An Article on free will

[Eternally-Grateful]

This is the essential point.

Calvinists can only think of gift in the terms of gifting something irresistible like a bullet to the head.

yes, if only they could see that

 

[GodsGrace]

Lets look at the tax collector

What kind of faith did he have?

He cried out. not knowing how God would answer.

How about the man who wanted his child Healed.. I believe Lord. help me in my unbelief.

Jesus said faith of a mustard seed can move mountains..

I'm sorry EG.
I don't understand your point.

 

[synergy]

When you deny that salvation, faith, and grace are from God,

Produce the quote that makes you say that.

you end up negating the very tension Scripture presents-that while humans are called to respond, it is ultimately God who saves, so that no one may boast (Ephesians 2:8–9).

Scripture holds both truths together-
“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God—not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.” (Ephesians 2:8–9)

This is one of many divine paradoxes in the Word-God initiates, yet man must respond. Ignoring either side distorts the balance the Bible maintains throughout.

Other than that, we are on the same page.

J.

Again, works of the Law were stopped being practiced 2000 years ago. If you have colleagues still practicing works of the Law then by all means tell them.

The Post you're responding to talked about Preachers. Do you have anything to say about that?

 

[Johann]

so we need to work to be saved?

You don't believe there are Imperatives in Scripture that MUST be obeyed?!

J.

 

[Johann]

Produce the quote that makes you say that.

Just did, in the second line.

J.

 

[synergy]

Just did, in the second line.

J.

Again, works of the Law were stopped being practiced 2000 years ago. I'm not practicing them. If you have colleagues still practicing works of the Law then by all means tell them. I personally do not know of anyone doing so.

The Post you responded to was talking about Preachers. Do you have anything to say about that?

 

[Johann]

Again, works of the Law were stopped being practiced 2000 years ago. I'm not practicing them. If you have colleagues still practicing works of the Law then by all means tell them. I personally do not know of anyone doing so.

The Post you responded was talking about Preachers. Do you have anything to say about that?

Is faith a gift? Salvation, grace?

J.

 

[Jim]

We're discussing a small matter re faith...a nuance.

Interesting that you might think anything about faith would be a small matter. But whatever.

 

[synergy]

Is faith a gift? Salvation, grace?

J.

One more word about Preachers that figure in our "initial salvation" before I answer your question.

In the Parable of the Sower (found in Matthew 13:1–23, Mark 4:1–20, and Luke 8:4–15), the Sower represents anyone who spreads the word of God. However, in its most direct and primary interpretation, the Sower is Jesus Himself, as He was the one preaching the good news of the Kingdom during His ministry.

Jesus explains that the "seed" is the word of God, and the different types of soil represent the hearts of those who hear it. So while Jesus is the ultimate Sower, anyone who shares the gospel—pastors, missionaries, believers—also takes on the role of a sower, planting God’s word in others.

 

[GodsGrace]

Interesting that you might think anything about faith would be a small matter. But whatever.

Why is it important to understand that, according to you, faith is NOT a gift?

What difference does it make?

 

[GodsGrace]

@Jim

To Miss Fran, it would be Catholicism, Pentecostalism, Methodism, and a host of other "ism" except Calvinism, anything but that cursed word Calvinism~and high Calvinism is even worse!

As you might be aware RB...."High Calvinism" is the correct teaching.
It's just that it's a bit difficult to digest...
so some more pleasant words are used now,,,BUT
the outcome is exactly the same...no matter how you wish to describe it.
A rose is still a rose.

Calvinism surely is not mainline since all other Protestants reject its teachings.

And, BTW, I'm not a "miss".
Not that there's anything wrong with it...
it just does not properly represent me.
And I hope you mean MISS FRAN in a nice way...
it sounds a bit pejorative.

 

[Jim]

Why is it important to understand that, according to you, faith is NOT a gift?

What difference does it make?

Is truth important? Does it matter? Faith is what separates the saved from the unsaved. IF one does not know what it is or how it is obtained, can one really know that he has been saved?

 

[GodsGrace]

Is truth important? Does it matter? Faith is what separates the saved from the unsaved. IF one does not know what it is or how it is obtained, can one really know that he has been saved?

Of course one can know he is saved.
Do I know about God?
Do I wish to follow Him?
Do I do my best to keep His commands?

What else is necessary?
That I understand theology?

Let's dig deeper if you don't mind...

IF I have faith...
what difference does it make where it comes from?

I don't understand the difference and you haven't explained it.

We KNOW WHAT FAITH IS....
what is being discussed is its source.

 

[Jim]

Yes, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, and allow others to do the same.

J.

How am I not allowing others to do the same?

 

[Jim]

IF I have faith...
what difference does it make where it comes from?

If you do not know the source, how do you know for certain that you have it?

The importance of things such as this is not so much in you personally, but rather in what you teach others. If what you teach is not truth, it could matter a lot in their reaction to it.

The Judaizers thought that they were saved simply because they were Jews and were the chosen ones of God. Did that matter? Paul obviously thought so.

 

[synergy]

How am I not allowing others to do the same?

He has a tendency to say things that sound falsely accusatory and unwarranted but he backs off when he is called out on them.

 

[Johann]

One more word about Preachers that figure in our "initial salvation" before I answer your question.

In the Parable of the Sower (found in Matthew 13:1–23, Mark 4:1–20, and Luke 8:4–15), the Sower represents anyone who spreads the word of God. However, in its most direct and primary interpretation, the Sower is Jesus Himself, as He was the one preaching the good news of the Kingdom during His ministry.

Jesus explains that the "seed" is the word of God, and the different types of soil represent the hearts of those who hear it. So while Jesus is the ultimate Sower, anyone who shares the gospel—pastors, missionaries, believers—also takes on the role of a sower, planting God’s word in others.

Yes, the Parable of the Sower emphasizes the external preaching of the Word, but the Scriptures also make clear that without the internal work of the Holy Spirit, the seed cannot truly bear fruit. You seem to keep on avoiding the paradoxes brother. And like you, I choose my words carefully.

The Holy Spirit and His work seldom mentioned--

John 16:8–11 – The Spirit convicts the world
“And when He is come, He will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment.”
Greek: ἐλέγξει τὸν κόσμον – “He will convict/expose the world”
The Spirit initiates conviction, preparing the heart to recognize its need and respond in faith.

John 6:44 – No one comes unless drawn
“No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him...”
Greek: ἑλκύσῃ – “draw,” not force, but to attract or pull.
This drawing is accomplished through the Spirit, as Jesus says in v.63:
“It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing...”

1 Corinthians 2:12–14 – Spiritual truth must be spiritually discerned
“Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we might know the things freely given to us of God...”
“The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God...”
The “natural man” (ψυχικὸς ἄνθρωπος) cannot grasp the things of God unless the Spirit enables understanding, including faith.

1 Thessalonians 1:5–6 – The gospel came in power and in the Holy Spirit
“Our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance…”
The Spirit’s presence confirmed and activated the Word in the hearers.

Titus 3:5–6 – Regeneration is by the Spirit
“He saved us… by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit.”
Greek: ἀνακαινώσεως Πνεύματος Ἁγίου – “renewal of the Holy Spirit”
This is the inward new life that enables faith and repentance.

Romans 8:14–16 – The Spirit bears witness that we are children of God
“For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God… The Spirit himself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God.”
The Spirit both leads and confirms faith, not only initiating salvation but assuring it.

So yes, preaching is essential—faith comes by hearing (Rom 10:17)—but hearing is not enough unless the Holy Spirit convicts, draws, renews, and reveals.

I’d like to bring the Holy Spirit into this conversation. If we’re asking whether faith is a gift, then we also need to ask-- when does synergism begin?

At what point in the process of salvation does human cooperation enter, and how does that relate to the Spirit’s role in drawing, convicting, and enabling faith?


It seems there’s a misunderstanding here.
You’re suggesting that synergism begins at the aorist point of salvation--but I would disagree.

I believe that moment marks monergism--where God alone acts to bring about new birth.

Only after that does synergism begin, when our will, now made alive, is fully yielded to the gracious will of Christ and the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit. To obey the Imperatives of Christ Jesus.

Think it through--see if that distinction clarifies our difference.

Shalom to you and family.

PS-apologies for the Caps, letters too small on this forum.

Praise Abba for His word!

J.

 

[GodsGrace]

If you do not know the source, how do you know for certain that you have it?

The importance of things such as this is not so much in you personally, but rather in what you teach others. If what you teach is not truth, it could matter a lot in their reaction to it.

The Judaizers thought that they were saved simply because they were Jews and were the chosen ones of God. Did that matter? Paul obviously thought so.

Can't disagree, although I don't care for the idea that we come here to teach...
I guess that is what we end up doing.

So here's a verse I like:
James 3:1
1 Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.


As I stated in a previous post to you....I believe very much that we must get important matters correctly and will discuss at length, if necessary.

Because we have differing opinions as to the source of faith...does not negate our having it.

We can know we have faith even though we may not know its source.

From my understanding of Ephesians 2:8...I believe those theologians that believe all 3 are gifts from God...
grace, salvation and faith.

Faith is a gift because it's not within our power to produce it.
Grace is not within our power to produce...
neither is salvation....
and neither is faith....

We can only DESIRE these attributes.

 

[Johann]

He has a tendency to say things that sound falsely accusatory and unwarranted but he backs off when he is called out on them.

Thank God I noticed this.

Just a heads-up--if I don’t respond to you at times, please don’t take it personally.
I’m here to be edified and to make the most of the time, and I’d like to focus on discussions that really stretch me and help me dig deeper into God’s Word.

The one "backing off" here is you.

Thanks for understanding.

I don't have time for little foxes misrepresenting me behind my back.

J.

 

[Johann]

Can't disagree, although I don't care for the idea that we come here to teach...
I guess that is what we end up doing.

So here's a verse I like:
James 3:1
1 Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.


As I stated in a previous post to you....I believe very much that we must get important matters correctly and will discuss at length, if necessary.

Because we have differing opinions as to the source of faith...does not negate our having it.

We can know we have faith even though we may not know its source.

From my understanding of Ephesians 2:8...I believe those theologians that believe all 3 are gifts from God...
grace, salvation and faith.

Faith is a gift because it's not within our power to produce it.
Grace is not within our power to produce...
neither is salvation....
and neither is faith....

We can only DESIRE these attributes.

Is it me, or do you also find the letters too small @GodsGrace?

J.