Are we Predestined?

[brightfame52]

God cannot cause that which contradicts his character of being.

Doug

Does Salvation do that?

 

[TibiasDad]

Does Salvation do that?

Salvation does not contradict his character, for God is love.

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

Salvation does not contradict his character, for God is love.

Doug

Okay Salvation is because of sin. So who is the first cause of Salvation from sin? Who's eternal purpose was it?

 

[TibiasDad]

Okay Salvation is because of sin. So who is the first cause of Salvation from sin? Who's eternal purpose was it?

Purpose is derived from character of being. God is Love, and seeks the restoration of relationship with his creation.

Doug

 

[civic]

You don't have to, it's a logical conclusion. If God knows things that will happen without predetermining them,then He gained knowledge from a source outside of His own predetermination. You saying God gained knowledge of who would believe without Him determining who would believe.

foreknowledge precedes determining an outcome.

next fallacy

 

[brightfame52]

Purpose is derived from character of being. God is Love, and seeks the restoration of relationship with his creation.

Doug

Gods Love was active in predestination in that He predestined in love to the adoption of Children through Jesus Christ Eph 1:4-5

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

So again who is the first cause of salvation from sin?

 

[brightfame52]

foreknowledge precedes determining an outcome.

next fallacy

That's the reverse of what is stated here in scripture Acts 2:23

Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

 

[FreeInChrist]

@brightfame52

Actts 2: 23He was delivered up by God’s set plan and foreknowledge, and you, by the hands of the lawless, put Him to death by nailing Him to the cross. 24But God raised Him from the dead, releasing Him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for Him to be held in its clutches.…

IOW God's plan and God had the foreknowledge to know the outcome because the outcome was already in place.

 

[Kampioen]

So He simply observes the future? So if He simply observers the future can He change what He sees?

No, God can't make changes against what He foreknows. Because He would have foreknown the change.

But He does have preliminary foreknowledge, ie foreknowledge of what would have happened if He hadn't intervened.

However, God doesn't observe the future as if it exists to know. He just knows. God foreknows an open unsettled future.

 

[brightfame52]

@brightfame52

Actts 2: 23He was delivered up by God’s set plan and foreknowledge, and you, by the hands of the lawless, put Him to death by nailing Him to the cross. 24But God raised Him from the dead, releasing Him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for Him to be held in its clutches.…

IOW God's plan and God had the foreknowledge to know the outcome because the outcome was already in place.

He had the 4 knowledge because He determined it, a complimentary scripture passage Acts 4 :27-28

27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

 

[Gaius]

He had the 4 knowledge because He determined it, a complimentary scripture passage Acts 4 :27-28

27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

Acts 17:27-28 teaches that God has placed people on Earth so they would seek Him and find Him, emphasizing that God is near to everyone. This is because, in Him, "we live and move and have our being," and all people are his "offspring," a truth echoed by some ancient poets. The verses highlight that seeking God is a universal human pursuit and that God is accessible to all.

 

[brightfame52]

Acts 17:27-28 teaches that God has placed people on Earth so they would seek Him and find Him, emphasizing that God is near to everyone. This is because, in Him, "we live and move and have our being," and all people are his "offspring," a truth echoed by some ancient poets. The verses highlight that seeking God is a universal human pursuit and that God is accessible to all.

Rabbit trail, but even in that passage God's predetermined will is mentioned Acts 17:26

26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

 

[civic]

That's the reverse of what is stated here in scripture Acts 2:23

Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

nope whom He forknew those He predestined.

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