Augustine's unbiblical doctrine of Amillennialism

[atpollard]

I view all scriptures from the only Viewpoint that has been Authorized.

The KJV Bible?

 

[SteveB]

i only make the SAME claim as our LORD & Savior Jesus Christ = "It is written"

Exactly.
It IS written...

Since "pre-trib" rapture was never "written" in the Scriptures.

The opinions of your teachers.
beating me over the head with variations on the same rhetoric aren't going to change anything.

Follow the Path that is laid out for 'us' = Matt ch24

what makes you think I'm not, and haven't been since 1977?

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

You're quoting a passage we refer to as the second coming passage.

 

[SteveB]

The Father and Son are definitely "he". But the Holy Spirit is not referred to as "he". It is logical to assume the Holy Spirit is "he" since the Holy Spirit is God. However, logic is not scripture.

So in your mind, God is not masculine?

 

[DavidTree]

The Father and Son are definitely "he". But the Holy Spirit is not referred to as "he". It is logical to assume the Holy Spirit is "he" since the Holy Spirit is God. However, logic is not scripture.

Biblical Logic is the precedent of being aligned with what God has declared of Himself beginning in Genesis and ending with Revelation.

God/Elohim is never described as 'female' gender.

God does include within Himself the ability to have 'motherly' concern = See Matthew 23:37

As you know, Holy Spirit is not a 'it' and is never referred as a 'she' or 'her'.

Peace my Brother

 

[DavidTree]

Exactly.
It IS written...


The opinions of your teachers.
beating me over the head with variations on the same rhetoric aren't going to change anything.

what makes you think I'm not, and haven't been since 1977?

You're quoting a passage we refer to as the second coming passage.

There ONLY exists in Scripture a First & Second Coming/Advent of Christ in the flesh.

@SteveB - Notice how no-one is able to post a single direct "It is written" pre-trib rapture verse UNLESS they add/subtract from "It is written".

 

[TomL]

According to Tom.

It's real simple. Just post a verse which actually mentions a pretrib rapture. Not a verse where you have to read it into it.

 

[DavidTree]

The KJV Bible?

Always refer back to the Scripture Itself = John chapters 1 and 17

 

[DavidTree]

It's real simple. Just post a verse which actually mentions a pretrib rapture. Not a verse where you have to read it into it.

i love SIMPLE

As does the LORD

For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.” 6But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Biblical Logic is the precedent of being aligned with what God has declared of Himself beginning in Genesis and ending with Revelation.

God/Elohim is never described as 'female' gender.

God does include within Himself the ability to have 'motherly' concern = See Matthew 23:37

As you know, Holy Spirit is not a 'it' and is never referred as a 'she' or 'her'.

Peace my Brother

If the Bible follows that logic, then one should be able to cite a scripture that refers to the Holy Spirit as "he".

 

[TomL]

What EXCATLY does that mean?

If Christ is reigning over His Church [on Earth] from heaven for a thousand years ... does that mean we have been a leaderless church for the last 1000 years (since He only "reigned" from AD 33 (ish) to AD 1033 (ish)?

If Christ WILL reign over His Church in Heaven for 1000 years after the 'Final Day' ... what does that mean for the rest of ETERNITY?

[This solution, at face value, is no less problematic that all the others].

No the number 1000 is figurative not literal

Christ's exaltation

Acts 2:29–36 (KJV 1900) — 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

the end of his reign when he comes again defeating death the last enemy
'
1 Corinthians 15:22–28 (KJV 1900) — 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

 

[DavidTree]

If the Bible follows that logic, then one should be able to cite a scripture that refers to the Holy Spirit as "he".

“If you love Me, [d]keep My commandments. 16And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. 26But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ 6But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. 8And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

 

[DavidTree]

No the number 1000 is figurative not literal

Christ's exaltation

Acts 2:29–36 (KJV 1900) — 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

the end of his reign when he comes again defeating death the last enemy
'
1 Corinthians 15:22–28 (KJV 1900) — 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

"DEATH" is not destroyed until the GWTJ of Revelation 20:11-14

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

“If you love Me, [d]keep My commandments. 16And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. 26But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ 6But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. 8And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

Thank you. I sit corrected, παράκλητον (helper) is masculine.

 

[SteveB]

There ONLY exists in Scripture a First & Second Coming/Advent of Christ in the flesh.

Bingo!
Whoever told you that the harpadzo is a coming lied to you.
We who hold to the Pre-trib harpadzo don't see it as a coming.
We never did.
So, take that into your consideration and recognize-- Jesus isn't coming to the earth.
we're meeting him in the air.

How many translations of the verse would you like to see?
I have 57 in my Bible app, minus the interlinear, or old testament Bibles.

I hope you can read Greek, and Latin. There are some interlinear translations which are quite detailed in their content.



1 Thessalonians 4:17

ABP έπειτα Thereupon ημείς we οι the ζώντες living, οι the ones περιλειπόμενοι remaining, άμα together συν with αυτοίς them αρπαγησόμεθα shall be seized εν in νεφέλαις clouds, εις for απάντησιν meeting του the κυρίου Lord εις in αέρα the air, και and ούτω thus πάντοτε at all times συν with κυρίω the Lord εσόμεθα we shall be.

BBE Then we who are still living will be taken up together with them into the clouds to see the Lord in the air: and so will we be for ever with the Lord.



BIB ἔπειτα (Then) ἡμεῖς (we) οἱ (the) ζῶντες (living) οἱ (-) περιλειπόμενοι (remaining), ἅμα (together) σὺν (with) αὐτοῖς (them), ἁρπαγησόμεθα (will be caught away) ἐν (in) νεφέλαις (the clouds) εἰς (for) ἀπάντησιν (the meeting) τοῦ (of the) Κυρίου (Lord) εἰς (in) ἀέρα (the air); καὶ (and) οὕτως (so) πάντοτε (always) σὺν (with) Κυρίῳ (the Lord) ἐσόμεθα (we will be).

Bishops Than we which lyue, which remaine, shalbe caught vp together with them in the cloudes, to meete the Lorde in the ayre: And so shall we euer be with the Lorde.

BLB Then we, the living remaining, will be caught away together with them in the clouds for the meeting of the Lord in the air; and so we will be always with the Lord.

BSB After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

Coverdale then shal we which lyue and remayne, be caught vp wt them also in the cloudes, to mete the LORDE in the ayre, and so shal we euer be with the LORDE.

Darby then we, the living who remain, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall be always with the Lord.

DRC Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be taken up together with them in the clouds to meet Christ, into the air, and so shall we be always with the Lord.

EasyEnglish After that, those of us who are still alive at that time will go up. God will take us up to be together with them in the clouds. He will take us to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord always.

Geneva Then shall we which liue and remaine, be caught vp with them also in the clouds, to meete the Lord in the ayre: and so shall we euer be with the Lorde.


HNV then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. So we will be with the Lord forever.

ISV Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

JMNT Thereupon (or: After that; As a next step) we, the presently living folks, the ones presently continuing to be left around, will – at the same time, together with them – proceed being seized and snatched away within clouds (or: carried off by force, in union with clouds,) into the midst of [the] air (the air that we breathe in; the mist; the haze; the atmosphere around us; [note: this would be in the earth's lower atmosphere, the place where there is air]) – into the Lord's meeting ([Christ’s or Yahweh’s] encounter; an encountering which is the Lord). And thus (in this way and such a manner) shall we always continue being (or: continue existing at all times) together with [the] Lord [= Christ or Yahweh].



KJV Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.



Matthew then shal we which lyue and remayne, be caught vp with them also in the cloudes, to meate the Lorde in the ayer. And so shall we euer be with the Lord.

MKJV1962 Then we who are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the] clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord.

NET Then we who are alive, who are left, will be suddenly caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

NHEB then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. So we will be with the Lord forever.


OGNT ἔπειτα epeita epiyta then ἡμεῖς hēmeis iymiys we οἱ hoi iy who ζῶντες zōntes zontes to live οἱ hoi iy who περιλειπόμενοι perileipomenoi periyliypomeniy to remain ἅμα hama ama together σὺν syn siyn with αὐτοῖς autois aftiys to them ἁρπαγησόμεθα harpagēsometha arpayiysomeθa to seize ἐν en en in νεφέλαις nephelais nefeles cloud εἰς eis iys to ἀπάντησιν apantēsin apantiysiyn meeting τοῦ tou tu the Κυρίου Kyriou kiyriyu lord εἰς eis iys toward ἀέρα aera aera air· καὶ kai ke and οὕτως houtōs utos thus πάντοτε pantote pantote always σὺν syn siyn with Κυρίῳ Kyriō kiyriyo lord ἐσόμεθα esometha esomeθa to be.

OGNTa ἔπειτα ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι ἅμα σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁρπαγησόμεθα ἐν νεφέλαις εἰς ἀπάντησιν τοῦ Κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα· καὶ οὕτως πάντοτε σὺν Κυρίῳ ἐσόμεθα.
OGNTbe ⚐ἔπειτα ⊕ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι ⊕ἅμα σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁρπαγησόμεθα ἐν νεφέλαις ⊕εἰς ἀπάντησιν τοῦ Κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα· ⚐καὶ ⊕οὕτως ⊕πάντοτε ⊕σὺν Κυρίῳ ἐσόμεθα. ἔπειταThen ἡμεῖςwe οἱthe ζῶντεςliving οἱ- περιλειπόμενοιremaining, ἅμαtogether σὺνwith αὐτοῖςthem, ἁρπαγησόμεθαwill be caught away ἐνin νεφέλαις[the] clouds εἰςfor ἀπάντησιν[the] meeting τοῦof the ΚυρίουLord εἰςin ἀέρα[the] air; Then we, the living remaining, will be caught away together with them in [the] clouds for [the] meeting of the Lord in [the] air; After that, we who are alive [and] remain will be caught up together with them in [the] clouds to meet the Lord in [the] air. καὶand οὕτωςso πάντοτεalways σὺνwith Κυρίῳ[the] Lord ἐσόμεθαwe will be. and so we will be always with [the] Lord. And so we will always {be} with [the] Lord.

OGNTk επειτα ημειϲ οι ζωντεϲ οι περιλειπομενοι αμα ϲυν αυτοιϲ αρπαγηϲομεθα εν νεφελαιϲ ειϲ απαντηϲιν του κ̅υ̅ ειϲ αερα· και ουτωϲ παντοτε ϲυν κ̅ω̅ εϲομεθα.

OGNTla °° 4:17.w1-w18 @4:16.w17-w234:17.w1adjunctheadἔπειταthen4:17.w2-w6subjectheadἡμεῖςwe4:17.w3-w6definer° 4:17.w3-w424:17.w3-w4predicatorspecifierοἱwhoheadζῶντεςto live° 4:17.w5-w624:17.w5-w6predicatorspecifierοἱwhoheadπεριλειπόμενοιto remain4:17.w7adjunctheadἅμαtogether4:17.w8-w9adjunctspecifierσὺνwithheadαὐτοῖςto them4:17.w10predicatorheadἁρπαγησόμεθαto seize4:17.w11-w12adjunctspecifierἐνinheadνεφέλαιςcloud4:17.w13-w16adjunctspecifierεἰςtoheadἀπάντησινmeeting4:17.w15-w16qualifierspecifierτοῦtheheadΚυρίουlord4:17.w17-w18adjunctspecifierεἰςtowardheadἀέραair°° 4:17.w19-w24 @4:17.w1-w184:17.w19conjunctionheadκαὶand4:17.w20adjunctheadοὕτωςthus4:17.w21adjunctheadπάντοτεalways4:17.w22-w23adjunctspecifierσὺνwithheadΚυρίῳlord4:17.w24predicatorheadἐσόμεθαto be

OGNTnet Then we who are alive, who are left, will be suddenly caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.°ἔπειτα ⊕ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι ⊕ἅμα σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁρπαγησόμεθα ἐν νεφέλαις ⊕εἰς ἀπάντησιν τοῦ Κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα·°καὶ ⊕οὕτως ⊕πάντοτε ⊕σὺν Κυρίῳ ἐσόμεθα.

RNKJV Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Master in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Master.

SLT Then we the living being left shall be snatched up together with them in the clouds, to the meeting of the Lord in the air: and so we shall always be with the Lord.

T4T After that, God will powerfully take up into the clouds all of us believers who are still living on this earth. He will take us and those other believers who have died, in order that we all might together meet/​welcome the Lord Jesus in the sky. As a result of that, we all will be with him forever.
Tanakh-1917

Vulgate deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus

WEB then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. So we will be with the Lord forever.

Wycliffe Afterward we that lyuen, that ben left, schulen be rauyschid togidere with hem in cloudis, metinge Crist in to the eir; and so euere more we schulen be with the Lord.

Wycliffe-Modern Afterward we that live, that be left, shall be ravished together with them in clouds, meeting Christ in the air; and so evermore we shall be with the Lord.

YLT then we who are living, who are remaining over, together with them shall be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be;

@SteveB - Notice how no-one is able to post a single direct "It is written" pre-trib rapture verse UNLESS they add/subtract from "It is written".

I just posted it.
There's nothing that says Jesus is coming to the earth.

It expressly states that we will meet Jesus in the air.

Above, and off the earth.

 

[DavidTree]

Thank you. I sit corrected, παράκλητον (helper) is masculine.

Please know that i am not on this forum to quarrel.

The Fellowship in Christ and His words of Life are the Way, the Truth and the Life that i seek to enjoy with the Brethren - no matter who!

 

[SteveB]

It's real simple. Just post a verse which actually mentions a pretrib rapture. Not a verse where you have to read it into it.

I have. For several months now.
Several of us have.
You've become so blinded by your desire to be right that you've lost your objectivity.

 

[DavidTree]

Bingo!
Whoever told you that the harpadzo is a coming lied to you.
We who hold to the Pre-trib harpadzo don't see it as a coming.
We never did.
So, take that into your consideration and recognize-- Jesus isn't coming to the earth.
we're meeting him in the air.

How many translations of the verse would you like to see?
I have 57 in my Bible app, minus the interlinear, or old testament Bibles.

I hope you can read Greek, and Latin. There are some interlinear translations which are quite detailed in their content.



1 Thessalonians 4:17

ABP έπειτα Thereupon ημείς we οι the ζώντες living, οι the ones περιλειπόμενοι remaining, άμα together συν with αυτοίς them αρπαγησόμεθα shall be seized εν in νεφέλαις clouds, εις for απάντησιν meeting του the κυρίου Lord εις in αέρα the air, και and ούτω thus πάντοτε at all times συν with κυρίω the Lord εσόμεθα we shall be.

BBE Then we who are still living will be taken up together with them into the clouds to see the Lord in the air: and so will we be for ever with the Lord.



BIB ἔπειτα (Then) ἡμεῖς (we) οἱ (the) ζῶντες (living) οἱ (-) περιλειπόμενοι (remaining), ἅμα (together) σὺν (with) αὐτοῖς (them), ἁρπαγησόμεθα (will be caught away) ἐν (in) νεφέλαις (the clouds) εἰς (for) ἀπάντησιν (the meeting) τοῦ (of the) Κυρίου (Lord) εἰς (in) ἀέρα (the air); καὶ (and) οὕτως (so) πάντοτε (always) σὺν (with) Κυρίῳ (the Lord) ἐσόμεθα (we will be).

Bishops Than we which lyue, which remaine, shalbe caught vp together with them in the cloudes, to meete the Lorde in the ayre: And so shall we euer be with the Lorde.

BLB Then we, the living remaining, will be caught away together with them in the clouds for the meeting of the Lord in the air; and so we will be always with the Lord.

BSB After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

Coverdale then shal we which lyue and remayne, be caught vp wt them also in the cloudes, to mete the LORDE in the ayre, and so shal we euer be with the LORDE.

Darby then we, the living who remain, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall be always with the Lord.

DRC Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be taken up together with them in the clouds to meet Christ, into the air, and so shall we be always with the Lord.

EasyEnglish After that, those of us who are still alive at that time will go up. God will take us up to be together with them in the clouds. He will take us to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord always.

Geneva Then shall we which liue and remaine, be caught vp with them also in the clouds, to meete the Lord in the ayre: and so shall we euer be with the Lorde.


HNV then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. So we will be with the Lord forever.

ISV Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

JMNT Thereupon (or: After that; As a next step) we, the presently living folks, the ones presently continuing to be left around, will – at the same time, together with them – proceed being seized and snatched away within clouds (or: carried off by force, in union with clouds,) into the midst of [the] air (the air that we breathe in; the mist; the haze; the atmosphere around us; [note: this would be in the earth's lower atmosphere, the place where there is air]) – into the Lord's meeting ([Christ’s or Yahweh’s] encounter; an encountering which is the Lord). And thus (in this way and such a manner) shall we always continue being (or: continue existing at all times) together with [the] Lord [= Christ or Yahweh].



KJV Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.



Matthew then shal we which lyue and remayne, be caught vp with them also in the cloudes, to meate the Lorde in the ayer. And so shall we euer be with the Lord.

MKJV1962 Then we who are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the] clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord.

NET Then we who are alive, who are left, will be suddenly caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

NHEB then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. So we will be with the Lord forever.


OGNT ἔπειτα epeita epiyta then ἡμεῖς hēmeis iymiys we οἱ hoi iy who ζῶντες zōntes zontes to live οἱ hoi iy who περιλειπόμενοι perileipomenoi periyliypomeniy to remain ἅμα hama ama together σὺν syn siyn with αὐτοῖς autois aftiys to them ἁρπαγησόμεθα harpagēsometha arpayiysomeθa to seize ἐν en en in νεφέλαις nephelais nefeles cloud εἰς eis iys to ἀπάντησιν apantēsin apantiysiyn meeting τοῦ tou tu the Κυρίου Kyriou kiyriyu lord εἰς eis iys toward ἀέρα aera aera air· καὶ kai ke and οὕτως houtōs utos thus πάντοτε pantote pantote always σὺν syn siyn with Κυρίῳ Kyriō kiyriyo lord ἐσόμεθα esometha esomeθa to be.

OGNTa ἔπειτα ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι ἅμα σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁρπαγησόμεθα ἐν νεφέλαις εἰς ἀπάντησιν τοῦ Κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα· καὶ οὕτως πάντοτε σὺν Κυρίῳ ἐσόμεθα.
OGNTbe ⚐ἔπειτα ⊕ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι ⊕ἅμα σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁρπαγησόμεθα ἐν νεφέλαις ⊕εἰς ἀπάντησιν τοῦ Κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα· ⚐καὶ ⊕οὕτως ⊕πάντοτε ⊕σὺν Κυρίῳ ἐσόμεθα. ἔπειταThen ἡμεῖςwe οἱthe ζῶντεςliving οἱ- περιλειπόμενοιremaining, ἅμαtogether σὺνwith αὐτοῖςthem, ἁρπαγησόμεθαwill be caught away ἐνin νεφέλαις[the] clouds εἰςfor ἀπάντησιν[the] meeting τοῦof the ΚυρίουLord εἰςin ἀέρα[the] air; Then we, the living remaining, will be caught away together with them in [the] clouds for [the] meeting of the Lord in [the] air; After that, we who are alive [and] remain will be caught up together with them in [the] clouds to meet the Lord in [the] air. καὶand οὕτωςso πάντοτεalways σὺνwith Κυρίῳ[the] Lord ἐσόμεθαwe will be. and so we will be always with [the] Lord. And so we will always {be} with [the] Lord.

OGNTk επειτα ημειϲ οι ζωντεϲ οι περιλειπομενοι αμα ϲυν αυτοιϲ αρπαγηϲομεθα εν νεφελαιϲ ειϲ απαντηϲιν του κ̅υ̅ ειϲ αερα· και ουτωϲ παντοτε ϲυν κ̅ω̅ εϲομεθα.

OGNTla °° 4:17.w1-w18 @4:16.w17-w234:17.w1adjunctheadἔπειταthen4:17.w2-w6subjectheadἡμεῖςwe4:17.w3-w6definer° 4:17.w3-w424:17.w3-w4predicatorspecifierοἱwhoheadζῶντεςto live° 4:17.w5-w624:17.w5-w6predicatorspecifierοἱwhoheadπεριλειπόμενοιto remain4:17.w7adjunctheadἅμαtogether4:17.w8-w9adjunctspecifierσὺνwithheadαὐτοῖςto them4:17.w10predicatorheadἁρπαγησόμεθαto seize4:17.w11-w12adjunctspecifierἐνinheadνεφέλαιςcloud4:17.w13-w16adjunctspecifierεἰςtoheadἀπάντησινmeeting4:17.w15-w16qualifierspecifierτοῦtheheadΚυρίουlord4:17.w17-w18adjunctspecifierεἰςtowardheadἀέραair°° 4:17.w19-w24 @4:17.w1-w184:17.w19conjunctionheadκαὶand4:17.w20adjunctheadοὕτωςthus4:17.w21adjunctheadπάντοτεalways4:17.w22-w23adjunctspecifierσὺνwithheadΚυρίῳlord4:17.w24predicatorheadἐσόμεθαto be

OGNTnet Then we who are alive, who are left, will be suddenly caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.°ἔπειτα ⊕ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι ⊕ἅμα σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁρπαγησόμεθα ἐν νεφέλαις ⊕εἰς ἀπάντησιν τοῦ Κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα·°καὶ ⊕οὕτως ⊕πάντοτε ⊕σὺν Κυρίῳ ἐσόμεθα.

RNKJV Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Master in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Master.

SLT Then we the living being left shall be snatched up together with them in the clouds, to the meeting of the Lord in the air: and so we shall always be with the Lord.

T4T After that, God will powerfully take up into the clouds all of us believers who are still living on this earth. He will take us and those other believers who have died, in order that we all might together meet/​welcome the Lord Jesus in the sky. As a result of that, we all will be with him forever.
Tanakh-1917

Vulgate deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus

WEB then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. So we will be with the Lord forever.

Wycliffe Afterward we that lyuen, that ben left, schulen be rauyschid togidere with hem in cloudis, metinge Crist in to the eir; and so euere more we schulen be with the Lord.

Wycliffe-Modern Afterward we that live, that be left, shall be ravished together with them in clouds, meeting Christ in the air; and so evermore we shall be with the Lord.

YLT then we who are living, who are remaining over, together with them shall be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be;



I just posted it.
There's nothing that says Jesus is coming to the earth.

It expressly states that we will meet Jesus in the air.

Above, and off the earth.

SteveB says: "Whoever told you that the harpadzo is a coming lied to you."

The LJC and His Apostles never lied to "us".

1 Thess 1:10
and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath.

1 Thess 4:13-18
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are [d]asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.

 

[TomL]

“If you love Me, [d]keep My commandments. 16And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. 26But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ 6But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. 8And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

Clearly it does

Note though a person the Holy Spirit is sometimes referred to in a neuter fashion

Spirit” is grammatically neuter in Greek and treated as a “thing” and not a person in English. This is probably why the King James Version refers to the Spirit as “it” (John 1:32; 1 Pet 1:11) and translates “the Spirit itself” (Rom 8:16, 26) instead of “the Spirit himself” (ESV, NIV, CSB et al.).

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Please know that i am not on this forum to quarrel.

The Fellowship in Christ and His words of Life are the Way, the Truth and the Life that i seek to enjoy with the Brethren - no matter who!

I agree 100%. I'm happy to admit when I'm wrong. It's the right thing to do.

 

[TomL]

I have. For several months now.
Several of us have.
You've become so blinded by your desire to be right that you've lost your objectivity.

No, you claimed it after reading it into a verse.

Produce a verse which actually states it, then we will see who is objective