Acts 2:38

this is a soteriological experience

They were given the Spirit

Acts 15:6–9 (ESV) — 6 The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter. 7 And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, 9 and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith.

This is a salvation experience and not the mere reception of a spiritual gift

Amen! In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:47)

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So, the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

 

[TomL]

Amen! In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:47)

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So, the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

Yes The gentiles had received the Holy Spirit the seal of salvation before water baptism

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

note it is after one believes one is sealed in Christ by the Holy Spirit

Ephesians 4:30 (ESV) — 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

2 Corinthians 1:21–22 (KJV 1900) — 21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; 22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

 

[john]

The Holy Spirit is the medium we are baptized with

It is not the Pentecostal second blessing evidenced by speaking in tongues

Rather it is the experience all receive coming into the body of Christ

It is the Spirit sealing you in Christ (his body) when you trust in him

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

agreed

 

[TomL]

agreed

Great!

 

[Red Baker]

First, let me note "en" is not a typo.

It is Greek for a word which is variously interpreted by, in, or with by various translations sometimes inconsistently

These words Baptize "En" and the Holy Spirit appear six times in the citations below


Matthew 3:11 (ESV) — 11 “I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Matthew 3:11 (NA27) — 11 ἐγὼ μὲν ὑμᾶς βαπτίζω ἐν ὕδατι εἰς μετάνοιαν, ὁ δὲ ὀπίσω μου ἐρχόμενος ἰσχυρότερός μού ἐστιν, οὗ οὐκ εἰμὶ ἱκανὸς τὰ ὑποδήματα βαστάσαι· αὐτὸς ὑμᾶς βαπτίσει ἐν πνεύματι ἁγίῳ καὶ πυρί·

Mark 1:8 (ESV) — 8 I have baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

Luke 3:16 (ESV) — 16 John answered them all, saying, “I baptize you with water, but he who is mightier than I is coming, the strap of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

John 1:33 (ESV) — 33 I myself did not know him, but he who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’

Acts 1:5 (ESV) — 5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

There is a seventh where the same words appear in the Greek text but in a slightly different order

1 Corinthians 12:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:13 (NA27 Int.) — 13 καὶ γὰρ ἐν ἑνὶ πνεύματι ἡμεῖς πάντες εἰς ἓν σῶμα ἐβαπτίσθημεν, εἴτε Ἰουδαῖοι εἴτε Ἕλληνες εἴτε δοῦλοι εἴτε ἐλεύθεροι, καὶ πάντες ἓν πνεῦμα ἐποτίσθημεν.

And it references the baptism with the Holy Spirit seen in the previous six verses

Christ is the baptizer

The Holy Spirit is the medium we are baptized with

It is not the Pentecostal second blessing evidenced by speaking in tongues

Rather it is the experience all receive coming into the body of Christ

It is the Spirit sealing you in Christ (his body) when you trust in him

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Thanks Tom directing me to this post where you said much more to help me to see where you are coming from, even though I know of brethren that use the same references.

I'll get back after a couple of other things I must do,

 

[TomL]

Thanks Tom directing me to this post where you said much more to help me to see where you are coming from, even though I know of brethren that use the same references.

I'll get back after a couple of other things I must do,

Ok take your time

 

[civic]

Thanks Tom directing me to this post where you said much more to help me to see where you are coming from, even though I know of brethren that use the same references.

I'll get back after a couple of other things I must do,

I'm looking forward to your discussion.

 

[TomL]

I'm looking forward to your discussion.

Yes lets see.

 

[Red Baker]

I'll look into this subject this week, for now, I'm dealing with another subject on another forum that's taking my available time, but I do want to address this subject as well.

 

[Red Baker]

Actually, there is. The Holy Spirit was promised to everyone who is baptized into Christ (Acts 2:38)

Greetings Doug,

While I have not read every single post you have posted, yet, I have read enough from your post to know your baptismal regeneration doctrine is false.

The sense you put upon Acts 2:38 is wrong. What comes when one is baptized into Jesus Christ's religion is the knowledge of the indwelling Spirit of God. This understanding, along with other spiritual benefits, is given to those who give to God, an answer of a good conscience by submitting to being immersed in water in the likeness of Jesus' death and resurrection.

Those in Acts 2:38 were already born again by the Spirit of God, which is why Peter told them what he did in Acts 2:38,39. Consider:

Acts 2:37-39~"Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."

Doug, it is very clear in the context of Acts 2, that Peter understanding the biblical evidence of one born of God, said what he did in Acts 2:38,39 when he witnessed them being pricked in their hearts, understood that God had called them out of darkness into his marvelous light.

Consider: #1~Peter words to them: "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins" For, in this verse means "because of" not, as you and others try to force to means~in order to obtain. Proof? In many scriptures for is used in the sense in which we are giving to the word for....

Mark 1:40-44~"And there came a leper to him, beseeching him, and kneeling down to him, and saying unto him, If thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. And Jesus, moved with compassion, put forth his hand, and touched him, and saith unto him, I will; be thou clean. And as soon as he had spoken, immediately the leprosy departed from him, and he was cleansed. And he straitly charged him, and forthwith sent him away; And saith unto him, See thou say nothing to any man: but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing those things which Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them."

For is used in the sense because of, not in order to obtain.

Consider #2~When we compare these men who were pricked in their hearts, to those Stephen preached to ( Acts 7), who were cut to the heart, we see the difference between those who are called of God and those who are left in their sins.

Consider #3~Truth, is one cohesive whole, what is taught in one place the same truth is found elsewhere, God makes no exceptions. There is one constant flow of one truth on one subject/doctrine all through the scriptures. Those in Acts ten had the Spirit of God before they were baptized into Jesus' faith/religion. Those in Acts 2 did as well, what they did not have was the knowledge of the indwelling Spirit of God ~ the same as those in Acts 19, being only baptized by John's teachings, where the promise of the Spirit was not yet known. The full revelation of this promise came on Pentecost for those that were there and witnessed this event.

I would like to ask you a question before moving on~what do you think it means to be baptized into Jesus Christ per Romans 6, etc.?

 

[Doug Brents]

Greetings Doug,

While I have not read every single post you have posted, yet, I have read enough from your post to know your baptismal regeneration doctrine is false.

The sense you put upon Acts 2:38 is wrong. What comes when one is baptized into Jesus Christ's religion is the knowledge of the indwelling Spirit of God. This understanding, along with other spiritual benefits, is given to those who give to God, an answer of a good conscience by submitting to being immersed in water in the likeness of Jesus' death and resurrection.

Those in Acts 2:38 were already born again by the Spirit of God, which is why Peter told them what he did in Acts 2:38,39. Consider:

Doug, it is very clear in the context of Acts 2, that Peter understanding the biblical evidence of one born of God, said what he did in Acts 2:38,39 when he witnessed them being pricked in their hearts, understood that God had called them out of darkness into his marvelous light.

Consider: #1~Peter words to them: "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins" For, in this verse means "because of" not, as you and others try to force to means~in order to obtain. Proof? In many scriptures for is used in the sense in which we are giving to the word for....

For is used in the sense because of, not in order to obtain.

I have heard this argument before, but it holds no water.
Notice that "repent" and "be baptized" are not divided or separated in any way. Both are included in the same context with regards to "the remission of sins".
Now, look at Acts 3:19: "Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord." There can be no doubt here, that repentance is done "in order to receive", not "because you have received". And since there is no separation between "repent" and "be baptized" in 2:38, "for" in 2:38 must also be "in order to receive", just as it is in 3:19.

Consider #2~When we compare these men who were pricked in their hearts, to those Stephen preached to ( Acts 7), who were cut to the heart, we see the difference between those who are called of God and those who are left in their sins.

First off, the men to whom Stephen preached were not cut to the heart; they were "stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears".
Second, these men did not believe Stephen's message, nor did they repent of their sins, but they further committed sin in murdering Stephen.

Consider #3~Truth, is one cohesive whole, what is taught in one place the same truth is found elsewhere, God makes no exceptions. There is one constant flow of one truth on one subject/doctrine all through the scriptures. Those in Acts ten had the Spirit of God before they were baptized into Jesus' faith/religion. Those in Acts 2 did as well, what they did not have was the knowledge of the indwelling Spirit of God ~ the same as those in Acts 19, being only baptized by John's teachings, where the promise of the Spirit was not yet known. The full revelation of this promise came on Pentecost for those that were there and witnessed this event.

There is just one truth, you are correct, and that one truth is consistent throughout Scripture. The people in Acts 10 did not have their sins forgiven by the Spirit falling on them in miraculous power, nor did the men in Acts 2, or the men in Acts 19. We receive the indwelling of the Spirit during water baptism. The baptism that saves (in which our sins are forgiven) is water baptism, as 1 Pet 3:21 makes clear. The baptism that saves is done by man as Matt 28:19 and Mark 16:16, and Acts 2:38 make clear. The action of the Holy Spirit is what actually removes our sins and unites us with Jesus, and this happens during water baptism (Rom 6:1-4 and Col 2:11-14).

I would like to ask you a question before moving on~what do you think it means to be baptized into Jesus Christ per Romans 6, etc.?

When a person has heard the Word of God (the Gospel) and believed it, they then must do the three things that Scripture says "lead to" receiving salvation (forgiveness of sin, justification, etc.). Those three things are:
To repent (Acts 3:19, Acts 2:38).
To confess Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10). And,
To be baptized (Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, Matt 28:19). To be baptized into Christ is to be publicly immersed in water. During this immersion, the Holy Spirit cuts our sins from us, resurrects our soul from the death sin caused, and unites us with Jesus' Church (Col 2:11-14, Rom 6:1-4). This is the entry point to the Church, a renewed walk with God, justification, and eternal life. If one has not been baptized, then they have not been joined to the Church, their sins have not been washed away, and they are not "saved".

 

[Red Baker]

I have heard this argument before, but it holds no water.

You have what before? That water baptism gives a person knowledge of the indwelling Spirit of God? A promise that Jesus said would be given after he was glorified. Every child of God from Abel onward have been created after the image of Jesus Christ, or, God's image restored back to them, (which is one and the same) in the creation of the new man within them~the image which they lost through Adam's fall.
Water baptism is not the means of receiving the indwelling Spirit of God~for it is freely given by God's grace through the power of the new birth, by the same power that raised Jesus from the death.

Notice that "repent" and "be baptized" are not divided or separated in any way. Both are included in the same context with regards to "the remission of sins".

You can also add believing to your list of thing to do! But, none of them are the legal means of having our sins forgiven, that alone is through the obedience of one person....... Jesus Christ's life, death and resurrection. It cannot be by both and be scripturally true.

Romans 5:9-11~"Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement."

The word of God over and over again tells us that we are saved from sin and condemnation by his blood, his death, his life, etc. etc. It cannot be by Christ and by what we do~that's adding to the gospel of Christ and allowing man to glory in what he has done, when the scriptures clearly said that we were without strength, that is.... spiritual strength~Romans 5:6,8, etc. The truth of the gospel is:

Romans 5:19~"For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

Yet you are saying that we must believe, repent and be baptized, etc.~before our sins are legally forgiven. That Doug is another gospel which falls under God's curse~per Galatians one.

Repenting and being baptized into Jesus' religion, teachings, faith, is the means of believers having a true knowledge of many spiritual blessings, which are freely provided for us through the obedience of Jesus Christ........... that we would wholeheartedly agree with.

Now, look at Acts 3:19: "Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord." There can be no doubt here, that repentance is done "in order to receive", not "because you have received". And since there is no separation between "repent" and "be baptized" in 2:38, "for" in 2:38 must also be "in order to receive", just as it is in 3:19.

Doug, yanking scriptures out of their context could be dangerous, leaving men like you exposed to those who understand the scriptures, for them to expose your bible ignorance. No pun intended.

Let us go back a few verses~to get the whole of what Peter is saying.

Acts 3:16-19~"And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all. And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers. But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;"

Peter, a man of God, understanding that our faith which is truly given on the behalf of Jesus Christ, just as it was given to the man that was lamed from his mother's womb, made him whole, told those who heard him to repent and be (not born again) but converted for their ignorance! And when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord, they would among those who sins have been blotted out.

Doug any faith any man has was secured by the faith of Jesus Christ for those to whom it was given. "yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all." Have you never read:

Galatians 2:20,21~"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."

Same thing Peter said in Acts 3!

First off, the men to whom Stephen preached were not cut to the heart; they were "stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears".
Second, these men did not believe Stephen's message, nor did they repent of their sins, but they further committed sin in murdering Stephen.

What in the world you talking about, you make no sense Doug. Well, Hello! Exactly what I'm saying. Doug, the comparison between the two is what I desire for you to see, to show you WHY Peter said what he did in Acts 2:38,39. The ones In Acts 2:37 showed a work of grace already performed in their hearts, the others in Acts 7 did not. The difference between the two groups was the difference between regeneration and those still in their sins~and that's why Peter spoke the words that are recorded for our learning in Acts 2:38! When we see folks asking what shall they do, then we tell them exactly what Peter did in Acts 2:38. Repent of your past life, and be baptized into the faith, religion, and teachings of Jesus Christ, and ye shall receive many spiritual blessings that shall be made known to you as you grow in grace and knowledge of the truth~The Spirit of God shall be with you to empower you to live a victorious life of faith.

Later I'll finish.

 

[Doug Brents]

You have what before? That water baptism gives a person knowledge of the indwelling Spirit of God?

No, the idea that "for" in Acts 2:38 means "because we have received" instead of "in order to receive". The idea that "water baptism gives a person knowledge of the indwelling Spirit of God" is so patently absurd at to be beneath notice or comment. That concept is found nowhere in Scripture.

A promise that Jesus said would be given after he was glorified. Every child of God from Abel onward have been created after the image of Jesus Christ, or, God's image restored back to them, (which is one and the same) in the creation of the new man within them~the image which they lost through Adam's fall.
Water baptism is not the means of receiving the indwelling Spirit of God~for it is freely given by God's grace through the power of the new birth, by the same power that raised Jesus from the death.

The new birth is gained during baptism (Col 2:11-14, Rom 6:1-7), and as a result we also receive the indwelling.

You can also add believing to your list of thing to do! But, none of them are the legal means of having our sins forgiven, that alone is through the obedience of one person....... Jesus Christ's life, death and resurrection. It cannot be by both and be scripturally true.

Through Jesus' obedience, salvation was made possible. But each individual does not receive the benefit of His obedience until we obey the Gospel through belief of it and in Christ, repentance from sin, confession of Jesus as Lord, and baptism.

The word of God over and over again tells us that we are saved from sin and condemnation by his blood, his death, his life, etc. etc. It cannot be by Christ and by what we do~that's adding to the gospel of Christ and allowing man to glory in what he has done, when the scriptures clearly said that we were without strength, that is.... spiritual strength~Romans 5:6,8, etc. The truth of the gospel is:

Yet you are saying that we must believe, repent and be baptized, etc.~before our sins are legally forgiven. That Doug is another gospel which falls under God's curse~per Galatians one.

Not in the least. Repentance does not "earn" salvation, but without it we will not be forgiven (Acts 3:19). Confession of Jesus as Lord does not merit salvation, but without it Jesus will not claim us before the Father (Matt 10:32). Baptism does not literally wash away sin as dirt from the body, but without it we will not enter the Kingdom of God (the Church)(John 3:5).

Repenting and being baptized into Jesus' religion, teachings, faith, is the means of believers having a true knowledge of many spiritual blessings, which are freely provided for us through the obedience of Jesus Christ........... that we would wholeheartedly agree with.

Doug, yanking scriptures out of their context could be dangerous, leaving men like you exposed to those who understand the scriptures, for them to expose your bible ignorance. No pun intended.

Let us go back a few verses~to get the whole of what Peter is saying.

Peter, a man of God, understanding that our faith which is truly given on the behalf of Jesus Christ, just as it was given to the man that was lamed from his mother's womb, made him whole, told those who heard him to repent and be (not born again) but converted for their ignorance! And when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord, they would among those who sins have been blotted out.

The NASB says, "Repent and return". Be converted/return from what and to what? From the Law to Christ? Yes. From death to life? Yes. From ignorance and bondage to knowledge and freedom? Yes. Return to Christ, and repent of sin in general, but also of having killed the Messiah. And the "times of refreshing" are not future, but are received now as a result of receiving Christ as Lord.

Doug any faith any man has was secured by the faith of Jesus Christ for those to whom it was given. "yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all." Have you never read:

Same thing Peter said in Acts 3!

Christ does indeed live in those who have been reborn, but we are not discussing whether or not He does, but how and when He comes into residence. Scripture says that event takes place when we are baptized into Christ. Not when we just believe. Not when we just repent. Not when we just say a prayer. Not when we .... We are saved, the Holy Spirit comes into residence in our hearts, and we are reborn in Christ when we are baptized into Christ.

What in the world you talking about, you make no sense Doug. Well, Hello! Exactly what I'm saying. Doug, the comparison between the two is what I desire for you to see, to show you WHY Peter said what he did in Acts 2:38,39. The ones In Acts 2:37 showed a work of grace already performed in their hearts, the others in Acts 7 did not.

Red, do you believe that ALL of Scripture is equal? Are there any passages of Scripture, chapters, books, or writers that were more inspired than others? I do not believe that to be the case. I believe that ALL Scripture is equally right and true. This means that when John 3:16 says 'those who believe will be saved', but Rom 10:9-10 says 'those who believe and confess will be saved', I conclude that both must be the case and John just didn't feel the need to add confession to his statement. Similarly, when Luke in Acts 3 says repent in order to be forgiven, but back in Acts 2 he mentioned both repentance and baptism (because they had already believed), I believe that both are equally essential but Luke didn't see the need to repeat his reference to baptism in Acts 3. If you exclude any of these actions, then you make some passage of Scripture out to be unnecessary, or in error, etc. No Scripture is ever unnecessary, or in error and so we must conclude that all of these things are necessary.

The men in Acts 7 did not believe, but the ones in Acts 2 did. Salvation requires belief first, so clearly the men in Acts 7 were not saved. But it also requires baptism, and that is what followed belief for the men in Acts 2.

The difference between the two groups was the difference between regeneration and those still in their sins~and that's why Peter spoke the words that are recorded for our learning in Acts 2:38! When we see folks asking what shall they do, then we tell them exactly what Peter did in Acts 2:38. Repent of your past life, and be baptized into the faith, religion, and teachings of Jesus Christ, and ye shall receive many spiritual blessings that shall be made known to you as you grow in grace and knowledge of the truth~The Spirit of God shall be with you to empower you to live a victorious life of faith.

And this new life begins, not when they believed, but when they are baptized (Col 2:11-14, Rom 6:1-7). Without the washing of water by the Word (Eph 5:25-27) we are not made spotless and without blemish, nor do we enter the Kingdom of God (John 3:5).

 

[TomL]

I have heard this argument before, but it holds no water.
Notice that "repent" and "be baptized" are not divided or separated in any way. Both are included in the same context with regards to "the remission of sins".
Now, look at Acts 3:19: "Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord." There can be no doubt here, that repentance is done "in order to receive", not "because you have received". And since there is no separation between "repent" and "be baptized" in 2:38, "for" in 2:38 must also be "in order to receive", just as it is in 3:19.

First off, the men to whom Stephen preached were not cut to the heart; they were "stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears".
Second, these men did not believe Stephen's message, nor did they repent of their sins, but they further committed sin in murdering Stephen.

There is just one truth, you are correct, and that one truth is consistent throughout Scripture. The people in Acts 10 did not have their sins forgiven by the Spirit falling on them in miraculous power, nor did the men in Acts 2, or the men in Acts 19. We receive the indwelling of the Spirit during water baptism. The baptism that saves (in which our sins are forgiven) is water baptism, as 1 Pet 3:21 makes clear. The baptism that saves is done by man as Matt 28:19 and Mark 16:16, and Acts 2:38 make clear. The action of the Holy Spirit is what actually removes our sins and unites us with Jesus, and this happens during water baptism (Rom 6:1-4 and Col 2:11-14).

When a person has heard the Word of God (the Gospel) and believed it, they then must do the three things that Scripture says "lead to" receiving salvation (forgiveness of sin, justification, etc.). Those three things are:
To repent (Acts 3:19, Acts 2:38).
To confess Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10). And,
To be baptized (Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, Matt 28:19). To be baptized into Christ is to be publicly immersed in water. During this immersion, the Holy Spirit cuts our sins from us, resurrects our soul from the death sin caused, and unites us with Jesus' Church (Col 2:11-14, Rom 6:1-4). This is the entry point to the Church, a renewed walk with God, justification, and eternal life. If one has not been baptized, then they have not been joined to the Church, their sins have not been washed away, and they are not "saved".

Baptism is the introduction of one thing to another that the one may receive the influence of the other

Water will get you wet and nothing else.

It does not regenerate.

The spirit baptizing a man will recreate Christ in the man

Without this indwelling Spirit, you do not belong to Christ

Romans 8:9 (ESV) — 9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

It is a simple fact men have been baptized en the spirit before and/or after water baptism

 

[Red Baker]

There is just one truth, you are correct, and that one truth is consistent throughout Scripture. The people in Acts 10 did not have their sins forgiven by the Spirit falling on them in miraculous power, nor did the men in Acts 2, or the men in Acts 19. We receive the indwelling of the Spirit during water baptism.

Doug, these words of yours are full of errors, and for me to fully expose them each, would take more posts than I desire to do with you, yet I will say a few words~few for me, since I admit, I'm a little long winded, because I labor to make clear what the scriptures teach and do not teach, on the subject under consideration, mainly for any young believer that may be following what is posted, and for the few, who truly desire to test their doctrine with the word of God.

One truth is consistent throughout Scripture~You said:

The people in Acts 10 did not have their sins forgiven by the Spirit falling on them in miraculous power

Doug, no they did not~Cornelius was regenerated before Peter ever arrived! Which is a truth that is consistent throughout the word of God from Genesis to Revelation. Consider Cornelius' life before he ever met Peter:

Cornelius was accepted with God, born again by the Spirit of God, and in possession of eternal life long before he heard of Peter, for his righteous actions and God’s declarations about him prove this easy conclusion. No unregenerate man can or will do the things that Cornelius did fervently and zealously, which things were accepted by God in heaven!

Cornelius had been elected by God the Father before the world began (2nd Tim 1:9); the Son of God had obeyed and died for him some years earlier (Hebrews 10:10-14); and the Spirit had applied the work in the vital act of regeneration during his life (Titus 3:5).

God had already made an incredible change in his life by giving him a heart that separated him from other Italians. The life-giving voice of the Lord Jesus Christ had called for him to live spiritually, and he lived as certainly as Lazarus came forth from the tomb. He only needed Peter to loose him from some Roman and Jewish burial clothes!

Peter brought the gospel to save Cornelius from despair over his sins (Luke 7:36-50; Rom 7:24-25), from Jewish ignorance of salvation (Rom 10:1-5), from Roman idolatry and superstition (Ist Thess 1:9-10), from ignorance about life and immortality (2nd Tim 1:9-10), and from confusion about the resurrection (Ist Cor 15:2). He needed to learn the way of God more perfectly (Acts 18:24-28), and how to prove his election (2nd Pet 1:5-11), including that repentance, baptism, etc. (Acts 2:37-47).

It is absurd to make Cornelius a lost sinner that pleased God by works of the flesh! It is absurd to believe he had to make some silly decision for Jesus in order to be justified and born again. He was already serving the Lord far beyond a fleshly decision. He needed Peter to direct his new man in the way of righteousness, not help him get born again.

The word of God is plain. Except a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God (John 3:3). The kingdom of God cannot be shown to a man not born again, because he cannot and will not see it. If a man believes on Jesus, he is already born again (Ist John 5:1). If he loves the brethren, he is already born again (Ist John 4:7). If he does righteousness, he is already born again (Ist John 2:29). These are evidences of eternal life!

Men do not want a sovereign God, so they corrupt the doctrine of salvation to make their own freewill their saviour. They want to be in charge. Because Cornelius is an extensive salvation story, they corrupt it as well. They make Peter and Cornelius cooperating saviours. We believe Jesus Christ saved Cornelius by Himself … before he met Peter! More proof? I have it.