BAD arguments against Calvinism that need to STOP!

[TibiasDad]

That is not true love

No parent that operates in love will permit their child (no matter their age) to inject/smoke/drink fentanyl or other life destroying drugs into their bodies.

Can adult parents keep adult children to cease from doing anything? Do not thousands of children disobey or decide counter to their parents’ wishes?
Were these parents unloving? Does our counter actions mean that God doesn’t love us? Does it mean that God is incapable of intervening to stop us and protect us from wrong?

No person, who acts and lives in love, will allow an another person to commit suicide and/or murder, when they have the ability/opportunity to intervene.

Not all sins are “suicide” types of sin. God certainly didn’t stop Adam; was God not acting in love? Did God not have the opportunity to intervene?

JESUS Says = "Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends."

Yep, love is all about sacrificing oneself, and Jesus told Jerusalem (and us by extension) that he loves us and wants to gather us like a hen under his wings, “but you are not willing”!

Love allows for dissent, disagreement and divergence; it doesn’t desire it but neither is it displaced by it.


Doug

 

[DavidTree]

Can adult parents keep adult children to cease from doing anything? Do not thousands of children disobey or decide counter to their parents’ wishes?
Were these parents unloving? Does our counter actions mean that God doesn’t love us? Does it mean that God is incapable of intervening to stop us and protect us from wrong?


Not all sins are “suicide” types of sin. God certainly didn’t stop Adam; was God not acting in love? Did God not have the opportunity to intervene?



Yep, love is all about sacrificing oneself, and Jesus told Jerusalem (and us by extension) that he loves us and wants to gather us like a hen under his wings, “but you are not willing”!

Love allows for dissent, disagreement and divergence; it doesn’t desire it but neither is it displaced by it.


Doug

Keep it SIMPLE

i specifically stated that the act of danger that can cause serious harm and/or death is in the presence of the watching parent/person

No one - REPEAT - No one knows why God allows horrific evil upon children who are being systematically raped, mutilated and murdered.

This will ONLY be resolved AFTER we leave this earth and in the Presence of God

 

[TibiasDad]

Keep it SIMPLE

i specifically stated that the act of danger that can cause serious harm and/or death is in the presence of the watching parent/person

No one - REPEAT - No one knows why God allows horrific evil upon children who are being systematically raped, mutilated and murdered.

This will ONLY be resolved AFTER we leave this earth and in the Presence of God

It is not a simple issue: it is at the heart of the human question of is there such a thing as a loving God!

Either God allows evil or he causes evil or there is no God who is love.

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

Keep it SIMPLE

i specifically stated that the act of danger that can cause serious harm and/or death is in the presence of the watching parent/person

No one - REPEAT - No one knows why God allows horrific evil upon children who are being systematically raped, mutilated and murdered.

This will ONLY be resolved AFTER we leave this earth and in the Presence of God

Again, was not God present and able to prevent the events of the Garden?

Doug

 

[DavidTree]

Again, was not God present and able to prevent the events of the Garden?

Doug

Brother Doug,
If you carefully review my posts you will SEE:
a.) The decision to save someone's life is simple = in the examples i specified = so simple you do not even need to think = just DO
b.) The points you expressed are NOT simple and i AGREE with you
c.) Therefore we will only come to understand AFTER we leave this earth and are in the presence of God
d.) Even then, God may or may not explain the 'Why(s)'

Conclusion = Solomon tried to contemplate and understand but he could not = Ecclessiates
JESUS never tells us the 'Why' either but HE did say this:
When you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed. These things must happen, but the end is still to come.

In the Foreknowledge of God, some very bad things are occurring, have been since the beginning.
WHY???
We do not know and we are not told!!!

Yet, we can surmise when we have consumed all of Scripture and quietly contemplate before the LORD

SHALOM

 

[Presby02]

Is God love? Did 6,000,000 Jews die? If both are true, there must be a corollary; which of these do you deny?

Love allows one to act to their own detriment and to the detriment of others, for there is no freedom outside of love. Love always trusts, but trust can be violated. Love always seeks, but seeking can be rejected!

Doug

God is love and Gos ia also just. That does not really answer my question. Was it Gods love that allowed 6 million Jews to be slaughtered?

 

[Presby02]

so do we blame God or do we blame Hitler

Answer my question and I will address yours.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Brother Doug,
If you carefully review my posts you will SEE:
a.) The decision to save someone's life is simple = in the examples i specified = so simple you do not even need to think = just DO
b.) The points you expressed are NOT simple and i AGREE with you
c.) Therefore we will only come to understand AFTER we leave this earth and are in the presence of God
d.) Even then, God may or may not explain the 'Why(s)'

Conclusion = Solomon tried to contemplate and understand but he could not = Ecclessiates
JESUS never tells us the 'Why' either but HE did say this:
When you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed. These things must happen, but the end is still to come.

In the Foreknowledge of God, some very bad things are occurring, have been since the beginning.
WHY???
We do not know and we are not told!!!

Yet, we can surmise when we have consumed all of Scripture and quietly contemplate before the LORD

SHALOM

again

did God stop Adam from allowing Eve to die and himself to die committing spiritual suicide and causing the fall of mankind.

I do not think you are understanding what Tobias is saying

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

God is love and Gos ia also just. That does not really answer my question. Was it Gods love that allowed 6 million Jews to be slaughtered?

Is God a slave master who takes our free will.

or is God a God of love, who gives his creation what they need..

Is God to blame for these jews being slaughtered or is Hitler?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Answer my question and I will address yours.

I did.

Do we blame God or do we blame Hitler?

Are you saying God is not a God of love?

I can not get into Gods head to see why he allowed Hitler to do what he did and not try to stop him. Can you?

 

[TibiasDad]

God is love and Gos ia also just

Precisely, which is why God’s love necessarily allows freedom to do otherwise than what God wants. He doesn’t cease to love us when we rebel against him, that is when his love shines brightest.

His justice shines in that he 1) clearly warns and establishes the consequences of disobedience, and 2) he must necessarily enforce those standards exactly.

His mercy redefines the equation by not enacting a “one and done rule”, and instead extends grace to repent and return to him. This is love, that he first loved us and gave himself up for us in spite of our divergent ways.

To ultimately reject mercy is the highest form of divergence and Justice is all that remains to be dispensed.

But you question also begs the question of itself: Does the slaughter of 6,000,000 Jews mean God did not love them? It would seem to me, given your Reformed perspective, that God’s predetermined will for all of us individually necessarily means that God did not love these souls and determined their fates to be exactly what they got. Is that a God of love too?

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

The decision to save someone's life is simple = in the examples i specified = so simple you do not even need to think = just DO

Then why are all people not saved by God?

Doug

 

[Presby02]

Precisely, which is why God’s love necessarily allows freedom to do otherwise than what God wants. He doesn’t cease to love us when we rebel against him, that is when his love shines brightest.

His justice shines in that he 1) clearly warns and establishes the consequences of disobedience, and 2) he must necessarily enforce those standards exactly.

His mercy redefines the equation by not enacting a “one and done rule”, and instead extends grace to repent and return to him. This is love, that he first loved us and gave himself up for us in spite of our divergent ways.

To ultimately reject mercy is the highest form of divergence and Justice is all that remains to be dispensed.

But you question also begs the question of itself: Does the slaughter of 6,000,000 Jews mean God did not love them? It would seem to me, given your Reformed perspective, that God’s predetermined will for all of us individually necessarily means that God did not love these souls and determined their fates to be exactly what they got. Is that a God of love too?

Doug

Doug, your mot addressing my question. Was it out of Gods love He allowed the slaughter of 6 million Jews?

The Reformed perspective is God had a purpose in it. God had a purpose in planning and determining the murder of His own Son. Yet He loved His Son but ultimately His purpose is served. Even from your perspective, God could have stopped the murder of 6 million people yet chose not too. Why? In your estimation was that a loving thing to do? Would you stand by and watched your loved ones be slaughtered?

 

[Presby02]

I did.

Do we blame God or do we blame Hitler?

Are you saying God is not a God of love?

I can not get into Gods head to see why he allowed Hitler to do what he did and not try to stop him. Can you?

LOL, you don't answer a question with a question.

Nope

Would you allow the slaughter of your loved ones if you could stop it?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

LOL, you don't answer a question with a question.

Nope

Would you allow the slaughter of your loved ones if you could stop it?

what kind of world would we live in if God stopped all evil and had us all live straight and narrow. we all lived in peace.

who would seek God? What reason would we seek God.

You do nto want to answer my question because even you understand, if you say God killed them, then you understand what kind of evil you make God to be.

Hitler. under the control of satan Killed these jews.

God just did not prevent it. much like he did not stop the bullet who hit Charlie Kirk in the neck taking his life.

 

[Presby02]

what kind of world would we live in if God stopped all evil and had us all live straight and narrow. we all lived in peace.

who would seek God? What reason would we seek God.

You do nto want to answer my question because even you understand, if you say God killed them, then you understand what kind of evil you make God to be.

Hitler. under the control of satan Killed these jews.

God just did not prevent it. much like he did not stop the bullet who hit Charlie Kirk in the neck taking his life.

So evil is a necessary part of creation, part of Gods plan the correct?

But He loved Him. Yet He determined it to occur to serve His purposes. Just as He planned and determined the death of His own Son. Acts 4

 

[civic]

So evil is a necessary part of creation, part of Gods plan the correct?

But He loved Him. Yet He determined it to occur to serve His purposes. Just as He planned and determined the death of His own Son. Acts 4

No as we read below. And the slaughtering of the Jews that abominable evil is in the same category.

Jeremiah 7:31
They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded—nor did it enter my mind—that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin.

Jeremiah 19:5
They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal—something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.

Jeremiah 32:35
They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded—nor did it enter my mind—that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin.

 

[Presby02]

No as we read below. And the slaughtering of the Jews that abominable evil is in the same category.

Jeremiah 7:31
They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded—nor did it enter my mind—that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin.

Jeremiah 19:5
They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal—something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.

Jeremiah 32:35
They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded—nor did it enter my mind—that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin.

Still could have stopped despite your Open Theism.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

So evil is a necessary part of creation, part of Gods plan the correct?

Nope. God did not wish that anyone did anythign evil. He gave us everythign we needed and asked us to trust him

But he gave us free will.. so in doing so. it left the possibility of evil.. which sadly. with adam, we fell.

But He loved Him. Yet He determined it to occur to serve His purposes. Just as He planned and determined the death of His own Son. Acts 4

No.. He did not determine it to occur what kind of God do you serve??

Knowing something will happen, and doing something to counteract it is not the same of forcing evil. to he can make himself look good.

 

[Presby02]

Nope. God did not wish that anyone did anythign evil. He gave us everythign we needed and asked us to trust him

But he gave us free will.. so in doing so. it left the possibility of evil.. which sadly. with adam, we fell.

No.. He did not determine it to occur what kind of God do you serve??

Knowing something will happen, and doing something to counteract it is not the same of forcing evil. to he can make himself look good.

Yet He created a world purposely knowing evil would occur. Strange

No one said He forces anything