An Article on free will

[Kermos]

Same old repeat garbage

Christ chose his disciples They were God's and God gave them to him

Nowhere is there any mention of unconditionality

Your handling of the word receive was refuted by first

the industry standard lexicon BAGD

e. take up, receive—α. τινὰ someone εἰς into (Wsd 8:18) lit. εἰς τὸ πλοῖον take someone (up) into the boat J 6:21. εἰς οἰκίαν receive someone into one’s house 2J 10. εἰς τὰ ἴδια into his own home J 19:27. Receive someone in the sense of recognizing his authority J 1:12; 5:43a, b;

Second it was refuted by the greek grammar where receive is in the active voice indicating it was something theyn did not something that happened to them as you ignorant of greek grammar tried to claim


Sorry you are just repeating false claims. There is nothing in the passage stating men have no ability to receive Christ

We know for a fact some did receive him

John 1:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

further John had just stated'

John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

examine how john uses the term receive here

John 5:43–47 (KJV 1900) — 43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

that should dispel your claim about Christ entering man although grammar already did


Yes active not passive

it indicated something they actively did

There was no passive reception as you falsely believe



Sorry no it does not

It does state those who received him were given the right to be children of God

it is regeneration which makes one a child of God

and we are all children of God by faith

Galatians 3:26 (KJV 1900) — 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.


in causing one to be born again not in choosing to receive christ

Again all are made children of God born again through faith

Galatians 3:26 (KJV 1900) — 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.



Repeating already addressed claim does not make them any stronger

John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)

This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.


Not even these noted Calvinist believe your claim

or you could have just believed scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Paul did not believe you either

No Christian calls the Word of God "repeat garbage", and we find you calling the Word of God “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) that God had me proclaim to you "repeat garbage" compounding your "Utter nonsense" about this wonderful Word of God!!!

The Word of God says "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments" (John 14:15), and you call the Word of God "repeat garbage".

God had me quote along with much more Word of God such as “he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21) which comes after your "John 3:3-8 continue reading" then quoting John 3:9–15, and you responded "repeat garbage" about this wonderful Word of God!!!

Regarding the "believeth" recorded in John 3:15, the Christ of us Christians lovingly declares “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) in response to the people asked Jesus “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God” (John 6:28); therefore, man does not work faith/belief inside of man thus causing man to believe in Lord Jesus, but God does work faith/belief inside of man thus causing man to believe in Lord Jesus (John 6:28-29).

Lord Jesus eliminates “the works of man” (John 6:28) entirely from the equation with His Powerful response “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), and the Apostle Paul is in accord with Jesus saying that God controls faith/belief unto salvation inside of man with absolutely no input by man:

by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast, for we are His work
(Ephesians 2:8-10).
​

You call "repeat garbage" this Word of God “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), but you didn't stop there.

You wrote "People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us" (you made it your heart's treasure by quoting it) about John 6:29, so your thoughts produce "This is the work of man that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the word of TomL) which is NOT keeping “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

Not only do you call "repeat garbage" this Word of God “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), bur your heart proceeds to add to the Word of God producing the word of TomL instead "This is the work of man that you believe in Him whom He has sent"

You propounded "As for your verses First you simply repeat Christ choice of his disciples but nothing states Christ chose them unconditionally for salvation" respecting John 15:16-19, and again I perceive that you switched to use "disciples" as an in-situ replacement for "apostles", yet you contradict yourself in your self-will because you reviled these angelic majesties by effectively labeling the Apostles as deceivers with your "Nothing mentioned about Joseph and Matthias being in the audience on that ocassion" as recorded in post #645 of which your thoughts there daringly contradict angelic majesties testimony of the Apostle Peter "men who have accompanied us all the time" (Acts 1:21) while Peter was with all the Apostles.

Joseph and Matthias were in the room when Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

So, you call the Apostles all liars because all the remaining Apostles were with the Apostle Peter when Peter said:

Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us - one of these [must] become a witness with us of His resurrection.' So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias.
(Acts 1:21-23)
​

In the upper room occupied by Jesus' disciples who put forward Matthias and Joseph were Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James (Acts 1:13), and these disciples recognized Matthias and Joseph as disciples that were with them from the beginning, and not a single disciple contradicted Peter's prounouncement of "men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us".

Thus, Matthias and Joseph are at least two more people beyond the Apostles for a minimum total of 13 disciples who are specifically identified at the supper covered in John chapters 13-17; therefore, Lord Jesus Christ's "you" in John 15:16 and John 15:19 extends well beyond the Apostles, in Truth (John 14:6)!

Christ uses "you" to indicate all Christians in all time are chosen by God alone unto salvation as well as to bring the message of Christ's salvation to the world when King Jesus majestically decrees "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation). Your evasion of the King's decree is a terror.

You answered "Yes" to the question of "Do you think you are a friend of Jesus, @TomL?" as recorded in post #576, so you, @TomL, reveal your confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33) as you assert that in John 15:15-16, as shown below, that Jesus' first two "you" occurrences apply to you, @TomL personally, but that Jesus' second two "you" occurrences apply "exclusively to the apostles":

I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you
(Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:15-16).
​

Your heart's treasure results in "I have called you everyone everywhere in all time friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You apostles here now did not choose Me but I chose exclusively you apostles" (the confused word of TomL).

No Scripture you quoted states man can choose to believe in God, so you conjure up the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

Your "repeat garbage" about the Word of God "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) indicates precisely what you believe or don't believe, TomL.

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE ONE TRUE HOLY GOD, LORD JESUS!!!

 

[TomL]

No Christian calls the Word of God "repeat garbage", and we find you calling the Word of God “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) that God had me proclaim to you "repeat garbage" compounding your "Utter nonsense" about this wonderful Word of God!!!

The Word of God says "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments" (John 14:15), and you call the Word of God "repeat garbage".

God had me quote along with much more Word of God such as “he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21) which comes after your "John 3:3-8 continue reading" then quoting John 3:9–15, and you responded "repeat garbage" about this wonderful Word of God!!!

Regarding the "believeth" recorded in John 3:15, the Christ of us Christians lovingly declares “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) in response to the people asked Jesus “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God” (John 6:28); therefore, man does not work faith/belief inside of man thus causing man to believe in Lord Jesus, but God does work faith/belief inside of man thus causing man to believe in Lord Jesus (John 6:28-29).

Lord Jesus eliminates “the works of man” (John 6:28) entirely from the equation with His Powerful response “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), and the Apostle Paul is in accord with Jesus saying that God controls faith/belief unto salvation inside of man with absolutely no input by man:

​

by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast, for we are His work​

(Ephesians 2:8-10).​

​

You call "repeat garbage" this Word of God “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), but you didn't stop there.

You wrote "People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us" (you made it your heart's treasure by quoting it) about John 6:29, so your thoughts produce "This is the work of man that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the word of TomL) which is NOT keeping “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

Not only do you call "repeat garbage" this Word of God “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), bur your heart proceeds to add to the Word of God producing the word of TomL instead "This is the work of man that you believe in Him whom He has sent"

You propounded "As for your verses First you simply repeat Christ choice of his disciples but nothing states Christ chose them unconditionally for salvation" respecting John 15:16-19, and again I perceive that you switched to use "disciples" as an in-situ replacement for "apostles", yet you contradict yourself in your self-will because you reviled these angelic majesties by effectively labeling the Apostles as deceivers with your "Nothing mentioned about Joseph and Matthias being in the audience on that ocassion" as recorded in post #645 of which your thoughts there daringly contradict angelic majesties testimony of the Apostle Peter "men who have accompanied us all the time" (Acts 1:21) while Peter was with all the Apostles.

Joseph and Matthias were in the room when Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

So, you call the Apostles all liars because all the remaining Apostles were with the Apostle Peter when Peter said:

​

Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us - one of these [must] become a witness with us of His resurrection.' So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias.​

(Acts 1:21-23)​

​

In the upper room occupied by Jesus' disciples who put forward Matthias and Joseph were Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James (Acts 1:13), and these disciples recognized Matthias and Joseph as disciples that were with them from the beginning, and not a single disciple contradicted Peter's prounouncement of "men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us".

Thus, Matthias and Joseph are at least two more people beyond the Apostles for a minimum total of 13 disciples who are specifically identified at the supper covered in John chapters 13-17; therefore, Lord Jesus Christ's "you" in John 15:16 and John 15:19 extends well beyond the Apostles, in Truth (John 14:6)!

Christ uses "you" to indicate all Christians in all time are chosen by God alone unto salvation as well as to bring the message of Christ's salvation to the world when King Jesus majestically decrees "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation). Your evasion of the King's decree is a terror.

You answered "Yes" to the question of "Do you think you are a friend of Jesus, @TomL?" as recorded in post #576, so you, @TomL, reveal your confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33) as you assert that in John 15:15-16, as shown below, that Jesus' first two "you" occurrences apply to you, @TomL personally, but that Jesus' second two "you" occurrences apply "exclusively to the apostles":

​

I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you​

(Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:15-16).​

​

Your heart's treasure results in "I have called you everyone everywhere in all time friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You apostles here now did not choose Me but I chose exclusively you apostles" (the confused word of TomL).

No Scripture you quoted states man can choose to believe in God, so you conjure up the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

Your "repeat garbage" about the Word of God "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) indicates precisely what you believe or don't believe, TomL.

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE ONE TRUE HOLY GOD, LORD JESUS!!!

Its not the word but your interpretation and the repeated refuted nonsense you jeep posting

Same old repeat garbage

Christ chose his disciples They were God's and God gave them to him

Nowhere is there any mention of unconditionality

Your handling of the word receive was refuted by first

the industry standard lexicon BAGD

e. take up, receive—α. τινὰ someone εἰς into (Wsd 8:18) lit. εἰς τὸ πλοῖον take someone (up) into the boat J 6:21. εἰς οἰκίαν receive someone into one’s house 2J 10. εἰς τὰ ἴδια into his own home J 19:27. Receive someone in the sense of recognizing his authority J 1:12; 5:43a, b;

Second it was refuted by the greek grammar where receive is in the active voice indicating it was something theyn did not something that happened to them as you ignorant of greek grammar tried to claim


Sorry you are just repeating false claims. There is nothing in the passage stating men have no ability to receive Christ

We know for a fact some did receive him

John 1:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

further John had just stated'

John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

examine how john uses the term receive here

John 5:43–47 (KJV 1900) — 43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

that should dispel your claim about Christ entering man although grammar already did


Yes active not passive

it indicated something they actively did

There was no passive reception as you falsely believe



Sorry no it does not

It does state those who received him were given the right to be children of God

it is regeneration which makes one a child of God

and we are all children of God by faith

Galatians 3:26 (KJV 1900) — 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.


in causing one to be born again not in choosing to receive christ

Again all are made children of God born again through faith

Galatians 3:26 (KJV 1900) — 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.



Repeating already addressed claim does not make them any stronger

John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)

This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.


Not even these noted Calvinist believe your claim

or you could have just believed scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Paul did not believe you either

 

[TomL]

Your folly that man causes himself to receive (lambano) Christ in John 1:12-13 is evident by the following.

BAGD has lambano as "receive", so BAGD is A-OK with "receive". You conjure up false statements about the writings that God causes the Apostle John's to write as well as me to write.

Self-willed you (2 Peter 2:9-10), not free-willed you, truly self-willed you are unrepentant after you were shown your linguistic deception that the Greek word παρέλαβον (Strong's 3880 - paralambanó - to receive from) occurs as the source word for "received" in John 1:12.

Since you brought up "receive" of John 1:11, the Apostle used the word "receive" to illustrate man's inability to choose to receive [Christ] into one’s house, so to speak; therefore, the very specific Greek word that you brought up proves the error of your free-willian way.

Your linguistics are so faulty that you said paralambano is part of John 1:12, and when it was shown to you that paralambano is actually in John 1:11, not John 1:12, then afterward you have shown no sign of repentance nor apology for your deception.

John's words are "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13), and the word "received" is accurately translated from ἔλαβον (Strong's 2983 - lambanó - to take, receive), and, indeed, "received" is Aorist and active grammatically.

The Apostle indicates we "born of God" are the ones that God causes to "believe in His name" because we are the "children of God" (a.k.a. the "born of God") of whom are the ones that God causes us to be the "many as received Him" (John 1:12-13).

The Apostle John specifically disallowed your free-will to "receive" Christ in the passage with John's words of "nor of the will of man" (John 1:12-13).

"RECEIVE" DEFINITION BY EXAMPLE:

The man received a punch to his face dislocating his septum - not by choice - but in the fury of his assailant’s surprise attack.

The pedestrian received a series of traumatic injuries - not by choice - but as a result of the car jumping the curb.

A lover receives a love letter - not by choice - but in gladness.

Receive means a thing that unavoidably came in from a source to a recipient - receive is not a choice like accept - receive just happens.

"RECEIVE" DEFINITION BY DICTIONARY:

1. TRANSITIVE VERB When you receive something, you get it after someone gives it to you or sends it to you. (Collins COBUILD English Usage (c) HarperCollins Publishers 1992, 2004, 2011, 2012)

There is a keyword in the definition, which is "after".

"RECEIVE" USAGE IN SCRIPTURE:

The Apostle John wrote "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13).

The Apostle John wrote receiving Christ is a result of being born of God in John 1:12-13.

The Apostle John wrote receiving Christ is not an act of the will of man in John 1:12-13.

The ones who received Christ are the ones "who were born" "of God".

Let's follow the blessed chain linking these people of whom John wrote which is the "born of God" (John 1:13, John 3:3-8) links with "believe in His name" (John 1:12, John 6:29) links with "many as received Him" (John 1:12, John 9).

Each of these are exactly the same people:

• "many as received Him"
• "children of God"
• "believe in His name"
• "born of God"

See that John explicitly excludes "the will of man" as the cause for all of these.

John 1:12-13 shows that you cannot cause yourself to receive Jesus.

John 1:12-13 shows that God causes people to receive Jesus.

John 1:12-13 shows that you cannot cause yourself to believe in Jesus.

John 1:12-13 shows that God causes people to believe in Jesus.

Again, here is the passage:

"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13).

"Peter [said] to them, 'Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.'" (Acts 2:38-39, this was Peter's response after the people who were pierced to the heart by Peter's proclamation of the Word of God inquired "Brethren, what shall we do" in Acts 2:14-37)

Peter issued the command "think differently from now on" (repent) and the command "be immersed in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins" and here is where "receive" comes in, "you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" which is an act of God.

The word "receive" means "unavoidably enters"; on the other hand, the word "accept" means "allowed to enter".

The work of "accept" is specifically disallowed in the passage with "nor of the will of man" because man causes not man to be "born of God" nor man causes to "believe in His name", whom are the "children of God", nor man causes to be the "many as received Him" (John 1:12-13).

The grammatical sense of the word "receive" indicates Christ "unavoidably enters" a joyfully receptive person according to the Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24) because the Apostle indicates the "born of God" are the ones that God causes to "believe in His name", whom are the "children of God", whom are the ones that God causes to be the "many as received Him" (John 1:12-13).

Since you are so very focused on the BAGD throughout your prior post, even in your closing paragraph:

​

e. take up, receive—α. τινὰ someone εἰς into (Wsd 8:18) lit. εἰς τὸ πλοῖον take someone (up) into the boat J 6:21. εἰς οἰκίαν receive someone into one’s house 2J 10. εἰς τὰ ἴδια into his own home J 19:27. Receive someone in the sense of recognizing his authority J 1:12; 5:43a, b;​

​

then the following needs to be recognized:

• that God controls the "received" and the "recognizing his authority" are entirely controlled by God for it is written "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13) - THE CONCEPT EMPHASIZED IN YOUR CLOSING PARAGRAPH IS NOT CONTROLLED BY MAN.
• that BAGD extended the "take up, receive" definition of lambano in your heart with "receive someone into one’s house" as evident in your quotation of Scripture that you disbelieve "And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. (Acts 16:30–31) see "one’s house" in BAGD along with thy house (Acts 16:30-31) as a relation, and this Paul wrote that God causes people to believe and that the believe is not of yourselves/man with:
  
  
  by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast, for we are His work
  (Ephesians 2:8-10).​
  So, Paul dispelled your deception that the "Believe" in Acts 16:30-31 was of man to the glory of man, just is the conclusion of your heart's treasure. Truly God gets the glory for us believers believing in Jesus.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Freewill is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE ONE HOLY SOVEREIGN TRUE GOD, LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!

Simply repeating your nonsense ignoring BADG and the grammar and commentators and context

BAGD refutes your meaning of receive

e. take up, receive—α. τινὰ someone εἰς into (Wsd 8:18) lit. εἰς τὸ πλοῖον take someone (up) into the boat J 6:21. εἰς οἰκίαν receive someone into one’s house 2J 10. εἰς τὰ ἴδια into his own home J 19:27. Receive someone in the sense of recognizing his authority J 1:12; 5:43a, b; 13:20a,

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 464.

Grammar and the active voice refutes you

2 3745 [e] 12 hosoi 12 ὅσοι 12 As many as 12 RelPro-NMP​

1161 [e] de δὲ however Conj​

2983 [e] elabon ἔλαβον received V-AIA-3P​

It is a 3rd person aorist active indicative

The active voice notes it is something they did not something which happened to them



WHAT IS ITS VOICE?

These inflectional endings also tell you whether you are doing the action or if it is being done to you. Take the sentence, “I will make a house,” (ποιήσω οἶκον). You will understand it better if I diagram it:


Active



Notice the direction the action is going, from the left to the right; from “I” to “house.” The verb tells you what I will do to the house. So I place an arrow over the verb pointing in the right direction of the action:




Edward W. Goodrick, Do It Yourself Hebrew and Greek: A Guide to Biblical Language Tools (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1980), x.

You have ignorantly twisted the grammar, willfully ignored the lexical definition by BDAG and twisted the passage to suit your tgheology while ignoring the fact that even your Calvinist peers do not agree with your claims As I noted​

The context refutes you

Calvinist commentators refute you

Received him not. Did not acknowledge him to be the Messiah. They rejected him and put him to death, agreeably to the prophecy, Is. 53:3, 4.

Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 178.

Received him not (αὐτον οὐ παρελαβον [auton ou parelabon]). Second aorist active indicative of παραλαμβανω [paralambanō], old verb to take to one’s side, common verb to welcome, the very verb used by Jesus in 14:3 of the welcome to his Father’s house. Cf. κατελαβεν [katelaben] in verse 5. Israel slew the Heir (Heb. 1:2) when he came, like the wicked husbandmen (Luke 20:14).

A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Jn 1:11.

context refutes you

John 1:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

receive refers to believing on him - his authority as the lexicon BAGD noted

Sorry you are simply repeating your sorry old claims which were shown insufficient

You have ignored Calvinist commentators, Calvinist Greek Scholars, industry standard lexicons, parallel texts

read your theology into passages where it did not exist.

Twisted passages by appeal to a non parallel text while mishandling an active voice verb as though it was a passive

Receive Christ is something they did not something that happened to them

the active voice refutes your claim

All your claims have been noted and refuted previously which you just t ignore

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-61559

 

[civic]

Simply repeating your nonsense ignoring BADG and the grammar and commentators and context

BAGD refutes your meaning of receive

e. take up, receive—α. τινὰ someone εἰς into (Wsd 8:18) lit. εἰς τὸ πλοῖον take someone (up) into the boat J 6:21. εἰς οἰκίαν receive someone into one’s house 2J 10. εἰς τὰ ἴδια into his own home J 19:27. Receive someone in the sense of recognizing his authority J 1:12; 5:43a, b; 13:20a,

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 464.

Grammar and the active voice refutes you

2 3745 [e] 12 hosoi 12 ὅσοι 12 As many as 12 RelPro-NMP​

1161 [e] de δὲ however Conj​

2983 [e] elabon ἔλαβον received V-AIA-3P​

It is a 3rd person aorist active indicative

The active voice notes it is something they did not something which happened to them



WHAT IS ITS VOICE?

These inflectional endings also tell you whether you are doing the action or if it is being done to you. Take the sentence, “I will make a house,” (ποιήσω οἶκον). You will understand it better if I diagram it:


Active



Notice the direction the action is going, from the left to the right; from “I” to “house.” The verb tells you what I will do to the house. So I place an arrow over the verb pointing in the right direction of the action:




Edward W. Goodrick, Do It Yourself Hebrew and Greek: A Guide to Biblical Language Tools (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1980), x.

You have ignorantly twisted the grammar, willfully ignored the lexical definition by BDAG and twisted the passage to suit your tgheology while ignoring the fact that even your Calvinist peers do not agree with your claims As I noted​

The context refutes you

Calvinist commentators refute you

Received him not. Did not acknowledge him to be the Messiah. They rejected him and put him to death, agreeably to the prophecy, Is. 53:3, 4.

Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 178.

Received him not (αὐτον οὐ παρελαβον [auton ou parelabon]). Second aorist active indicative of παραλαμβανω [paralambanō], old verb to take to one’s side, common verb to welcome, the very verb used by Jesus in 14:3 of the welcome to his Father’s house. Cf. κατελαβεν [katelaben] in verse 5. Israel slew the Heir (Heb. 1:2) when he came, like the wicked husbandmen (Luke 20:14).

A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Jn 1:11.

context refutes you

John 1:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

receive refers to believing on him - his authority as the lexicon BAGD noted

Sorry you are simply repeating your sorry old claims which were shown insufficient

You have ignored Calvinist commentators, Calvinist Greek Scholars, industry standard lexicons, parallel texts

read your theology into passages where it did not exist.

Twisted passages by appeal to a non parallel text while mishandling an active voice verb as though it was a passive

Receive Christ is something they did not something that happened to them

the active voice refutes your claim

All your claims have been noted and refuted previously which you just t ignore

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-61559

Thanks for sharing the Greek from BDAG and the Scholarship to back up its meaning. Well done !

 

[TomL]

Thanks for sharing the Greek from BDAG and the Scholarship to back up its meaning. Well done !

You are welcome. It is absurd he just keeps repeating the same refuted errors

 

[civic]

You are welcome. It is absurd he just keeps repeating the same refuted errors

If you remember thats what I did as well when I was a calvinist. I did it with dead/corpse all of the time ad nauseum lol to prove regeneration came first. Most of them forget I was a calvinist long before they were and used all of the same arguments for decades. I know them inside out and all the passages used to support calvinism. I sure didn't forget them I can recall them instantly.

 

[civic]

the old forum use to have some really good calvinist apologists like bavinck who was fluent in NT Greek. There was also carpenter and they were great guys who were really nice/kind and gifted at teaching. I still have some of their conversations saved from 15-20 years ago.

There are a few members here that will remember those guys. They spent most of their time in the language forum but would come over to the A/C forum when I would ask them to get involved in a discussion.

 

[TomL]

If you remember thats what I did as well when I was a calvinist. I did it with dead/corpse all of the time ad nauseum lol to prove regeneration came first. Most of them forget I was a calvinist long before they were and used all of the same arguments for decades. I know them inside out and all the passages used to support calvinism. I sure didn't forget them I can recall them instantly.

Funny thing though even his twisting of scripture, grammar and lexical meaning of the verb receive to make it refer to Christ entering man

does not support him


John 1:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

for he has Christ entering those who believe on his name

It is believers who receive the holy Spirit, have Christ in them.

Galatians 3:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:14 (KJV 1900) — 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Ephesians 3:17 (KJV 1900) — 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

John 7:38–39 (KJV 1900) — 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

So as regeneration is accomplished by the entrance of the Spirit and faith precedes receiving the Spirit, then faith precedes regeneration.

You however had not repeatedly ignored refutation after refutation, as he does

 

[brightfame52]

Your folly that man causes himself to receive (lambano) Christ in John 1:12-13 is evident by the following.

BAGD has lambano as "receive", so BAGD is A-OK with "receive". You conjure up false statements about the writings that God causes the Apostle John's to write as well as me to write.

Self-willed you (2 Peter 2:9-10), not free-willed you, truly self-willed you are unrepentant after you were shown your linguistic deception that the Greek word παρέλαβον (Strong's 3880 - paralambanó - to receive from) occurs as the source word for "received" in John 1:12.

Since you brought up "receive" of John 1:11, the Apostle used the word "receive" to illustrate man's inability to choose to receive [Christ] into one’s house, so to speak; therefore, the very specific Greek word that you brought up proves the error of your free-willian way.

Your linguistics are so faulty that you said paralambano is part of John 1:12, and when it was shown to you that paralambano is actually in John 1:11, not John 1:12, then afterward you have shown no sign of repentance nor apology for your deception.

John's words are "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13), and the word "received" is accurately translated from ἔλαβον (Strong's 2983 - lambanó - to take, receive), and, indeed, "received" is Aorist and active grammatically.

The Apostle indicates we "born of God" are the ones that God causes to "believe in His name" because we are the "children of God" (a.k.a. the "born of God") of whom are the ones that God causes us to be the "many as received Him" (John 1:12-13).

The Apostle John specifically disallowed your free-will to "receive" Christ in the passage with John's words of "nor of the will of man" (John 1:12-13).

"RECEIVE" DEFINITION BY EXAMPLE:

The man received a punch to his face dislocating his septum - not by choice - but in the fury of his assailant’s surprise attack.

The pedestrian received a series of traumatic injuries - not by choice - but as a result of the car jumping the curb.

A lover receives a love letter - not by choice - but in gladness.

Receive means a thing that unavoidably came in from a source to a recipient - receive is not a choice like accept - receive just happens.

"RECEIVE" DEFINITION BY DICTIONARY:

1. TRANSITIVE VERB When you receive something, you get it after someone gives it to you or sends it to you. (Collins COBUILD English Usage (c) HarperCollins Publishers 1992, 2004, 2011, 2012)

There is a keyword in the definition, which is "after".

"RECEIVE" USAGE IN SCRIPTURE:

The Apostle John wrote "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13).

The Apostle John wrote receiving Christ is a result of being born of God in John 1:12-13.

The Apostle John wrote receiving Christ is not an act of the will of man in John 1:12-13.

The ones who received Christ are the ones "who were born" "of God".

Let's follow the blessed chain linking these people of whom John wrote which is the "born of God" (John 1:13, John 3:3-8) links with "believe in His name" (John 1:12, John 6:29) links with "many as received Him" (John 1:12, John 9).

Each of these are exactly the same people:

• "many as received Him"
• "children of God"
• "believe in His name"
• "born of God"

See that John explicitly excludes "the will of man" as the cause for all of these.

John 1:12-13 shows that you cannot cause yourself to receive Jesus.

John 1:12-13 shows that God causes people to receive Jesus.

John 1:12-13 shows that you cannot cause yourself to believe in Jesus.

John 1:12-13 shows that God causes people to believe in Jesus.

Again, here is the passage:

"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13).

"Peter [said] to them, 'Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.'" (Acts 2:38-39, this was Peter's response after the people who were pierced to the heart by Peter's proclamation of the Word of God inquired "Brethren, what shall we do" in Acts 2:14-37)

Peter issued the command "think differently from now on" (repent) and the command "be immersed in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins" and here is where "receive" comes in, "you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" which is an act of God.

The word "receive" means "unavoidably enters"; on the other hand, the word "accept" means "allowed to enter".

The work of "accept" is specifically disallowed in the passage with "nor of the will of man" because man causes not man to be "born of God" nor man causes to "believe in His name", whom are the "children of God", nor man causes to be the "many as received Him" (John 1:12-13).

The grammatical sense of the word "receive" indicates Christ "unavoidably enters" a joyfully receptive person according to the Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24) because the Apostle indicates the "born of God" are the ones that God causes to "believe in His name", whom are the "children of God", whom are the ones that God causes to be the "many as received Him" (John 1:12-13).

Since you are so very focused on the BAGD throughout your prior post, even in your closing paragraph:

​

e. take up, receive—α. τινὰ someone εἰς into (Wsd 8:18) lit. εἰς τὸ πλοῖον take someone (up) into the boat J 6:21. εἰς οἰκίαν receive someone into one’s house 2J 10. εἰς τὰ ἴδια into his own home J 19:27. Receive someone in the sense of recognizing his authority J 1:12; 5:43a, b;​

​

then the following needs to be recognized:

• that God controls the "received" and the "recognizing his authority" are entirely controlled by God for it is written "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13) - THE CONCEPT EMPHASIZED IN YOUR CLOSING PARAGRAPH IS NOT CONTROLLED BY MAN.
• that BAGD extended the "take up, receive" definition of lambano in your heart with "receive someone into one’s house" as evident in your quotation of Scripture that you disbelieve "And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. (Acts 16:30–31) see "one’s house" in BAGD along with thy house (Acts 16:30-31) as a relation, and this Paul wrote that God causes people to believe and that the believe is not of yourselves/man with:
  
  
  by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast, for we are His work
  (Ephesians 2:8-10).​
  So, Paul dispelled your deception that the "Believe" in Acts 16:30-31 was of man to the glory of man, just is the conclusion of your heart's treasure. Truly God gets the glory for us believers believing in Jesus.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Freewill is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE ONE HOLY SOVEREIGN TRUE GOD, LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!

Spiritual things are received because they are effectually given by God to receive Jn 3:27

John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
The elect receives Grace from Christ because He is their Head with their fulness in Him Jn 1:16
And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
This Grace was given in Purpose to them in Christ their Head before the world began 2 Tim 1:9
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

 

[Joe]

One must be willing...

Here we read one must be willing to receive/accept that John the Baptist is the fulfillment of prophecy concerning the coming of Elijah.

• "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come." (Mat 11:13-14)

Receiving/accepting is clearly the act of one's will. One must be willing to receive to one's self that John fulfilled prophecy as the coming of Elijah.


In another example our Lord spoke a parable of a wedding.

• "The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son, and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they were not willing to come." (Mat 22:2-3)

We know this parable is in reference to the unwillingness of the Jewish people to accept God's invite to eternal salvation through His Son. God invited them first to eternal salvation and they were not willing to come.


In another example our Lord lamented over the Jewish people.

• "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!" (Mat 23:37)

This statement clearly states God's will was to save the Jewish people but they were not willing.


And lastly the Apostle John stated:

• "He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:11-13)

The order of salvation is given by John:

1. to those who did receive/accept Him; to those who believe in His name
2. He gave them the right to become the children of God. Who were born of the will of God.

One must receive/accept/believe that Jesus is the Son of God to be given the right to be a child of God.
"The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God" (ref: Rom 8:16)

If one refuses to accept/believe Jesus Christ, then one does not get the right to become a child of God.
"Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His." (ref: Rom 8:9)

What does it take to be saved? "whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." (ref: John 3:16)

One must be willing to accept John the Baptist is the fulfillment of prophecy concerning the coming of Elijah.
One must be willing to accept the invite of God to be saved.
One must be willing for God to save them.
One must be willing to accept Jesus Christ in order to be given the right to be a child of God.

Receiving/accepting/believing is clearly the act of one's will and is a requirement of salvation.

God Bless

 

[TomL]

Spiritual things are received because they are effectually given by God to receive Jn 3:27

John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
The elect receives Grace from Christ because He is their Head with their fulness in Him Jn 1:16
And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
This Grace was given in Purpose to them in Christ their Head before the world began 2 Tim 1:9
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Of course the context has nothing to do with the ability to believe spiritual truth and concerns Christ's baptizing of more men than John

John 3:22–30 (NASB 2020) — 22 After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea; and there He was spending time with them and baptizing. 23 Now John also was baptizing in Aenon, near Salim, because there was an abundance of water there; and people were coming and being baptized—24 for John had not yet been thrown into prison. 25 Then a matter of dispute developed on the part of John’s disciples with a Jew about purification. 26 And they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, He who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you have testified—behold, He is baptizing and all the people are coming to Him.” 27 John replied, “A person can receive not even one thing unless it has been given to him from heaven. 28 You yourselves are my witnesses that I said, ‘I am not the Christ,’ but, ‘I have been sent ahead of Him.’ 29 He who has the bride is the groom; but the friend of the groom, who stands and listens to him, rejoices greatly because of the groom’s voice. So this joy of mine has been made full. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Judas was a child of perdition, to be lost Jn 17:12

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

His lostness was determined by scripture, Gods predestination

When you learn and understand the word "perdition" and its use in the text come back with the true word of God on this question on that passage of Scripture in John 17.
I see you don't know what the word "perdition" means nor its usage in the text.

 

[TomL]

Judas was a child of perdition, to be lost Jn 17:12

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

His lostness was determined by scripture, Gods predestination

Got a verse which states Judas was unconditionally predestined?

 

[Kermos]

Its not the word but your interpretation and the repeated refuted nonsense you jeep posting

Same old repeat garbage

Christ chose his disciples They were God's and God gave them to him

Nowhere is there any mention of unconditionality

Your handling of the word receive was refuted by first

the industry standard lexicon BAGD

e. take up, receive—α. τινὰ someone εἰς into (Wsd 8:18) lit. εἰς τὸ πλοῖον take someone (up) into the boat J 6:21. εἰς οἰκίαν receive someone into one’s house 2J 10. εἰς τὰ ἴδια into his own home J 19:27. Receive someone in the sense of recognizing his authority J 1:12; 5:43a, b;

Second it was refuted by the greek grammar where receive is in the active voice indicating it was something theyn did not something that happened to them as you ignorant of greek grammar tried to claim


Sorry you are just repeating false claims. There is nothing in the passage stating men have no ability to receive Christ

We know for a fact some did receive him

John 1:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

further John had just stated'

John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

examine how john uses the term receive here

John 5:43–47 (KJV 1900) — 43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

that should dispel your claim about Christ entering man although grammar already did


Yes active not passive

it indicated something they actively did

There was no passive reception as you falsely believe



Sorry no it does not

It does state those who received him were given the right to be children of God

it is regeneration which makes one a child of God

and we are all children of God by faith

Galatians 3:26 (KJV 1900) — 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.


in causing one to be born again not in choosing to receive christ

Again all are made children of God born again through faith

Galatians 3:26 (KJV 1900) — 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.



Repeating already addressed claim does not make them any stronger

John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)

This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.


Not even these noted Calvinist believe your claim

or you could have just believed scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Paul did not believe you either

You apply your "repeat garbage" to the Word of God, and the below proves it! You show no sign of repentance. See the blue text that shows how you add to the Word of God. It's really quite straightforward, you add to the Word of God in order to achieve your free-willian philosophy; in contrast, God has me proclaiming that the Word of God means precisely what He says.

No Christian calls the Word of God "repeat garbage", and we find you calling the Word of God “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) that God had me proclaim to you "repeat garbage" compounding your "Utter nonsense" about this wonderful Word of God!!!

The Word of God says "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments" (John 14:15), and you call the Word of God "repeat garbage".

God had me quote along with much more Word of God such as “he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21) which comes after your "John 3:3-8 continue reading" then quoting John 3:9–15, and you responded "repeat garbage" about this wonderful Word of God!!!

Regarding the "believeth" recorded in John 3:15, the Christ of us Christians lovingly declares “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) in response to the people asked Jesus “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God” (John 6:28); therefore, man does not work faith/belief inside of man thus causing man to believe in Lord Jesus, but God does work faith/belief inside of man thus causing man to believe in Lord Jesus (John 6:28-29).

Lord Jesus eliminates “the works of man” (John 6:28) entirely from the equation with His Powerful response “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), and the Apostle Paul is in accord with Jesus saying that God controls faith/belief unto salvation inside of man with absolutely no input by man:

by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast, for we are His work
(Ephesians 2:8-10).
​

You call "repeat garbage" this Word of God “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), but you didn't stop there.

You wrote "People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us" (you made it your heart's treasure by quoting it) about John 6:29, so your thoughts produce "This is the work of man that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the word of TomL) which is NOT keeping “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

Not only do you call "repeat garbage" this Word of God “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), bur your heart proceeds to add to the Word of God producing the word of TomL instead "This is the work of man that you believe in Him whom He has sent"

You propounded "As for your verses First you simply repeat Christ choice of his disciples but nothing states Christ chose them unconditionally for salvation" respecting John 15:16-19, and again I perceive that you switched to use "disciples" as an in-situ replacement for "apostles", yet you contradict yourself in your self-will because you reviled these angelic majesties by effectively labeling the Apostles as deceivers with your "Nothing mentioned about Joseph and Matthias being in the audience on that ocassion" as recorded in post #645 of which your thoughts there daringly contradict angelic majesties testimony of the Apostle Peter "men who have accompanied us all the time" (Acts 1:21) while Peter was with all the Apostles.

Joseph and Matthias were in the room when Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

So, you call the Apostles all liars because all the remaining Apostles were with the Apostle Peter when Peter said:

Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us - one of these [must] become a witness with us of His resurrection.' So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias.
(Acts 1:21-23)
​

In the upper room occupied by Jesus' disciples who put forward Matthias and Joseph were Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James (Acts 1:13), and these disciples recognized Matthias and Joseph as disciples that were with them from the beginning, and not a single disciple contradicted Peter's prounouncement of "men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us".

Thus, Matthias and Joseph are at least two more people beyond the Apostles for a minimum total of 13 disciples who are specifically identified at the supper covered in John chapters 13-17; therefore, Lord Jesus Christ's "you" in John 15:16 and John 15:19 extends well beyond the Apostles, in Truth (John 14:6)!

Christ uses "you" to indicate all Christians in all time are chosen by God alone unto salvation as well as to bring the message of Christ's salvation to the world when King Jesus majestically decrees "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation). Your evasion of the King's decree is a terror.

You answered "Yes" to the question of "Do you think you are a friend of Jesus, @TomL?" as recorded in post #576, so you, @TomL, reveal your confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33) as you assert that in John 15:15-16, as shown below, that Jesus' first two "you" occurrences apply to you, @TomL personally, but that Jesus' second two "you" occurrences apply "exclusively to the apostles":

I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you
(Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:15-16).
​

Your heart's treasure results in "I have called you with that guy TomL friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You apostles here now did not choose Me but I chose exclusively you apostles" (the confused word of TomL).

No Scripture you quoted states man can choose to believe in God, so you conjure up the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

Your "repeat garbage" about the Word of God "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) indicates precisely what you believe or don't believe, TomL.

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE ONE TRUE HOLY GOD, LORD JESUS!!!

 

[TomL]

You apply your "repeat garbage" to the Word of God, and the below proves it! You show no sign of repentance. See the blue text that shows how you add to the Word of God. It's really quite straightforward, you add to the Word of God in order to achieve your free-willian philosophy; in contrast, God has me proclaiming that the Word of God means precisely what He says.

No Christian calls the Word of God "repeat garbage", and we find you calling the Word of God “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) that God had me proclaim to you "repeat garbage" compounding your "Utter nonsense" about this wonderful Word of God!!!

The Word of God says "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments" (John 14:15), and you call the Word of God "repeat garbage".

God had me quote along with much more Word of God such as “he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21) which comes after your "John 3:3-8 continue reading" then quoting John 3:9–15, and you responded "repeat garbage" about this wonderful Word of God!!!

Regarding the "believeth" recorded in John 3:15, the Christ of us Christians lovingly declares “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) in response to the people asked Jesus “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God” (John 6:28); therefore, man does not work faith/belief inside of man thus causing man to believe in Lord Jesus, but God does work faith/belief inside of man thus causing man to believe in Lord Jesus (John 6:28-29).

Lord Jesus eliminates “the works of man” (John 6:28) entirely from the equation with His Powerful response “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), and the Apostle Paul is in accord with Jesus saying that God controls faith/belief unto salvation inside of man with absolutely no input by man:

​

by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast, for we are His work​

(Ephesians 2:8-10).​

​

You call "repeat garbage" this Word of God “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), but you didn't stop there.

You wrote "People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us" (you made it your heart's treasure by quoting it) about John 6:29, so your thoughts produce "This is the work of man that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the word of TomL) which is NOT keeping “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

Not only do you call "repeat garbage" this Word of God “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), bur your heart proceeds to add to the Word of God producing the word of TomL instead "This is the work of man that you believe in Him whom He has sent"

You propounded "As for your verses First you simply repeat Christ choice of his disciples but nothing states Christ chose them unconditionally for salvation" respecting John 15:16-19, and again I perceive that you switched to use "disciples" as an in-situ replacement for "apostles", yet you contradict yourself in your self-will because you reviled these angelic majesties by effectively labeling the Apostles as deceivers with your "Nothing mentioned about Joseph and Matthias being in the audience on that ocassion" as recorded in post #645 of which your thoughts there daringly contradict angelic majesties testimony of the Apostle Peter "men who have accompanied us all the time" (Acts 1:21) while Peter was with all the Apostles.

Joseph and Matthias were in the room when Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

So, you call the Apostles all liars because all the remaining Apostles were with the Apostle Peter when Peter said:

​

Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us - one of these [must] become a witness with us of His resurrection.' So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias.​

(Acts 1:21-23)​

​

In the upper room occupied by Jesus' disciples who put forward Matthias and Joseph were Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James (Acts 1:13), and these disciples recognized Matthias and Joseph as disciples that were with them from the beginning, and not a single disciple contradicted Peter's prounouncement of "men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us".

Thus, Matthias and Joseph are at least two more people beyond the Apostles for a minimum total of 13 disciples who are specifically identified at the supper covered in John chapters 13-17; therefore, Lord Jesus Christ's "you" in John 15:16 and John 15:19 extends well beyond the Apostles, in Truth (John 14:6)!

Christ uses "you" to indicate all Christians in all time are chosen by God alone unto salvation as well as to bring the message of Christ's salvation to the world when King Jesus majestically decrees "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation). Your evasion of the King's decree is a terror.

You answered "Yes" to the question of "Do you think you are a friend of Jesus, @TomL?" as recorded in post #576, so you, @TomL, reveal your confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33) as you assert that in John 15:15-16, as shown below, that Jesus' first two "you" occurrences apply to you, @TomL personally, but that Jesus' second two "you" occurrences apply "exclusively to the apostles":

​

I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you​

(Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:15-16).​

​

Your heart's treasure results in "I have called you with that guy TomL friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You apostles here now did not choose Me but I chose exclusively you apostles" (the confused word of TomL).

No Scripture you quoted states man can choose to believe in God, so you conjure up the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

Your "repeat garbage" about the Word of God "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) indicates precisely what you believe or don't believe, TomL.

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE ONE TRUE HOLY GOD, LORD JESUS!!!

Give it repeating the same refuted arguments and false witness does not help you

its not the word of God but your twisting of it that is garbage

as I noted

Its not the word but your interpretation and the repeated refuted nonsense you jeep posting

Same old repeat garbage

Christ chose his disciples They were God's and God gave them to him

Nowhere is there any mention of unconditionality

Your handling of the word receive was refuted by first

the industry standard lexicon BAGD

e. take up, receive—α. τινὰ someone εἰς into (Wsd 8:18) lit. εἰς τὸ πλοῖον take someone (up) into the boat J 6:21. εἰς οἰκίαν receive someone into one’s house 2J 10. εἰς τὰ ἴδια into his own home J 19:27. Receive someone in the sense of recognizing his authority J 1:12; 5:43a, b;

Second it was refuted by the greek grammar where receive is in the active voice indicating it was something theyn did not something that happened to them as you ignorant of greek grammar tried to claim


Sorry you are just repeating false claims. There is nothing in the passage stating men have no ability to receive Christ

We know for a fact some did receive him

John 1:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

further John had just stated'

John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

examine how john uses the term receive here

John 5:43–47 (KJV 1900) — 43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

that should dispel your claim about Christ entering man although grammar already did


Yes active not passive

it indicated something they actively did

There was no passive reception as you falsely believe



Sorry no it does not

It does state those who received him were given the right to be children of God

it is regeneration which makes one a child of God

and we are all children of God by faith

Galatians 3:26 (KJV 1900) — 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.


in causing one to be born again not in choosing to receive christ

Again all are made children of God (born again) through faith

Galatians 3:26 (KJV 1900) — 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.



Repeating already addressed claim does not make them any stronger

John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)

This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.


Not even these noted Calvinist believe your claim

or you could have just believed scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Paul did not believe you either

You have failed to address rebuttal and simply repeat yourself over and over

 

[Kermos]

Give it repeating the same refuted arguments and false witness does not help you

its not the word of God but your twisting of it that is garbage

as I noted

Its not the word but your interpretation and the repeated refuted nonsense you jeep posting

Same old repeat garbage

Christ chose his disciples They were God's and God gave them to him

Nowhere is there any mention of unconditionality

Your handling of the word receive was refuted by first

the industry standard lexicon BAGD

e. take up, receive—α. τινὰ someone εἰς into (Wsd 8:18) lit. εἰς τὸ πλοῖον take someone (up) into the boat J 6:21. εἰς οἰκίαν receive someone into one’s house 2J 10. εἰς τὰ ἴδια into his own home J 19:27. Receive someone in the sense of recognizing his authority J 1:12; 5:43a, b;

Second it was refuted by the greek grammar where receive is in the active voice indicating it was something theyn did not something that happened to them as you ignorant of greek grammar tried to claim


Sorry you are just repeating false claims. There is nothing in the passage stating men have no ability to receive Christ

We know for a fact some did receive him

John 1:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

further John had just stated'

John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

examine how john uses the term receive here

John 5:43–47 (KJV 1900) — 43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

that should dispel your claim about Christ entering man although grammar already did


Yes active not passive

it indicated something they actively did

There was no passive reception as you falsely believe



Sorry no it does not

It does state those who received him were given the right to be children of God

it is regeneration which makes one a child of God

and we are all children of God by faith

Galatians 3:26 (KJV 1900) — 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.


in causing one to be born again not in choosing to receive christ

Again all are made children of God (born again) through faith

Galatians 3:26 (KJV 1900) — 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.



Repeating already addressed claim does not make them any stronger

John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)

This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.


Not even these noted Calvinist believe your claim

or you could have just believed scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Paul did not believe you either

You have failed to address rebuttal and simply repeat yourself over and over

You refuted nothing according to the Word of God. You continue practicing lawlessness (Matthew 7:21-23, Matthew 7:26-27) because you apply your concept of "garbage" to the Word of God, and the below proves it! You show no sign of repentance. See the blue text that shows how you add to the Word of God. It's really quite straightforward, you add to the Word of God in order to achieve your free-willian philosophy; in contrast, God has me proclaiming that the Word of God means precisely what He says.

No Christian calls the Word of God "repeat garbage", and we find you calling the Word of God “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) that God had me proclaim to you "repeat garbage" compounding your "Utter nonsense" about this wonderful Word of God!!!

The Word of God says "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments" (John 14:15), and you call the Word of God "repeat garbage".

God had me quote along with much more Word of God such as “he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21) which comes after your "John 3:3-8 continue reading" then quoting John 3:9–15, and you responded "repeat garbage" about this wonderful Word of God!!!

Regarding the "believeth" recorded in John 3:15, the Christ of us Christians lovingly declares “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) in response to the people asked Jesus “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God” (John 6:28); therefore, man does not work faith/belief inside of man thus causing man to believe in Lord Jesus, but God does work faith/belief inside of man thus causing man to believe in Lord Jesus (John 6:28-29).

Lord Jesus eliminates “the works of man” (John 6:28) entirely from the equation with His Powerful response “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), and the Apostle Paul is in accord with Jesus saying that God controls faith/belief unto salvation inside of man with absolutely no input by man:

by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast, for we are His work
(Ephesians 2:8-10).
​

You call "repeat garbage" this Word of God “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), but you didn't stop there.

You wrote "People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us" (you made it your heart's treasure by quoting it) about John 6:29, so your thoughts produce "This is the work of man that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the word of TomL) which is NOT keeping “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

Not only do you call "repeat garbage" this Word of God “This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), bur your heart proceeds to add to the Word of God producing the word of TomL instead "This is the work of man that you believe in Him whom He has sent"

You propounded "As for your verses First you simply repeat Christ choice of his disciples but nothing states Christ chose them unconditionally for salvation" respecting John 15:16-19, and again I perceive that you switched to use "disciples" as an in-situ replacement for "apostles", yet you contradict yourself in your self-will because you reviled these angelic majesties by effectively labeling the Apostles as deceivers with your "Nothing mentioned about Joseph and Matthias being in the audience on that ocassion" as recorded in post #645 of which your thoughts there daringly contradict angelic majesties testimony of the Apostle Peter "men who have accompanied us all the time" (Acts 1:21) while Peter was with all the Apostles.

Joseph and Matthias were in the room when Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

So, you call the Apostles all liars because all the remaining Apostles were with the Apostle Peter when Peter said:

Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us - one of these [must] become a witness with us of His resurrection.' So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias.
(Acts 1:21-23)
​

In the upper room occupied by Jesus' disciples who put forward Matthias and Joseph were Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James (Acts 1:13), and these disciples recognized Matthias and Joseph as disciples that were with them from the beginning, and not a single disciple contradicted Peter's prounouncement of "men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us".

Thus, Matthias and Joseph are at least two more people beyond the Apostles for a minimum total of 13 disciples who are specifically identified at the supper covered in John chapters 13-17; therefore, Lord Jesus Christ's "you" in John 15:16 and John 15:19 extends well beyond the Apostles, in Truth (John 14:6)!

Christ uses "you" to indicate all Christians in all time are chosen by God alone unto salvation as well as to bring the message of Christ's salvation to the world when King Jesus majestically decrees "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation). Your evasion of the King's decree is a terror.

You answered "Yes" to the question of "Do you think you are a friend of Jesus, @TomL?" as recorded in post #576, so you, @TomL, reveal your confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33) as you assert that in John 15:15-16, as shown below, that Jesus' first two "you" occurrences apply to you, @TomL personally, but that Jesus' second two "you" occurrences apply "exclusively to the apostles":

I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you
(Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:15-16).
​

Your heart's treasure results in "I have called you with that guy TomL friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You apostles here now did not choose Me but I chose exclusively you apostles" (the confused word of TomL).

No Scripture you quoted states man can choose to believe in God, so you conjure up the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

Your "repeat garbage" about the Word of God "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) indicates precisely what you believe or don't believe, TomL.

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE ONE TRUE HOLY GOD, LORD JESUS!!!

 

[Kermos]

Simply repeating your nonsense ignoring BADG and the grammar and commentators and context

BAGD refutes your meaning of receive

e. take up, receive—α. τινὰ someone εἰς into (Wsd 8:18) lit. εἰς τὸ πλοῖον take someone (up) into the boat J 6:21. εἰς οἰκίαν receive someone into one’s house 2J 10. εἰς τὰ ἴδια into his own home J 19:27. Receive someone in the sense of recognizing his authority J 1:12; 5:43a, b; 13:20a,

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 464.

Grammar and the active voice refutes you

2 3745 [e] 12 hosoi 12 ὅσοι 12 As many as 12 RelPro-NMP​

1161 [e] de δὲ however Conj​

2983 [e] elabon ἔλαβον received V-AIA-3P​

It is a 3rd person aorist active indicative

The active voice notes it is something they did not something which happened to them



WHAT IS ITS VOICE?

These inflectional endings also tell you whether you are doing the action or if it is being done to you. Take the sentence, “I will make a house,” (ποιήσω οἶκον). You will understand it better if I diagram it:


Active



Notice the direction the action is going, from the left to the right; from “I” to “house.” The verb tells you what I will do to the house. So I place an arrow over the verb pointing in the right direction of the action:




Edward W. Goodrick, Do It Yourself Hebrew and Greek: A Guide to Biblical Language Tools (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1980), x.

You have ignorantly twisted the grammar, willfully ignored the lexical definition by BDAG and twisted the passage to suit your tgheology while ignoring the fact that even your Calvinist peers do not agree with your claims As I noted​

The context refutes you

Calvinist commentators refute you

Received him not. Did not acknowledge him to be the Messiah. They rejected him and put him to death, agreeably to the prophecy, Is. 53:3, 4.

Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 178.

Received him not (αὐτον οὐ παρελαβον [auton ou parelabon]). Second aorist active indicative of παραλαμβανω [paralambanō], old verb to take to one’s side, common verb to welcome, the very verb used by Jesus in 14:3 of the welcome to his Father’s house. Cf. κατελαβεν [katelaben] in verse 5. Israel slew the Heir (Heb. 1:2) when he came, like the wicked husbandmen (Luke 20:14).

A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Jn 1:11.

context refutes you

John 1:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

receive refers to believing on him - his authority as the lexicon BAGD noted

Sorry you are simply repeating your sorry old claims which were shown insufficient

You have ignored Calvinist commentators, Calvinist Greek Scholars, industry standard lexicons, parallel texts

read your theology into passages where it did not exist.

Twisted passages by appeal to a non parallel text while mishandling an active voice verb as though it was a passive

Receive Christ is something they did not something that happened to them

the active voice refutes your claim

All your claims have been noted and refuted previously which you just t ignore

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-61559

Notice John 3:27 and the word "receive" as God caused brightfame52 to mention.

Spiritual things are received because they are effectually given by God to receive Jn 3:27

John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
The elect receives Grace from Christ because He is their Head with their fulness in Him Jn 1:16
And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
This Grace was given in Purpose to them in Christ their Head before the world began 2 Tim 1:9
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Your folly that man causes himself to receive (lambano) Christ in John 1:12-13 is evident by the following.

BAGD has lambano as "receive", so BAGD is A-OK with "receive". You conjure up false statements about the writings that God causes the Apostle John's to write as well as me to write.

Self-willed you (2 Peter 2:9-10), not free-willed you, truly self-willed you are unrepentant after you were shown your linguistic deception that the Greek word παρέλαβον (Strong's 3880 - paralambanó - to receive from) occurs as the source word for "received" in John 1:12.

Since you brought up "receive" of John 1:11, the Apostle used the word "receive" to illustrate man's inability to choose to receive [Christ] into one’s house, so to speak; therefore, the very specific Greek word that you brought up proves the error of your free-willian way.

Your linguistics are so faulty that you said paralambano is part of John 1:12, and when it was shown to you that paralambano is actually in John 1:11, not John 1:12, then afterward you have shown no sign of repentance nor apology for your deception.

John's words are "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13), and the word "received" is accurately translated from ἔλαβον (Strong's 2983 - lambanó - to take, receive), and, indeed, "received" is Aorist and active grammatically.

The Apostle indicates we "born of God" are the ones that God causes to "believe in His name" because we are the "children of God" (a.k.a. the "born of God") of whom are the ones that God causes us to be the "many as received Him" (John 1:12-13).

The Apostle John specifically disallowed your free-will to "receive" Christ in the passage with John's words of "nor of the will of man" (John 1:12-13).

"RECEIVE" DEFINITION BY EXAMPLE:

The man received a punch to his face dislocating his septum - not by choice - but in the fury of his assailant’s surprise attack.

The pedestrian received a series of traumatic injuries - not by choice - but as a result of the car jumping the curb.

A lover receives a love letter - not by choice - but in gladness.

Receive means a thing that unavoidably came in from a source to a recipient - receive is not a choice like accept - receive just happens.

"RECEIVE" DEFINITION BY DICTIONARY:

1. TRANSITIVE VERB When you receive something, you get it after someone gives it to you or sends it to you. (Collins COBUILD English Usage (c) HarperCollins Publishers 1992, 2004, 2011, 2012)

There is a keyword in the definition, which is "after".

"RECEIVE" USAGE IN SCRIPTURE:

The Apostle John wrote "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13).

The Apostle John wrote receiving Christ is a result of being born of God in John 1:12-13.

The Apostle John wrote receiving Christ is not an act of the will of man in John 1:12-13.

The ones who received Christ are the ones "who were born" "of God".

Let's follow the blessed chain linking these people of whom John wrote which is the "born of God" (John 1:13, John 3:3-8) links with "believe in His name" (John 1:12, John 6:29) links with "many as received Him" (John 1:12, John 9).

Each of these are exactly the same people:

• "many as received Him"
• "children of God"
• "believe in His name"
• "born of God"

See that John explicitly excludes "the will of man" as the cause for all of these.

John 1:12-13 shows that you cannot cause yourself to receive Jesus.

John 1:12-13 shows that God causes people to receive Jesus.

John 1:12-13 shows that you cannot cause yourself to believe in Jesus.

John 1:12-13 shows that God causes people to believe in Jesus.

Again, here is the passage:

"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13).

"Peter [said] to them, 'Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.'" (Acts 2:38-39, this was Peter's response after the people who were pierced to the heart by Peter's proclamation of the Word of God inquired "Brethren, what shall we do" in Acts 2:14-37)

Peter issued the command "think differently from now on" (repent) and the command "be immersed in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins" and here is where "receive" comes in, "you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" which is an act of God.

The word "receive" means "unavoidably enters"; on the other hand, the word "accept" means "allowed to enter".

The work of "accept" is specifically disallowed in the passage with "nor of the will of man" because man causes not man to be "born of God" nor man causes to "believe in His name", whom are the "children of God", nor man causes to be the "many as received Him" (John 1:12-13).

The grammatical sense of the word "receive" indicates Christ "unavoidably enters" a joyfully receptive person according to the Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24) because the Apostle indicates the "born of God" are the ones that God causes to "believe in His name", whom are the "children of God", whom are the ones that God causes to be the "many as received Him" (John 1:12-13).

Since you are so very focused on the BAGD throughout your prior post, even in your closing paragraph:

e. take up, receive—α. τινὰ someone εἰς into (Wsd 8:18) lit. εἰς τὸ πλοῖον take someone (up) into the boat J 6:21. εἰς οἰκίαν receive someone into one’s house 2J 10. εἰς τὰ ἴδια into his own home J 19:27. Receive someone in the sense of recognizing his authority J 1:12; 5:43a, b;
​

then the following needs to be recognized:

• that God controls the "received" and the "recognizing his authority" are entirely controlled by God for it is written "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13) - THE CONCEPT EMPHASIZED IN YOUR CLOSING PARAGRAPH IS NOT CONTROLLED BY MAN.
• that BAGD extended the "take up, receive" definition of lambano in your heart with "receive someone into one’s house" as evident in your quotation of Scripture that you disbelieve "And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. (Acts 16:30–31) see "one’s house" in BAGD along with thy house (Acts 16:30-31) as a relation, and this Paul wrote that God causes people to believe and that the believe is not of yourselves/man with:
  
  
  by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast, for we are His work
  (Ephesians 2:8-10).
  ​
  So, Paul dispelled your deception that the "Believe" in Acts 16:30-31 was of man to the glory of man, just is the conclusion of your heart's treasure. Truly God gets the glory for us believers believing in Jesus.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Freewill is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE ONE HOLY SOVEREIGN TRUE GOD, LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!

 

[brightfame52]

Of course the context has nothing to do with the ability to believe spiritual truth and concerns Christ's baptizing of more men than John

John 3:22–30 (NASB 2020) — 22 After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea; and there He was spending time with them and baptizing. 23 Now John also was baptizing in Aenon, near Salim, because there was an abundance of water there; and people were coming and being baptized—24 for John had not yet been thrown into prison. 25 Then a matter of dispute developed on the part of John’s disciples with a Jew about purification. 26 And they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, He who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you have testified—behold, He is baptizing and all the people are coming to Him.” 27 John replied, “A person can receive not even one thing unless it has been given to him from heaven. 28 You yourselves are my witnesses that I said, ‘I am not the Christ,’ but, ‘I have been sent ahead of Him.’ 29 He who has the bride is the groom; but the friend of the groom, who stands and listens to him, rejoices greatly because of the groom’s voice. So this joy of mine has been made full. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

See man by nature cant receive the things of God, or the Spiritual things of God 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

They must be spiritually discerned, unfortunately the natural man doesnt have the Spirit.

 

[civic]

Give it repeating the same refuted arguments and false witness does not help you

its not the word of God but your twisting of it that is garbage

as I noted

Its not the word but your interpretation and the repeated refuted nonsense you jeep posting

Same old repeat garbage

Christ chose his disciples They were God's and God gave them to him

Nowhere is there any mention of unconditionality

Your handling of the word receive was refuted by first

the industry standard lexicon BAGD

e. take up, receive—α. τινὰ someone εἰς into (Wsd 8:18) lit. εἰς τὸ πλοῖον take someone (up) into the boat J 6:21. εἰς οἰκίαν receive someone into one’s house 2J 10. εἰς τὰ ἴδια into his own home J 19:27. Receive someone in the sense of recognizing his authority J 1:12; 5:43a, b;

Second it was refuted by the greek grammar where receive is in the active voice indicating it was something theyn did not something that happened to them as you ignorant of greek grammar tried to claim


Sorry you are just repeating false claims. There is nothing in the passage stating men have no ability to receive Christ

We know for a fact some did receive him

John 1:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

further John had just stated'

John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

examine how john uses the term receive here

John 5:43–47 (KJV 1900) — 43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

that should dispel your claim about Christ entering man although grammar already did


Yes active not passive

it indicated something they actively did

There was no passive reception as you falsely believe



Sorry no it does not

It does state those who received him were given the right to be children of God

it is regeneration which makes one a child of God

and we are all children of God by faith

Galatians 3:26 (KJV 1900) — 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.


in causing one to be born again not in choosing to receive christ

Again all are made children of God (born again) through faith

Galatians 3:26 (KJV 1900) — 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.



Repeating already addressed claim does not make them any stronger

John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)

This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.


Not even these noted Calvinist believe your claim

or you could have just believed scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Paul did not believe you either

You have failed to address rebuttal and simply repeat yourself over and over

The irony in using Calvin to refute a modern day calvinist who doesn't even know what Calvin taught or believed.

This is the meaning in John 6:29 which the Netbible captures and the calvinist misinterprets via eisegesis.

John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)

If they would only read some other translations. Its a good thing to compare translations for they show the variant readings of any given text.


NET Bible
Jesus replied, "This is the deed God requires--to believe in the one whom he sent."

and the Weymouth as well

Weymouth New Testament
"This," replied Jesus, "is above all the thing that God requires--that you should be believers in Him whom He has sent."

Good News Translation
Jesus answered, "What God wants you to do is to believe in the one he sent."

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Yeshua answered and said to them: “This is the service of God, that you trust in him whom he has sent.”

Contemporary English Version
Jesus answered, "God wants you to have faith in the one he sent."

New Living Translation
Jesus told them, “This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent.”

 

[brightfame52]

Notice John 3:27 and the word "receive" as God caused brightfame52 to mention.



Your folly that man causes himself to receive (lambano) Christ in John 1:12-13 is evident by the following.

BAGD has lambano as "receive", so BAGD is A-OK with "receive". You conjure up false statements about the writings that God causes the Apostle John's to write as well as me to write.

Self-willed you (2 Peter 2:9-10), not free-willed you, truly self-willed you are unrepentant after you were shown your linguistic deception that the Greek word παρέλαβον (Strong's 3880 - paralambanó - to receive from) occurs as the source word for "received" in John 1:12.

Since you brought up "receive" of John 1:11, the Apostle used the word "receive" to illustrate man's inability to choose to receive [Christ] into one’s house, so to speak; therefore, the very specific Greek word that you brought up proves the error of your free-willian way.

Your linguistics are so faulty that you said paralambano is part of John 1:12, and when it was shown to you that paralambano is actually in John 1:11, not John 1:12, then afterward you have shown no sign of repentance nor apology for your deception.

John's words are "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13), and the word "received" is accurately translated from ἔλαβον (Strong's 2983 - lambanó - to take, receive), and, indeed, "received" is Aorist and active grammatically.

The Apostle indicates we "born of God" are the ones that God causes to "believe in His name" because we are the "children of God" (a.k.a. the "born of God") of whom are the ones that God causes us to be the "many as received Him" (John 1:12-13).

The Apostle John specifically disallowed your free-will to "receive" Christ in the passage with John's words of "nor of the will of man" (John 1:12-13).

"RECEIVE" DEFINITION BY EXAMPLE:

The man received a punch to his face dislocating his septum - not by choice - but in the fury of his assailant’s surprise attack.

The pedestrian received a series of traumatic injuries - not by choice - but as a result of the car jumping the curb.

A lover receives a love letter - not by choice - but in gladness.

Receive means a thing that unavoidably came in from a source to a recipient - receive is not a choice like accept - receive just happens.

"RECEIVE" DEFINITION BY DICTIONARY:

1. TRANSITIVE VERB When you receive something, you get it after someone gives it to you or sends it to you. (Collins COBUILD English Usage (c) HarperCollins Publishers 1992, 2004, 2011, 2012)

There is a keyword in the definition, which is "after".

"RECEIVE" USAGE IN SCRIPTURE:

The Apostle John wrote "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13).

The Apostle John wrote receiving Christ is a result of being born of God in John 1:12-13.

The Apostle John wrote receiving Christ is not an act of the will of man in John 1:12-13.

The ones who received Christ are the ones "who were born" "of God".

Let's follow the blessed chain linking these people of whom John wrote which is the "born of God" (John 1:13, John 3:3-8) links with "believe in His name" (John 1:12, John 6:29) links with "many as received Him" (John 1:12, John 9).

Each of these are exactly the same people:

• "many as received Him"
• "children of God"
• "believe in His name"
• "born of God"

See that John explicitly excludes "the will of man" as the cause for all of these.

John 1:12-13 shows that you cannot cause yourself to receive Jesus.

John 1:12-13 shows that God causes people to receive Jesus.

John 1:12-13 shows that you cannot cause yourself to believe in Jesus.

John 1:12-13 shows that God causes people to believe in Jesus.

Again, here is the passage:

"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13).

"Peter [said] to them, 'Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.'" (Acts 2:38-39, this was Peter's response after the people who were pierced to the heart by Peter's proclamation of the Word of God inquired "Brethren, what shall we do" in Acts 2:14-37)

Peter issued the command "think differently from now on" (repent) and the command "be immersed in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins" and here is where "receive" comes in, "you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" which is an act of God.

The word "receive" means "unavoidably enters"; on the other hand, the word "accept" means "allowed to enter".

The work of "accept" is specifically disallowed in the passage with "nor of the will of man" because man causes not man to be "born of God" nor man causes to "believe in His name", whom are the "children of God", nor man causes to be the "many as received Him" (John 1:12-13).

The grammatical sense of the word "receive" indicates Christ "unavoidably enters" a joyfully receptive person according to the Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24) because the Apostle indicates the "born of God" are the ones that God causes to "believe in His name", whom are the "children of God", whom are the ones that God causes to be the "many as received Him" (John 1:12-13).

Since you are so very focused on the BAGD throughout your prior post, even in your closing paragraph:

​

e. take up, receive—α. τινὰ someone εἰς into (Wsd 8:18) lit. εἰς τὸ πλοῖον take someone (up) into the boat J 6:21. εἰς οἰκίαν receive someone into one’s house 2J 10. εἰς τὰ ἴδια into his own home J 19:27. Receive someone in the sense of recognizing his authority J 1:12; 5:43a, b;​

​

then the following needs to be recognized:

• that God controls the "received" and the "recognizing his authority" are entirely controlled by God for it is written "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13) - THE CONCEPT EMPHASIZED IN YOUR CLOSING PARAGRAPH IS NOT CONTROLLED BY MAN.
• that BAGD extended the "take up, receive" definition of lambano in your heart with "receive someone into one’s house" as evident in your quotation of Scripture that you disbelieve "And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. (Acts 16:30–31) see "one’s house" in BAGD along with thy house (Acts 16:30-31) as a relation, and this Paul wrote that God causes people to believe and that the believe is not of yourselves/man with:
  
  
  by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast, for we are His work
  (Ephesians 2:8-10).​
  So, Paul dispelled your deception that the "Believe" in Acts 16:30-31 was of man to the glory of man, just is the conclusion of your heart's treasure. Truly God gets the glory for us believers believing in Jesus.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Freewill is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE ONE HOLY SOVEREIGN TRUE GOD, LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!

Only the saints, the set apart ones receive Gods words Deut 33:3

Yea, he loved the people; all his saints are in thy hand: and they sat down at thy feet; every one shall receive of thy words.

So when the disciples received the words of God in Christ, it was proof they were saints set apart

Jn 17:8

For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

1 Cor 15:1

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

These Corinthians who received the Gospel Paul preached had to be regenerate, born of God to do that, because of what 1 Cor 2:14 states