praise_yeshua
Active Member
Do you mind explaining how you apply this to anything? Anyone can quote a verse from somewhere.
An honest inquiry into the nature of Christology by a Trinitarian
- Thread starter Dizerner
- Start date
Do you mind explaining how you apply this to anything? Anyone can quote a verse from somewhere.
Dizerner
Active Member
praise_yeshua
Active Member
1. Have you put a "fleece"?
2. Have you raised someone from the dead?
Or do you claim God has "touched my heart" as evidence? How does that work exactly?
Have you ever claimed God has "touched your heart" and then discovered that you were wrong?
Dizerner
Active Member
praise_yeshua
Active Member
He made Himself of "no reputation". You're quoting the wrong source.
Which is why I asked you about English?
Why are you avoiding that simple question?
Did Faith help you understand English or do you use a encyclopedia or dictionary?
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Then why are you even here? Not that I'm questioning your ability for anything.
Why isn't this your answer for every question?
Add it to you signature??? and just post "here" in response?
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Correct. This comment is relative to your last comment to me.
Johann
Active Member
I do-Jesus abased Himself-IF you read it in the Greek text-but suppose you are right-Scripture does not say of WHAT Jesus emptied Himself of-right?
So can you-with confidence-tell me again of WHAT Messiah emptied Himself? Since "emptied" is abased in the Greek text?
Exactly what my post to you was referring to. Like you, I want to be a sincere student of God's word in and by the Holy Spirit.
J.
Dizerner
Active Member
If you checked my link, you'd know my answer.
Unless Christ self-limits divine attributes, there is no logically conceivable way he is emptied of anything in any sense.
There I stand, I can do no other.
Johann
Active Member
Nothing to do with personal favoritism brother-we all want to come to the knowledge of truth-right?
DavidTree
Active Member
Here is when the 'son of Man' received back what He 'emptied' = Matthew 3:16
When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.
And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
DavidTree
Active Member
"Chicken before eggs" = Genesis my Brother
i am not avoiding but i am answering your question = step by step
Dizerner
Active Member
ok yeah no that's not it
that's empowerment and affirmation for ministry
Jesus answered, and said--Not for my sake,
hath this voice come, but, for your sake. (Jn. 12:30 ROT)
Dizerner
Active Member
Uh, he literally put you first.
Please stay logical here... okay?
And it's a sign that shows error.
Rockson
Active Member
I agree. And there are ways for people to interpret the Bible correctly and they don't always achieve that noble goal.
There's just so much in people's lives that have become such a life long paradigm the reflex can be fast, quick and automictic that A, B or C just cannot be true! Sometimes there's just no way to reach them. They'll still go to heaven (depending on what they're at odds with ) but in heaven the Lord will tell them , "You were absolutely wrong on what you believed about this." I suppose that's why Jm 3:1 states don't let everyone just long to be a teacher. They'll face greater scrutiny on the judgement (and I'm not talking about the heaven or hell judgement)
DavidTree
Active Member
Your quote of Jesus: "Not for my sake" underscores "the Heavens OPENED and the Spirit descended upon Him"
YES, there was still more to come and that finalization came when He Ascended back to where He was BEFORE.
"When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this [o]offend you? 62What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before?"
Dizerner
Active Member
Yeah, my motto has become "meet you at the Judgment Seat."
It seems hard to balance out telling people what they don't want to hear out of love, staying out of pride and strife for standing for the truth, and just letting a person go when it's time to let go.
It can feel quite exhausting, and we need time to feel encouraged and build ourselves up.
He said to them, "Come aside by yourselves to a deserted place and rest a while." For there were many coming and going (Mk. 6:31 NKJ)
DavidTree
Active Member
CHOICE
Some Brethren choose not to believe every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God.
On another forum there are two individuals who have chosen to not believe God's word, that declares Adam & Eve were created without sin.
Johann
Active Member
Listen brother-I am not here for likes, pride, grow a tail feather or boast-as some do-the "emptying" is "made Himself of no reputation+ like the KJV says.
Even you cannot "rightly" tell me of WHAT Messiah "emptied" Himself-The Greek text says abase-same as made of no reputation.
7. ἀλλὰ ἑαυτὸν ἐκένωσεν: ‘but emptied himself.’ For the verb, comp. Rom. 4:14; 1 Cor. 1:17, 9:15; 2 Cor. 9:3; LXX; Jer. 14:2, 15:9. Not used or intended here in a metaphysical sense to define the limitations of Christ’s incarnate state, but as a strong and graphic expression of the completeness of his self-renunciation. It includes all the details of humiliation which follow, and is defined by these. Further definition belongs to speculative theology.
G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') v.
1. to make empty.
2. (figuratively) to abase, neutralize, falsify.
[from G2756]
KJV: make (of none effect, of no reputation, void), be in vain
Root(s): G2756
I really believe my post to you is biblically sound and correct
Php 2:7 (KJV) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
made
*2Co 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.
Ps 22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
Is 49:7 Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.
Is 50:5-6 [5] The Lord GOD hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back. [6] I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.
Is 52:14 As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:
Is 53:2-3 [2] For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. [3] He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Da 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Zec 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ***, and upon a colt the foal of an ***.
Mk 9:12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.
Ro 15:3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.
Heb 2:9-18 [9] But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. [10] For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. [11] For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, [12] Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee. [13] And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. [14] Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; [15] And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. [16] For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. [17] Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. [18] For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Heb 13:3 Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; and them which suffer adversity, as being yourselves also in the body.
the form
*Mt 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
Is 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
Is 49:3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
Is 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
Is 52:13 Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high.
Is 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Eze 34:23-24 [23] And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd. [24] And I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the LORD have spoken it.
Zec 3:8 Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.
Mt 12:18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
Mk 10:44-45 [44] And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all. [45] For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
Lk 22:27 For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.
Jn 13:3-14 [3] Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God; [4] He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself. [5] After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples’ feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded. [6] Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet? [7] Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter. [8] Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. [9] Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. [10] Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all. [11] For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean. [12] So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you? [13] Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am. [14] If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another’s feet.
Ro 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
in the
*Jn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
*Ga 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Ro 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Ro 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Heb 2:14-17 [14] Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; [15] And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. [16] For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. [17] Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Reciprocal
Ge 22:9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.
Ex 21:32 If the ox shall push a manservant or a maidservant; he shall give unto their master thirty shekels of silver, and the ox shall be stoned.
Ex 39:27 And they made coats of fine linen of woven work for Aaron, and for his sons,
Le 16:4 He shall put on the holy linen coat, and he shall have the linen breeches upon his flesh, and shall be girded with a linen girdle, and with the linen mitre shall he be attired: these are holy garments; therefore shall he wash his flesh in water, and so put them on.
Le 16:23 And Aaron shall come into the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall put off the linen garments, which he put on when he went into the holy place, and shall leave them there:
Nu 19:2 This is the ordinance of the law which the LORD hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:
1Sa 18:4 And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was upon him, and gave it to David, and his garments, even to his sword, and to his bow, and to his girdle.
2Sa 6:20 Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel to day, who uncovered himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself!
1Ki 12:7 And they spake unto him, saying, If thou wilt be a servant unto this people this day, and wilt serve them, and answer them, and speak good words to them, then they will be thy servants for ever.
Ps 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
Ps 85:13 Righteousness shall go before him; and shall set us in the way of his steps.
Ps 89:19 Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people.
Ps 110:7 He shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall he lift up the head.
Pr 15:33 The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility.
Is 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Da 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Da 10:16 And, behold, one like the similitude of the sons of men touched my lips: then I opened my mouth, and spake, and said unto him that stood before me, O my lord, by the vision my sorrows are turned upon me, and I have retained no strength.
Zec 6:13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
Mt 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
Mt 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mt 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
Mt 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Mt 22:45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
Mt 23:11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
Mk 9:2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.
Mk 9:34 But they held their peace: for by the way they had disputed among themselves, who should be the greatest.
Jn 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
Jn 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Jn 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Jn 8:49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
Jn 10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
Jn 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Jn 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Ro 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Ro 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
2Co 13:4 For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you.
Eph 3:18-19 [18] May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; [19] And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Re 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
J.
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