Baptism "en" the Holy Ghost

[Fred]

Nope. it simply means "To be fully motivated by". An "Enduement" is a
"Clothing with", not an infilling/indwelling. Luke 24:49.

Wrong.

When the Lord Jesus spoke of them being clothed in Luke 24:49 it was in reference to what took place in Acts 2:4 - being filled with the Holy Spirit.

Luke 24:49
“And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”

Acts 1:4-5
(4) Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,” He said, “you heard of from Me;
(5) for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”


What happened "not many days from now" in Jerusalem (Acts 1:5)?

Acts 2:4
And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit

 

[TomL]

Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?

Galatians 3:2-3
(2) This only would I learn of you, Receive ye the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by the hearing of faith?
(3) Are ye so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit are ye now made perfect by the flesh?


Receiving the Holy Spirit is the beginning of the Christian life.

Exactly one must believe to receive the Spirit

that is how the Jews knew the gentiles had faith

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Exactly one must believe to receive the Spirit

that is how the Jews knew the gentiles had faith

Although in The OLD TESTAMENT, the Holy Spirit Filled (motivated/empowered any number of people who had not been cleansed of their sin (since that couldn't happen yet). The Holy Spirit, until John 20:22 indwelled NOBODY, except Jesus after John's Baptism.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Wrong.

Opinion noted. Ignored.

 

[Fred]

Opinion noted. Ignored.

.
You couldn't refute the evidence.
Your lame response noted.

 

[TomL]

Although in The OLD TESTAMENT, the Holy Spirit Filled (motivated/empowered any number of people who had not been cleansed of their sin (since that couldn't happen yet). The Holy Spirit, until John 20:22 indwelled NOBODY, except Jesus after John's Baptism.

There was a change in function of the Spirit after Christ's resurrection.

John 7:38–39 (ESV) — 38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

There was a change in function of the Spirit after Christ's resurrection.

John 7:38–39 (ESV) — 38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

No "change", except that the Holy Spirit who'd ALWAYS "Endued people with POWER" (as in Acts 2:4), could now also INDWELL THEM (John 20:22), now that they had been cleansed of their SIN.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

.
You couldn't refute the evidence.
Your lame response noted.

There was nothing to "Refute", except your "theological opinion", which you're completely welcome to (noses).

 

[TomL]

No "change", except that the Holy Spirit who'd ALWAYS "Endued people with POWER" (as in Acts 2:4), could now also INDWELL THEM (John 20:22), now that they had been cleansed of their SIN.

That is quite a change

 

[Fred]

There was nothing to "Refute",

Yeah, keeping telling yourself that.

Thanks for making this easy for me.

 

[TomL]

No "change", except that the Holy Spirit who'd ALWAYS "Endued people with POWER" (as in Acts 2:4), could now also INDWELL THEM (John 20:22), now that they had been cleansed of their SIN.

Regeneration and life accrue from the indwelling Spirit that is quite a change

 

[Doug Brents]

Actually the reception does.

How is it the Jews knew the gentiles had faith, repentance unto life, and had their hearts purified and were candidates for water baptism

Acts 10:45–47 (ESV) — 45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. 46 For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, 47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

Acts 11:15–18 (ESV) — 15 As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them just as on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 If then God gave the same gift to them as he gave to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God’s way?” 18 When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, “Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.”

Acts 15:6–9 (ESV) — 6 The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter. 7 And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, 9 and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith.

where do you read those things are witnessed by a speaking in tongues?

How does reception of a lesser gift (your view) show worthiness to receive a greater gift?

The Jews were a very, very insular group. And most of the Jews who accepted Jesus, even Peter at first, believed that the Jews were the only ones who would be accepted by God into the Church. So when God sent Peter to the Gentiles to bring them salvation, he and the other Jews with him needed a lot of convincing that the Gentiles were acceptable. That is why the Spirit came on them in power before they were added to the Church. That is why Peter asked, "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?" He was asking the other Jews if they were convinced by God's demonstration that the Gentiles were to be accepted into the Church. And later the same question came up back in Jerusalem, and Peter answered the same way, "Therefore, if God gave them the same gift as He also gave to us after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could [l]stand in God’s way?"

 

[Doug Brents]

1. If a person has been given the Holy Spirit, he/she dwells in God.
1 John 4:13
Hereby know we that we dwell in Him, and He in us, because He hath given us of His Spirit.

2. Cornelius and the other Gentiles with him were given the Holy Spirit before their water baptism.
Acts 11:16-17 (cf. Acts 15:8)
(16) Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that He said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.
(17) Forasmuch then as God gave them the same gift as He did unto us, who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ; who was I that I could withstand God?

3. Therefore, Cornelius and the other Gentiles with him dwelt in God before their water baptism.

1 John 4:13 is speaking of the indwelling, and yes, when we have the indwelling we are in Christ and He is in us.
But Acts 11:16-17 is not speaking of the indwelling. It is speaking of the same receiving of the Spirit (in power) as the Apostles received on Pentecost in Acts 2:4. That was not the indwelling (they already had that from John 20:22).

It does in the New Covenant.
The examples you gave from the Old Testament in post 172 don't apply because that is not the same covenant.

Same Spirit. Same gifts. Same power. Covenant is irrelevant. The Holy Spirit did not indwell any of the OT heroes of the faith, but He did empower them. The same function is seen in Cornelius.

 

[Fred]

1 John 4:13 is speaking of the indwelling, and yes, when we have the indwelling we are in Christ and He is in us.
But Acts 11:16-17 is not speaking of the indwelling.

Yes, it is.
The same Greek word for "given" is used in reference to the Holy Spirit in both texts.
What applies to one does so to the other.

Romans 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

In addition to 1 John 4:13, the same Greek word for "given" in reference to the Holy Spirit is used for the Gentiles in Acts 11:17. Notice also the Holy Spirit was "poured" on these Gentiles as well (Acts 10:45).

That was not the indwelling (they already had that from John 20:22).

Thomas wasn't there.



I asked you this in post 147 and post 177, but you keep dodging it. This is now the third time asking you.
Since these Gentiles were filled with the Holy Spirit (Acts 11:17; cf. Acts 2:4) were they worshiping in the Spirit (Acts 10:46)?

 

[Fred]

Covenant is irrelevant.

The above is where you err.

Covenant is vital.

 

[TomL]

The Jews were a very, very insular group. And most of the Jews who accepted Jesus, even Peter at first, believed that the Jews were the only ones who would be accepted by God into the Church. So when God sent Peter to the Gentiles to bring them salvation, he and the other Jews with him needed a lot of convincing that the Gentiles were acceptable. That is why the Spirit came on them in power before they were added to the Church. That is why Peter asked, "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?" He was asking the other Jews if they were convinced by God's demonstration that the Gentiles were to be accepted into the Church. And later the same question came up back in Jerusalem, and Peter answered the same way, "Therefore, if God gave them the same gift as He also gave to us after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could [l]stand in God’s way?"

And the Spirit was in fact received before water baptism for the gentiles and the Samaritans received water baptism without the reception of the spirit

 

[Doug Brents]

Yes, it is.
The same Greek word for "given" is used in reference to the Holy Spirit in both texts.
What applies to one does so to the other.

Romans 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

In addition to 1 John 4:13, the same Greek word for "given" in reference to the Holy Spirit is used for the Gentiles in Acts 11:17. Notice also the Holy Spirit was "poured" on these Gentiles as well (Acts 10:45).

Thomas wasn't there.

We have already covered all of this. The fact that you cannot or will not accept the truth is not a good reason to continue the same old arguments without giving additional input of value. "yes he is", "no he isn't", "yes he is", is not the way to go about having an adult discussion.

I asked you this in post 147 and post 177, but you keep dodging it. This is now the third time asking you.
Since these Gentiles were filled with the Holy Spirit (Acts 11:17; cf. Acts 2:4) were they worshiping in the Spirit (Acts 10:46)?

The Gentiles in Acts 10 were given the gift of tongues and praise (exalting God) by the Holy Spirit. These are gifts that the Holy Spirit can give, but do not in any way imply that they had the indwelling at that time. So yes, I have ignored your question because you think you have a "gotcha" in there. But there are many examples of people who have praised God without the indwelling of the Spirit.

 

[Doug Brents]

The above is where you err.

Covenant is vital.

Covenant is vital, but which covenant we are under in terms of the gifts of the Spirit (other than the indwelling which is only in the New Covenant) is irrelevant.

 

[Doug Brents]

And the Spirit was in fact received before water baptism for the gentiles and the Samaritans received water baptism without the reception of the spirit

The miraculous works of the Spirit were received before water baptism for the Gentiles. But the indwelling was received when they were baptized in water.
The Samaritans received water baptism without receiving miraculous works of the Spirit. But they did receive the indwelling when they were baptized.

 

[Fred]

We have already covered all of this. The fact that you cannot or will not accept the truth is not a good reason to continue the same old arguments without giving additional input of value. "yes he is", "no he isn't", "yes he is", is not the way to go about having an adult discussion.

One day you may stop playing make believe with how the words of the Bible are properly defined.

The Gentiles in Acts 10 were given the gift of tongues and praise (exalting God) by the Holy Spirit. These are gifts that the Holy Spirit can give, but do not in any way imply that they had the indwelling at that time. So yes, I have ignored your question because you think you have a "gotcha" in there. But there are many examples of people who have praised God without the indwelling of the Spirit.

Not in the New Covenant.