Are we Predestined?
- Thread starter TibiasDad
- Start date
atpollard
Active Member
Romans 8:30 [ESV] And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
- Predestined
- Called
- Justified
- Glorified
- God does it.
- We receive it.
- It has everything to do with “salvation”.
And it's the right opinion.
You business was predestined to go bankrupt.
Angelo
Active Member
The lie of calvinism
Calvinists believe god chose them before they believed in Jesus to hear about Jesus, and believe, and that he chose everyone else to go to hell. They reject the concept of free will which is clearly displayed throughout the entire bible from Adam, and Eve making the decision to ruin perfection by disobeying God, and eating from the tree of knowledge of good, and evil, and bringing the curse upon themselves, due to their own greed for more, to Jesus who said "not my will but your will be done father".
They might cite some verses from Ephesians 1
4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.
11 In him we were also chosen,[e] having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,
So those verses do appeal to someone's pride, and make them think god chose them in their sin however verse 12 goes onto say
12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.
..the first to put our hope in Christ.... the 1st century AD apostles, and Christians. God chose them, and gave them grace so they would believe when they heard about Jesus for the purpose of spreading the gospel, which had been done by the time the NT was written (col 1: 6) so as to not risk people not hearing about the gospel, and having free will to believe or not.
Once the whole world (the Roman empire at the time) had heard the whole gospel well... Gods job was done. He had sent his son as sacrifice for sins, and everyone had heard it, and if they didn't want to believe it that's their choice, and to hell they go. Like Noah preaching before the flood, or Lot trying to find a righteous person in Sodom... once someone has heard, and not believed that is that persons choice, and so God will judge them when they die, but save the righteous (believers in Jesus).
Also the OT prophets were chosen, and elect in the same way as the first century AD Christians however Abraham still had a choice "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness". Now for everyone in history except those people you become chosen after; not before you believe in Jesus "But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light."
Also the remnant of Israelites in the OT was chosen, and given a gift of grace because God had made promises to Abraham, David, Judah, and maybe other righteous prophets that the saviour would come from their lineage so he had to preserve the lineage until Jesus came other wise all the Israelites would of gone apostate worshipping Baal, Molech etc, and God would of had to of killed them.
Then there was a remnant in the NT "At this time there is a remnant" which I suppose was not necessary to preserve the lineage at that point so not sure the purpose of it but anyway "at this time" meant the first century AD which means they are long dead. God gave them grace, they believed in Jesus, and got saved. James starts out with "to the twelve tribes scattered abroad", and the 144,000 in Revelation focuses on genealogical descent which under the new covenant is irrelevant "don't give heed to endless genealogies" so the 144, 000 was likely the remnant mention in Romans.
Here is a documentary on free will and the bible
atpollard
Active Member
God does not NEED to choose people to "go to hell" ... people are naturally quite capable of achieving damnation 100% on their own merits. God only needs to work to save people (unfortunately, the task of saving requires EXTRA-ORDINARY effort on God's part).
atpollard
Active Member
Too long ... one should be able to make a point in far less than 1 hour. Hank Deweerd advocated that Christians that wanted to be heard should have an "elevator speech" version of their message (short enough to be delivered in the time one was riding in an elevator). That was how long you had to capture the interest and attention of a listener. If they want to hear more, they can then ask questions (creating a conversation).
brightfame52
Active Member
That's your opinion
brightfame52
Active Member
That's your opinion, it's actually the Gospel and men just reject it as Calvinism
And it's still the Right Opinion.
We need to reject the lies of men and Calvinism is one of the biggest lies ever on the church.
Some commonly cited criticisms of Calvinism include its doctrines of total depravity and predestination, which critics argue can lead to the "lie" that God is not loving or merciful, or that human free will is nonexistent.
Other perceived "lies" or problematic doctrines include the idea that humans are "enslaved to sin" and can't love God without God's intervention, and that "all events are governed by God's secret counsel," leaving no room for chance or free will.
It's not an opinion as it is well documented.
brightfame52
Active Member
Unfortunately you have rejected the Gospel of God's Grace
Obadiah
Active Member
Your tulip teaching is nowhere close to being the gospel God's grace. It's nothing but a man-made doctrine that goes against what the bible and the church teach.
So yes... we all should reject it.
Fortunately I "know the truth, and the truth will set you free". This refers to freedom from sin and condemnation through spiritual truth. Calvinism can't do that. It will keep you in bondage to a lie.
atpollard
Active Member
Second only to rampant Semi-Pelagianism ... those that usurp the role of the Holy Spirit by drawing themselves to the Son, and proclaiming they gave themselves ears to hear and eyes to see and removed their own heart of stone ... denying their death and bondage to sin as God states in Romans and Ephesians.
Angelo
Active Member
Right On!
TibiasDad
Active Member
Careful…”When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness.” Rom 6:20 This means we are/were enslaved to sin.
Because of this we are lovers of ourselves (2Tim 3:2) and do not love God, nor could we had not God loved us first. (1 John 4:10)
Doug
It does not say what He foreknew is thhat they would believe the gospel. Forknow is a verb in Romans 8. Its not what He foreknows, its who He foreknows.
And all of Gods people said, AMEN!
But we don't. How come?
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