And All Israel Shall Be Saved!

jeremiah1five

jeremiah1five

Active Member
That's what rabbi Saul said in Romans:

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Romans 11:25–27.

What covenant is that? The New Covenant instituted at the Passover by Jesus sealing it in His blood. God had been going towards this goal ever since He first made covenant promises with Abram the Hebrew (Genesis 14:13), in Genesis chapters 12, 15, and 17.
From Abram to the last Hebrew/Jew to be born into the world, ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED, Saul says in quoting Jeremiah who prophesied of a New Covenant between God and the Hebrew people. Jesus instituted this New Covenant at the Passover meal in the upper room (Passover: a Hebrew observance.) When Jesus was crucified and died on His cross His unblemished sacrifice to God was received and applied to the sins of every Hebrew born into the world. Here is Jeremiah's words on that:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour (member of another tribe), and every man his brother (member of the same tribe), saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:33–34.

"For I will FORGIVE their iniquity and remember their sin NO MORE!

This, Jesus accomplished on the cross. And atonement was accomplished for all of Israel. God has forgiven the iniquity of Israel - even their supporting crucifying Him - and will remember their sin NO MORE!
Israel is restored to God and all Israel shall be saved.
Can I get an "Amen!"?
 
Rabbi Paul did say all Israel will be saved. He also said not all Israel is Israel or, more specifically, not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. The Greek transliteration actually states, "for not all who are Israel are these Israel." So...... when Paul says all Israel will be saved do you think he means the Israel that is Israel, or the Israel that is not Israel? Or maybe both? When he says "not all are of Israel..." do you think he means Jacob (who was called Israel), or do you think he means the geo-political nation-state Israel, or do you think he means those in whom God perseveres (which is what the name "Israel" means), or some other group?

Do you have a searchable eBible? I'd like to ask you some questions and point out a few facts of scripture, but I want you to verify the answers and the points rather than just take my word for it.
 
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will make a new covenant
With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
In the day that I took them by the hand
To bring them out of the land of Egypt;
Which my covenant they brake,
Although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour [member of another tribe], and every man his brother [member of the same tribe], saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:31–34.

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,
Romans 8:1.

Those that are in Christ Jesus is those who at the appointed time become born-again by the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL (Joel.)
 
The Church is Israel[Not National Israel], the Spiritual Kingdom of God, and we know this by many promises made to Israel in the OT times find its ultimate fulfillment in the NT Gospel dispensation,for instance, when Paul wrote to a gentile city church assembly, Corinth, designating them Saints 1 Cor 1:2

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

The word saints here is the greek word hagios:

set apart by (or for) God, holy, sacred.

They were a people set apart from the world, and when writing his second epistle to them, he applied OT promises made to Israel , he applied to them 2 Cor 6:14-18

14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. 11
 

Has the Church Replaced Israel ?​


Rom 9:6

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

No, The Church has always been Israel, but not Israel after the flesh, or the physical nation of Israel See within the physical nation of Israel was always a remnant according to the election of Grace, which is also Israel. Now under the Old Covenant Spiritual Israel, the Body of Christ was mostly comprised of saved jewish Christians. They would usually be persecuted by the non Christian jews in the nation Matt 5:12

Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets[Believers in Crist] which were before you.

Lk 13:34

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

Now under the New Covenant, Body of Christ Israel the election of Grace has been multiplied by saving and grafting in multitudes into Spiritual Israel, which is still the Body of Christ! So, The Body of Christ, Israel according to the Spirit, the Election of Grace is not a replacement, it always has been, its now clarified who they are.
 
brightfame52 said:

Has the Church Replaced Israel ?​


Rom 9:6

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

No, The Church has always been Israel, but not Israel after the flesh, or the physical nation of Israel See within the physical nation of Israel was always a remnant according to the election of Grace, which is also Israel. Now under the Old Covenant Spiritual Israel, the Body of Christ was mostly comprised of saved jewish Christians. They would usually be persecuted by the non Christian jews in the nation Matt 5:12

Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets[Believers in Crist] which were before you.

Lk 13:34

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

Now under the New Covenant, Body of Christ Israel the election of Grace has been multiplied by saving and grafting in multitudes into Spiritual Israel, which is still the Body of Christ! So, The Body of Christ, Israel according to the Spirit, the Election of Grace is not a replacement, it always has been, its now clarified who they are.
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nowhere is all of the bible does God say Israel is the church- the Jews are the church- converted Jews are part of the church.

next fallacy
 
When Paul wrote Rom 11:25-27

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 for this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins

The All Israel that shall be saved is not the physical nation of Israel, but Spiritual Israel, the Body of Christ, comprised of Abrahams Spiritual seed of promise, consisting of jews and gentiles. So in this manner, by the calling in of the Gentile Elect, Sheep together with the jew elect sheep, all Israel shall be saved, the Body of Christ !
 
brightfame52 said:
When Paul wrote Rom 11:25-27

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 for this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins

The All Israel that shall be saved is not the physical nation of Israel, but Spiritual Israel, the Body of Christ, comprised of Abrahams Spiritual seed of promise, consisting of jews and gentiles. So in this manner, by the calling in of the Gentile Elect, Sheep together with the jew elect sheep, all Israel shall be saved, the Body of Christ !
Click to expand...
According to Joel he prophesied God would give His Spirit to the [children of] Israel.

This happened and was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost, the Jewish Feast of Harvest.

On that day recorded in the book of Acts the Holy Spirit came down as a rushing mighty wind and filled the eleven disciples.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Acts 2:1–4.

On this day natural Olive tree Israel became spiritual Olive tree Israel. Since the promises of God were given to His people and seed of Abraham all Jews are the target recipients of God's Spirit as promised and prophesied by Joel:

27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel,
And that I am the LORD your God, and none else:
And my people shall never be ashamed.
28 And it shall come to pass afterward,
That I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh;
And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your old men shall dream dreams,
Your young men shall see visions:
Joel 2:27–28.

Speaking to Israel the "all flesh" in context to whom these promises were made, identify the "all flesh" as Israel.
And if all Israeli flesh shall receive this promised Spirit, then "all Israel shall be saved" for one need to Holy Spirit in order to be converted from a natural existence to a spiritual reality. In the case of the eleven disciples in the upper room, their spiritual reality exhibited itself in speaking tongues.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Acts 2:4.

The Spirit is the enabler of a natural man speaking a spiritual language. What did they say?

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. Acts 2:6–11.

The giving of God's Spirit to the children of Israel was the fulfillment of not only Joel's prophesy but also of Ezekiel.

24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. Ezekiel 36:24–28.

The Church Jesus promised to build was populated and inhabited by Jews. Jews made up the body of Christ - or the Spirit. Christ = "Anointing" and anointing refers to the Spirit. Thus, the body of the Spirit were Jews.
 
brightfame52 said:
Dude you trusting in the flesh
Click to expand...
God gave Israel His Law and trusted in the flesh for obedience.
Now that natural Olive tree Israel has become spiritual Olive tree Israel the same expectation of God's people exists.
We are ALL in the flesh and we have God's Law - which is spiritual - still valid for obedience. We still have to "not have other gods before us."
Or do you think that doesn't apply to us anymore?
 
jeremiah1five said:
God gave Israel His Law and trusted in the flesh for obedience.
Click to expand...
You trust in the flesh, that not good. Paul was given repentance from that foolishness Phil 3:4-8

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

His jewish hebrew heritage was trusting in the flesh, now he counted it dung, as far as a right relationship with God is concerned.
 
brightfame52 said:
You trust in the flesh, that not good. Paul was given repentance from that foolishness Phil 3:4-8

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

His jewish hebrew heritage was trusting in the flesh, now he counted it dung, as far as a right relationship with God is concerned.
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Saul's OPINIONS are encouraging but what He says does not alter the fact the God has covenant with Israel and Israel shall be saved - everyone - who is the seed of Abraham according to the promises made to Him by God.
Saul can count anything he wants as loss; he doesn't change the fact that by virtue of covenant all Israel SHALL be saved.
Our salvation does not rest in our holding on to His hand, but His holding onto ours:

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. John 10:26–29.

And THAT is the bottom line.
 
brightfame52 said:
Its more than a opinion my friend, Its the Truth of God
Click to expand...
No, it is OPINION.

If Saul wants to

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, nan Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Philipians 3:4–6.

Saul elevates his circumcision as a "Hebrew of the Hebrews" that's his personal choice. I don't have to follow him and say my mixed heritage is nothing to me when it identifies me.

He says, "If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more."
Notice "I MORE."

He elevates his birth and a life as seed of Abraham. There's nothing wrong with this and there's nothing wrong if a Christian says the opposite. The fact remains:

[He is] circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless."

THAT is the truth of the Word of God for him. But in reality, he used his Roman citizenship to his benefit when necessary. Either way, Saul was obedient to the Law of Moses and this has been established in his letters and in Acts by Luke. Today, Israel is a nation. And as a nation benefit all that comes by being in a unified country. If Saul wants to count everything that separates him from non-Hebrews that's his prerogative. I don't have to follow in his thinking or opinions.
 
brightfame52 said:
Its the word of God.
Click to expand...
No, it's the word of Saul.
It happens to be in the Word of God, but it is merely opinion and that is what Saul believes and I may believe differently.

7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Philippians 3:7.

What things are gain to me were given by God to me. I accept them. I don't reject them. If Saul wants to consider the things God gave him as "dung" (feces) that's his opinion. But for me and my house what God blesses me with in this life are blessings and NOT "dung" (feces.)

My citizenship, my Constitutional rights, my character, my possessions, and everything I am in Christ I do NOT call them "dung" (feces.) If Saul wants to call what God has given him as "dung" (feces) that's his opinion. I don't see it the way he does.

27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven. John 3:27.

If Saul wants to 'count' things given to him "from heaven" (God) as "dung" (feces) I don't have to follow his opinion of the things he received of God. I prefer to be grateful for the things "heaven" (God) has given me. How Saul sees his blessings of God as "dung" (feces) is his opinion. NOT MINE.
 
brightfame52 said:
Its the word of God, you been deceived buddy
Click to expand...
You obviously do not know how to interpret the writings of the apostle Saul.
He was a rabbi and Pharisee and remained a rabbi and Pharisee throughout his life. His letters contain rabbinical interpretations of the Old Testament, and he explains the New Covenant using the Old Testament Scripture.
That is the same method we use today. But there are those who like to add to the Bible things it does not say.
For instance, the teaching that non-Hebrew Gentiles are the inheritors of the Abrahamic Covenant. This is false. God's covenant was given to Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13) and his Hebrew seed.

God promised nothing to non-Hebrew Gentiles. But like others you like to add to the Bible and say non-Hebrew Gentiles are joint heirs with the children of Jacob/Israel when there is no Scripture that says such a thing. The Hebrew Scripture of Law, Psalms, and the Prophets are 39 "books" that make up the Old Testament. Each and every writing of the Old Testament was written to and for the children of Israel. Non-Hebrew Gentiles were never part of the Abraham and Mosaic Covenants so why do you refuse to accept the Scripture as written by Moses and David and the rest of the Hebrew prophets to the Hebrew people? Where is the Scripture that states God made covenant with non-Hebrews and tell me the name of this non-Hebrew who is recipient of God's promises and what are the terms of that covenant so we may all study?

The truth of the matter is there is no such covenant God made with non-Hebrews because there is no Scripture in the Hebrew Scripture of Law, Psalms, and Prophets that say such things. And if you cannot prove through the Old Testament Hebrew Scripture that there exists a covenant between the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and non-Hebrew Gentiles, then those conclusions you and others put forward as the truth of God has no Scriptural basis.

And THAT is the bottom line.
 

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