An honest inquiry into the nature of Christology by a Trinitarian

Prove I need to prove it.

It seems you deny revelation from God... a foundation of unbelief.

Feel free to provide Scripture as evidence. I will accept such evidence.

No. I will not accept you simply insisting that Einstein or C.S. Lewis is right. They did nothing more than make claims without evidence that established their claims.
 
Feel free to provide Scripture as evidence. I will accept such evidence.

Thus, saith Yahweh, Accursed, is the man--Who trusteth in a son of earth, And hath made flesh, his arm (Jer. 17:5 ROT)

because, apart from me, ye can bring forth, nothing. (Jn. 15:5 ROT)

And, even if our glad-message is veiled, in them who are perishing, it is veiled,
In whom, the god of this age, hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving, (2 Cor. 4:3-4 ROT)
 
The reason Jesus (walking as a man) could walk on water was because of all the power being supplied to him by the Spirit.
Just like Peter who walked on water like Jesus did, but failed at one point because he was weak in "faith."

There was a time when Peter walked by people having only his shadow touching them? They were healed. (Acts 5)
Paul also was used of God to be the catalyst for many miracle healings in Acts 19.

What Jesus did "as a perfect man" was not being God. But being as a man that God held back no limits for grace
because Jesus pleased the Father completely.

After the atonement Jesus returned to Heaven and resumed his rightful function to be functioning as God,
but only after he completed on earth what was needed for us to have our faith,by first PROVING IT WOULD WORK FOR MEN!
He proved it would work for men because He pioneered our faith and had it tested while being as a man!

Its not complex as it seems. It only requires gaining more knowledge to be able to connect the dots.
That's why its imperative to not quit searching till you find and keep a good pastor teacher... who is a gift from God.

Becoming ones own teacher while not having the gift of pastor teacher is a trap from the Devil for delusion and failure.....

In Christ ....
GeneZ says: "What Jesus did "as a perfect man" was not being God."

Gene, i agree with much of your post except for the statement: "What Jesus did "as a perfect man" was not being God."

i have to step out now but i will return with some scripture that you may be interested in - thank you
 
God doesn't require such. God provides explanation. Have you found any explanations in Scripture. I have.

Again. I insist that you answer my question concerning English.

Do you require understanding of English to know God? How did faith help you with such?
The REAL Question:
Did i require 'English' or did God require for us language and with language knowledge and with knowledge understanding?
 
Faith in God's Word indeed carries with it "special AND privileged revelation"
But David what is this supposed to mean in a practical sense? Everyone religious, Chrisitan whatever will claim THEY have faith in God's word. So they can go off and claim their revelations is special and privileged even though it goes contrary to somebody else who claims that same?
 
But David what is this supposed to mean in a practical sense? Everyone religious, Chrisitan whatever will claim THEY have faith in God's word. So they can go off and claim their revelations is special and privileged even though it goes contrary to somebody else who claims that same?

There are ways to make sure you are hearing God.

Most people don't follow them.
 
But David what is this supposed to mean in a practical sense? Everyone religious, Chrisitan whatever will claim THEY have faith in God's word. So they can go off and claim their revelations is special and privileged even though it goes contrary to somebody else who claims that same?
True in what you stated.

Recently someone claimed to have "advanced knowledge" of truth even though he/she was arguing against the Truth.

Here is the Key to understanding that applies to each one of us = Matthew 4:4 , John ch4 , Acts ch1 & ch2 , 1 John ch1

Now, when i say "applies to each one of us", it does not mean that each one of us is under the Applicator.
 
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The USE of them was "emptied."

Not the POSSESSION of them.
Guess you will disagree with this?
Jesus Equals God Minus Nothing

Justin Johnson
During this time of year when some imagine the anniversary of the incarnation of God, there is a tendency for strange statements to be made about God manifest in the flesh.

One of the most fashionable is the idea that Jesus emptied himself when he was born into humanity. After all he must be made to lie in a barn, next to the drummer boy, with itty bitty toes and fingers. (See Fables Concerning the Nativity of Jesus)

Perhaps even sincere ministers will say that the baby Jesus could not use or exercise his deity attributes while he was bound in swaddling clothes (Luke 2:7).

This false view of the incarnation is dangerous and wrong, as it either makes Jesus less than God, or it separates his deity from his humanity.


Kenotic Error

Jesus emptying himself to become man is a doctrine called Kenosis. Though its consequences are similar to the earliest heresies about Christ’s deity the modern form of the Kenosis came out of the German rationalist apostasies of the 19th century.

It was at that time that the “emptying” and lesser God doctrine was answered by those who held to the fundamental tenets of the faith of Christianity. The fundamentalist movement (in contrast to the liberal) was born out of doctrinal problems such as the Kenosis.

Our doctrinal forefathers reiterated that Jesus was fully God in line with what Paul says in Col 2:9:

“For in [Jesus Christ] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” – Col 2:9

In the likeness of man, Jesus was unchanged and was separate neither from his nature as God nor his divine attributes as Paul teaches in 1 Tim 3:16:

“God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.” – 1 Tim 3:16

The King James Bible is correct when it says that Jesus, being in the form of God, merely “made himself of no reputation” (Phil 2:6-8).

Jesus Emptied Nothing-[Guess here we are in disagreement-right @dizerner?]


While in the womb, the hand of God in Christ was not shortened at all (Isa 50:2). He had the power to call the heavens to stand up together, and declare the end from the beginning (Isa 48:3, 13).

When he was yet twelve he had divine understanding and knew of the purpose for which he was sent, that is to die for the sins of all men (Luke 2:49).

In his ministry to Israel Jesus manifested his deity through omniscience, omnipotence, and transfiguration (John 1:49-50). He exercised his deity attributes both in conjunction with the Father and by his own power as God (Mat 8:24-27).


He knew the nature and the consequences of the cup before him in the garden (Mat 26:39). Yet, he proceeded knowing that what he would accomplish would be the mystery of God’s will, kept secret since the world began (Eph 3:9; 1 Cor 2:8).

That Jesus had the power to raise himself from the dead is a plain declaration of his deity (John 2:19). For many more proofs of his deity see our free resource and verse by verse study of the book of John.

If the fullness of the Godhead was in Christ, then he did not empty himself of anything. Rather he made himself to be of no reputation in the likeness of men.

if you take the time-look this up in the Greek.


A Neglected Incarnation Narrative



Meanwhile, perhaps we would have less trouble with troublesome Kenotic theology if we read the incarnation narrative in John 1 a few times instead.

John 1:1 describes the Word as God which was in the beginning. John describes the majesty of the Word who had the light of all men, and who created all things (John 1:1-3).

It was this Word of God that stepped into humanity under a fleshly veil.

“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” – John 1:14

Though the likeness of man concealed his divine nature, it was revealed to those who received him. His deity was never compromised, never emptied, never removed, and never laid aside.

Feel free to point out anything you are not agreeing with-I won't be offended brother.

 
Guess you will disagree with this?
Jesus Equals God Minus Nothing

Justin Johnson
During this time of year when some imagine the anniversary of the incarnation of God, there is a tendency for strange statements to be made about God manifest in the flesh.

One of the most fashionable is the idea that Jesus emptied himself when he was born into humanity. After all he must be made to lie in a barn, next to the drummer boy, with itty bitty toes and fingers. (See Fables Concerning the Nativity of Jesus)

Perhaps even sincere ministers will say that the baby Jesus could not use or exercise his deity attributes while he was bound in swaddling clothes (Luke 2:7).

This false view of the incarnation is dangerous and wrong, as it either makes Jesus less than God, or it separates his deity from his humanity.


Kenotic Error

Jesus emptying himself to become man is a doctrine called Kenosis. Though its consequences are similar to the earliest heresies about Christ’s deity the modern form of the Kenosis came out of the German rationalist apostasies of the 19th century.

It was at that time that the “emptying” and lesser God doctrine was answered by those who held to the fundamental tenets of the faith of Christianity. The fundamentalist movement (in contrast to the liberal) was born out of doctrinal problems such as the Kenosis.

Our doctrinal forefathers reiterated that Jesus was fully God in line with what Paul says in Col 2:9:

“For in [Jesus Christ] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” – Col 2:9

In the likeness of man, Jesus was unchanged and was separate neither from his nature as God nor his divine attributes as Paul teaches in 1 Tim 3:16:

“God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.” – 1 Tim 3:16

The King James Bible is correct when it says that Jesus, being in the form of God, merely “made himself of no reputation” (Phil 2:6-8).

Jesus Emptied Nothing-[Guess here we are in disagreement-right @dizerner?]


While in the womb, the hand of God in Christ was not shortened at all (Isa 50:2). He had the power to call the heavens to stand up together, and declare the end from the beginning (Isa 48:3, 13).

When he was yet twelve he had divine understanding and knew of the purpose for which he was sent, that is to die for the sins of all men (Luke 2:49).

In his ministry to Israel Jesus manifested his deity through omniscience, omnipotence, and transfiguration (John 1:49-50). He exercised his deity attributes both in conjunction with the Father and by his own power as God (Mat 8:24-27).


He knew the nature and the consequences of the cup before him in the garden (Mat 26:39). Yet, he proceeded knowing that what he would accomplish would be the mystery of God’s will, kept secret since the world began (Eph 3:9; 1 Cor 2:8).

That Jesus had the power to raise himself from the dead is a plain declaration of his deity (John 2:19). For many more proofs of his deity see our free resource and verse by verse study of the book of John.

If the fullness of the Godhead was in Christ, then he did not empty himself of anything. Rather he made himself to be of no reputation in the likeness of men.

if you take the time-look this up in the Greek.


A Neglected Incarnation Narrative



Meanwhile, perhaps we would have less trouble with troublesome Kenotic theology if we read the incarnation narrative in John 1 a few times instead.

John 1:1 describes the Word as God which was in the beginning. John describes the majesty of the Word who had the light of all men, and who created all things (John 1:1-3).

It was this Word of God that stepped into humanity under a fleshly veil.

“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” – John 1:14

Though the likeness of man concealed his divine nature, it was revealed to those who received him. His deity was never compromised, never emptied, never removed, and never laid aside.

Feel free to point out anything you are not agreeing with-I won't be offended brother.


Good Morning Brother Johann,

TRUE that the Word that was God emptied Himself when He left Heaven and came to earth.

When did he receive back that which He emptied?

Clue: Before His Resurrection
 
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