An Article on free will

[Kermos]

Instrumental cause of course Just like the verse indicates

John 1:12 (ESV) — 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

1:12 The phrase believe in His name occurs three times in the Gospel of John (1:12; 2:23; 3:18). Name does not refer to the term by which He is called, but to what His name stands for—the Lord is salvation (Ex. 3:14, 15). In this context, the phrase means to believe that Jesus is the Word, the life, and the Light—that is, He is the Christ, the Son of God (20:31). To them He gave the right refers to the legitimate entitlement to the position of children of God. None of us was naturally a child of God. We were by nature children of wrath and condemned apart from Christ. Imagine being a pauper and then being given the right to inherit the riches of a king and the position of royalty. By believing, undeserving sinners can become full members of God’s family.

1:13 born … of God: This new spiritual birth is not of blood, that is, by physical generation or by parents. Nor is the new birth of the will of the flesh, that is, by personal effort. Neither is the birth of the will of man, that is, something accomplished by human effort. The new birth is the work of God alone. It is a gift to be received (4:10, 14), not a reward achieved by individual effort. The new birth is based on relationship with Christ, not personal position. The relationship, however, proceeds from the position of Christ as the mediator. Christ is life (1:4; 14:6). Those who trust Him are born of God, meaning they are given spiritual life.1

1 Earl D. Radmacher, Ronald Barclay Allen, and H. Wayne House, Nelson’s New Illustrated Bible Commentary (Nashville: T. Nelson Publishers, 1999), 1311.

CHILDREN OF GOD. Persons in this category are only those who of the fallen race are regenerated as a result of faith in Christ1

1 Merrill F. Unger, “Children of God,” ed. R.K. Harrison, The New Unger’s Bible Dictionary (Chicago: Moody Press, 1988).


The Means of Regeneration

God regenerates (John 1:13) according to His will (James 1:18) through the Holy Spirit (John 3:5) when a person believes (1:12) the Gospel as revealed in the Word (1 Pet. 1:23).

Ryrie’s basic theology

Regeneration is an act of God, not a cooperative effort between God and man. That is not to say, however, that faith is unnecessary in salvation. It may be suggested that although regeneration and faith are distinct, they occur simultaneously. The two are set side by side in John 1:12–13. In John 1:12, at the moment of receiving Christ (believing), the person becomes a child of God; in John 1:13 it indicates that at that very moment the persons have been born of God. Surely there is a mystery here that surpasses human comprehension.

Moody’s handbook of theology

One becomes a child of God is born again by faith

Galatians 3:26 (KJV 1900) — 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.






Do you have anything bides your opinion to offer

Regeneration takes one from death to life and the bible is clear this happens upon faith

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 5:24–25 (KJV 1900) — 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

scripture does not support you



Again we saw scripture does not support you

Galatians 3:26 (KJV 1900) — 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.


Nothing in the text states God causes men to receive him

To believe is man's responsibility


to the gentiles it was stated

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
to the Jew having crucified Christ

Acts 2:37–38 (KJV 1900) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Never were they corrected

Not only do you failure to interpret the context correctly but you ignore the whole council of God

to propagate your false doctrine.



Yet another passage you mishandle trying to justify your theology rather than understanding the text

Don't leave out verse 27

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Calvinists tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text


Kermos said:



The people failed to understand, just like you, that Lord Jesus removed the work of man from saving belief/faith with the Lord’s marvelous sayings of “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29).


There you go with your unsupported assumptions


There you go with your unsupported assumptions

The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

In context its meaning is that which God requires of man

Repeating the same failed claims changes nothing

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Jesus tells them there is something they must do to obtain the food which last for eternal life

in context it is to believe on him

John 6:35–36 (NASB 2020) — 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe.

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

Again this establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God

John 6:29 (NASB 2020) — 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Jesus tells them they must believe

John 6:30 (NASB 2020) — 30 So they said to Him, “What then are You doing as a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work are You performing?

The jew understand him to be telling them they must believe.

An understanding confirmed by Christ as per verse 35 above

They must believe

An understanding confirmed by scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

even Calvinist commentators agree with this obvious reading


John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)

This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

Even the notes to the Geneva bible refute you


Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.


Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.

other voices


Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.

What precisely is it that God waits for us to do, and will be satisfied with our doing? To which Jesus, always ready to meet the sincere inquirer, gives the explicit answer (ver. 29) τοῦτό ἐστι … ἐκεῖνος. If God has sent a messenger it is because there is need of such interposition, and the first duty must be to listen believingly to this messenger.

Marcus Dods, The Gospel of St. John (New York: George H. Doran Company, n.d.), 752.

The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.



Mindlessly repeating your view does not negate what the scripture clearly shows






John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)



This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.



Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.



The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.



Messianic work.

28. τί ποιῶμεν …; What must we do (v. 5) that we may work? Perhaps they understood Him to mean that they must earn what they desire; certainly they see that Christ’s words have a moral meaning; they must do the works required by God. But how?

29. τὸ ἔργον. They probably thought of works of the law, tithes, sacrifices, &c. He tells them of one work, one moral act, from which all the rest derive their value, continuous belief (πιστεύητε, not πιστεύσητε) in Him whom God has sent. Comp. Acts 16:31. On ἵνα and ἀπέστειλεν see on 1:8, 33, 4:47, 17:3.1

1 A. Plummer, The Gospel according to S. John (Cambridge Greek Testament for Schools and Colleges; Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1896), 155.



τὰ ἔργα τοῦ θεοῦ must not be taken to mean ‘the works which God works,’ but, as in Jer. 48:10 (31:10 LXX): 1 Cor. 15:58, the works well pleasing to God.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 760–761.



Ἀπεκρίθη … καὶ εἶπεν 1:21, 50; 2:18. Jesus contrasts the one “work” that God actually requires (τὸ ἔργον τοῦ θεοῦ)—namely (epex. ἵνα), constant belief (πιστεύητε, pres. subjunc.) in his accredited messenger—with the many “works” the Jews imagined God demanded11 Murray J. Harris, John (Exegetical Guide to the Greek New Testament; B&H Academic, 2015), 131.




The Lord deals with the error and the truth in the question which was put to Him. In the one work which God requires of man and man owes to God, all fragmentary and partial works are included. It is a true work as answering to man’s will, but it issues in that which is not a work. This is the work of God, that ye believe on … Comp. 1 John 3:23 (his commandment).11 Brooke Foss Westcott and Arthur Westcott, eds., The Gospel according to St. John Introduction and Notes on the Authorized Version (Classic Commentaries on the Greek New Testament; London: J. Murray, 1908), 101.



Yeshua-Jesus is telling them how to receive eternal life. The people then ask Yeshua-Jesus, [57]“What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” The response of the people is referring to how they can work and receive eternal life which is salvation. Yeshua-Jesus sets the record straight by answering, [58]“This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” In other words, Yeshua-Jesus tells them that if they want to do the works of God for eternal life then believe in him who God sent. That is the work needed for salvation, believe him, Yeshua-Jesus. Yeshua-Jesus did not tell them that the works of God are only for those who are chosen or elected. Then the people, they want to see a sign so that they can believe in him.



John 6:30 (KJV 1900) — 30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee?



Garza, Dr. Al. Calvinism Challenged: How The Hebrew Bible, Jewish Sources, Jesus, The Apostles and Paul Refute Calvinism. . Sefer Press Publishing. Kindle Edition.

But all one need do to see your errolr is consifer

You basically argue one muct receive Christ in the sense of him indwelling to recieve that right

for christ in you is regeneration

So you have therm receiving this before even having the right to


an absolute absurdity you do not address


So you offer nothing but your own opinion and a refusal to be corrected by scripture, lexical data or expert Greek commentary

WOW! That's two posts in a row that you posted something accurate, TomL, congratulations, that "Instrumental cause of course Just like the verse indicates" is marvelous!

You posted "Instrumental cause of course Just like the verse indicates" regarding both of John 1:12 and the following:

​

According to your Free-willian Prophecy:​

• if Bob chooses to receive Christ, then God births Bob anew.
• if Alice chooses to receive not Christ, then God births not Alice anew.
• The conclusion: the causative factor for a person being born of God is whether a person "chooses to receive Christ".

so your posting of "Instrumental cause of course Just like the verse indicates" absolutely affirms that the Free-willian Philosophy results in a person, who chooses to receive Christ, is that person forcing God to cause that person to be born of God.

Whether "Instrumental" instead of "inconsequential" or "Instrumental" instead of "insignificant" or "Instrumental" instead of "incidental" or whatever, it matters not because the post has the word "Instrumental" right where it matters. TomL, your self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10) failed to avoid posting the phrase "Instrumental cause".

There are NO coincidences because Lord and God Jesus Christ is in control, so I acknowledge this One True Almighty God caused you, TomL, to post the very thing that you, TomL, didn't want to post thus showing the folly of the rest of your own post, TomL. Praise be to the Truth (John 14:6)!

According to the Apostle John, first God births man anew as the foundational beginning with:

​

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him, but as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God​

(John 1:10-13)​

​

and John says God expands from birthing man anew into causing man to receive and to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

This writing of John's accords with Lord Jesus saying “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21).

continued to post #2,122

 

[Kermos]

continued from post #2,121

As I look farther into your post, @TomL,, I find you prophesying falsely about the Living God Jesus Christ (1 John 4:1) based on your God Calvin, whose word you take up as your own word not just once but you treasure your God Calvin's word so much that you take up your God Calvin's word twice in your post after you repeated your God Calvin's word again and again and again in a plurality of posts, with "People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us" (the word of Calvinist TomL) against the Word of God “[/b]This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent[/b]” (John 6:29) which arrives at your adulteration “This is the NOT work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent[/b]” (the word of Calvinist TomL).

Neither God nor God's messengers states a man controls the belief of the man in order to cause the man to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent in any of the Holy Scripture that you cited or quoted, so your prophecy is false; moreover, all your gods, such as your God Calvin, certainly fail to overturn the Word of God!

For example, in these passages, you conjure up a man-centered belief structure based on the word of man instead of the Word of God, just like you do with John 6:28-29, instead of God's messenger's Righteous response that saving belief be in the hearer:

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Acts 2:37–38 (KJV 1900) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
​

Both believe and repent are works of God in man, and God's messengers say absolutely nothing different than belief is a work of God.

Repentance Defined​

THESE THREE QUESTIONS GET ANSWERED​

• What is repentance?
• Who controls repentance?
• How does a person repent?

LINGUISTIC DEFiNITION​

Let us dig into the word "repent" which means "think differently afterwards". After we believers are born from above by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3), and in like manner given the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). The Greek word metanoeó is the English word "repent" in Matthew 4:17. Let us obtain the definition of "repent".

Repent: think differently afterwards

metanoéō (from 3326 /metá, "changed after being with" and 3539 /noiéō, "think") – properly, "think differently after," "after a change of mind"; to repent (literally, "think differently afterwards") (def from 3340. metanoeó HELPS Word-studies section).
​

The word "repent" does not mean "I change my mind" as asserted by too many people. Try reciting the words of Jesus, where He is commanding the people in Matthew 4:17, except, first, replace the word "repent" with "I change my mind", then, second, replace the word "repent" with "think differently afterwards". God does not change (Malachi 3:6), so this One True God Jesus commands repent.

Godly sorrow brings "thinking differently afterward" leading to salvation (2 Corinthians 7:10, so God's power generates this sorrow within the believers hence God calls it "Godly sorrow" thus illuminating and magnifying sin (Romans 5:20).

FIRST BIBLICAL CiTATION FOR REPENTANCE - A DEEP EXAMINATION​

Here is the Christian teaching of 2 Corinthians 7:8-10. The passage (from the NASB which explicitly states that the NASB translators add bracketed words for clarity - so I have no problem removing the bracketed words from the NASB - but this is verbatim from the NASB):

1. For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it - [for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while -
2. I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [the point of] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us.
3. For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.

Paul wrote a letter that exposed the Corinthian problem, see "I caused you sorrow by my letter" in verse 8.

As Paul writes further (in verse 9), the Apostle narrows the focus with "for you were made sorrowful according to God"; moreover, the Greek of ἐλυπήθητε γὰρ κατὰ Θεόν agrees with "for you were made sorrowful according to God". "ἐλυπήθητε" means "you grieved"/"you were made sorrowful", and "γὰρ" means "for", and "κατὰ" means "down"/"against"/"according to", and "Θεόν" means "God".

Paul does not leave it there, NO, rather Paul repeats himself in verse 10 to make it clear - in Jewish fashion of repeating a point for emphasis - Paul makes it clear in no uncertain terms "the sorrow that is according to God produces a repentance without regret, to salvation". That is Paul driving the Power of God exclusive role in man's salvation point home!

NOTICE THE KEYWORDS OF "ACCORDING TO GOD".

That sorrow, that repentance, is not of man's conjuring. See the keywords and absolute concept of "according to God"!

The scripture is devoid of "sorrow that is according to your free will" or "your free will to repent" or any indication about such a notion as man's free-will choice toward God.

The Apostle wrote "the sorrow that is according to God produces thinking differently afterward without regret" (2 Corinthians 7:10).

SCRIPTURAL CITATIONS ABOUT THE SOURCE OF REPENTANCE​

BIBLE CITATION: Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? (Romans 2:4).

Notice that rebuke of people that despise repentance being from God!

BIBLE CITATION: When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." (Acts 11:18)

See that God grants repentance as testified by the disciples in Acts 11:18.

BIBLE CITATION: with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, (2 Timothy 2:25)

Paul testifies that God grants "thinking different afterwards" in 2 Timothy 2:25.

THE THREE QUESTIONS ANSWERED​

God grants repentance into people, as it is written; on the other hand, there is complete absence and silence in scripture for repentance as a work conjured up by man nor by man's "free will" nor "choice" nor "ability".

God grants repentance, and God acts for God's glory! Praise be to the Living God!

The Apostle Paul declared that the faith/belief mentioned in Galatians 3:26 is the work of God with:

by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work
(Ephesians 2:8-10)
​

so Paul says God causes man to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

And Paul is in agreement with the Apostle John who says that man's belief/faith is caused by the Father as a result of God birthing man anew with:

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him, but as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God
(John 1:10-13)
​

so John says God causes man to receive and to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

John started very broad in John 1:10 until John finished very narrowly in John 1:13 with God being the cause of "born" (John 1:13) and "believe" (John 1:12) and "children" (John 1:12) and "received" (John 1:12) for every person regenerated by God and this does not include every person in the "world".

And both Apostles are in accord with the Lord Jesus who says man believing in Jesus is the work of Almighty God with:

This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent
(John 6:29)
​

so for any person to claim that man manipulates his own belief to point at Jesus - then that man is anti-truth.

You are out of accord with all these wonderful Holy Scriptures of Ephesians 2:8-10, John 1:10-13, John 3:3-21, and John 6:29 because you believe:

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him, but as many as WORKED THE FIRST STEP TO GRAB HOLY KING Him, to them He ALLOWED THEIR SECOND STEP TO CAUSE THEMSELVES to become children of God, even to those who AS THEIR THIRD STEP CHOSE IN THEIR OWN SELF-WILL TO believe in His name, who were AS THE FOURTH STEP born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God BECAUSE OF THE FIRST STEP AND THE THIRD STEP
(the culmination of TomL's heart treasure (Matthew 15:16-19))
​

And, of John 3:3-21, your spirit prophecies:

Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not CAUSE YOURSELF TO believe, how will you CAUSE YOURSELF TO believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven EXCEPT MEN WHO JUDGE RIGHT IN THEIR OWN INITIATIVE TO BELIEVE IN ME AND He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever IS UNBORN OF GOD CHOOSING TO BELIEVE will have BORN THIS UNBORN WHOEVER'S SELF INTO eternal life.
16 For God so loved EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever LOVES THE DARKNESS RATHER THAN THE LIGHT CHOOSING TO BELIEVE in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME to judge EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME, but that EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME might be saved through Him. 18 He who FORCED GOD TO CAUSE HIMSELF TO BE BORN AGAIN BECAUSE OF HIS SELF-WILLED BELIEVING in Him is not judged; he who does not CHOOSE TO believe has been judged already, because he has not CHOSEN TO BELIEVE in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him." 3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one WHO is NOT born again he can see the kingdom of God.”
4Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one WHO is born of water and the Spirit he can enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh AND THIS EVIL FLESH PLEASES GOD, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit OF NO SIGNIFICANCE. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do know EXACTLY where it comes from and EXACTLY where it is going BECAUSE YOUR CHOOSING OF ME CONTROLS YOUR BECOMING BORN OF THE SPIRIT; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
(the word of TomL (no longer the Word of God))
​

So, your spirit prophecies a very different message than the Holy Spirit this Word of God marvelous sayings:

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
(John 3:3-21)
​

You embrace "other voices" (your words) than the Voice of God. You love stranger's voices such as Vincent, Dods, and Alford whose self-willed word is "The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent." (as preached by TomL, Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761), so your Lord Alford tells the lies of the devil about Lord Jesus Christ's pure, clear and precise Voice of God "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) which, by extension of you taking your Lord Alford's word as your own word, means that you do the same as your idol Alford.

Lord Jesus says "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber. But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep. To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers" (John 10:1-5).

Your heart's spirit is proven to make false statements about God and man, and your own interpretation is confusion. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE RIGHTEOUS ONE JESUS CHRIST!!!

 

[TomL]

WOW! That's two posts in a row that you posted something accurate, TomL, congratulations, that "Instrumental cause of course Just like the verse indicates" is marvelous!

You posted "Instrumental cause of course Just like the verse indicates" regarding both of John 1:12 and the following:

​

According to your Free-willian Prophecy:​

• if Bob chooses to receive Christ, then God births Bob anew.
• if Alice chooses to receive not Christ, then God births not Alice anew.
• The conclusion: the causative factor for a person being born of God is whether a person "chooses to receive Christ".

so your posting of "Instrumental cause of course Just like the verse indicates" absolutely affirms that the Free-willian Philosophy results in a person, who chooses to receive Christ, is that person forcing God to cause that person to be born of God.

Whether "Instrumental" instead of "inconsequential" or "Instrumental" instead of "insignificant" or "Instrumental" instead of "inconsequential" or whatever, it matters not because the post has the word "Instrumental" right where it matters. TomL, your self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10) failed to avoid posting the phrase "Instrumental cause".

There are NO coincidences because Lord and God Jesus Christ is in control, so I acknowledge this One True Almighty God caused you, TomL, to post the very thing that you, TomL, didn't want to post thus showing the folly of the rest of your own post, TomL. Praise be to the Truth (John 14:6)!

According to the Apostle John, first God births man anew as the foundational beginning with:

​

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him, but as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God​

(John 1:10-13)​

​

and John says God expands from birthing man anew into causing man to receive and to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

This writing of John's accords with Lord Jesus saying “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21).

continued to post #2,nnn

Posted to: https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/

WOW! That's two posts in a row that you posted something accurate, TomL, congratulations, that "Instrumental cause of course Just like the verse indicates" is marvelous!

You posted "Instrumental cause of course Just like the verse indicates" regarding both of John 1:12 and the following:

​

According to your Free-willian Prophecy:​

• if Bob chooses to receive Christ, then God births Bob anew.
• if Alice chooses to receive not Christ, then God births not Alice anew.
• The conclusion: the causative factor for a person being born of God is whether a person "chooses to receive Christ".

so your posting of "Instrumental cause of course Just like the verse indicates" absolutely affirms that the Free-willian Philosophy results in a person, who chooses to receive Christ, is that person forcing God to cause that person to be born of God.

Whether "Instrumental" instead of "inconsequential" or "Instrumental" instead of "insignificant" or "Instrumental" instead of "inconsequential" or whatever, it matters not because the post has the word "Instrumental" right where it matters. TomL, your self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10) failed to avoid posting the phrase "Instrumental cause".

There are NO coincidences because Lord and God Jesus Christ is in control, so I acknowledge this One True Almighty God caused you, TomL, to post the very thing that you, TomL, didn't want to post thus showing the folly of the rest of your own post, TomL. Praise be to the Truth (John 14:6)!

According to the Apostle John, first God births man anew as the foundational beginning with:

​

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him, but as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God​

(John 1:10-13)​

​

and John says God expands from birthing man anew into causing man to receive and to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

This writing of John's accords with Lord Jesus saying “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21).

continued to post #2,122

Maybe one day I will get to say that of you

Instrumental cause of course Just like the verse indicates

John 1:12 (ESV) — 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

1:12 The phrase believe in His name occurs three times in the Gospel of John (1:12; 2:23; 3:18). Name does not refer to the term by which He is called, but to what His name stands for—the Lord is salvation (Ex. 3:14, 15). In this context, the phrase means to believe that Jesus is the Word, the life, and the Light—that is, He is the Christ, the Son of God (20:31). To them He gave the right refers to the legitimate entitlement to the position of children of God. None of us was naturally a child of God. We were by nature children of wrath and condemned apart from Christ. Imagine being a pauper and then being given the right to inherit the riches of a king and the position of royalty. By believing, undeserving sinners can become full members of God’s family.

1:13 born … of God: This new spiritual birth is not of blood, that is, by physical generation or by parents. Nor is the new birth of the will of the flesh, that is, by personal effort. Neither is the birth of the will of man, that is, something accomplished by human effort. The new birth is the work of God alone. It is a gift to be received (4:10, 14), not a reward achieved by individual effort. The new birth is based on relationship with Christ, not personal position. The relationship, however, proceeds from the position of Christ as the mediator. Christ is life (1:4; 14:6). Those who trust Him are born of God, meaning they are given spiritual life.1

1 Earl D. Radmacher, Ronald Barclay Allen, and H. Wayne House, Nelson’s New Illustrated Bible Commentary (Nashville: T. Nelson Publishers, 1999), 1311.

CHILDREN OF GOD. Persons in this category are only those who of the fallen race are regenerated as a result of faith in Christ1

1 Merrill F. Unger, “Children of God,” ed. R.K. Harrison, The New Unger’s Bible Dictionary (Chicago: Moody Press, 1988).


The Means of Regeneration

God regenerates (John 1:13) according to His will (James 1:18) through the Holy Spirit (John 3:5) when a person believes (1:12) the Gospel as revealed in the Word (1 Pet. 1:23).

Ryrie’s basic theology

Regeneration is an act of God, not a cooperative effort between God and man. That is not to say, however, that faith is unnecessary in salvation. It may be suggested that although regeneration and faith are distinct, they occur simultaneously. The two are set side by side in John 1:12–13. In John 1:12, at the moment of receiving Christ (believing), the person becomes a child of God; in John 1:13 it indicates that at that very moment the persons have been born of God. Surely there is a mystery here that surpasses human comprehension.

Moody’s handbook of theology

One becomes a child of God is born again by faith

Galatians 3:26 (KJV 1900) — 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.






Do you have anything bides your opinion to offer

Regeneration takes one from death to life and the bible is clear this happens upon faith

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 5:24–25 (KJV 1900) — 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

scripture does not support you



Again we saw scripture does not support you

Galatians 3:26 (KJV 1900) — 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.


Nothing in the text states God causes men to receive him

To believe is man's responsibility


to the gentiles it was stated

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
to the Jew having crucified Christ

Acts 2:37–38 (KJV 1900) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Never were they corrected

Not only do you failure to interpret the context correctly but you ignore the whole council of God

to propagate your false doctrine.



Yet another passage you mishandle trying to justify your theology rather than understanding the text

Don't leave out verse 27

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Calvinists tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text


Kermos said:



The people failed to understand, just like you, that Lord Jesus removed the work of man from saving belief/faith with the Lord’s marvelous sayings of “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29).


There you go with your unsupported assumptions


There you go with your unsupported assumptions

The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

In context its meaning is that which God requires of man

Repeating the same failed claims changes nothing

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Jesus tells them there is something they must do to obtain the food which last for eternal life

in context it is to believe on him

John 6:35–36 (NASB 2020) — 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe.

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

Again this establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God

John 6:29 (NASB 2020) — 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Jesus tells them they must believe

John 6:30 (NASB 2020) — 30 So they said to Him, “What then are You doing as a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work are You performing?

The jew understand him to be telling them they must believe.

An understanding confirmed by Christ as per verse 35 above

They must believe

An understanding confirmed by scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

even Calvinist commentators agree with this obvious reading


John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)

This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

Even the notes to the Geneva bible refute you


Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.


Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.

other voices


Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.

What precisely is it that God waits for us to do, and will be satisfied with our doing? To which Jesus, always ready to meet the sincere inquirer, gives the explicit answer (ver. 29) τοῦτό ἐστι … ἐκεῖνος. If God has sent a messenger it is because there is need of such interposition, and the first duty must be to listen believingly to this messenger.

Marcus Dods, The Gospel of St. John (New York: George H. Doran Company, n.d.), 752.

The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.



Mindlessly repeating your view does not negate what the scripture clearly shows






John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)



This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.



Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.



The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.



Messianic work.

28. τί ποιῶμεν …; What must we do (v. 5) that we may work? Perhaps they understood Him to mean that they must earn what they desire; certainly they see that Christ’s words have a moral meaning; they must do the works required by God. But how?

29. τὸ ἔργον. They probably thought of works of the law, tithes, sacrifices, &c. He tells them of one work, one moral act, from which all the rest derive their value, continuous belief (πιστεύητε, not πιστεύσητε) in Him whom God has sent. Comp. Acts 16:31. On ἵνα and ἀπέστειλεν see on 1:8, 33, 4:47, 17:3.1

1 A. Plummer, The Gospel according to S. John (Cambridge Greek Testament for Schools and Colleges; Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1896), 155.



τὰ ἔργα τοῦ θεοῦ must not be taken to mean ‘the works which God works,’ but, as in Jer. 48:10 (31:10 LXX): 1 Cor. 15:58, the works well pleasing to God.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 760–761.



Ἀπεκρίθη … καὶ εἶπεν 1:21, 50; 2:18. Jesus contrasts the one “work” that God actually requires (τὸ ἔργον τοῦ θεοῦ)—namely (epex. ἵνα), constant belief (πιστεύητε, pres. subjunc.) in his accredited messenger—with the many “works” the Jews imagined God demanded11 Murray J. Harris, John (Exegetical Guide to the Greek New Testament; B&H Academic, 2015), 131.




The Lord deals with the error and the truth in the question which was put to Him. In the one work which God requires of man and man owes to God, all fragmentary and partial works are included. It is a true work as answering to man’s will, but it issues in that which is not a work. This is the work of God, that ye believe on … Comp. 1 John 3:23 (his commandment).11 Brooke Foss Westcott and Arthur Westcott, eds., The Gospel according to St. John Introduction and Notes on the Authorized Version (Classic Commentaries on the Greek New Testament; London: J. Murray, 1908), 101.



Yeshua-Jesus is telling them how to receive eternal life. The people then ask Yeshua-Jesus, [57]“What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” The response of the people is referring to how they can work and receive eternal life which is salvation. Yeshua-Jesus sets the record straight by answering, [58]“This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” In other words, Yeshua-Jesus tells them that if they want to do the works of God for eternal life then believe in him who God sent. That is the work needed for salvation, believe him, Yeshua-Jesus. Yeshua-Jesus did not tell them that the works of God are only for those who are chosen or elected. Then the people, they want to see a sign so that they can believe in him.



John 6:30 (KJV 1900) — 30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee?



Garza, Dr. Al. Calvinism Challenged: How The Hebrew Bible, Jewish Sources, Jesus, The Apostles and Paul Refute Calvinism. . Sefer Press Publishing. Kindle Edition.

But all one need do to see your errolr is consifer

You basically argue one muct receive Christ in the sense of him indwelling to recieve that right

for christ in you is regeneration

So you have therm receiving this before even having the right to


an absolute absurdity you do not address


So you offer nothing but your own opinion and a refusal to be corrected by scripture, lexical data or expert Greek commentary

In the meantime


here is another commentary on the greek text

29. The Lord deals with the error and the truth in the question which was put to Him. In the one work which God requires of man and man owes to God, all fragmentary and partial works are included. It is a true work as answering to man’s will, but it issues in that which is not a work. This is the work of God, that ye believe on … Comp. 1 John 3:23 (his commandment).
that ye believe (ἵνα πιστεύητε)] The phrase marks not only the simple fact of believing (τὸ πιστεύειν), but the effort directed to and issuing in this belief. Comp. 4:34, note. And again it expresses not the single decisive act (ἵνα πιστεύσητε, 13:19), but the continuous state of faith.
This simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works. Faith is the life of works; works are the necessity of faith.


Brooke Foss Westcott and Arthur Westcott, eds., The Gospel according to St. John Introduction and Notes on the Authorized Version (Classic Commentaries on the Greek New Testament; London: J. Murray, 1908), 101.


And by a noted Calvinist

28. The crowd misunderstands the thrust of Jesus’ prohibition. His words ‘Do not work for food that spoils’ (v. 27) did not focus on the nature of work, but on what is or is not an appropriate goal. His point was not that they should attempt some novel form of work, but that merely material notions of blessing are not worth pursuing. They respond by focusing all attention on work: (lit.) ‘What must we do in order to work the works of God?’ The expression ‘the works of God’ does not refer to the works that God performs, but (as in NIV) to the works God requires. Their question therefore resolves into this:Tell us what works God requires, and we will perform them. From John’s perspective, their naivete is formidable. They display no doubt about their intrinsic ability to meet any challenge God may set them;they evince no sensitivity to the fact that eternal life is first and foremost a gift within the purview of theSon of Man (v. 27).29. Jesus sets them straight: The work of God–i.e. what God requires–is faith. This is not faith in the abstract, an existential trust without a coherent object. Rather, they must believe in the one [God] has sent. D.A. Carson - Gospel of John

Maybe you should just give it up

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

"The work of God" is not the same thing as "The work God requires".

 

[TomL]

"The work of God" is not the same thing as "The work God requires".

You assume that

29. Jesus sets them straight: The work of God–i.e. what God requires–is faith. This is not faith in the abstract, an existential trust without a coherent object. Rather, they must believe in the one [God] has sent. Such language may reflect a specific Old Testament passage, such as Malachi 3:1 where God promises to send, in due time, the ‘messenger of the covenant’, but in fact the language is reminiscent of the entire ‘sentness’ theme in the Fourth Gospel. Jesus is supremely the one who reveals God to us, precisely because, unlike any other person, he has been in the courts of heaven and has been sent from there so that the world might be saved through him (e.g. 3:11–17). Faith, faith with proper Christological object, is what God requires, not ‘works’ in any modern sense of the term. D.A. Carson The Gospel of John

 

[Kermos]

Nope I called your repeat rejection of context nonsense

Utter nonsense

scripture is not the tradition of men and exegeting scripture is how one arrives at truth.

You ignore context and assume your interpretaion contrary to the facts

Sorry you assume an interpretation consistent with your theology while ignoring context and the harmony of scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Calvinists tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text

The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

In context its meaning is that which God requires of man

again

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Jesus tells them there is something they must do to obtain the food which last for eternal life

in context it is to believe on him

John 6:35–36 (NASB 2020) — 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe.

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

Again this establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God

John 6:29 (NASB 2020) — 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Jesus tells them they must believe

John 6:30 (NASB 2020) — 30 So they said to Him, “What then are You doing as a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work are You performing?

The jew understand him to be telling them they must believe.

An understanding confirmed by Christ as per verse 35 above

They must believe

An understanding confirmed by scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

You have addressed none of this and just assume an interpretation consistent with your theology

thus it is you who depend on the tradition of men

yet even those of your own tradition oppose your interpretation because they consider context

and soeven Calvinist commentator agree with this obvious reading


John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)



This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

Even the notes to the Geneva bible refute you


Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.


Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.

you simply without evidence asserted

The Word in John 6:27 refers to the man's work which is truly the act of God in man; on the other hand, the Word in John 6:29 refers to man's belief which is truly the act of God in man.

There is nothing in verse 27 which speaks of the acts of God in man

You have eisegetically inserted it into the passage just as you did the following

In the first moment (John 6:27), Lord Jesus explains the outward evidence of us Christians controlled by our loving Father in Heaven, and in the second moment (John 6:29), Jesus explains the inward event of us Christians controlled by our loving Father in Heaven, and this Father declares "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased. Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

reading Matthew 17:5 into john when it by no means speaks of control

Rather than exegesis, you offer only the eisegesis of your theology

Lord Jesus has me here proclaiming that His sayings are pure, clear, and precise “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), so you practice lawlessness with your "Utter nonsense" about the Word of God recorded in John 6:29, and no Christian calls the Word of God "Utter nonsense".

The definition of saving faith/belief occurs in this single sentence:

This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent
(John 6:29)
​

The King of Glory's the work of God specifically includes God's work while specifically excluding "the work of man"; therefore, every mention of saving faith/belief in the Holy Scripture is governed by this blessed definition.

Since you wrote “In context its meaning is that which God requires of man” (the word of TomL), then your heart converts John 6:29 into “This is the work of man that God requires of you, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the traditions of man as authored by TomL, see Matthew 15:9); therefore, you disobey the voice from Heaven saying "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased. Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5) because you listen to man instead of listening to the beloved Son.

The full and complete context of “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the Author and Perfecter of the faith, John 6:29) is specifically “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

As is evident, you call “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) your abominable "Utter nonsense".

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE ONE FAITH!!!

 

[TomL]

Lord Jesus has me here proclaiming that His sayings are pure, clear, and precise “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), so you practice lawlessness with your "Utter nonsense" about the Word of God recorded in John 6:29, and no Christian calls the Word of God "Utter nonsense".

The definition of saving faith/belief occurs in this single sentence:

​

This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent​

(John 6:29)​

​

The King of Glory's the work of God specifically includes God's work while specifically excluding "the work of man"; therefore, every mention of saving faith/belief in the Holy Scripture is governed by this blessed definition.

Since you wrote “In context its meaning is that which God requires of man” (the word of TomL), then your heart converts John 6:29 into “This is the work of man that God requires of you, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the traditions of man as authored by TomL, see Matthew 15:9); therefore, you disobey the voice from Heaven saying "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased. Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5) because you listen to man instead of listening to the beloved Son.

The full and complete context of “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the Author and Perfecter of the faith, John 6:29) is specifically “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

As is evident, you call “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) your abominable "Utter nonsense".

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE ONE FAITH!!!

Sorry it is not Jesus who has you proclaiming error

It's fealty to your doctrine

Jesus would not have you ignore context and the while council of God

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Calvinists tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text

The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

In context its meaning is that which God requires of man

again

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Jesus tells them there is something they must do to obtain the food which last for eternal life

in context it is to believe on him

John 6:35–36 (NASB 2020) — 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe.

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

Again this establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God

John 6:29 (NASB 2020) — 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Jesus tells them they must believe

John 6:30 (NASB 2020) — 30 So they said to Him, “What then are You doing as a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work are You performing?

The jew understand him to be telling them they must believe.

An understanding confirmed by Christ as per verse 35 above

They must believe

An understanding confirmed by scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

You have addressed none of this and just assume an interpretation consistent with your theology

thus it is you who depend on the tradition of men

yet even those of your own tradition oppose your interpretation because they consider context

and so even Calvinist commentators agree with this obvious reading


John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)



This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

Even the notes to the Geneva bible refute you


Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.


Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.

Da Carson

Jesus sets them straight: The work of God—i.e. what God requires—is faith. This is not faith in the abstract, an existential trust without a coherent object. Rather, they must believe in the one [God] has sent. Such language may reflect a specific Old Testament passage, such as Malachi 3:1 where God promises to send, in due time, the ‘messenger of the covenant’, but in fact the language is reminiscent of the entire ‘sentness’ theme in the Fourth Gospel. Jesus is supremely the one who reveals God to us, precisely because, unlike any other person, he has been in the courts of heaven and has been sent from there so that the world might be saved through him (e.g. 3:11–17). Faith, faith with proper Christological object, is what God requires, not ‘works’ in any modern sense of the term. And even the faith that we must exercise is the fruit of God’s activity (cf. notes on vv. 44, 65). Although the noun ‘faith’ is not used, this ‘work of God’ turns out to be nothing else than faith, making this ‘work of God’ diametrically opposed to what Paul means by ‘the works of the law’. As a result, the thought of the passage is almost indistinguishable from Paul: ‘For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law’ (Rom. 3:28).

D. A. Carson, The Gospel according to John (The Pillar New Testament Commentary; Leicester, England; Grand Rapids, MI: Inter-Varsity Press; W.B. Eerdmans, 1991), 285.

In response to Jesus’ command in verse 27 to pursue the spiritual, nonperishing food of eternal life, the people said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” They filtered Jesus’ words through their own warped minds and thought He was saying they needed to do some works to earn eternal life. What was that work they should do, they wondered. Similarly, the rich young ruler asked Him, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” (Matt. 19:16), and in Luke 10:25 “a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, ‘Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?’” It was a familiar matter for the Jews to pursue eternal life through their religion, so the question was common. True salvation, of course, is not by works (Titus 3:5). Thus, Jesus answered their question by noting that the only work acceptable to God is to believe in Him whom He has sent. Salvation is by grace alone (Eph. 2:8–9) through faith alone (Rom 3:28) in Christ alone (Acts 4:12),

MacArthur, John. John 1-21 MacArthur New Testament Commentary Two Volume Set (Macarthur New Testament Commentary Serie) (Kindle Locations 4677-4684). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

You have no support as even those of your own theology reject your interpretation

 

[civic]

Sorry it is not Jesus who has you proclaiming error

It's fealty to your doctrine

Jesus would not have you ignore context and the while council of God

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Calvinists tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text

The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

In context its meaning is that which God requires of man

again

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Jesus tells them there is something they must do to obtain the food which last for eternal life

in context it is to believe on him

John 6:35–36 (NASB 2020) — 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe.

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

Again this establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God

John 6:29 (NASB 2020) — 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Jesus tells them they must believe

John 6:30 (NASB 2020) — 30 So they said to Him, “What then are You doing as a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work are You performing?

The jew understand him to be telling them they must believe.

An understanding confirmed by Christ as per verse 35 above

They must believe

An understanding confirmed by scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

You have addressed none of this and just assume an interpretation consistent with your theology

thus it is you who depend on the tradition of men

yet even those of your own tradition oppose your interpretation because they consider context

and so even Calvinist commentators agree with this obvious reading


John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)



This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

Even the notes to the Geneva bible refute you


Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.


Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.

Da Carson

Jesus sets them straight: The work of God—i.e. what God requires—is faith. This is not faith in the abstract, an existential trust without a coherent object. Rather, they must believe in the one [God] has sent. Such language may reflect a specific Old Testament passage, such as Malachi 3:1 where God promises to send, in due time, the ‘messenger of the covenant’, but in fact the language is reminiscent of the entire ‘sentness’ theme in the Fourth Gospel. Jesus is supremely the one who reveals God to us, precisely because, unlike any other person, he has been in the courts of heaven and has been sent from there so that the world might be saved through him (e.g. 3:11–17). Faith, faith with proper Christological object, is what God requires, not ‘works’ in any modern sense of the term. And even the faith that we must exercise is the fruit of God’s activity (cf. notes on vv. 44, 65). Although the noun ‘faith’ is not used, this ‘work of God’ turns out to be nothing else than faith, making this ‘work of God’ diametrically opposed to what Paul means by ‘the works of the law’. As a result, the thought of the passage is almost indistinguishable from Paul: ‘For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law’ (Rom. 3:28).

D. A. Carson, The Gospel according to John (The Pillar New Testament Commentary; Leicester, England; Grand Rapids, MI: Inter-Varsity Press; W.B. Eerdmans, 1991), 285.

In response to Jesus’ command in verse 27 to pursue the spiritual, nonperishing food of eternal life, the people said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” They filtered Jesus’ words through their own warped minds and thought He was saying they needed to do some works to earn eternal life. What was that work they should do, they wondered. Similarly, the rich young ruler asked Him, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” (Matt. 19:16), and in Luke 10:25 “a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, ‘Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?’” It was a familiar matter for the Jews to pursue eternal life through their religion, so the question was common. True salvation, of course, is not by works (Titus 3:5). Thus, Jesus answered their question by noting that the only work acceptable to God is to believe in Him whom He has sent. Salvation is by grace alone (Eph. 2:8–9) through faith alone (Rom 3:28) in Christ alone (Acts 4:12),

MacArthur, John. John 1-21 MacArthur New Testament Commentary Two Volume Set (Macarthur New Testament Commentary Serie) (Kindle Locations 4677-4684). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

You have no support as even those of your own theology reject your interpretation

Yes they tear them out as if it’s a memory verse that has no context .

I now call it fortune cookie theology

Wishful thinking

 

[TomL]

Yes they tear them out as if it’s a memory verse that has no context .

I now call it fortune cookie theology

Wishful thinking

He just ignores all the evidence contrary to his view and repeats it by rote

 

[Kermos]

Duh the verse does nothing at all to support your theology

BTW it is preceded by

John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.


refuting your doctrine of limited atonement hello






Read the context

John 6:49–63 (KJV 1900) — 49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. 52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. 59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. 60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? 61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

It has to do with his words not being literal but figurative

BTW note

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you

It refers to believing and coming to Christ else you have no life in you

Got that! Your belief God makse the spiritually dead alive apart from faith in Christ is refuted




Um the passage refuted your theology

You heart's treasure of "It has to do with his words not being literal but figurative" regarding John 6:49-63 translates into you literally rejecting Christ's Body and the precious Blood of Christ (John 6:49-63, Matthew 26:26-28, 1 Corinthians 11:24-34) - see the Word of God "He who rejects Me" (John 12:48).

The Glorious Word says:

​

My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink​

(John 6:55)​

​

Yet the word of man rejects the true food and the true drink by loving the traditions of men "It has to do with his words not being literal but figurative" (the word of TomL) leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

Do not be deceived, your heart converts the true food into the untrue food because of your "figurative" concept application against the Word of God.

Your heart's "It refers to believing and coming to Christ else you have no life in you" regarding the clearly pure Word of God "It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life" (John 6:63), so your heart adulterates John 6:63 into "It is your self-willed believing and coming to Christ that gives Life; the flesh profits everying; the words that I have spoken to you are nothing without your self-willed believing and coming to Christ" (the word of TomL obliterating the Holy Spirit out of John 6:63); therefore, you are one who "does not receive My sayings" (the My being Lord Jesus Christ, John 12:48).

Now, after seeing "He who rejects Me" and "does not receive My sayings" the remainder is self-explanatory:

​

He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day​

(John 12:48).​

​

To be utterly clear, your "self-willed believing in Christ unto salvation" is the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9), not the Majestic Word of God who says:

​

This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent​

(John 6:29)​

​

So every occurrence of saving faith/belief is governed by the Author and Perfecter of the one faith/belief! Glory be to God in the highest!

Continuing to be utterly clear, your thoughts about your self-willed "coming to Christ" is anti-truth because, long before you were flesh, the Holy Word of God established:

​

he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God​

(John 3:21)​

​

So, every Christian that comes to the Light, whom is Christ (John 1:4), is wrought in God. Christ is the Truth (John 14:6). Praise be to the Living God!

As my Lord Jesus caused me to explain to you in post #1,802, Christ's blessed atonement is comprehensive and complete. Christ makes a person “at one” (atone) with God. Christ fully, not limited, but completely atones (covers) the sins of us, His own people; therefore, your “refuting your doctrine of limited atonement hello” regarding John 12:47 is senseless folly.

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE MIGHTY KING WHO ATONES FOR THE SIN OF THE WORLD!!!

 

[TomL]

You heart's treasure of "It has to do with his words not being literal but figurative" regarding John 6:49-63 translates into you literally rejecting Christ's Body and the precious Blood of Christ (John 6:49-63, Matthew 26:26-28, 1 Corinthians 11:24-34) - see the Word of God "He who rejects Me" (John 12:48).

The Glorious Word says:

​

My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink​

(John 6:55)​

​

Yet the word of man rejects the true food and the true drink by loving the traditions of men "It has to do with his words not being literal but figurative" (the word of TomL) leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

Do not be deceived, your heart converts the true food into the untrue food because of your "figurative" concept application against the Word of God.

Your heart's "It refers to believing and coming to Christ else you have no life in you" regarding the clearly pure Word of God "It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life" (John 6:63), so your heart adulterates John 6:63 into "It is your self-willed believing and coming to Christ that gives Life; the flesh profits everying; the words that I have spoken to you are nothing without your self-willed believing and coming to Christ" (the word of TomL obliterating the Holy Spirit out of John 6:63); therefore, you are one who "does not receive My sayings" (the My being Lord Jesus Christ, John 12:48).

Now, after seeing "He who rejects Me" and "does not receive My sayings" the remainder is self-explanatory:

​

He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day​

(John 12:48).​

​

To be utterly clear, your "self-willed believing in Christ unto salvation" is the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9), not the Majestic Word of God who says:

​

This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent​

(John 6:29)​

​

So every occurrence of saving faith/belief is governed by the Author and Perfecter of the one faith/belief! Glory be to God in the highest!

Continuing to be utterly clear, your thoughts about your self-willed "coming to Christ" is anti-truth because, long before you were flesh, the Holy Word of God established:

​

he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God​

(John 3:21)​

​

So, every Christian that comes to the Light, whom is Christ (John 1:4), is wrought in God. Christ is the Truth (John 14:6). Praise be to the Living God!

As my Lord Jesus caused me to explain to you in post #1,802, Christ's blessed atonement is comprehensive and complete. Christ makes a person “at one” (atone) with God. Christ fully, not limited, but completely atones (covers) the sins of us, His own people; therefore, your “refuting your doctrine of limited atonement hello” regarding John 12:47 is senseless folly.

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE MIGHTY KING WHO ATONES FOR THE SIN OF THE WORLD!!!

What did you do with the fact you can have no life if

53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

you do not eat his flesh and drink his blood

Figurative for coming to and believing on Jesus

regeneration is the impartation of life and repeat a number of your mantras

thus regeneration must follow after faith

from what I see you did nothing at all to address this verse

Instead you ran to another verse which has already been rejected by exegesis and commentary from your own peers

spoke of you belief regarding limited atonement for the elect

BTW you also failed to address

John 12:47 (ESV) — 47 If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.

which shows the extant of christ's atonement encompasses any unbeliever refuting your view of limited atonement.

 

[Kermos]

Wrong I went through the context showing how it supports my view then i quoted Calvinists and others supporting it

sorry you did nothing to refute the context or the expert commentary

Spurgeon contradicts your understanding

Joh_6:29. That ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
This is the point. You would like me to work miracles. You would be glad to have very wonderful, mysterious experience, but this is the thing you ought to seek after — the grandest, greatest thing that you can have, :’ that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”

as did Calvin and Barne's

John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)



This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Calvinists tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text



Kermos said:



The people failed to understand, just like you, that Lord Jesus removed the work of man from saving belief/faith with the Lord’s marvelous sayings of “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29).


There you go with your unsupported assumptions

The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

In context its meaning is that which God requires of man

Repeating the same failed claims changes nothing

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Jesus tells them there is something they must do to obtain the food which last for eternal life

in context it is to believe on him

John 6:35–36 (NASB 2020) — 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe.

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

Again this establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God

John 6:29 (NASB 2020) — 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Jesus tells them they must believe

John 6:30 (NASB 2020) — 30 So they said to Him, “What then are You doing as a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work are You performing?

The jew understand him to be telling them they must believe.

An understanding confirmed by Christ as per verse 35 above

They must believe

An understanding confirmed by scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

even Calvinist commentator agree with this obvious reading


John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)



This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.



Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.

What precisely is it that God waits for us to do, and will be satisfied with our doing? To which Jesus, always ready to meet the sincere inquirer, gives the explicit answer (ver. 29) τοῦτό ἐστι … ἐκεῖνος. If God has sent a messenger it is because there is need of such interposition, and the first duty must be to listen believingly to this messenger.

Marcus Dods, The Gospel of St. John (New York: George H. Doran Company, n.d.), 752.

The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.

Even the notes to the Geneva bible refute you


Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.


Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.

Mindlessly repeating your view does not negate what the scripture clearly shows

Your "I went through the context showing how it supports my view then i quoted Calvinists and others supporting it" (from your opening paragraph) promoting the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9), and to be very specific Your heart's authority, your Lord Alford, wrote "The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God" regarding John 6:29, so your Lord Alford wickedly sins against Lord Jesus by bludgeoning the Word of God into "This is NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (TomL 6:29) in your Free-willian Leader Alford's heart (the man whom you quote again and again), so your free-willian tradition of men (Matthew 15:9) is clearly evident because the Authority for us Christians, my Lord Jesus Christ says “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

Your wishful thinking of "you did nothing to refute the context or the expert commentary" is your traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) because Lord Jesus proclaimed the Truth (John 14:6) long before your "expert commentary" composers of "Alford" and/or "Calvin" were born - those men whose words you exalt - those men whom your heart idolizes above the Word of God - just look at the multitude of posts in this thread alone in which you preach the word of "Alford" and your exalted leader "Calvin", even you taking their traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) as your own by sheer force of your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) plethora of posts.

Your heart's treasure of "People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us" (the words of Calvinist TomL) adulterates John 6:29 into “This is NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the word of Calvinist TomL).

Your "The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28" (TomL post quoted above) is you elevating a mere question of men of "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God" (John 6:27) into a tradition of man that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9) by your way of redefining the work of God (the Word of God, John 6:29) into a man-made thing of "NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN" (TomL 6:29) resulting in the abomination of "This is NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (TomL 6:29).

Every person loses who contradicts our Christian Head, the Christ who says man believing in Lord Jesus is the work of Almighty God with:

This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent
(the Word of God, John 6:29)
​

so for any person to claim that man manipulates his own belief to point at Jesus - then that man is anti-truth.

Your spirit's "God births those who believe and receive the Son" (proof post #2,082) is out of accord with all these wonderful Apostolic Testimony of Ephesians 2:8-10, John 1:10-13, and John 6:29:

by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work
(Ephesians 2:8-10)
​

so Paul is in accord with the Word of God saying God causes man to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

And Paul is in agreement with the Apostle John who says that man's belief/faith is caused by the Father as a result of God birthing man anew with:

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him, but as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God
(John 1:10-13)
​

so John says God causes man to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE ONE TRUE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD!!!

 

[Johann]

Your "I went through the context showing how it supports my view then i quoted Calvinists and others supporting it" (from your opening paragraph) promoting the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9), and to be very specific Your heart's authority, your Lord Alford, wrote "The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God" regarding John 6:29, so your Lord Alford wickedly sins against Lord Jesus by bludgeoning the Word of God into "This is NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (TomL 6:29) in your Free-willian Leader Alford's heart (the man whom you quote again and again), so your free-willian tradition of men (Matthew 15:9) is clearly evident because the Authority for us Christians, my Lord Jesus Christ says “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

Your wishful thinking of "you did nothing to refute the context or the expert commentary" is your traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) because Lord Jesus proclaimed the Truth (John 14:6) long before your "expert commentary" composers of "Alford" and/or "Calvin" were born - those men whose words you exalt - those men whom your heart idolizes above the Word of God - just look at the multitude of posts in this thread alone in which you preach the word of "Alford" and your exalted leader "Calvin", even you taking their traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) as your own by sheer force of your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) plethora of posts.

Your heart's treasure of "People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us" (the words of Calvinist TomL) adulterates John 6:29 into “This is NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the word of Calvinist TomL).

Your "The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28" (TomL post quoted above) is you elevating a mere question of men of "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God" (John 6:27) into a tradition of man that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9) by your way of redefining the work of God (the Word of God, John 6:29) into a man-made thing of "NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN" (TomL 6:29) resulting in the abomination of "This is NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (TomL 6:29).

Every person loses who contradicts our Christian Head, the Christ who says man believing in Lord Jesus is the work of Almighty God with:

​

This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent​

(the Word of God, John 6:29)​

​

so for any person to claim that man manipulates his own belief to point at Jesus - then that man is anti-truth.

Your spirit's "God births those who believe and receive the Son" (proof post #2,082) is out of accord with all these wonderful Apostolic Testimony of Ephesians 2:8-10, John 1:10-13, and John 6:29:

​

by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work​

(Ephesians 2:8-10)​

​

so Paul is in accord with the Word of God saying God causes man to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

And Paul is in agreement with the Apostle John who says that man's belief/faith is caused by the Father as a result of God birthing man anew with:

​

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him, but as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God​

(John 1:10-13)​

​

so John says God causes man to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE ONE TRUE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD!!!

Personally-I think you and @TomL should take a break from each other-this mudslinging must come to a end-not edifying for the body of Jesus Christ.

 

[TomL]

Your "I went through the context showing how it supports my view then i quoted Calvinists and others supporting it" (from your opening paragraph) promoting the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9), and to be very specific Your heart's authority, your Lord Alford, wrote "The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God" regarding John 6:29, so your Lord Alford wickedly sins against Lord Jesus by bludgeoning the Word of God into "This is NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (TomL 6:29) in your Free-willian Leader Alford's heart (the man whom you quote again and again), so your free-willian tradition of men (Matthew 15:9) is clearly evident because the Authority for us Christians, my Lord Jesus Christ says “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

Your wishful thinking of "you did nothing to refute the context or the expert commentary" is your traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) because Lord Jesus proclaimed the Truth (John 14:6) long before your "expert commentary" composers of "Alford" and/or "Calvin" were born - those men whose words you exalt - those men whom your heart idolizes above the Word of God - just look at the multitude of posts in this thread alone in which you preach the word of "Alford" and your exalted leader "Calvin", even you taking their traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) as your own by sheer force of your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) plethora of posts.

Your heart's treasure of "People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us" (the words of Calvinist TomL) adulterates John 6:29 into “This is NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the word of Calvinist TomL).

Your "The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28" (TomL post quoted above) is you elevating a mere question of men of "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God" (John 6:27) into a tradition of man that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9) by your way of redefining the work of God (the Word of God, John 6:29) into a man-made thing of "NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN" (TomL 6:29) resulting in the abomination of "This is NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (TomL 6:29).

Every person loses who contradicts our Christian Head, the Christ who says man believing in Lord Jesus is the work of Almighty God with:

​

This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent​

(the Word of God, John 6:29)​

​

so for any person to claim that man manipulates his own belief to point at Jesus - then that man is anti-truth.

Your spirit's "God births those who believe and receive the Son" (proof post #2,082) is out of accord with all these wonderful Apostolic Testimony of Ephesians 2:8-10, John 1:10-13, and John 6:29:

​

by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work​

(Ephesians 2:8-10)​

​

so Paul is in accord with the Word of God saying God causes man to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

And Paul is in agreement with the Apostle John who says that man's belief/faith is caused by the Father as a result of God birthing man anew with:

​

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him, but as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God​

(John 1:10-13)​

​

so John says God causes man to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE ONE TRUE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD!!!

Sorry you just repeat yourself without addressing exegesis

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-77419

Eph 2:8 does not support you

the gift is salvation as seen

Romans 6:23 (KJV 1900) — 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

and by verse 9

Ephesians 2:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

For by grace (the article shews us the import of the sentence—to take up and expand the parenthetic clause χάριτί ἐστε σεσωσμένοι above: but not barely so: that clause itself was inserted on account of the matter in hand being a notable example of the fact, and this γάρ takes up also that matter in hand—the ὑπερβάλλον πλοῦτος κ.τ.λ) ye are (perf.) saved, through [your] (or [the], but the possessive article is preferable, see below: ‘the’ would make both objective. The abstract, ‘through faith,’ must be the rendering if the article be omitted) faith (the dative above expressed the objective instrumental condition of your salvation,—this διὰ the subjective medial condition: it has been effected by grace and apprehended by faith): and this (not your faith, as Chrys. οὐδὲ ἡ πίστις, φησίν, ἐξ ὑμῶν: so Thdrt., al., Corn.-a-Iap., Beza, Est., Grot., Beng., all.;—this is precluded (not by the gender of τοῦτο, but) by the manifestly parallel clauses οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν and οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων, of which the latter would be irrelevant as asserted of πίστις, and the reference of ver. 9 must therefore be changed:—but, as Calv., Calov., Rück., Harl., Olsh., Mey., De W., Stier, al., ‘your salvation;’ τὸ σεσωσμένοι εἶναι, as Ellic.) not of yourselves, God’s (emphatic) is the gift (not, as E. V. ‘it is the gift of God’ (θεοῦ δῶρον),—τὸ δῶρον, viz. of your salvation: so that the expression is pregnant—q. d., ‘but it is a gift, and that gift is God’s.’ There is no occasion, as Lachm., Harl., and De W., to parenthesize these words: they form a contrast to οὐκ ἐξ ὑμ., and a quasi-parallel clause to ἵνα μή τις καυχήσ. below): not of works (for ἐξ ἔργων, see on Rom. 3:4, and Gal. 2:16), that no man should boast (on the proposition implied, see on Rom. 4:2. ἵνα, has in matter of fact its strictest telic sense. With God, results are all purposed; it need not be understood, when we predicate of Him a purpose in this manner, that it was His main or leading aim;—but it was one of those things included in His scheme, which ranked among His purposes).1

1 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 3; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 94.

john 1:12 also extensively dealt with

and proven by scripture on is made a child of God regenerated by faith

Regeneration by definition is the impartation of life



The following verses show faith precedes life

John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Acts 11:18 (KJV)
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

John 6:57 (KJV)
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

Regeneration makes one a child of God. Born of God -

One is made a child of God through faith

John 1:12 (KJV)
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Galatians 3:26 (KJV)
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

John 12:36 (KJV)
36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.

Regeneration is a spiritual resurrection.



We are raised spiritually through faith

Colossians 2:12 (KJV)
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

One is born again(regenerated) through faith in gospel

James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.


Regeneration is the mechanism of salvation

Titus 3:5 (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Ephesians 2:5 (KJV)
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

it is through faith we are saved

EPH 2:8 (KJV)
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

.

Regeneration is preceded by remission of sin

Colossians 2:13 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

which requires both faith and repentance

Acts 10:43 (KJV)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Luke 24:47 (KJV)
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 5:31 (KJV)
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

you accomplish nothing by repeating your opinions once again as scripture refutes your claims

 

[TomL]

Personally-I think you and @TomL should take a break from each other-this mudslinging must come to a end-not edifying for the body of Jesus Christ.

Look at what he wrote. Almost Every bit of it is an attack upon a person

rather than dealing with what was stated

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Your "I went through the context showing how it supports my view then i quoted Calvinists and others supporting it" (from your opening paragraph) promoting the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9), and to be very specific Your heart's authority, your Lord Alford, wrote "The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God" regarding John 6:29, so your Lord Alford wickedly sins against Lord Jesus by bludgeoning the Word of God into "This is NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (TomL 6:29) in your Free-willian Leader Alford's heart (the man whom you quote again and again), so your free-willian tradition of men (Matthew 15:9) is clearly evident because the Authority for us Christians, my Lord Jesus Christ says “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

Your wishful thinking of "you did nothing to refute the context or the expert commentary" is your traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) because Lord Jesus proclaimed the Truth (John 14:6) long before your "expert commentary" composers of "Alford" and/or "Calvin" were born - those men whose words you exalt - those men whom your heart idolizes above the Word of God - just look at the multitude of posts in this thread alone in which you preach the word of "Alford" and your exalted leader "Calvin", even you taking their traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) as your own by sheer force of your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) plethora of posts.

Your heart's treasure of "People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us" (the words of Calvinist TomL) adulterates John 6:29 into “This is NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the word of Calvinist TomL).

Your "The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28" (TomL post quoted above) is you elevating a mere question of men of "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God" (John 6:27) into a tradition of man that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9) by your way of redefining the work of God (the Word of God, John 6:29) into a man-made thing of "NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN" (TomL 6:29) resulting in the abomination of "This is NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (TomL 6:29).

Every person loses who contradicts our Christian Head, the Christ who says man believing in Lord Jesus is the work of Almighty God with:

​

This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent​

(the Word of God, John 6:29)​

​

so for any person to claim that man manipulates his own belief to point at Jesus - then that man is anti-truth.

Your spirit's "God births those who believe and receive the Son" (proof post #2,082) is out of accord with all these wonderful Apostolic Testimony of Ephesians 2:8-10, John 1:10-13, and John 6:29:

​

by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work​

(Ephesians 2:8-10)​

​

so Paul is in accord with the Word of God saying God causes man to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

And Paul is in agreement with the Apostle John who says that man's belief/faith is caused by the Father as a result of God birthing man anew with:

​

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him, but as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God​

(John 1:10-13)​

​

so John says God causes man to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE ONE TRUE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD!!!

Well said. Praise God.

 

[TomL]

Well said. Praise God.

Hardly. His reply was totally lacking in real biblical argumentation. Contained no biblical refutations, no biblical support for his position and offered nothing but his opinion and a lot of ad hominem

 

[Kermos]

Utter foolishness. Words must be defined before scripture can be properly interpreted. You simple define words to suit your theology much as cults do

You self-willed redefine the word see (ἰδεῖν (Strong's 3708 - ὁράω (horaó) - to see, perceive, attend to) into the word experience based on your purpose to enable yourself to perceive King Jesus of the Kingdom of God in direct disobedience to the Word of God "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

You, TomL, cannot experience King Jesus of the Kingdom of God without being born of God.

You, TomL, cannot perceive King Jesus of the Kingdom of God without being born of God.

You, TomL, cannot see King Jesus of the Kingdom of God without being born of God.

Experience is included in the Lord’s words, but not at the exclusion of perceive.

FIRST comes born of God (John 3:3-8).

SECOND comes believing (John 3:9-15).

The order is first comes John 3:3-8 and second comes John 3:9-15.

example

John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Does it mean to observe or to experience. Notice have everlasting life is contrary to not seeing life

Lord Jesus was not simply talking about "observe", in Truth (John 14:6), King Jesus is talking about "perceive" in "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

As to the believes in John the Baptists "He who believes in the Son has eternal life" (John 3:36), this believes is controlled by the Word of God who says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent
(John 6:29).

As to the does not obey in John the Baptists "he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him" (John 3:36), this does not obey applies to every Free-willian Philosopher who says "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot experience but that one can perceive the kingdom of God" (TomL 3:3) in abominable contradiction to the clear, precise and pure Word of God "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

And, again, as to the does not obey in John the Baptists "he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him" (John 3:36), this does not obey applies to every Free-willian Philosopher who says "This is NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (TomL 6:29) in abominable contradiction to the clear, precise and pure Word of God "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

And, more again, as to the does not obey in John the Baptists "he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him" (John 3:36), this does not obey applies to every Free-willian Philosopher who says "I judge what is right in order to believe in Jesus on my own initiative" (the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9)) in abominable contradiction to the clear, precise and pure Word of God "why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right" (Luke 12:57).

And, even more again, as to the does not obey in John the Baptists "he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him" (John 3:36), this does not obey applies to every Free-willian Philosopher who says "I come Jesus as wrought in my own self-will" (unrighteous man (2 Peter 2:9-10)) in abominable contradiction to the clear, precise and pure Word of God "he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21).

And, even more again, as to the does not obey in John the Baptists "he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him" (John 3:36), this does not obey applies to every Free-willian Philosopher who says "I chose Jesus, so He must give salvation to me" (the traditions of man (Matthew 15:9)) in abominable contradiction to the clear, precise and pure Word of God "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

There you go doing exactly what i stated defining words in a matter you see fit rather than taking pains to define them

You do not even examine context for further clues

John 3:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Two verse later we see the idea is to enter





You got it backwards

regeneration, the impartation of life follows after faith not before

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Believe then have life

John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Believe then have life

John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Come to Christ in faith to have life

John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Unless you believe and come to Christ you can have no life

You reverse the scriptural order

Lord Jesus starts narrowly with the nonborn of God person being unable to see King Jesus of the Kingdom of God with "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

Nicodemus asked "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he" (John 3:4) in response to the Lord’s proclamation. Notice that Nicodemus asked about the work of man which he asserted as entering a second time into his mother’s womb and be born.

The Word of God expands from the narrowly focused see (John 3:3) scope into the broader enter (John 3:5) scope with the blessed saying "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit" (John 3:5-8). Notice that Jesus incorporated enter (John 3:5) after Nicodemus used enter (John 3:4); therefore, Jesus uses see (John 3:3) to illuminate the nonborn of God person's inability to see King Jesus of the Kingdom of God (John 3:3), and Jesus uses enter (John 3:5) to illuminate the nonborn of God person's absence of internal strength to enter King Jesus Christ's Kingdom of God.

See, Jesus says "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3:6); therefore, that which is born of the flesh is not born of the Spirit, so the flesh nonborn of God person is unable to see King Jesus of the Kingdom of God because the nonborn of God person is not born again/born of God.

Your contrived "context" of "Two verse later we see the idea is to enter" is your heart adulterating John 3:3 into "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot enter the kingdom of God" (TomL 3:3) which is the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

following your method

you preach the words of your gods named Strongs as your heart's treasure (whether your heart breaks their context or not)

but here is Strongs expanded

1492 οἶδα [eido, oida /i·do/] v. A root word; TDNT 5:116; TDNTA 673; GK 3857; 666 occurrences; AV translates as “know” 282 times, “cannot tell + 3756” eight times, “know how” seven times, “wist” six times, translated miscellaneously 19 times, “see” 314 times, “behold” 16 times, “look” five times, “perceive” five times, “vr see” three times, and “vr know” once. 1 to see. 1A to perceive with the eyes. 1B to perceive by any of the senses. 1C to perceive, notice, discern, discover. 1D to see. 1D1 i.e. to turn the eyes, the mind, the attention to anything. 1D2 to pay attention, observe. 1D3 to see about something. 1D31 i.e. to ascertain what must be done about it. 1D4 to inspect, examine. 1D5 to look at, behold. 1E to experience any state or condition. 1F to see i.e. have an interview with, to visit. 2 to know. 2A to know of anything. 2B to know, i.e. get knowledge of, understand, perceive. 2B1 of any fact. 2B2 the force and meaning of something which has definite meaning. 2B3 to know how, to be skilled in. 2C to have regard for one, cherish, pay attention to (1Th. 5:12). Additional Information: For synonyms see entries 1097, ginosko; 1987, epistamai; and 4920, suniemi.See entry 5825 for comparison of synonyms.

James Strong, Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon (Woodside Bible Fellowship, 1995).

You are completely arbitrary in your approach. It is fine for you to employ a narrow lexical gloss but to use any other lexicon is worshiping them as God's

That is an extremely disingenuous methodology

Strong's is a numbering system to reference particular Greek words, so your "you preach the words of your gods named Strongs" is folly.

The concept of "see" and "perceive" is the definition of the Greek word ἰδεῖν (Strong's 3708 - ὁράω (horaó) - to see, perceive, attend to).

Sorry context and the weight of all the lexical data refutes your claim

Sorry but you beg the question assuming your limited strongs meaning is correct and all other Lexicons wrong

even then - this is strongs from biblehub

ἰδεῖν (idein)
Verb - Aorist Infinitive Active
Strong's Greek 3708: Properly, to stare at, i.e. to discern clearly; by extension, to attend to; by Hebraism, to experience; passively, to appear.

You selectively apply the data. Assuming what you desire and ignoring everything contrary to it

And in ignorance you fail to realize it is context which determines the meaning and context does not support you

John 3:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Nothing changed from your prior post which was replete with the folly outlined here:

1. you preach the words of your gods named "Arndt, Bauer, Danker, Gingrich, Brannan, Jamieson, Fausset, Brown, Robertson", and "Calvin" as your heart's treasure (whether your heart breaks their context or not).
2. your heart's "As seen the context of John 3:3 is speaking of experiencing not believing as you falsely claimed" is you adulterating the Word of God from the wonderful "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (the Word of God, John 3:3) into your abomination as based on the word of your Lord Arndt "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot experience the kingdom of God" (the word of TomL per his A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, William Arndt et al., page 221).
3. your heart's "As seen the context of John 3:3 is speaking of experiencing not believing as you falsely claimed" is you breaking the context of the consecutive sequence of "see/perceive/believe" as evidenced in the specific mention of John 3:3-8 preceding John 3:9-15 in that which God caused me to write of "In John 3:3-8, the Word of God declares that God must first cause a person to be born of God in order for a person to see/perceive/believe King Jesus of the Kingdom of God, and the Word of God immediately proceeds in John 3:9-15 to declare the resultant effect for the born of God person which is to believe in Christ"; moreover, Lord Jesus had me continue "The implication of this for John 3:16 is that God causes the born of God person to believe in Christ" illuminating that born again and believe are distinct yet related.
4. The Greek word ἰδεῖν (Strong's 3708 - ὁράω (horaó) - to see, perceive, attend to) accurately translates to see/perceive just as God had me write regarding "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3); in contrast, your prophecy of "It is clear an honest handling of this word shows it pertains to experience" for the Greek word ἰδεῖν (Strong's 3708 - ὁράω (horaó) - to see, perceive, attend to) is absent from the definition of the Greek word ἰδεῖν concept, so your prophecy (1 John 4:1) excluding "perceive" in John 3:3 is your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) own interpretation a.k.a. false prophecy.

In closing point #4, above, we see/perceive that your closing paragraph "Only by mistranslating and changing the meaning of words can you hold to your doctrine" is false that you wrote against the writing that God caused me to compose.

In fact, your mistranslation of "experience" for the Greek word ἰδεῖν (Strong's 3708 - ὁράω (horaó) - to see, perceive, attend to) means that your "Only by mistranslating and changing the meaning of words can you hold to your doctrine" applies to you.

The hearts of Free-willian Philosophers bludgeon the Word of God recorded in John 3:16 by wickedly isolating this Word of God from his larger contiguous discourse in John 3:3-21 which not only initiates with God's control over the salvation of man but it also culminates with God's control over the salvation and sanctification of man with "he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21).

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE ONE BELIEF THAT SAVES!!!

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

You self-willed redefine the word see (ἰδεῖν (Strong's 3708 - ὁράω (horaó) - to see, perceive, attend to) into the word experience based on your purpose to enable yourself to perceive King Jesus of the Kingdom of God in direct disobedience to the Word of God "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

You, TomL, cannot experience King Jesus of the Kingdom of God without being born of God.

You, TomL, cannot perceive King Jesus of the Kingdom of God without being born of God.

You, TomL, cannot see King Jesus of the Kingdom of God without being born of God.

Experience is included in the Lord’s words, but not at the exclusion of perceive.

FIRST comes born of God (John 3:3-8).

SECOND comes believing (John 3:9-15).

The order is first comes John 3:3-8 and second comes John 3:9-15.



Lord Jesus was not simply talking about "observe", in Truth (John 14:6), King Jesus is talking about "perceive" in "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

As to the believes in John the Baptists "He who believes in the Son has eternal life" (John 3:36), this believes is controlled by the Word of God who says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent
(John 6:29).

As to the does not obey in John the Baptists "he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him" (John 3:36), this does not obey applies to every Free-willian Philosopher who says "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot experience but that one can perceive the kingdom of God" (TomL 3:3) in abominable contradiction to the clear, precise and pure Word of God "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

And, again, as to the does not obey in John the Baptists "he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him" (John 3:36), this does not obey applies to every Free-willian Philosopher who says "This is NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (TomL 6:29) in abominable contradiction to the clear, precise and pure Word of God "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

And, more again, as to the does not obey in John the Baptists "he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him" (John 3:36), this does not obey applies to every Free-willian Philosopher who says "I judge what is right in order to believe in Jesus on my own initiative" (the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9)) in abominable contradiction to the clear, precise and pure Word of God "why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right" (Luke 12:57).

And, even more again, as to the does not obey in John the Baptists "he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him" (John 3:36), this does not obey applies to every Free-willian Philosopher who says "I come Jesus as wrought in my own self-will" (unrighteous man (2 Peter 2:9-10)) in abominable contradiction to the clear, precise and pure Word of God "he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21).

And, even more again, as to the does not obey in John the Baptists "he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him" (John 3:36), this does not obey applies to every Free-willian Philosopher who says "I chose Jesus, so He must give salvation to me" (the traditions of man (Matthew 15:9)) in abominable contradiction to the clear, precise and pure Word of God "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).



Lord Jesus starts narrowly with the nonborn of God person being unable to see King Jesus of the Kingdom of God with "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

Nicodemus asked "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he" (John 3:4) in response to the Lord’s proclamation. Notice that Nicodemus asked about the work of man which he asserted as entering a second time into his mother’s womb and be born.

The Word of God expands from the narrowly focused see (John 3:3) scope into the broader enter (John 3:5) scope with the blessed saying "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit" (John 3:5-8). Notice that Jesus incorporated enter (John 3:5) after Nicodemus used enter (John 3:4); therefore, Jesus uses see (John 3:3) to illuminate the nonborn of God person's inability to see King Jesus of the Kingdom of God (John 3:3), and Jesus uses enter (John 3:5) to illuminate the nonborn of God person's absence of internal strength to enter King Jesus Christ's Kingdom of God.

See, Jesus says "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3:6); therefore, that which is born of the flesh is not born of the Spirit, so the flesh nonborn of God person is unable to see King Jesus of the Kingdom of God because the nonborn of God person is not born again/born of God.

Your contrived "context" of "Two verse later we see the idea is to enter" is your heart adulterating John 3:3 into "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot enter the kingdom of God" (TomL 3:3) which is the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).



Strong's is a numbering system to reference particular Greek words, so your "you preach the words of your gods named Strongs" is folly.

The concept of "see" and "perceive" is the definition of the Greek word ἰδεῖν (Strong's 3708 - ὁράω (horaó) - to see, perceive, attend to).



Nothing changed from your prior post which was replete with the folly outlined here:

1. you preach the words of your gods named "Arndt, Bauer, Danker, Gingrich, Brannan, Jamieson, Fausset, Brown, Robertson", and "Calvin" as your heart's treasure (whether your heart breaks their context or not).
2. your heart's "As seen the context of John 3:3 is speaking of experiencing not believing as you falsely claimed" is you adulterating the Word of God from the wonderful "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (the Word of God, John 3:3) into your abomination as based on the word of your Lord Arndt "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot experience the kingdom of God" (the word of TomL per his A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, William Arndt et al., page 221).
3. your heart's "As seen the context of John 3:3 is speaking of experiencing not believing as you falsely claimed" is you breaking the context of the consecutive sequence of "see/perceive/believe" as evidenced in the specific mention of John 3:3-8 preceding John 3:9-15 in that which God caused me to write of "In John 3:3-8, the Word of God declares that God must first cause a person to be born of God in order for a person to see/perceive/believe King Jesus of the Kingdom of God, and the Word of God immediately proceeds in John 3:9-15 to declare the resultant effect for the born of God person which is to believe in Christ"; moreover, Lord Jesus had me continue "The implication of this for John 3:16 is that God causes the born of God person to believe in Christ" illuminating that born again and believe are distinct yet related.
4. The Greek word ἰδεῖν (Strong's 3708 - ὁράω (horaó) - to see, perceive, attend to) accurately translates to see/perceive just as God had me write regarding "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3); in contrast, your prophecy of "It is clear an honest handling of this word shows it pertains to experience" for the Greek word ἰδεῖν (Strong's 3708 - ὁράω (horaó) - to see, perceive, attend to) is absent from the definition of the Greek word ἰδεῖν concept, so your prophecy (1 John 4:1) excluding "perceive" in John 3:3 is your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) own interpretation a.k.a. false prophecy.

In closing point #4, above, we see/perceive that your closing paragraph "Only by mistranslating and changing the meaning of words can you hold to your doctrine" is false that you wrote against the writing that God caused me to compose.

In fact, your mistranslation of "experience" for the Greek word ἰδεῖν (Strong's 3708 - ὁράω (horaó) - to see, perceive, attend to) means that your "Only by mistranslating and changing the meaning of words can you hold to your doctrine" applies to you.

The hearts of Free-willian Philosophers bludgeon the Word of God recorded in John 3:16 by wickedly isolating this Word of God from his larger contiguous discourse in John 3:3-21 which not only initiates with God's control over the salvation of man but it also culminates with God's control over the salvation and sanctification of man with "he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21).

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE ONE BELIEF THAT SAVES!!!

"he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God"

Amen. To God be the glory.

 

[TomL]

You self-willed redefine the word see (ἰδεῖν (Strong's 3708 - ὁράω (horaó) - to see, perceive, attend to) into the word experience based on your purpose to enable yourself to perceive King Jesus of the Kingdom of God in direct disobedience to the Word of God "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

You, TomL, cannot experience King Jesus of the Kingdom of God without being born of God.

You, TomL, cannot perceive King Jesus of the Kingdom of God without being born of God.

You, TomL, cannot see King Jesus of the Kingdom of God without being born of God.

Experience is included in the Lord’s words, but not at the exclusion of perceive.

FIRST comes born of God (John 3:3-8).

SECOND comes believing (John 3:9-15).

The order is first comes John 3:3-8 and second comes John 3:9-15.

Same old nonsense

The context itself tells you what the meaning is

John 3:3–5 (NASB 2020) — 3 Jesus responded and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a person be born when he is old? He cannot enter his mother’s womb a second time and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Experience - enter the kingdom of God is the meaning established by context

The kingdom does not come with observation

Luke 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

as noted lexicon support such understanding

5. see someth.=experience someth. (Ps 26:13); good days 1 Pt 3:10 (Ps 33:13; τ. βασιλείαν J 3:3 BAGD industry standard lexicon

and cites John 3:3 as carrying such a meaning

5. LN 90.79 experience an event or state, the figurative extension of first entry (Jn 3:36

James Swanson, Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains: Greek (New Testament) (Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997).

citing a similar passage

John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

4. to experience: τ. θάνατον, Lk 2:26, He 11:5; ζωήν, Jo 3:36; τ. διαφθοράν, Ac 2:27. A manual Greek lexicon of the New testament

and greek commentary

He cannot see the kingdom of God (οὐ δυναται ἰδειν την βασιλειαν του θεου [ou dunatai idein tēn basileian tou theou]). To participate in it as in Luke 9:27. For this use of ἰδειν [idein] (second aorist active infinitive of ὁραω [horaō]) see John 8:51; Rev. 18:7.

A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Jn 3:3.

See” (ἰδεῖν aor. act. inf. of ὁράω; a complementary inf. after δύναται) here means “ ‘to experience, encounter, participate in,’ as, e.g., in ‘see death’ (8:51), ‘see life’ (3:36)” (Brown 130

Murray J. Harris, John (Exegetical Guide to the Greek New Testament; B&H Academic, 2015), 72.

So we have context, scripture from parallel use, scripture contradicting the idea of observation, lexical data and Greek commentary all supporting the idea of experiencing entering into

Strong's is a numbering system to reference particular Greek words, so your "you preach the words of your gods named Strongs" is folly.

The concept of "see" and "perceive" is the definition of the Greek word ἰδεῖν (Strong's 3708 - ὁράω (horaó) - to see, perceive, attend to).

Sorry that is not the only definition

3708. ὁράω horao, hor-ah´-o; properly, to stare at (compare 3700), i.e. (by implication) to discern clearly (physically or mentally); by extension, to attend to; by Hebraism, to experience; passively, to appear: — behold, perceive, see, take heed.
Strongs


You have no evidence at all to offer, nothing new, and nothing which rebuts what I have posted above

Why you persist in this is hard to see.

Your personal ad hominem is deleted