Are we Predestined?

[brightfame52]

Define what you mean by determine.

Look it up

 

[Carol]

That's not God's foreknowledge.

Looks like you are the one that made the claim.

 

[brightfame52]

Looks like you are the one that made the claim.

I know what I posted

 

[Obadiah]

I know what I posted

That's just your opinion

Opinion definition: A view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

 

[brightfame52]

That's just your opinion

That's your opinion

 

[Carol]

That's your opinion

It's the truth.

 

[Jim]

Look it up

I know what it means but it would appear that you do not which is why I ask you to define it. After all, in Calvinism, there are so many words in the scriptures pertaining to salvation that are terribly distorted.

 

[Obadiah]

That's your opinion

I said it first.

 

[TibiasDad]

That means God learned something from some other source besides His own predetermined counsel. You are saying He learned what men would do without Himself determining what men would do

I said nothing about learning! God knows, he does not learn.

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

I know what it means but it would appear that you do not which is why I ask you to define it. After all, in Calvinism, there are so many words in the scriptures pertaining to salvation that are terribly distorted.

I know what it means.

 

[brightfame52]

I said nothing about learning

You don't have to, it's a logical conclusion. If God knows things that will happen without predetermining them,then He gained knowledge from a source outside of His own predetermination. You saying God gained knowledge of who would believe without Him determining who would believe.

 

[Jim]

I know what it means.

Not if you think that foreknowledge is the same as determinism.

 

[brightfame52]

Not if you think that foreknowledge is the same as determinism.

I gave the Greek word definition

 

[TibiasDad]

God does not simply observe the future.

Why not?

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

Foreknowledge does mean predetermined

No it doesn’t! God can know something without predetermining it! Otherwise, God is not able to see what he does not cause. That makes God the cause of sin.

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

You don't have to, it's a logical conclusion. If God knows things that will happen without predetermining them,then He gained knowledge from a source outside of His own predetermination. You saying God gained knowledge of who would believe without Him determining who would believe.

It’s called omniscience!

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

You don't have to, it's a logical conclusion. If God knows things that will happen without predetermining them,then He gained knowledge from a source outside of His own predetermination. You saying God gained knowledge of who would believe without Him determining who would believe.

Your logic is based on a bad premise, thus all subsequent arguments are increasingly flawed.

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

No it doesn’t! God can know something without predetermining it! Otherwise, God is not able to see what he does not cause. That makes God the cause of sin.

Doug

Yes it does . God is the first cause of Sin because He's the first cause of Salvation. Do you deny God is the first cause of Salvation?

 

[brightfame52]

It’s called omniscience!

Doug

You still saying God learned something outside of Himself.

 

[TibiasDad]

Yes it does . God is the first cause of Sin because He's the first cause of Salvation. Do you deny God is the first cause of Salvation?

God cannot cause that which contradicts his character of being.

Doug