An Article on free will

Jim said:
The very definition of faith given in Hebrews 11:1 is proof enough for me. The declaration by Paul concerning faith in Romans 10 is proof that it is not a gift from God.
Click to expand...
Hebrews 11:1-3 (NKJV) 1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a [good] testimony. 3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

Romans 10:8-10 (NKJV) 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

It’s by having faith in Jesus Christ that we are saved. Now how do we obtain this faith? …by hearing the Word of God—by studying it with understanding, seeking it out with all your heart.
Romans 10:17 (NKJV) So then faith [comes] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

God’s unmerited favor (grace) is the free gift given to those who have heard His Word (or, in my opinion, have read and studied His Word and BELIEVE it—believe in Jesus and all His promises to us). Check out, for example, this Wonderful promise given right here by our Father:
1 John 2:24-25 (NKJV) 24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that He has promised us--eternal life.

Selah
 
Johann said:
2. But Not All Faith Saves - Even Demons “Believe” Right Jim?
James 2:19 — “You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!”
Greek: καὶ τὰ δαιμόνια πιστεύουσιν καὶ φρίσσουσιν
πιστεύουσιν = present active indicative of πιστεύω (“they believe”)
Demons have intellectual acknowledgment of God’s reality, but not saving trust or submission.
Click to expand...
Yes, therefore they do not have faith. Faith is, by definition, both intellectual acknowledgement and trust.
 
Red Baker said:
@Johann

I do, and would agree with much of what you say, but do disagree little. Without question after one is regenerated by the Spirit of the Living God, then God has called them to have good works in their life, so that their light would shine forth in a very dark world.

Titus 3:8​

“This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.”

Ephesians 2:10​

“For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”

2nd Timothy 2:19​

“Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”

James 2:26​

“For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”

But, being born of God is 100% of God.
Click to expand...
Being born of God requires the free will choice of man to ACCEPT the existence of God and His gift of salvation...
open to whomever desires it:

John 3:16
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Man is ABLE to seek God.
Hebrews 11:6
6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

It is YOUR problem if you don't understand the words WORLD and WHOSOEVER.
But that is what the NT states.

IRRESISTIBLE GRACE does not exist in Christian theology.
God forces salvation on no one...but offers it as a gift to those that want it.
 
Selah said:
Hebrews 11:1-3 (NKJV) 1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a [good] testimony. 3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

Romans 10:8-10 (NKJV) 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

It’s by having faith in Jesus Christ that we are saved. Now how do we obtain this faith? …by hearing the Word of God—by studying it with understanding, seeking it out with all your heart.
Romans 10:17 (NKJV) So then faith [comes] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

God’s unmerited favor (grace) is the free gift given to those who have heard His Word (or, in my opinion, have read and studied His Word and BELIEVE it—believe in Jesus and all His promises to us). Check out, for example, this Wonderful promise given right here by our Father:
1 John 2:24-25 (NKJV) 24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that He has promised us--eternal life.

Selah
Click to expand...
I don't know what your conclusion is relative to whether or not faith is a gift. Do you believe that faith is a gift?
 
GodsGrace said:
Being born of God requires the free will choice of man to ACCEPT the existence of God and His gift of salvation...
open to whomever desires it:

John 3:16
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Man is ABLE to seek God.
Hebrews 11:6
6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

It is YOUR problem if you don't understand the words WORLD and WHOSOEVER.
But that is what the NT states.

IRRESISTIBLE GRACE does not exist in Christian theology.
God forces salvation on no one...but offers it as a gift to those that want it.
Click to expand...
Human volition replete in Scripture.

J.
 
Jim said:
What is "Mainline Christianity"?
Click to expand...
Good question.

I'd say all the Christian tenets that we agree on.

JESUS IS GOD
JESUS IS OUR ATONEMENT
WE ARE BORN IN NEED OF SALVATION
JESUS WAS RESURRECTED IN BODY (AND SPIRIT OF COURSE)
GOD IS TRIUNE
JESUS WAS BOTH HUMAN AND DIVINE
HE INSTITUTED COMMUNION
THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS

That's all I could think of right now.

ANY deviation from the above, IMHO,,,is diverting from mainline Christianity.
I also believe that any teaching that is new and is NOT found in the early church can also
be designated as not being mainline.

Maybe I mean all doctrine that comes from the early church.
It's unfortunate that when we declare ourselves to be Protestant, the other person cannot know exactly what we believe....
 
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GodsGrace said:
Maybe I mean all doctrine that comes from the early church.
It's unfortunate that when we declare ourselves to be Protestant, the other person cannot know exactly what we believe....
Click to expand...
You have to be careful with that. So much of the NT scriptures are there to correct faulty doctrine that arose. Just as faulty doctrine existed even while the apostles were alive and teaching, faulty doctrine exists within much of the writings from the early "church faithers".
 
Selah said:
Hebrews 11:1-3 (NKJV) 1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a [good] testimony. 3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

Romans 10:8-10 (NKJV) 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Click to expand...

Look at Romans 10:8-10
If we BELIEVE.......that comes from man......
we will be saved......that comes from God....

What is needed to be saved?

We need faith to be saved.
Salvation comes from God....
so....faith must be a gift, since faith is needed to be saved.

Not sure you agree.
And, in the end, it doesn't really matter...( in the grand scheme of things).


Selah said:
It’s by having faith in Jesus Christ that we are saved. Now how do we obtain this faith? …by hearing the Word of God—by studying it with understanding, seeking it out with all your heart.
Romans 10:17 (NKJV) So then faith [comes] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

God’s unmerited favor (grace) is the free gift given to those who have heard His Word (or, in my opinion, have read and studied His Word and BELIEVE it—believe in Jesus and all His promises to us). Check out, for example, this Wonderful promise given right here by our Father:
1 John 2:24-25 (NKJV) 24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that He has promised us--eternal life.

Selah
Click to expand...
 
Jim said:
You have to be careful with that. So much of the NT scriptures are there to correct faulty doctrine that arose. Just as faulty doctrine existed even while the apostles were alive and teaching, faulty doctrine exists within much of the writings from the early "church faithers".
Click to expand...
There is no faulty doctrine in the ECFs.
Only some that wrote but were gnostics.
The ECFs are those such as Ignatius of Antioch...
Justin Martyr...Clement of Rome.

They were taught by the Apostles.
THOSE are the ones to whom I'm referencing.

BEFORE different ideas began to circulate.
First couple of hundred years or so.

They all agreed at that time and there was no dissention...
as came later on.

Gnosticism had already begun in the NT times. John was concerned with this.
I'm aware of this.
 
GodsGrace said:
Look at Romans 10:8-10
If we BELIEVE.......that comes from man......
we will be saved......that comes from God....

What is needed to be saved?

We need faith to be saved.
Salvation comes from God....
so....faith must be a gift, since faith is needed to be saved.

Not sure you agree.
And, in the end, it doesn't really matter...( in the grand scheme of things).
Click to expand...
Ya know what? I think we’re all pretty much on the same page. :giggle:
 
Jim said:
Does it matter if we are wrong? Yes. Will being wrong keep us from being saved. Not necessarily.
Click to expand...
I don't believe doctrine will save us...so I agree with your the last part of your second sentence.
We can be wrong and still be saved.

Being wrong in small matters is also not really too important for me, which is why I don't debate everything -
like I used to when I first joined these forums back about 10 years ago.

Here's what has become important to me:
THE ERRORS OF REFORMED/CALVINIST THEOLOGY
OSAS
WORKS

Here's why:
Calvinism changes the nature and character of God.
I believe this system to be blasphemous.

The NT teaches that salvation can be forfeited.
Some believe this is impossible.
This is a dangerous teaching for new Christians.

Some state that Jesus did it all and nothing is required from us.
I believe we are taught to obey God and Jesus left us with some works to do.
So I believe we are to do good works for the Kingdom...whatever they may be.
Not stating this is teaching disobedience.

So, pretty much, I stay with these topics nowadays.
 
Jim said:
That is naive. Paul even corrected Peter.
Click to expand...
Paul corrected Peter?

So are we not to trust the NT??
Or are we not to trust Peter?

Let's put it this way:
I trust those that were taught by the Apostles MORE than I trust any new-fangled teaching of this modern era.

The ECFs agreed on ALL major doctrine.

I don't believe myself to be naive.
Naive means to be unaware of a condition...
I'm not unaware of anything in the early church.
 
Jim said:
I agree, but then who defines what are small matters?
Click to expand...
We're discussing a small matter re faith...a nuance.
Because we have it,,,no matter what.
Maybe we discuss because we're interested in theology....
I don't think because we enjoy arguing.
Debate is good,,,it makes us think.
At times it happens that we debate a certain topic and it leads us
to learn something new...or leads to a different topic.

I'd say that big matters are what I had posted before.
I tend to believe that we could agree on what is a small matter and what is a big matter.

If I told you Jesus is not God...
THAT would be a big matter.
 

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