An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
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GodsGrace
Well-known member
We're discussing Ephesians 2:8 in reference to what the gifts are:
Ephesians 2:8 NASB
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Ephesians 2:8 Italian...E Dio Disse....La Bibbia....Edizione San Paolo
8Infatti siete salvi per la grazia, tramite la fede: cio' non proviene da voi, ma e' dono di Dio.
Translation:
In fact, you are saved by grace, through or by way of, faith: and this does not come from, you, but IT IS a gift of God.
What does not come from us?
Faith. Faith is the gift. The word CIO' is applicable to what comes immediately preceding it.....faith....LA FEDE.
Grace is naturally a gift from God...God's grace falls on all.
And salvation is certainly a gift from God...thus the sacrifice of Jesus, planned by God from the beginning of time because He knew Adam would fail.
So all 3 are gifts....grace, salvation, and faith.
I hope this is helpful....
but I'm sure @Johann will have much more to say about this in much more detail.
Johann
Well-known member
Perché, pensi che io sia una studiosa sorella? Ma grazie per l'opportunità, felice di aiutare---e la fede È un dono!. @GodsGrace
Edizione San Paolo (La Bibbia – E Dio disse)
Infatti siete salvi per la grazia, tramite la fede: ciò non proviene da voi, ma è dono di Dio.
Phrase Role in the Sentence
“Infatti siete salvi” Present tense passive form of essere salvati (verb phrase)
“per la grazia” Prepositional phrase—means by which the salvation happens
“tramite la fede” Prepositional phrase—instrumentality of faith
“ciò” Demonstrative pronoun (“this”)—refers back to the entire idea
“non proviene da voi” Verb phrase—"does not come from you" (proviene = 3rd sing. of provenire)
“ma è dono di Dio” Coordinating clause—“but is the gift of God” (è = copula verb)
What is “il dono di Dio”?
In Italian, the structure mirrors the Greek:
“ciò... è dono di Dio” = “this... is the gift of God.”
So what is “ciò”?
It does not grammatically point to a single noun like grazia or fede (both feminine).
Instead, “ciò” is neuter, referring to the entire preceding verbal idea:
“essere salvi per la grazia, tramite la fede”
(“to be saved by grace through faith”)
Therefore--
The gift of God (il dono di Dio) in the Italian structure is the entire process expressed by the verbal clause:
“siete salvi per la grazia, tramite la fede.”
It is not just the verb “siete salvi” by itself, but the compound reality of salvation by grace through faith.
Monergistico, e DOPO la salvezza sinergistico, poiché ci sono imperativi da obbedire!
Monergistic, and AFTER salvation synergistic, since there are imperatives to be obeyed!
And no one understands me.
J.
civic
Well-known member
Barnes the Calvinist Theologian agrees below- faith is mans responsibility.
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
This is the work of God - This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth, Romans 10:4.
conclusion: gift, salvation and this are all in the nominative case is in agreement therefor they point to salvation as the gift not faith.
And AT Robertson the premier NT Greek Scholar below agrees with me.
For by grace (τῃ γαρ χαριτι [tēi gar chariti]). Explanatory reason. “By the grace” already mentioned in verse 5 and so with the article. Through faith (δια πιστεως [dia pisteōs]). This phrase he adds in repeating what he said in verse 5 to make it plainer. “Grace” is God’s part, “faith” ours. And that (και τουτο [kai touto]). Neuter, not feminine ταυτη [tautē], and so refers not to πιστις [pistis] (feminine) or to χαρις [charis] (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows that salvation does not have its source (ἐξ ὑμων [ex humōn], out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God’s gift (δωρον [dōron]) and not the result of our work.11 A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Eph 2:8.
conclusion: gift, salvation and this are all in the nominative case is in agreement therefor they point to salvation as the gift not faith.
1- salvation - being saved is by grace
2- salvation by grace comes by/thought faith ( genitive case )
3- salvation by grace does not come from yourself- this ( nominative case ) refers to salvation ( nominative case ) which is the gift by Gods grace.
4- salvation is the gift (nominative case )of Gods grace
conclusion: gift, salvation and this are all in the nominative case is in agreement therefor they point to salvation as the gift not faith
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
This is the work of God - This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth, Romans 10:4.
conclusion: gift, salvation and this are all in the nominative case is in agreement therefor they point to salvation as the gift not faith.
And AT Robertson the premier NT Greek Scholar below agrees with me.
For by grace (τῃ γαρ χαριτι [tēi gar chariti]). Explanatory reason. “By the grace” already mentioned in verse 5 and so with the article. Through faith (δια πιστεως [dia pisteōs]). This phrase he adds in repeating what he said in verse 5 to make it plainer. “Grace” is God’s part, “faith” ours. And that (και τουτο [kai touto]). Neuter, not feminine ταυτη [tautē], and so refers not to πιστις [pistis] (feminine) or to χαρις [charis] (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows that salvation does not have its source (ἐξ ὑμων [ex humōn], out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God’s gift (δωρον [dōron]) and not the result of our work.11 A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Eph 2:8.
conclusion: gift, salvation and this are all in the nominative case is in agreement therefor they point to salvation as the gift not faith.
1- salvation - being saved is by grace
2- salvation by grace comes by/thought faith ( genitive case )
3- salvation by grace does not come from yourself- this ( nominative case ) refers to salvation ( nominative case ) which is the gift by Gods grace.
4- salvation is the gift (nominative case )of Gods grace
conclusion: gift, salvation and this are all in the nominative case is in agreement therefor they point to salvation as the gift not faith
[td][/td]
Johann
Well-known member
You do realize you can use paint? You want directives? And no, faith is a gift, salvation is a gift and thank my Lord Jesus Christ for that!
faith. . We are saved by grace, not by faith, which is the channel through (dia) which flows to us the Divine stream of saving grace. Both alike God's gifts.
J.
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civic
Well-known member
I’m on a Mac and iPhone don’t own a pc
Johann
Well-known member
civic
Well-known member
I’m not a tech geek so I wouldn’t know how to cut paste into that so it formats and looks like it does on Bible Hub
Selah
Well-known member
Thanks for the above. Nicely written, GG.
This is my understanding of salvation. The source is Grace, and the way we receive God's grace is through faith. Our belief is based on our trust in God's Word and His promises. Now, in order for faith to be activated, it requires a focal point, and that focal point is Jesus Christ. When we study the Bible and keep God's teachings and promises in mind, we then have a solid foundation on how we live our life. Our faith is active and our activities are grounded on a strong foundation—Jesus Christ.
Johann
Well-known member
Here, allow me to assist you--
ON MAC (for PNG/JPG creation, basic editing):
1. Preview (Built-in)
Open any image → Click the Markup icon (pen in a circle) → Add text, shapes, lines, arrows.
File → Export → Choose PNG or JPEG format.
No need to install anything.
Great for screenshots, memes, or annotated images.
2. Photos App (Built-in)
Edit images, apply filters, crop, and use Markup (under Edit > More > Markup).
Export options include JPEG and PNG via File > Export > Export [number] Photos.
3. Canva (Web or App)
Drag-and-drop interface, good for creating graphics, memes, flyers, etc.
Export in PNG or JPG.
Free version works well for basic image creation.
https://www.canva.com
4. GIMP (Free Photoshop Alternative)
More advanced control for creating or editing PNG/JPGs.
Export in almost any format.
https://www.gimp.org
ON iPHONE (for quick image creation/export):
1. Photos App → Markup
Open any photo or blank image → Tap “Edit” → “Markup” → Add text/shapes → Save as JPG.
For PNGs: Take a screenshot of a transparent image, then crop.
2. Canva Mobile App
Create from scratch or with templates, then export as PNG or JPG.
Very intuitive on mobile.
3. Phonto (Free)
Add styled text to any image.
Save/export as PNG or JPG.
Good for memes, Instagram posts, or annotations.
4. Pixelcut or Bazaart
Designed for PNG exports with transparency, background removal, etc.
Great if you're making profile icons, product images, etc.
Thank me later.
J.
Johann
Well-known member
Oops, came out 3x--my computer veryyyyyy slow!. So delete the two posts and bookmark the one you need.
J.
GodsGrace
Well-known member
Agreed.
Well said.
I understand scripture in a simple way and it seems to explain itself.
God wants us to know how to be saved...it's the reason for Jesus.
Is knowing you were a sinner, needing to be saved and wanting to be saved having any part in your salvation?
When you read about God in the Bible or are told about the gospel of God by a preacher of God's word, is the existence of the Bible and the word about the gospel not a work of God? Can the Holy Spirit work in the heart of the sinner before regeneration? If so, is that monergism or synergism?
Is not the giving of the special revelation of God's written word in a manner capable of being understood by the unregenerate within God's grace? I believe it is.
Can that be done before being born again? I believe it can.
What precisely is involved in "initial salvation"?
The Calvinist will say that the unregenerate is not capable of even wanting to be saved. Is that your position? It sounds like it might be.
Faith is not a gift. It is both your faith and Christ Jesus' faithfulness. Christ's faithfulness is independent of your faith; it is a given; it simply is. It is a divine attribute of God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Faith is not given to anyone. A believer is on who has faith. To have faith in God is to believe in God. For some, like me who was raised in a good Christian home, coming to believe in God came almost naturally. For some, not raised as I was, coming to a faith in God may be a work of days, weeks, months or even years.
Faith is ABSOLUTELY not a gift.
@Eternally-Grateful
We shall see~and yes, the gospel (or, mainly the doctrine of grace, which is the foundation of the true gospel) is in all of the word of God, but, the definition of the gospel is found in Galatians 2:16 without question, since Galatians 1:6-5:4 is addressing what the gospel is and what is another gospel.
Johann
Well-known member
Just woke up, coffee in hand, open the newsletter--and here’s @Jim again. I laid out what I believe to be the plain meaning of Scripture yesterday, and yet here we are, with you implying I’m a Calvinist simply because I affirm that grace, salvation, and faith are gifts.
Here’s my suggestion- read the text of Ephesians carefully and then tell me-honestly-whether we contributed anything to our salvation, and whether our faith is not something granted to us.
J.
Yes, to a degree, I could agree that Galatians 2:16 does present the heart of the gospel. However, the version of that verse and some others like it that you ascribe to does not. Your version of Galatians 2:16 actually leads to another gospel.
No @Johann, I am not implying that you are a Calvinist. Others besides Calvinists make the mistake of thinking that faith is a gift. If indeed faith in God were to be a gift from God, then God would be remiss in not giving that gift to every human being that has lived or ever will live.
