Are we Predestined?
- Thread starter TibiasDad
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English.
TibiasDad
Active Member
What he foreknows is who will ultimately believe and be saved. Both what and who are true! Foreknowledge does not mean predetermined.
Doug
brightfame52
Active Member
Yes it does as here Acts 2:23
- Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Also it's the Greek word prognōsis:
foreknowledge
forethought, pre-arrangement
TibiasDad
Active Member
We are not talking about Acts 2:23, but Romans 8. The meaning of the word is found in its context.
Rom 8:29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.
Notice that foreknowledge and predestination are both used by God , so they are not the same thing. He foreknew and then predestined. To say he pre-arranged and also predestined is doublespeak.
Doug
Joe
Active Member
Well brother, at least you admit Calvinism is the second of the "biggest lies ever on the church" by saying "Second only to rampant Semi-Pelagianism ."
Personally, I've never ran into anyone who claimed they came to God on their own. I know many who heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ, were convicted by the Holy Spirit of their need for salvation, believed in Jesus Christ and called out to Him. And I'm sure some of them like me loved sin more than God and would not repent-make the wholehearted decision to stop living to sin and begin living to God even though calling out to be forgiven. If it were not for the loving grace of God, the many like me, to our shame, who loved sin instead of God would still be loving sin on the path to hell.
God does everything but repent and believe for you. That is not "semi-Pelagianism", but is what God requires from a person to be saved.
The conundrum of Calvinists is saying when an unregenerate person repents and believes it is "works salvation" and yet even a regenerated person "must" repent and believe to be saved. So who repents and believes for the regenerate? Is it God or man. If man then it is works salvation. If God then use the bible to prove God repents and believes for a person.
No one draws himself. As Jesus said, "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT BY GOD.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me." When we hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ, we are hearing from the Father, and for those who learn from what they hear, they come to God by believing in Jesus Christ.
Now that Jesus is no longer here on earth, the Spirit of God is the One convicting the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment. And to those who listen to Him, they repent and believe calling out to be saved. And like the Apostle John stated in John 1:12-13, "But to all who believed him and accepted him, he gave the right to become children of God. They are reborn—not with a physical birth resulting from human passion or plan, but a birth that comes from God."
Jesus is the One who gives the right to the one who believes in Him "to become" a child of God; to be born again of the Spirit.
The salvic order is belief first, regeneration second. Unless of course John got it wrong.
God Bless
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True. Because He has determined who He will save and will not save.
He foreknows because He has determined what will occur. God does not simply observe the future.
That is the tired old teaching of the Open Theism. It is false. God foreknows everything, most of which He has not determined.
And yes, God does indeed simply observe and know the future. That is called omniscience. It is one of God's attributes. God's foreknowledge is His omniscience applied to the future.
God can do whatever He chooses to do.
brightfame52
Active Member
Foreknowledge does mean predetermined
Why would you think that?
That is just another Calvinist lie. And there are so many.
brightfame52
Active Member
brightfame52
Active Member
That means God learned something from some other source besides His own predetermined counsel. You are saying He learned what men would do without Himself determining what men would do
Define what you mean by determine.
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