Augustine's unbiblical doctrine of Amillennialism

[SteveB]

@SteveB says: "And it's obvious that you see my existence as proof that it's not true, so the only thing you have remaining is that me and my kind must be frauds."
Never say this my Brother.
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I'd like not to even think it. But the words arranged in the manner you chose to post raise the idea, making it an unmistakable thought.
So, while you may not have seen the obvious, I did.
I.e., it sounded good in your mind as you were writing it.
But when i saw it, the statement i posted was the obvious one.

We are the 'us' in 'MusT'

if this we you speak of is true, why did you make an us vs them claim?

The only 'fraud' that we commit is when we add to God's words what HE never said, or, we ignore/subtract from HIS words.

and what happens when the people who see what i see DIDN'T subtract or add to God's Word?
what happens when we actually saw the obvious?

Peace and Blessing to you @SteveB

Thank you.

LOOK at the word 'MUST'

Messiah
Urgent
Salvation
Trust

Ok. I'm not one much for acronyms, but nice.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Do you have anything more to substantiate your belief that it's not actually the Holy Spirit who no longer restrains, because he removes the bride of Christ, whom he sealed?

The Holy Spirit is not a "he". The Greek word is neuter. The Hebrew word is feminine. Michael is a "he".

 

[DavidTree]

I'd like not to even think it. But the words arranged in the manner you chose to post raise the idea, making it an unmistakable thought.
So, while you may not have seen the obvious, I did.
I.e., it sounded good in your mind as you were writing it.
But when i saw it, the statement i posted was the obvious one.

if this we you speak of is true, why did you make an us vs them claim?


and what happens when the people who see what i see DIDN'T subtract or add to God's Word?
what happens when we actually saw the obvious?

Thank you.


Ok. I'm not one much for acronyms, but nice.

SIMPLE Grade School Math & English my Brother

the LORD says: "Immediately AFTER the Tribulation.........the Son comes on the Clouds" = SEE Acts chapter1

When anyone says "pre-trib" rapture we subtract from God's words.

 

[SteveB]

The Holy Spirit is not a "he". The Greek word is neuter. The Hebrew word is feminine. Michael is a "he".

Wow.
The only problem with this is that you have now claimed God is not a He.
The Holy Spirit is... HE is defined as He in numerous places throughout scripture.


To simplify my use of time,

Is the Holy Spirit a “He,” “She,” or “It,” male, female, or neuter? | GotQuestions.org

Is the Holy Spirit a “He,” “She,” or “It,” male, female, or neuter? Does the Holy Spirit have a gender?

www.gotquestions.org

Who is the Holy Spirit? | GotQuestions.org

Who is the Holy Spirit? Is the Holy Spirit God? Is the Holy Spirit the Third Person of the Trinity?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Wow.
The only problem with this is that you have now claimed God is not a He.
The Holy Spirit is... HE is defined as He in numerous places throughout scripture.


To simplify my use of time,

Is the Holy Spirit a “He,” “She,” or “It,” male, female, or neuter? | GotQuestions.org

Is the Holy Spirit a “He,” “She,” or “It,” male, female, or neuter? Does the Holy Spirit have a gender?

www.gotquestions.org

Who is the Holy Spirit? | GotQuestions.org

Who is the Holy Spirit? Is the Holy Spirit God? Is the Holy Spirit the Third Person of the Trinity?

www.gotquestions.org

Show me any scripture outside of 2 Thessalonians where the Holy Spirit is referred to as "he".

 

[SteveB]

SIMPLE Grade School Math & English my Brother

Indeed.
I encourage you to think about this when you post.

the LORD says: "Immediately AFTER the Tribulation.........the Son comes on the Clouds" = SEE Acts chapter1

Still talking about the second coming.
The harpadzo is not the second coming.

When anyone says "pre-trib" rapture we subtract from God's words.

Nope.
You're talking second coming and conflating it with the harpadzo.

The harpadzo, Jesus isn't coming to the earth. He comes to the earth at the second coming.

At the harpadzo, we meet Him in the air.

At the second coming, we come to the earth with Him.

Two distinctly different events.

Do you think that the bride of the wedding should be at her wedding or show up afterwards?

Read Revelation 19 and tell me... is there a time distinction for the wedding and the second coming?

Seems to me that the wedding is before the second coming.

 

[SteveB]

Show me any scripture outside of 2 Thessalonians where the Holy Spirit is referred to as "he".

I provided you with 2 articles. There are numerous passage links contained in them both.
If you're smart enough to argue, then you're smart enough to read, and follow the instructions given by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5:21-22, and memorialized as noble by Luke in Acts 17:11.

The fact that you have failed to address my request for substantiable resources shows me that you have an unverified claim.

Go back and do your research.
When you actually possess material that substantiates your opinion, I'll follow up with research to corroborate your expressly stated views.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I provided you with 2 articles. There are numerous passage links contained in them both.
If you're smart enough to argue, then you're smart enough to read, and follow the instructions given by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5:21-22, and memorialized as noble by Luke in Acts 17:11.

The fact that you have failed to address my request for substantiable resources shows me that you have an unverified claim.

Go back and do your research.
When you actually possess material that substantiates your opinion, I'll follow up with research to corroborate your expressly stated views.

Those 2 articles are opinions. Opinions do not trump scripture or language. Spirit in Greek is neuter. Spirit in Hebrew is feminine.

Show me scripture that refers to the Holy Spirit as "he".

 

[DavidTree]

Indeed.
I encourage you to think about this when you post.

Still talking about the second coming.
The harpadzo is not the second coming.

Nope.
You're talking second coming and conflating it with the harpadzo.

The harpadzo, Jesus isn't coming to the earth. He comes to the earth at the second coming.

At the harpadzo, we meet Him in the air.

At the second coming, we come to the earth with Him.

Two distinctly different events.

Do you think that the bride of the wedding should be at her wedding or show up afterwards?

Read Revelation 19 and tell me... is there a time distinction for the wedding and the second coming?

Seems to me that the wedding is before the second coming.

@SteveB says: "The harpadzo is not the second coming."

This is a perfect example of SUBTRACTING from God's words.

CRYSTAL CLEAR = 1 Thess 4:13-18 = the Second Coming and the Resurrection PRECEEDS the rapture!

Anyone who refutes this is in opposition to the Truth of God's DIRECT words.

 

[SteveB]

Those 2 articles are opinions. Opinions do not trump scripture. Show me scripture that refers to the Holy Spirit as "he".

Again you failed to provide substantiation to your claim.

You're increasing your lack of integrity here.

The articles are rife with passage references (which you can't even do), as commanded and honored by Paul, and Luke.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The Holy Spirit is not a "he". The Greek word is neuter. The Hebrew word is feminine. Michael is a "he".

Not entirely true.

You must consider that πνεῦμα is often used with ὁ, ἡ, τό.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Those 2 articles are opinions. Opinions do not trump scripture or language. Spirit in Greek is neuter. Spirit in Hebrew is feminine.

Show me scripture that refers to the Holy Spirit as "he".

Isa 63:10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.

 

[SteveB]

@SteveB says: "The harpadzo is not the second coming."

This is a perfect example of SUBTRACTING from God's words.

I'd say that if you actually think the two are same, you're adding to the word of God.

We can keep going around in circles.
I'll restate what you desperately asked me not to say.


[SIZE=4][COLOR=rgb(24, 88, 134)]@SteveB[/COLOR][/SIZE] says: "And it's obvious that you see my existence as proof that it's not true, so the only thing you have remaining is that me and my kind must be frauds."
Never say this my Brother.
***************************************************************************************

 

[DavidTree]

Those 2 articles are opinions. Opinions do not trump scripture or language. Spirit in Greek is neuter. Spirit in Hebrew is feminine.

Show me scripture that refers to the Holy Spirit as "he".

We know that the FATHER/SON/HOLY SPIRIT are only referred to as "HE"

The Holy Spirit is always referred to as "HE" and never as "she".

Only the Bride of Christ is referred to a "she" along with the earthbound nation of Israel.

 

[DavidTree]

I'd say that if you actually think the two are same, you're adding to the word of God.

We can keep going around in circles.
I'll restate what you desperately asked me not to say.


[SIZE=4][COLOR=rgb(24, 88, 134)]@SteveB[/COLOR][/SIZE] says: "And it's obvious that you see my existence as proof that it's not true, so the only thing you have remaining is that me and my kind must be frauds."
Never say this my Brother.
***************************************************************************************

Actually, to say that there will be a pre-trib rapture adds to God's words since it cannot be found anywhere in Scripture.

You must add to God's words and subtract from God's words to come up with pre-trib rapture = in every place in Scripture.

Matt ch24 , 1 Thess, 2 Thess and 1 John all point this out.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Again you failed to provide substantiation to your claim.

You're increasing your lack of integrity here.

The articles are rife with passage references (which you can't even do), as commanded and honored by Paul, and Luke.

You still haven't showed me scripture that refers to the Holy Spirit as "he". Use scripture, not articles.

 

[SteveB]

Actually, to say that there will be a pre-trib rapture adds to God's words since it cannot be found anywhere in Scripture.

Then by all means, you're claiming you know more than theologians and pastors who've taught for decades longer than either of us have been following Jesus.
So far the only thing you're claiming is mental superiority.

You must add to God's words and subtract from God's words to come up with pre-trib rapture = in every place in Scripture.

Matt ch24 , 1 Thess, 2 Thess and 1 John all point this out.

Remember what I stated before...
What you see as supporting your view, I see as supporting my view.

The very same passages you hold to, I hold to, along with a good number more.

 

[DavidTree]

Then by all means, you're claiming you know more than theologians and pastors who've taught for decades longer than either of us have been following Jesus.
So far the only thing you're claiming is mental superiority.


Remember what I stated before...
What you see as supporting your view, I see as supporting my view.

The very same passages you hold to, I hold to, along with a good number more.

i only make the SAME claim as our LORD & Savior Jesus Christ = "It is written"

Since "pre-trib" rapture was never "written" in the Scriptures.

Follow the Path that is laid out for 'us' = Matt ch24

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

We know that the FATHER/SON/HOLY SPIRIT are only referred to as "HE"

The Holy Spirit is always referred to as "HE" and never as "she".

Only the Bride of Christ is referred to a "she" along with the earthbound nation of Israel.

The Father and Son are definitely "he". But the Holy Spirit is not referred to as "he". It is logical to assume the Holy Spirit is "he" since the Holy Spirit is God. However, logic is not scripture.

 

[atpollard]

The name is unfortunate as Amillenialist do not hold there is no millenial reign of christ. They just hold his reign is from heaven and it is over the church

What EXCATLY does that mean?

If Christ is reigning over His Church [on Earth] from heaven for a thousand years ... does that mean we have been a leaderless church for the last 1000 years (since He only "reigned" from AD 33 (ish) to AD 1033 (ish)?

If Christ WILL reign over His Church in Heaven for 1000 years after the 'Final Day' ... what does that mean for the rest of ETERNITY?

[This solution, at face value, is no less problematic that all the others].