An Article on free will

[Kermos]

Utter nonsense

scripture is not the tradition of men and exegeting scripture is how one arrives at truth.

You ignore context and assume your interpretaion contrary to the facts

Sorry you assume an interpretation consistent with your theology while ignoring context and the harmony of scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Calvinists tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text

The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

In context its meaning is that which God requires of man

again

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Jesus tells them there is something they must do to obtain the food which last for eternal life

in context it is to believe on him

John 6:35–36 (NASB 2020) — 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe.

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

Again this establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God

John 6:29 (NASB 2020) — 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Jesus tells them they must believe

John 6:30 (NASB 2020) — 30 So they said to Him, “What then are You doing as a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work are You performing?

The jew understand him to be telling them they must believe.

An understanding confirmed by Christ as per verse 35 above

They must believe

An understanding confirmed by scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

You have addressed none of this and just assume an interpretation consistent with your theology

thus it is you who depend on the tradition of men

yet even those of your own tradition oppose your interpretation because they consider context

and soeven Calvinist commentator agree with this obvious reading


John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)



This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

Even the notes to the Geneva bible refute you


Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.


Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.

Yikes, you just called “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29) an abominable thing with your "Utter nonsense", and no Christian calls the Word of God "Utter nonsense".

Every Christian Believing In The Son Whom The Father Has Sent Is The Work Of God​

A voice from Heaven was heard, saying "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased. Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5), and we Christians hear Christ.

Let's examine the context of the people's word, and, more importantly, the Word of God speaks the Truth (John 14:6) without human interpretation.

Let’s review the exchange:

they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” So they said to Him, “What then do You do for a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work do You perform? Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread out of heaven to eat.’” Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.”
(John 6:28-33)
​

The people asked about their own work respecting salvation when they inquired “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God” (John 6:28), yet Christ rightly removed man’s work from anyplace respecting salvation when He responded “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

The people failed to understand, just like free-willian philosophers, that Lord Jesus removed the work of man from saving belief/faith with the Lord’s marvelous sayings of “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29). Do not be deceived, "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

The people followed up by asking/injecting the work of man, again, with “Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness” (John 6:31) in a manner that free-willian philosophers listen to the people instead of "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

The Lord shifts the focus from man’s purported control to God’s Sovereign control, this second time in the same exchange, with “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.”
(John 6:32-33). "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

Behold, the Word of God establishes that faith/belief is given by God without any contribution by man (John 6:29) and, in like manner, life is given by the bread of God without any contribution by man (John 6:32-33).

PRAISE JESUS FOR HIS LOVINGKINDNESS!!!

In Truth (John 14:6), the Christ of us Christians intensifies that God works man regarding saving faith/belief, not man working, but truly the Bread of Life (John 6:35) as exclusive Savior!

Free-willian Philosophers convey things like “They obviously understood jesus to be saying what God requires of you is that you believe” (the word of TomL, see post #1,818) about the people recorded in John 6:28-33 in order for the free-willian heart’s treasure (Matthew 15:16-19) to justify adulterating the Word of God resulting in “This is NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the traditions of man, see Matthew 15:9).

The Lord uses the continuing exchange to illumine the people's, and free-willian, ignorance. The Word of God is precise and pure “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29) - "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

This examination needs to expand to the larger passage of "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal" (John 6:27), but this would be incomplete without the intervening passage culminating with "Then they said to Him, 'Lord, always give us this bread.' Jesus said to them, 'I am the Bread of Life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst'" (John 6:34-35).

Do not be confused about the "who comes to Me" in John 6:35 because the Lord says "he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21), so we Christians work for God because God wrings our work/deeds out of us!

In John 6:27 and John 6:34-35, Jesus says He is our Christian's food (John 6:27), our Christian Bread of Life (John 6:35). "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

The Christ of us Christians says "I am the Living Bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh" (John 6:51).

We Christians work (John 6:27) for the Bread of Life (John 6:35) according to the Power of God (John 3:21), so we proclaim the glorious King of the Kingdom of God in the Power of God to the world; therefore, this "proclaiming" is working for the food enduring to eternal life (John 6:27). Christ gives Himself, the Bread of Life, to us Christians for we Christians partake in the food of the Body and Blood of Christ, so our wonderful Leader sustains and strengthens us for the works prepared for us beforehand by God to the Glory of God! God has set His seal on us Christians, that is, our seal is our very believing in the Son whom the Father has sent by the Grace of God for the Glory of God!

Praise the Lord for He explains our Christian work (John 6:27) is to eat the Bread of Life (John 6:35, John 6:51). Christ says "work" "for the food" (John 6:27) which means "work for Christ" as in fruit of the Spirit of the Living God (see bearing fruit in John 3:21 and John 15:5 and John 15:16 and Galatians 5:22-23), so Christ says not that believing in Christ is the work of man, so this means free-willian philosopher's "He told them there was a certain type of work they were to do and it was the work of faith so stop trying to twist the passage and say it wasn't so" (the word of Rockson regarding John 6:27, see post #1,847) is false according to the Word of God!

Free-willian Philosophers are under the delusion that "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal" (tthe Word of God, John 6:27) in their hearts translates to "Do not work for the food which perishes, but YOU HAVE THE ABILITY IN YOUR OWN INITIATIVE TO WORK for the food which endures to eternal life, SO YOU MUST CHOOSE WHETHER TO ACCEPT THE FOOD THAT the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal" (the word of free-willians) in spite of the Word of God sayings “And why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right” (Luke 12:57) and
“you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19).

Free-willian's hearts even subtract "which the Son of Man will give to you" (John 6:27) about the food for which Jesus says "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life" (John 6:27). Jesus clearly states the righteous work of man is Fruit of the Spirit because the food is given by God to man which is another declaration about the exclusive power of God in the salvation of man. A crucial concept established by Jesus in John 6:27 is that the only people to receive Jesus' food are the people to whom Jesus gives the food, but free-willian philosophy ends up with people in hell who are failures of "the food which endures to eternal life" (John 6:27). This paragraph's explanation is all in the recorded Word of God in John 6:27 without stepping to another verse. "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

The Word in John 6:27 refers to the man's work which is truly the act of God in man; on the other hand, the Word in John 6:29 refers to man's belief which is truly the act of God in man.

In the first moment (John 6:27), Lord Jesus explains the outward evidence of us Christians controlled by our loving Father in Heaven, and in the second moment (John 6:29), Jesus explains the inward event of us Christians controlled by our loving Father in Heaven, and this Father declares "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased. Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE BELOVED SON!!!

 

[TomL]

Yikes, you just called “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29) an abominable thing with your "Utter nonsense", and no Christian calls the Word of God "Utter nonsense".

Every Christian Believing In The Son Whom The Father Has Sent Is The Work Of God​

A voice from Heaven was heard, saying "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased. Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5), and we Christians hear Christ.

Let's examine the context of the people's word, and, more importantly, the Word of God speaks the Truth (John 14:6) without human interpretation.

Let’s review the exchange:

​

they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” So they said to Him, “What then do You do for a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work do You perform? Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread out of heaven to eat.’” Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.”​

(John 6:28-33)​

​

The people asked about their own work respecting salvation when they inquired “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God” (John 6:28), yet Christ rightly removed man’s work from anyplace respecting salvation when He responded “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

The people failed to understand, just like free-willian philosophers, that Lord Jesus removed the work of man from saving belief/faith with the Lord’s marvelous sayings of “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29). Do not be deceived, "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

The people followed up by asking/injecting the work of man, again, with “Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness” (John 6:31) in a manner that free-willian philosophers listen to the people instead of "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

The Lord shifts the focus from man’s purported control to God’s Sovereign control, this second time in the same exchange, with “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.”
(John 6:32-33). "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

Behold, the Word of God establishes that faith/belief is given by God without any contribution by man (John 6:29) and, in like manner, life is given by the bread of God without any contribution by man (John 6:32-33).

PRAISE JESUS FOR HIS LOVINGKINDNESS!!!

In Truth (John 14:6), the Christ of us Christians intensifies that God works man regarding saving faith/belief, not man working, but truly the Bread of Life (John 6:35) as exclusive Savior!

Free-willian Philosophers convey things like “They obviously understood jesus to be saying what God requires of you is that you believe” (the word of TomL, see post #1,818) about the people recorded in John 6:28-33 in order for the free-willian heart’s treasure (Matthew 15:16-19) to justify adulterating the Word of God resulting in “This is NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the traditions of man, see Matthew 15:9).

The Lord uses the continuing exchange to illumine the people's, and free-willian, ignorance. The Word of God is precise and pure “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29) - "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

This examination needs to expand to the larger passage of "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal" (John 6:27), but this would be incomplete without the intervening passage culminating with "Then they said to Him, 'Lord, always give us this bread.' Jesus said to them, 'I am the Bread of Life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst'" (John 6:34-35).

Do not be confused about the "who comes to Me" in John 6:35 because the Lord says "he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21), so we Christians work for God because God wrings our work/deeds out of us!

In John 6:27 and John 6:34-35, Jesus says He is our Christian's food (John 6:27), our Christian Bread of Life (John 6:35). "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

The Christ of us Christians says "I am the Living Bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh" (John 6:51).

We Christians work (John 6:27) for the Bread of Life (John 6:35) according to the Power of God (John 3:21), so we proclaim the glorious King of the Kingdom of God in the Power of God to the world; therefore, this "proclaiming" is working for the food enduring to eternal life (John 6:27). Christ gives Himself, the Bread of Life, to us Christians for we Christians partake in the food of the Body and Blood of Christ, so our wonderful Leader sustains and strengthens us for the works prepared for us beforehand by God to the Glory of God! God has set His seal on us Christians, that is, our seal is our very believing in the Son whom the Father has sent by the Grace of God for the Glory of God!

Praise the Lord for He explains our Christian work (John 6:27) is to eat the Bread of Life (John 6:35, John 6:51). Christ says "work" "for the food" (John 6:27) which means "work for Christ" as in fruit of the Spirit of the Living God (see bearing fruit in John 3:21 and John 15:5 and John 15:16 and Galatians 5:22-23), so Christ says not that believing in Christ is the work of man, so this means free-willian philosopher's "He told them there was a certain type of work they were to do and it was the work of faith so stop trying to twist the passage and say it wasn't so" (the word of Rockson regarding John 6:27, see post #1,847) is false according to the Word of God!

Free-willian Philosophers are under the delusion that "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal" (tthe Word of God, John 6:27) in their hearts translates to "Do not work for the food which perishes, but YOU HAVE THE ABILITY IN YOUR OWN INITIATIVE TO WORK for the food which endures to eternal life, SO YOU MUST CHOOSE WHETHER TO ACCEPT THE FOOD THAT the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal" (the word of free-willians) in spite of the Word of God sayings “And why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right” (Luke 12:57) and
“you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19).

Free-willian's hearts even subtract "which the Son of Man will give to you" (John 6:27) about the food for which Jesus says "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life" (John 6:27). Jesus clearly states the righteous work of man is Fruit of the Spirit because the food is given by God to man which is another declaration about the exclusive power of God in the salvation of man. A crucial concept established by Jesus in John 6:27 is that the only people to receive Jesus' food are the people to whom Jesus gives the food, but free-willian philosophy ends up with people in hell who are failures of "the food which endures to eternal life" (John 6:27). This paragraph's explanation is all in the recorded Word of God in John 6:27 without stepping to another verse. "Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

The Word in John 6:27 refers to the man's work which is truly the act of God in man; on the other hand, the Word in John 6:29 refers to man's belief which is truly the act of God in man.

In the first moment (John 6:27), Lord Jesus explains the outward evidence of us Christians controlled by our loving Father in Heaven, and in the second moment (John 6:29), Jesus explains the inward event of us Christians controlled by our loving Father in Heaven, and this Father declares "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased. Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE BELOVED SON!!!

Nope I called your repeat rejection of context nonsense

Utter nonsense

scripture is not the tradition of men and exegeting scripture is how one arrives at truth.

You ignore context and assume your interpretaion contrary to the facts

Sorry you assume an interpretation consistent with your theology while ignoring context and the harmony of scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Calvinists tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text

The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

In context its meaning is that which God requires of man

again

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Jesus tells them there is something they must do to obtain the food which last for eternal life

in context it is to believe on him

John 6:35–36 (NASB 2020) — 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe.

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

Again this establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God

John 6:29 (NASB 2020) — 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Jesus tells them they must believe

John 6:30 (NASB 2020) — 30 So they said to Him, “What then are You doing as a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work are You performing?

The jew understand him to be telling them they must believe.

An understanding confirmed by Christ as per verse 35 above

They must believe

An understanding confirmed by scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

You have addressed none of this and just assume an interpretation consistent with your theology

thus it is you who depend on the tradition of men

yet even those of your own tradition oppose your interpretation because they consider context

and soeven Calvinist commentator agree with this obvious reading


John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)



This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

Even the notes to the Geneva bible refute you


Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.


Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.

you simply without evidence asserted

The Word in John 6:27 refers to the man's work which is truly the act of God in man; on the other hand, the Word in John 6:29 refers to man's belief which is truly the act of God in man.

There is nothing in verse 27 which speaks of the acts of God in man

You have eisegetically inserted it into the passage just as you did the following

In the first moment (John 6:27), Lord Jesus explains the outward evidence of us Christians controlled by our loving Father in Heaven, and in the second moment (John 6:29), Jesus explains the inward event of us Christians controlled by our loving Father in Heaven, and this Father declares "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased. Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

reading Matthew 17:5 into john when it by no means speaks of control

Rather than exegesis, you offer only the eisegesis of your theology

 

[TomL]

Behold, Lord Jesus Christ's bone chilling words for people who exalt the traditions of men "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48).

Duh the verse does nothing at all to support your theology

BTW it is preceded by

John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.


refuting your doctrine of limited atonement hello

Behold, Lord Jesus Christ's wonderful sayings for us of whom God gives Life "It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life" (John 6:63).

Read the context

John 6:49–63 (KJV 1900) — 49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. 52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. 59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. 60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? 61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

It has to do with his words not being literal but figurative

BTW note

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you

It refers to believing and coming to Christ else you have no life in you

Got that! Your belief God makse the spiritually dead alive apart from faith in Christ is refuted

This should settle the matter once and for all, but it won't. Free-willers believe the flesh is capable of doing the work God requires.

Um the passage refuted your theology

 

[Kermos]

sorry you did nothing to refute the context or the expert commentary

Spurgeon contradicts your understanding

Joh_6:29. That ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
This is the point. You would like me to work miracles. You would be glad to have very wonderful, mysterious experience, but this is the thing you ought to seek after — the grandest, greatest thing that you can have, :’ that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”

as did Calvin and Barne's

John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)



This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Calvinists tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text



Kermos said:



The people failed to understand, just like you, that Lord Jesus removed the work of man from saving belief/faith with the Lord’s marvelous sayings of “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29).


There you go with your unsupported assumptions

The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

In context its meaning is that which God requires of man

Repeating the same failed claims changes nothing

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Jesus tells them there is something they must do to obtain the food which last for eternal life

in context it is to believe on him

John 6:35–36 (NASB 2020) — 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe.

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

Again this establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God

John 6:29 (NASB 2020) — 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Jesus tells them they must believe

John 6:30 (NASB 2020) — 30 So they said to Him, “What then are You doing as a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work are You performing?

The jew understand him to be telling them they must believe.

An understanding confirmed by Christ as per verse 35 above

They must believe

An understanding confirmed by scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

even Calvinist commentator agree with this obvious reading


John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)



This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.



Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.

What precisely is it that God waits for us to do, and will be satisfied with our doing? To which Jesus, always ready to meet the sincere inquirer, gives the explicit answer (ver. 29) τοῦτό ἐστι … ἐκεῖνος. If God has sent a messenger it is because there is need of such interposition, and the first duty must be to listen believingly to this messenger.

Marcus Dods, The Gospel of St. John (New York: George H. Doran Company, n.d.), 752.

The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.

Even the notes to the Geneva bible refute you


Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.


Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.

Mindlessly repeating your view does not negate what the scripture clearly shows

You are "Mindlessly repeating your view" (from your closing paragraph) promoting the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9), and to be very specific Your heart's authority, your Lord Alford, wrote "The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God" regarding John 6:29, so your Lord Alford wickedly sins against Lord Jesus by bludgeoning the Word of God into "This is NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (TomL 6:29) in your Free-willian Leader Alford's heart (the man whom you very frequently quote), so your free-willian tradition of men (Matthew 15:9) is clearly evident because the Authority for us Christians, my Lord Jesus Christ says “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

Your wishful thinking of "you did nothing to refute the context or the expert commentary" is your traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) because Lord Jesus proclaimed the Truth (John 14:6) long before your "expert commentary" composers of "Alford" and/or "Calvin" were born - those men whose words you exalt - those men whom your heart idolizes above the Word of God - just look at the multitude of posts in this thread alone in which you preach the word of "Alford" and your exalted leader "Calvin", even you taking their traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) as your own by sheer force of your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) plethora of posts.

Your heart's treasure of "People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us" (the words of Calvinist TomL) adulterates John 6:29 into “This is NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the word of Calvinist TomL).

Your "The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28" (TomL post quoted above) is you elevating a mere question of men of "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God" (John 6:27) into a tradition of man that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9) by your way of redefining the work of God (the Word of God, John 6:29) into a man-made thing of "NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN" (TomL 6:29) resulting in the abomination of "This is NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (TomL 6:29).

Every person loses who contradicts our Christian Head, the Christ who says man believing in Lord Jesus is the work of Almighty God with:

​

This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent​

(the Word of God, John 6:29)​

​

so for any person to claim that man manipulates his own belief to point at Jesus - then that man is anti-truth.

Your spirit's "God births those who believe and receive the Son" (proof post #2,082) is out of accord with all these wonderful Apostolic Testimony of Ephesians 2:8-10, John 1:10-13, and John 6:29:

​

by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work​

(Ephesians 2:8-10)​

​

so Paul is in accord with the Word of God saying God causes man to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

And Paul is in agreement with the Apostle John who says that man's belief/faith is caused by the Father as a result of God birthing man anew with:

​

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him, but as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God​

(John 1:10-13)​

​

so John says God causes man to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE ONE TRUE GOD WHO MAJESTICALLY SAVES MAN!!!

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Spurgeon contradicts your understanding
as did Calvin and Barne's
Marcus Dods, The Gospel of St. John (New York: George H. Doran Company, n.d.), 752.

Even the notes to the Geneva bible refute you

Mindlessly repeating your view does not negate what the scripture clearly shows

You mindlessly repeat the views of Spurgeon, Calvin, Barnes, Dods, and Geneva Bible notes. Just like your twin, @civic. I love Spurgeon, but I still take the word of God over anything Spurgeon said.

Great minds talk about ideas. Average minds talk about events. Small minds talk about people.

 

[synergy]

Great minds talk about ideas. Average minds talk about events. Small minds talk about people.

What about people's idea of events? Or events that transpire from people's ideas? Where does that fit in?

 

[TomL]

You mindlessly repeat the views of Spurgeon, Calvin, Barnes, Dods, and Geneva Bible notes. Just like your twin, @civic. I love Spurgeon, but I still take the word of God over anything Spurgeon said.

Great minds talk about ideas. Average minds talk about events. Small minds talk about people.

Um You mean after I exegeted context which you just ignored and merely gave your own opinion

 

[TomL]

You are "Mindlessly repeating your view" (from your closing paragraph) promoting the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9), and to be very specific Your heart's authority, your Lord Alford, wrote "The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God" regarding John 6:29, so your Lord Alford wickedly sins against Lord Jesus by bludgeoning the Word of God into "This is NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (TomL 6:29) in your Free-willian Leader Alford's heart (the man whom you very frequently quote), so your free-willian tradition of men (Matthew 15:9) is clearly evident because the Authority for us Christians, my Lord Jesus Christ says “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

Your wishful thinking of "you did nothing to refute the context or the expert commentary" is your traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) because Lord Jesus proclaimed the Truth (John 14:6) long before your "expert commentary" composers of "Alford" and/or "Calvin" were born - those men whose words you exalt - those men whom your heart idolizes above the Word of God - just look at the multitude of posts in this thread alone in which you preach the word of "Alford" and your exalted leader "Calvin", even you taking their traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) as your own by sheer force of your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) plethora of posts.

Your heart's treasure of "People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us" (the words of Calvinist TomL) adulterates John 6:29 into “This is NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (the word of Calvinist TomL).

Your "The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28" (TomL post quoted above) is you elevating a mere question of men of "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God" (John 6:27) into a tradition of man that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9) by your way of redefining the work of God (the Word of God, John 6:29) into a man-made thing of "NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN" (TomL 6:29) resulting in the abomination of "This is NOT the work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (TomL 6:29).

Every person loses who contradicts our Christian Head, the Christ who says man believing in Lord Jesus is the work of Almighty God with:

​

This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent​

(the Word of God, John 6:29)​

​

so for any person to claim that man manipulates his own belief to point at Jesus - then that man is anti-truth.

Your spirit's "God births those who believe and receive the Son" (proof post #2,082) is out of accord with all these wonderful Apostolic Testimony of Ephesians 2:8-10, John 1:10-13, and John 6:29:

​

by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work​

(Ephesians 2:8-10)​

​

so Paul is in accord with the Word of God saying God causes man to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

And Paul is in agreement with the Apostle John who says that man's belief/faith is caused by the Father as a result of God birthing man anew with:

​

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him, but as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God​

(John 1:10-13)​

​

so John says God causes man to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE ONE TRUE GOD WHO MAJESTICALLY SAVES MAN!!!

Wrong I went through the context showing how it supports my view then i quoted Calvinists and others supporting it

sorry you did nothing to refute the context or the expert commentary

Spurgeon contradicts your understanding

Joh_6:29. That ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
This is the point. You would like me to work miracles. You would be glad to have very wonderful, mysterious experience, but this is the thing you ought to seek after — the grandest, greatest thing that you can have, :’ that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”

as did Calvin and Barne's

John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)



This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Calvinists tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text



Kermos said:



The people failed to understand, just like you, that Lord Jesus removed the work of man from saving belief/faith with the Lord’s marvelous sayings of “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29).


There you go with your unsupported assumptions

The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

In context its meaning is that which God requires of man

Repeating the same failed claims changes nothing

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Jesus tells them there is something they must do to obtain the food which last for eternal life

in context it is to believe on him

John 6:35–36 (NASB 2020) — 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe.

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

Again this establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God

John 6:29 (NASB 2020) — 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Jesus tells them they must believe

John 6:30 (NASB 2020) — 30 So they said to Him, “What then are You doing as a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work are You performing?

The jew understand him to be telling them they must believe.

An understanding confirmed by Christ as per verse 35 above

They must believe

An understanding confirmed by scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

even Calvinist commentator agree with this obvious reading


John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)



This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.



Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.

What precisely is it that God waits for us to do, and will be satisfied with our doing? To which Jesus, always ready to meet the sincere inquirer, gives the explicit answer (ver. 29) τοῦτό ἐστι … ἐκεῖνος. If God has sent a messenger it is because there is need of such interposition, and the first duty must be to listen believingly to this messenger.

Marcus Dods, The Gospel of St. John (New York: George H. Doran Company, n.d.), 752.

The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.

Even the notes to the Geneva bible refute you


Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.


Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.

Mindlessly repeating your view does not negate what the scripture clearly shows

 

[Kermos]

If you were able to read in context with comprehension you would easily observe your the falsity of your claim. You would also see that the text of john John 3:3-8 says nothing at all about believing. As typical your theology must redefine terms to support itself

John 3:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


5. see someth.=experience someth. (Ps 26:13); good days 1 Pt 3:10 (Ps 33:13; τ. βασιλείαν J 3:3. θάνατον see death=die Lk 2:26; Hb 11:5 (cf. Ps 88:49; Anth. Pal. 6, 230 ἰδεῖν Ἀίδην); grief Rv 18:7 (cf. 1 Macc 13:3 τὰς στενοχωρίας; Eccl 6:6 ἀγαθωσύνην). τὴν διαφθοράν experience decay=decay Ac 2:27, 31; 13:35-7 (all Ps 15:10); τ. ἡμέραν (Soph., Oed. R. 831; Aristoph., Pax 345; Polyb. 10, 4, 7; 32, 10, 9; Ael. Aristid. 32 p. 601 D.; Lam 2:16; Jos., Ant. 6, 305): τὴν ἡμέραν τ. ἐμήν J 8:56; μίαν τῶν ἡμερῶν Lk 17:22

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 221.



4. to experience ⇔ see — to experience something, conceived of as being present during the experience so as to view it

Rick Brannan, ed., Lexham Research Lexicon of the Greek New Testament (Lexham Research Lexicons; Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2020).

As seen the context of John 3:3 is speaking of experiencing not believing as you falsely claimed

Observed this well known Calvinist commentary

cannot see—can have no part in (just as one is said to “see life,” “see death,” &c.).

Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset, and David Brown, Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (vol. 2; Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997), 131.

And this Calvinist Greek Scholar

He cannot see the kingdom of God (οὐ δυναται ἰδειν την βασιλειαν του θεου [ou dunatai idein tēn basileian tou theou]). To participate in it as in Luke 9:27. For this use of ἰδειν [idein] (second aorist active infinitive of ὁραω [horaō]) see John 8:51; Rev. 18:7.

A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Jn 3:3.

And Calvin himself

To SEE the kingdom of God is of the same meaning as to ENTER INTO the kingdom of God, as we shall immediately perceive from the context

John Calvin and William Pringle, Commentary on the Gospel according to John (vol. 1; Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2010), 108.

Also other verses using the word see

Luke 2:26And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord’s Christ.
John 3:36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 8:51Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
Heb 11:5By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

It is clear an honest handling of this word shows it pertains to experience, to enter, to obtain

Only by mistranslating and changing the meaning of words can you hold to your doctrine

I analyzed your post, TomL, and here are the findings:

1. you preach the words of your gods named "Arndt, Bauer, Danker, Gingrich, Brannan, Jamieson, Fausset, Brown, Robertson", and "Calvin" as your heart's treasure (whether your heart breaks their context or not).
2. your heart's "As seen the context of John 3:3 is speaking of experiencing not believing as you falsely claimed" is you adulterating the Word of God from the wonderful "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (the Word of God, John 3:3) into your abomination as based on the word of your Lord Arndt "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot experience the kingdom of God" (the word of TomL per his A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, William Arndt et al., page 221).
3. your heart's "As seen the context of John 3:3 is speaking of experiencing not believing as you falsely claimed" is you breaking the context of the consecutive sequence of "see/perceive/believe" as evidenced in the specific mention of John 3:3-8 preceding John 3:9-15 in that which God caused me to write of "In John 3:3-8, the Word of God declares that God must first cause a person to be born of God in order for a person to see/perceive/believe King Jesus of the Kingdom of God, and the Word of God immediately proceeds in John 3:9-15 to declare the resultant effect for the born of God person which is to believe in Christ"; moreover, Lord Jesus had me continue "The implication of this for John 3:16 is that God causes the born of God person to believe in Christ" illuminating that born again and believe are distinct yet related.
4. The Greek word ἰδεῖν (Strong's 3708 - ὁράω (horaó) - to see, perceive, attend to) accurately translates to see/perceive just as God had me write regarding "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3); in contrast, your prophecy of "It is clear an honest handling of this word shows it pertains to experience" for the Greek word ἰδεῖν (Strong's 3708 - ὁράω (horaó) - to see, perceive, attend to) is absent from the definition of the Greek word ἰδεῖν concept, so your prophecy (1 John 4:1) excluding "perceive" in John 3:3 is your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) own interpretation a.k.a. false prophecy.

In closing point #4, above, we see/perceive that your closing paragraph "Only by mistranslating and changing the meaning of words can you hold to your doctrine" is false that you wrote against the writing that God caused me to compose.

In fact, your mistranslation of "experience" for the Greek word ἰδεῖν (Strong's 3708 - ὁράω (horaó) - to see, perceive, attend to) means that your "Only by mistranslating and changing the meaning of words can you hold to your doctrine" applies to you.

The hearts of Free-willian Philosophers bludgeon the Word of God recorded in John 3:16 by wickedly isolating this Word of God from his larger contiguous discourse in John 3:3-21 which not only initiates with God's control over the salvation of man but it also culminates with God's control over the salvation and sanctification of man with "he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21).

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE ONE BELIEF THAT SAVES!!!

 

[Rockson]

The hearts of Free-willian Philosophers bludgeon the Word of God recorded in John 3:16 by wickedly isolating this Word of God from his larger contiguous discourse in John 3:3-21 which not only initiates with God's control.......

So tell me you don't even believe a person not a Calvinist is even saved do you? Or do you? Just seems when you use terms that people are doing things wickedly it hardly makes me consider that you do. Perhaps you can explain yourself. I've seen various debates with big star Calvinists. Never seen them use this type of rhetoric.

 

[TomL]

I analyzed your post, TomL, and here are the findings:

1. you preach the words of your gods named "Arndt, Bauer, Danker, Gingrich, Brannan, Jamieson, Fausset, Brown, Robertson", and "Calvin" as your heart's treasure (whether your heart breaks their context or not).

Utter foolishness. Words must be defined before scripture can be properly interpreted. You simple define words to suit your theology much as cults do

example

John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Does it mean to observe or to experience. Notice have everlasting life is contrary to not seeing life

1. your heart's "As seen the context of John 3:3 is speaking of experiencing not believing as you falsely claimed" is you adulterating the Word of God from the wonderful "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (the Word of God, John 3:3) into your abomination as based on the word of your Lord Arndt "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot experience the kingdom of God" (the word of TomL per his A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, William Arndt et al., page 221).

There you go doing exactly what i stated defining words in a matter you see fit rather than taking pains to define them

You do not even examine context for further clues

John 3:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Two verse later we see the idea is to enter

1. your heart's "As seen the context of John 3:3 is speaking of experiencing not believing as you falsely claimed" is you breaking the context of the consecutive sequence of "see/perceive/believe" as evidenced in the specific mention of John 3:3-8 preceding John 3:9-15 in that which God caused me to write of "In John 3:3-8, the Word of God declares that God must first cause a person to be born of God in order for a person to see/perceive/believe King Jesus of the Kingdom of God, and the Word of God immediately proceeds in John 3:9-15 to declare the resultant effect for the born of God person which is to believe in Christ"; moreover, Lord Jesus had me continue "The implication of this for John 3:16 is that God causes the born of God person to believe in Christ" illuminating that born again and believe are distinct yet related.

You got it backwards

regeneration, the impartation of life follows after faith not before

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Believe then have life

John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Believe then have life

John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Come to Christ in faith to have life

John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Unless you believe and come to Christ you can have no life

You reverse the scriptural order

1. The Greek word ἰδεῖν (Strong's 3708 - ὁράω (horaó) - to see, perceive, attend to) accurately translates to see/perceive just as God had me write regarding "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3); in contrast, your prophecy of "It is clear an honest handling of this word shows it pertains to experience" for the Greek word ἰδεῖν (Strong's 3708 - ὁράω (horaó) - to see, perceive, attend to) is absent from the definition of the Greek word ἰδεῖν concept, so your prophecy (1 John 4:1) excluding "perceive" in John 3:3 is your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) own interpretation a.k.a. false prophecy.

following your method

you preach the words of your gods named Strongs as your heart's treasure (whether your heart breaks their context or not)

but here is Strongs expanded

1492 οἶδα [eido, oida /i·do/] v. A root word; TDNT 5:116; TDNTA 673; GK 3857; 666 occurrences; AV translates as “know” 282 times, “cannot tell + 3756” eight times, “know how” seven times, “wist” six times, translated miscellaneously 19 times, “see” 314 times, “behold” 16 times, “look” five times, “perceive” five times, “vr see” three times, and “vr know” once. 1 to see. 1A to perceive with the eyes. 1B to perceive by any of the senses. 1C to perceive, notice, discern, discover. 1D to see. 1D1 i.e. to turn the eyes, the mind, the attention to anything. 1D2 to pay attention, observe. 1D3 to see about something. 1D31 i.e. to ascertain what must be done about it. 1D4 to inspect, examine. 1D5 to look at, behold. 1E to experience any state or condition. 1F to see i.e. have an interview with, to visit. 2 to know. 2A to know of anything. 2B to know, i.e. get knowledge of, understand, perceive. 2B1 of any fact. 2B2 the force and meaning of something which has definite meaning. 2B3 to know how, to be skilled in. 2C to have regard for one, cherish, pay attention to (1Th. 5:12). Additional Information: For synonyms see entries 1097, ginosko; 1987, epistamai; and 4920, suniemi.See entry 5825 for comparison of synonyms.

James Strong, Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon (Woodside Bible Fellowship, 1995).

You are completely arbitrary in your approach. It is fine for you to employ a narrow lexical gloss but to use any other lexicon is worshiping them as God's

That is an extremely disingenuous methodology

In closing point #4, above, we see/perceive that your closing paragraph "Only by mistranslating and changing the meaning of words can you hold to your doctrine" is false that you wrote against the writing that God caused me to compose.

Sorry context and the weight of all the lexical data refutes your claim

In fact, your mistranslation of "experience" for the Greek word ἰδεῖν (Strong's 3708 - ὁράω (horaó) - to see, perceive, attend to) means that your "Only by mistranslating and changing the meaning of words can you hold to your doctrine" applies to you.

Sorry but you beg the question assuming your limited strongs meaning is correct and all other Lexicons wrong

even then - this is strongs from biblehub

ἰδεῖν (idein)
Verb - Aorist Infinitive Active
Strong's Greek 3708: Properly, to stare at, i.e. to discern clearly; by extension, to attend to; by Hebraism, to experience; passively, to appear.

You selectively apply the data. Assuming what you desire and ignoring everything contrary to it

And in ignorance you fail to realize it is context which determines the meaning and context does not support you

John 3:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[Kermos]

Your arguments have been handily refuted


We have already seen the lexicons do not support you

e. take up, receive—α. τινὰ someone εἰς into (Wsd 8:18) lit. εἰς τὸ πλοῖον take someone (up) into the boat J 6:21. εἰς οἰκίαν receive someone into one’s house 2J 10. εἰς τὰ ἴδια into his own home J 19:27. Receive someone in the sense of recognizing his authority J 1:12; 5:43a, b; 13:20a, b, c, d

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 464.

BADG refuted you mentioning john 1:12 te verse underdiscussion

e. take up, receive—α. τινὰ someone εἰς into (Wsd 8:18) lit. εἰς τὸ πλοῖον take someone (up) into the boat J 6:21. εἰς οἰκίαν receive someone into one’s house 2J 10. εἰς τὰ ἴδια into his own home J 19:27. Receive someone in the sense of recognizing his authority J 1:12; 5:43a, b; 13:20a, b, c, d

as did

(E) To take up with a person, i.e., to receive him as a friend or guest into one’s house or society, equivalent to déchomai (1209), to accept. (1) Generally (John 6:21, “into the boat” [a.t.]; 19:27, “that disciple took her unto his own home”; 2 John 1:10, “receive him not into your house”). Metaphorically of a teacher, to receive, acknowledge, embrace and follow his instructions (John 1:12; 5:43; 13:20; 14:17); of doctrine, to embrace, admit, e.g., the word (Matt. 13:20; Mark 4:16); the witness (John 3:11, 32

Spiros Zodhiates, The Complete Word Study Dictionary: New Testament (Chattanooga, TN: AMG Publishers, 2000).

he also addresses john 1:12



to receive (person) — to willingly permit access to one’s company. See also παραδέχομαι, προσδέχομαι. Related Topic: Receive.
Jn 5:43 καὶ οὐ λαμβάνετέ με·
Jn 13:20 ὁ λαμβάνων ἄν τινα πέμψω
Jn 13:20 πέμψω ἐμὲ λαμβάνει, ὁ
Jn 13:20 ὁ δὲ ἐμὲ λαμβάνων
Jn 13:20 ὁ δὲ ἐμὲ λαμβάνων λαμβάνει τὸν πέμψαντά με.
Rick Brannan, ed., Lexham Research Lexicon of the Greek New Testament (Lexham Research Lexicons; Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2020).

BTW those that receive him

note receive is in the active voice so it is something man does

not something in which he is passive as your unreferenced article falsely seems to indicate

But here is where you really go off the rails

You basically argue that those who receive Christ indwelling are given the right to be born again

newsflash if Christ is indwelling them they are already born again

How does one logically receive Christ before being given that right

Your interpretation makes no sense

and the reason it makes no sense is because your interpretation is not driven by exegesis but the needs of your theology

excursion on child of God

John 1:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

One becomes a child of God by being born again

(5) The “children of God.”—Those who are “begotten of God” are ipso facto “children of God” (tékna theoú, Jn 1:12; 11:52; 1 Jn 3:1, 2, 10; 5:2).1

1 R. Law, “Johannine, Theology, The,” ed. James Orr et al., The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia (Chicago: The Howard-Severance Company, 1915), 1703.



CHILDREN OF GOD. Persons in this category are only those who of the fallen race are regenerated as a result of faith in Christ1

1 Merrill F. Unger, “Children of God,” ed. R.K. Harrison, The New Unger’s Bible Dictionary (Chicago: Moody Press, 1988).

Children of God (tekna theou). In the full spiritual sense, not as mere offspring of God true of all men (Acts 17:28). Paul's phrase huioi theou (Galatians 3:26) for believers, used also by Jesus of the pure in heart (Matthew 5:9), does not occur in John's Gospel (but in Rev. 21:7). It is possible that John prefers ta tekna tou theou for the spiritual children of God whether Jew or Gentile (John 11:52) because of the community of nature (teknon from root tek-, to beget). But one cannot follow Westcott in insisting on "adoption" as Paul's reason for the use of huioi since Jesus uses huioi theou in Matthew 5:9. Clearly the idea of regeneration is involved here as in John 3:3.
Word Pictures in the New Testament.

Vincent agrees
Sons (τέκνα)
Rev., more correctly, children. Son is υἱός. Τέκνον, child (τίκτω, to bring forth), denotes a relation based on community of nature
Word Studies in the New Testament.

τέκνα θ. γενέσθαι] The spiritual life owes its beginning to a birth from above, ch. 3:3–7. And this birth is owing to the Holy Spirit of God; so that this is equivalent to saying, ‘As many as received Him, to them gave He His Holy Spirit.’ And we find that it was so: see Acts 10:44.
Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 684.

However before receiving that right one must receive Christ or believe on his name as the verse states and you ignored

The act of regeneration is not man's doing

The act of receiving christ is man's - even those that believe on his name

Note both receive and believe are in the active voice

it is something man must do

John 1:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
ignoring the lexical data, and context is not the way to ascertain truth


Lets get the relationship right it those who first receive Christ that are given the right to become children of god or born again

or as Paul puts it in another verse you ignore

Galatians 3:26 (KJV 1900) — 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Faith is the instrumental cause of one becoming a child of God - being born again


Again believe on his name defines what it means to receive Christ

A key piece you ignore

As you have ignored the overall context of scripture, the immediate context, Lexical citations

and theological resources

According to your heart, your gods refuted the Word of God - the comments of your gods are NOT the Word of God.

"RECEIVE" DEFINITION BY EXAMPLE:

The man received a punch to his face dislocating his septum - not by choice - but in the fury of his assailant's surprise attack.

The pedestrian received a series of traumatic injuries - not by choice - but as a result of the car jumping the curb.

A lover receives a love letter - not by choice - but in gladness.

Receive means a thing that unavoidably came in from a source to a recipient - receive is not a choice like accept - receive just happens.

"RECEIVE" DEFINITION BY DICTIONARY:

1. TRANSITIVE VERB When you receive something, you get it after someone gives it to you or sends it to you. (Collins COBUILD English Usage (c) HarperCollins Publishers 1992, 2004, 2011, 2012)

There is a keyword in the definition, which is "after".

The Greek word ἔλαβον (Strong's 2983 - lambano/elabon - to take, receive) lexicon definition is "receive", and the specific instance of ἔλαβον used by the Apostle John in John 1:12 is an active indicative aorist verb in the third person; therefore, the word ἔλαβον conveys the active concept of "joyfully" by the recipient of "receive" with the "receive" being initiated and caused by the the source, not the recipient, but truly God is the cause (John 1:12-13), so John conveys "joyfully receive" is the active meaning for ἔλαβον.

In the Greek lexicon etymology, "to be seized by" is found for ἔλαβον (Strong's 2983 - lambano/elabon - to take, receive).

"RECEIVE" USAGE IN SCRIPTURE:

The Apostle John wrote "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13).

The Apostle John wrote receiving Christ is a result of being born of God in John 1:12-13.

The Apostle John wrote receiving Christ is not an act of the will of man in John 1:12-13.

The ones who received Christ are the ones "who were born" "of God".

Let's follow John's blessed chain linking these people:

• John starts with the full population of the planet "He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him" (John 1:10) as he builds toward the source of holiness which is "born of God" (John 1:13).
• John narrows the population to Israel only "He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him" (John 1:11).
• John further narrows the focus to a sub-population of Israel "but as many as received Him" (John 1:12)
• John equates the population of "but as many as received Him" (John 1:12) with the population of "children of God" (John 1:12) as he builds toward the source of holiness, that is, "born of God" (John 1:13).
• John further equates the population of "children of God" (John 1:12) with the population of "believe in His name" increasing tempo about the source of holiness being"born of God" (John 1:13).
• John arrives at the source of holiness for every single one of us saints (holy ones) which is being "born of God" (John 1:13).

John's Good Message narrows the focus then he further narrows the focus then he further narrows the focus then further narrowing onward, so we can expand the focus starting with John's primary foundational point moving toward the secondary larger point and then the tertiary broader point and so on.

John's primary foundational point is "born of God" (John 1:13, John 3:3-8) which results in John's secondary point of "believe in His name" (John 1:12, John 6:29) and "children of God" (John 1:12, John 3:3-8) and "many as received Him" (John 1:12, John 9) which has implications for John's tertiary point "His own did not receive Him" (John 1:11) which arrives at John's opening, broadest point which is the fact that "born of God" (John 1:13, John 3:3-8) does not include everybody in "the world" (John 1:10).

John has the "born of God" as the first and primary position.

Each of these are exactly the same people:

• "many as received Him"
• "children of God"
• "believe in His name"
• "born of God"

See that John explicitly excludes "the will of man" as the cause for all of these.

John 1:12-13 shows that you cannot cause yourself to receive Jesus.

John 1:12-13 shows that God causes people to receive Jesus.

John 1:12-13 shows that you cannot cause yourself to believe in Jesus.

John 1:12-13 shows that God causes people to believe in Jesus.

Again, here is the passage:

"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13).

"Peter [said] to them, 'Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.'" (Acts 2:38-39, this was Peter's response after the people who were pierced to the heart by Peter's proclamation of the Word of God inquired "Brethren, what shall we do" in Acts 2:14-37)

Peter issued the command "think differently from now on" (repent) and the command "be immersed in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins" and here is where "receive" comes in, "you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" which is an act of God.

The word "receive" means "unavoidably enters"; on the other hand, the word "accept" means "allowed to enter".

The work of "accept" is specifically disallowed in the passage with "nor of the will of man" because man causes not man to be "born of God" nor man causes to "believe in His name", whom are the "children of God", nor man causes to be the "many as received Him" (John 1:12-13).

The grammatical sense of the word "receive" indicates Christ "unavoidably enters" a joyfully receptive person according to the Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24) because the Apostle indicates the "born of God" are the ones that God causes to "believe in His name", whom are the "children of God", whom are the ones that God causes to be the "many as received Him" (John 1:12-13).

About "receiving":

Man is not the cause of man receiving Christ (Luke 12:57).

God is the cause of man receiving Christ (John 1:12-13).

We Christians actively in thankfulness receive Christ!
​

About "believing":

Man is not the cause of man believing in Christ (Ephesians 2:8-10).

God is the cause of man believing in Christ (John 6:29).

We Christians joyfully believe in Christ!
​

All glory to King Jesus reigning on His Throne in the eternal Kingdom of God for His Salvation of man!!! Amen!!!

We Christians receive saving belief/faith from God our Savior (John 1:12-13, John 6:29, Ephesians 2:8-10)!

Your heart makes false statements about God. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE LORD OF MY SALVATION!!!

 

[Johann]

Nope I called your repeat rejection of context nonsense

Utter nonsense

scripture is not the tradition of men and exegeting scripture is how one arrives at truth.

You ignore context and assume your interpretaion contrary to the facts

Sorry you assume an interpretation consistent with your theology while ignoring context and the harmony of scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Calvinists tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text

The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

In context its meaning is that which God requires of man

again

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Jesus tells them there is something they must do to obtain the food which last for eternal life

in context it is to believe on him

John 6:35–36 (NASB 2020) — 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe.

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

Again this establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God

John 6:29 (NASB 2020) — 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Jesus tells them they must believe

John 6:30 (NASB 2020) — 30 So they said to Him, “What then are You doing as a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work are You performing?

The jew understand him to be telling them they must believe.

An understanding confirmed by Christ as per verse 35 above

They must believe

An understanding confirmed by scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

You have addressed none of this and just assume an interpretation consistent with your theology

thus it is you who depend on the tradition of men

yet even those of your own tradition oppose your interpretation because they consider context

and soeven Calvinist commentator agree with this obvious reading


John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)



This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

Even the notes to the Geneva bible refute you


Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.


Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.

you simply without evidence asserted

The Word in John 6:27 refers to the man's work which is truly the act of God in man; on the other hand, the Word in John 6:29 refers to man's belief which is truly the act of God in man.

There is nothing in verse 27 which speaks of the acts of God in man

You have eisegetically inserted it into the passage just as you did the following

In the first moment (John 6:27), Lord Jesus explains the outward evidence of us Christians controlled by our loving Father in Heaven, and in the second moment (John 6:29), Jesus explains the inward event of us Christians controlled by our loving Father in Heaven, and this Father declares "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased. Listen to Him" (Matthew 17:5).

reading Matthew 17:5 into john when it by no means speaks of control

Rather than exegesis, you offer only the eisegesis of your theology

Just one question.

Do you believe a Christian can have a will INDEPENDENTLY from Christ and the Father?

 

[Rockson]

The pedestrian received a series of traumatic injuries - not by choice - but as a result of the car jumping the curb.

A lover receives a love letter - not by choice - but in gladness.

You're playing twisted word games here. A not so good person may knock on your door wanting to come in but you can choose to not receive him into your house. You know it I know it and all readers know it. Don't pretend that this isn't clear and true.

Receive means a thing that unavoidably came in from a source to a recipient - receive is not a choice like accept - receive just happens.

Come off it. Are you going to say one is wrong in saying they did or did not receive one into their house? They've got to say they accepted them? Let's not get ridiculous.

 

[Rockson]

1. TRANSITIVE VERB When you receive something, you get it after someone gives it to you or sends it to you. (Collins COBUILD English Usage (c) HarperCollins Publishers 1992, 2004, 2011, 2012)

There is a keyword in the definition, which is "after".

Wow. Now this is really getting good. We're really going deep here to find out the key words in definition. So what? Have you never read the Sower Sows the Word? The Sower (God or his servants preaching the WORD have released the seed. So you say the key word is AFTER? Yeah but so what? What do they ;the ones who received the word do with the word AFTER it was spread over the ground? . Do they choose to believe it which is an action word, a verb and not a noun like faith? Nothing you're waxing philosophical about supports your claim. You're just saying that it does.

Lesson to learn. God DOES NOT do your believing for you. It's something you must choose to do.

 

[TomL]

Just one question.

Do you believe a Christian can have a will INDEPENDENTLY from Christ and the Father?

Did you ever sin as a believer?

Ever fail to do his will?

Well then you had a will which was not God's will

 

[Johann]

Did you ever sin as a believer?

Ever fail to do his will?

Well then you had a will which was not God's will

I commit ACTS of missing the mark daily-not living in a STATE of habitual sinning as an unbeliever.

Our boule and thelema SHOULD be swallowed up in the sweet will of Messiah as there is harmony in the Triune Godhead-you failed to answer my question.

 

[TomL]

According to your heart, your gods refuted the Word of God - the comments of your gods are NOT the Word of God.

"RECEIVE" DEFINITION BY EXAMPLE:

The man received a punch to his face dislocating his septum - not by choice - but in the fury of his assailant's surprise attack.

The pedestrian received a series of traumatic injuries - not by choice - but as a result of the car jumping the curb.

A lover receives a love letter - not by choice - but in gladness.

Receive means a thing that unavoidably came in from a source to a recipient - receive is not a choice like accept - receive just happens.

"RECEIVE" DEFINITION BY DICTIONARY:

1. TRANSITIVE VERB When you receive something, you get it after someone gives it to you or sends it to you. (Collins COBUILD English Usage (c) HarperCollins Publishers 1992, 2004, 2011, 2012)

There is a keyword in the definition, which is "after".

This totally absurd

Your comments are not the word of God

hello

You testify against yourself

The Greek word ἔλαβον (Strong's 2983 - lambano/elabon - to take, receive) lexicon definition is "receive", and the specific instance of ἔλαβον used by the Apostle John in John 1:12 is an active indicative aorist verb in the third person; therefore, the word ἔλαβον conveys the active concept of "joyfully" by the recipient of "receive" with the "receive" being initiated and caused by the the source, not the recipient, but truly God is the cause (John 1:12-13), so John conveys "joyfully receive" is the active meaning for ἔλαβον.

Again you ignore much evidence as is typical

e. take up, receive—α. τινὰ someone εἰς into (Wsd 8:18) lit. εἰς τὸ πλοῖον take someone (up) into the boat J 6:21. εἰς οἰκίαν receive someone into one’s house 2J 10. εἰς τὰ ἴδια into his own home J 19:27. Receive someone in the sense of recognizing his authority J 1:12; 5:43a, b; 13:20a, b, c, d

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 464.

BADG refuted you mentioning john 1:12 te verse underdiscussion

e. take up, receive—α. τινὰ someone εἰς into (Wsd 8:18) lit. εἰς τὸ πλοῖον take someone (up) into the boat J 6:21. εἰς οἰκίαν receive someone into one’s house 2J 10. εἰς τὰ ἴδια into his own home J 19:27. Receive someone in the sense of recognizing his authority J 1:12; 5:43a, b; 13:20a, b, c, d

as did

(E) To take up with a person, i.e., to receive him as a friend or guest into one’s house or society, equivalent to déchomai (1209), to accept. (1) Generally (John 6:21, “into the boat” [a.t.]; 19:27, “that disciple took her unto his own home”; 2 John 1:10, “receive him not into your house”). Metaphorically of a teacher, to receive, acknowledge, embrace and follow his instructions (John 1:12; 5:43; 13:20; 14:17); of doctrine, to embrace, admit, e.g., the word (Matt. 13:20; Mark 4:16); the witness (John 3:11, 32

Spiros Zodhiates, The Complete Word Study Dictionary: New Testament (Chattanooga, TN: AMG Publishers, 2000).

he also addresses john 1:12



to receive (person) — to willingly permit access to one’s company. See also παραδέχομαι, προσδέχομαι. Related Topic: Receive.
Jn 5:43 καὶ οὐ λαμβάνετέ με·
Jn 13:20 ὁ λαμβάνων ἄν τινα πέμψω
Jn 13:20 πέμψω ἐμὲ λαμβάνει, ὁ
Jn 13:20 ὁ δὲ ἐμὲ λαμβάνων
Jn 13:20 ὁ δὲ ἐμὲ λαμβάνων λαμβάνει τὸν πέμψαντά με.
Rick Brannan, ed., Lexham Research Lexicon of the Greek New Testament (Lexham Research Lexicons; Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2020).

In the Greek lexicon etymology, "to be seized by" is found for ἔλαβον (Strong's 2983 - lambano/elabon - to take, receive).

"RECEIVE" USAGE IN SCRIPTURE:

The Apostle John wrote "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13).

As usual you ignore context near and far

John 1:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
The verse defines what it is to receive in this context - it is to believe on his name

Compare scripture with scripture

Galatians 3:26 (KJV 1900) — 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

one becomes a child of God by faith in Christ

Scripture use of lambano when used with persons



John 5:43 (KJV 1900) — 43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.


Matthew 10:14 (KJV 1900) — 14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
Matthew 10:41 (KJV 1900) — 41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward.

The Apostle John wrote receiving Christ is a result of being born of God in John 1:12-13.

Nope he wrote one receives Christ to be born again

Ignoring context once again you put indwelling before the right to it

John 1:12 (ESV) — 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

The ESV like the KJV defines what it is to receive Christ in this context

and it the one who believes who has the right to be born again (by becoming his child)

The Apostle John wrote receiving Christ is not an act of the will of man in John 1:12-13.

Nope he wrote being born again is not by the will of man It is God who must do it

The passage does not say that God gives the belief to them, but gives the new birth to those that believe. Verse 13 does not support total depravity, and indeed, as with many purported proof texts for Calvinism, this passage teaches just the opposite. Moreover, a read through the entirety of John's Gospel reflects that Jesus repeatedly asked people to respond in faith either to his words or his works. And indeed, John wrote the book "that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name." Everything about this book assumes people have a choice to believe.
Smelley, Hutson. Deconstructing Calvinism: A Biblical Analysis and Refutation (p. 109). Hutson Smelley. Kindle Edition.

1:13 born … of God: This new spiritual birth is not of blood, that is, by physical generation or by parents. Nor is the new birth of the will of the flesh, that is, by personal effort. Neither is the birth of the will of man, that is, something accomplished by human effort. The new birth is the work of God alone. It is a gift to be received (4:10, 14), not a reward achieved by individual effort. The new birth is based on relationship with Christ, not personal position. The relationship, however, proceeds from the position of Christ as the mediator. Christ is life (1:4; 14:6). Those who trust Him are born of God, meaning they are given spiritual life.1

1 Earl D. Radmacher, Ronald Barclay Allen, and H. Wayne House, Nelson’s New Illustrated Bible Commentary (Nashville: T. Nelson Publishers, 1999), 1311.

The Calvinist misinterprets the apostle’s reference to the “will of the flesh,” by applying it to our hyper-individualized modern soteriological conflict over the nature of man’s free will, while ignoring the obvious Jew/Gentile context of the first century.[3]

Some take the apostle to mean something like, “Man’s libertarian free will has nothing to do with whether or not they will be born of God,” when clearly that is not the issue the apostle is attempting to address.

Instead, it is quite obvious from this context that the three points the apostle John lists here are in reference to the misconceptions of what Israelites perceived as their given covenantal “RIGHTS”[4] as direct descendants of Abraham:

(1 Peter 3:1, 5-6)



not of blood = being a descendant or blood relative of Abraham (Rom. 9:7)



nor of the will of the flesh = being one who “pursued” or “ran after” the law so as to merit righteousness (Rom. 9:31)



nor of the will of man [husband’s will] = by the will of another, such as the will of one’s husband or the patriarchal head, a significant relationship in Jewish custom



The apostle is knocking the legs out from under those Jews who think they have the RIGHT to be God’s child because of who their granddaddy is (blood), their law keeping efforts (fleshly running), or by patriarchal headship (husband’s will). John is not attempting to make a soteriological stance on the nature of man’s free will or responsibility in light of the gospel appeal LCF

 

[Johann]

I commit ACTS of missing the mark daily-not living in a STATE of habitual sinning as an unbeliever.

Our boule and thelema SHOULD be swallowed up in the sweet will of Messiah as there is harmony in the Triune Godhead-you failed to answer my question.

UNBELIEF AND SELF-WILL
As faith is the mother of obedience, so unbelief is the mother of disobedience and self-will.

Cain could, like Abel, have approached God in God’s way. Had he done so he would, like Abel, have been accepted and would have “obtained witness that he was righteous.”

It was unreasonable, therefore, but typical, that when he was not accepted he “was very wroth, and his countenance fell” (Ver. 5). How gracious of God, then, to reason with him as He did.

“And the Lord said unto Cain, why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

“If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, a sin offering1 lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him” (Vers. 6,7).

The meaning is clear. Do what is right and you will not need to bring a sacrifice, but even now that you have sinned, you need not be rejected for a sin offering lies at hand and you can bring it in sacrifice.

THE INCONSISTENCY OF UNBELIEF
But Cain was adamant. His pride had been hurt. And thus it was that one day “Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him” (Ver. 8).

Think of the inconsistency of this brutal act! The man who had been too sensitive, too refined, to bring a slain animal to God in sacrifice for his sins, was not too sensitive or refined to bludgeon his own brother to death.

As a result of his brutal obstinacy Cain was driven from the presence of the Lord to become a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth, and to cry with the doomed: “My punishment is greater than I can bear” (Ver. 13).

PAUL AND THE CHILDREN OF ADAM
It was given to the Apostle Paul to “fulfil [or complete] the Word of God” (Col. 1:25), not statistically, or textually, or chronologically, but doctrinally, by the revelation of “the mystery” (Ver. 26).

Paul’s God-given message was the capstone of divine revelation, for “the mystery” revealed to him is the secret of all God’s dealings with men and it is in its light that we must consider even the ancient account of Cain and Abel.

For nearly four thousand years God had made distinctions between man and man, distinctions between the line of Seth and the line of Cain, between the seed of Abraham and that of the pagan world about him, between the seed of Isaac and that of Ishmael, between the nation Israel and the other nations.

But in due time, under Paul’s ministry, God cast away His covenant people (temporarily) along with the Gentiles, concluding all in unbelief “that He might have MERCY upon all” (Rom. 11:32, 33).1 Thus it is Paul that takes us back, in his theology, not to David or Abraham, with whom the covenants were made, but to fallen Adam, pointing out that “as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin,” so by another “one Man” we may be delivered from sin and death (See Rom. 5:12-19).

“Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness [or, righteous act] of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life” (Rom. 5:18).

Thus in Paul’s epistles former distinctions disappear. “Henceforth,” he says, “know we no man after the flesh” (II Cor. 5:16).

“For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek; for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon Him.

“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved” (Rom. 10:12,13).

There are, to be sure, human distinctions between Adam’s children that are still to be observed, but before God there is no difference, except that which we found existing between Adam’s first two children, the difference between faith and unbelief.

Now the sacred secret revealed through Paul has cast its light upon the story of Cain and Abel. The blood sacrifice which God then required was typical of that which He has since provided and by which believers not only receive witness that they are righteous but become partakers of all of the merits of Calvary: oneness with Christ, oneness with each other in Christ, a heavenly position, heavenly blessings, a heavenly prospect and all “the riches of His grace.”

“To the praise of the glory of His grace, wherein He hath made us accepted in the Beloved.

“In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins according to the riches of His grace;

“Where He hath abounded toward us…” (Eph. 1:6-8).

“That in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us through Christ Jesus” (Eph. 2:7).

Those who reject this forgiveness and these riches of grace are often much like Cain. They may be industrious, sensitive and refined. They may indeed be religious, but instead of approaching God in His way, through the blood of Christ, they come, like Cain, offering what they think is better: the fruit of their toil, their “good” character or their religious efforts.

Tell these good, religious people that only the blood of Christ can save them and, like Cain, their countenances fall. But the very religious leaders who have protested that the doctrine of the blood is “loathesome to the finer senses,” have also been the leaders in the apostasy that has encouraged communism and the brutality and godlessness that is even now engulfing our nation in its perils. Such is the inconsistency of unbelief, and it is of such that God says: “Woe unto them, for they have gone in the way of Cain…” (Jude 11).

Paul and the Children of Adam

THE WORLD'S FIRSTBORN In Genesis 4:1 we read that when the first child was born into the world Eve exclaimed: "I have gotten a man from the Lord!" and the babe was named Cain, meaning Acquisition. Some Hebrew scholars have held that Eve actually said: "I have gotten a man—Jehovah!" However this

bereanbiblesociety.org

 

[TomL]

I commit ACTS of missing the mark daily-not living in a STATE of habitual sinning as an unbeliever.

Our boule and thelema SHOULD be swallowed up in the sweet will of Messiah as there is harmony in the Triune Godhead-you failed to answer my question.

That is fine but in those instances you were acting contrary to the will of God

Your question was answered