An Article on free will

@civic
Faith is never given to an unbeliever, only to a believer as the fruit of the spirit .
That statement is very misleading. Yes faith is given to us, pe
r Philippians 1:28,29, but in this sense: God, according to the riches of his free grace, regenerates his elect by creating a new man within them, which man has the power to see, hear, and believe; this was secured for God's elect by their surety, JESUS CHRIST, the Son of the Living God.

The same power which resurrected Christ from the dead, resurrected each child of God from being dead in sins and trepasses, and made them a new creature by creating IN THEM a new man that could believe, etc. The new man is created in the image of JESUS CHRIST, not the old Adam that sinned and lost God's image, who took on the very image of his new master, the devil himself, an image in wickedness, darkness, without spiritual wisdom, knowledge and understating, where Satan is reserved unto the day of judgment, and the perdition of ungodly men and angels.
 
Faith is ABSOLUTELY not a gift.
This is not a topic I believe is incredibly important to our salvation...
which is what I'm really interested in...

However, if faith is not a gift....then what is it?
From where does it begin?
Is it generated somehow?
From what?

I think some of us,,,such as, maybe, @civic and, maybe, yourself, believe that if we say that faith is a gift...
then it points to the reformed/calvinist theological system that teaches that God does absolutely everything and man has no part in his salvation.

I don't believe we can consider faith to be understood in that way.

ALL of salvation is a gift.
Faith is a part of that salvation process.
The synergy is in man coming to hear the Word of God OR coming to know of the existence of God in some way.
A person then must decide whether or not he wishes to be a follower of Jesus...a believer in God.
THIS is man's part.

It is through the instrument of faith,,,,that man is then able to be a follower of Jesus.
God gifts this faith to man so that it's possible to be obedient Christians, as the bible teaches.

So....to get this gift of faith...man must decide to follow God.
God gifts faith to those that WISH TO HAVE IT.

In this way, it is a two-sided act.....
man doing his part
God doing His part.
Synergism.

It's a gift...but we must WANT that gift...
it is given to whomever wants it.
John 3:16

We say that we can only DO through the power of the Holy Spirit.
Correct. It is our faith that allows this...
faith is generated by God ... it is not generated by man himself.

If faith were generated by us,,,,why would we need the Holy Spirit?

It's our faith in God that allows us to follow the Holy Spirit.
 
No @Johann, I am not implying that you are a Calvinist. Others besides Calvinists make the mistake of thinking that faith is a gift. If indeed faith in God were to be a gift from God, then God would be remiss in not giving that gift to every human being that has lived or ever will live.
Why would God be remiss?
Are YOU a Calvinist?
I know you're not, so that statement is surprising to me.

Let's remember that God is a just God.
He will give to each person what that person deserves...which is the definition of justice.

So, if God gave to everyone faith....even if they DID NOT WANT it....
how would that be justice?
It wouldn't.

It's the same as salvation...
does God give salvation to everyone?
No.
Is He thus remiss?

How do you understand the difference?
If salvation is a gift...

then, by necessity, faith also has to be a gift.
BOTH ARE REQUIRED TO BE DESIRED BY THE INDIVIDUAL.
 
No @Johann, I am not implying that you are a Calvinist. Others besides Calvinists make the mistake of thinking that faith is a gift. If indeed faith in God were to be a gift from God, then God would be remiss in not giving that gift to every human being that has lived or ever will live.
I’m not here to engage in philosophical speculation, Jim. If you want to make a point, ground it in Scripture-not assumptions. That’s exactly why there’s confusion and miscommunication in this conversation-- because the Word isn’t being brought to the center of the discussion.

Ephesians 2:8–9

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."
Greek: τῇ γὰρ χάριτί ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι διὰ πίστεως· καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν, θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον.

τοῦτο (“this”) is neuter, referring to the entire clause—salvation by grace through faith.
The phrase θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον = “the gift of God.”
The full process-grace, faith, salvation-is not of ourselves; it is God’s gift.

2. Philippians 1:29

“For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake.”
Greek: ὑμῖν ἐχαρίσθη...τὸ εἰς αὐτὸν πιστεύειν

ἐχαρίσθη = “it has been graciously granted” (Aorist Passive).
What was granted? τὸ πιστεύειν = “to believe.”
Faith is explicitly described as something granted by God.

3. Acts 18:27

“…he greatly helped those who had believed through grace.”
Greek: τοῖς πεπιστευκόσι διὰ τῆς χάριτος
πεπιστευκόσι = “those who had believed” (Perfect Participle).
διὰ τῆς χάριτος = “through grace” (not through personal effort).
Even the act of believing is said to come through God’s grace.

4. 2 Peter 1:1

“To those who have obtained like precious faith with us…”
Greek: τοῖς ἰσότιμον ἡμῖν λαχοῦσιν πίστιν

λαχοῦσιν = “having obtained” (Aorist Participle of λαγχάνω = to receive by allotment).
Faith here is something received, not achieved.

Scripture does not portray faith as a human-generated contribution. Rather, these texts show it is something granted, received, given by grace, and not of ourselves. Any view that denies this risks misrepresenting the plain meaning of these verses.

Let’s keep our doctrine anchored in what the text actually says--not in theological systems or assumptions. Now Jim, prove the Scriptures wrong please.


J.
 
The very definition of faith given in Hebrews 11:1 is proof enough for me. The declaration by Paul concerning faith in Romans 10 is proof that it is not a gift from God.
You are making my case and the Scriptures, the word of God, Messiah and the Holy Spirit.

J.
 
@Johann
And no one understands me.
I do, and would agree with much of what you say, but do disagree little. Without question after one is regenerated by the Spirit of the Living God, then God has called them to have good works in their life, so that their light would shine forth in a very dark world.

Titus 3:8​

This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.”

Ephesians 2:10​

“For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”

2nd Timothy 2:19​

“Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”

James 2:26​

“For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”

But, being born of God is 100% of God.
 
Why would God be remiss?
Are YOU a Calvinist?
I know you're not, so that statement is surprising to me.

Let's remember that God is a just God.
He will give to each person what that person deserves...which is the definition of justice.

So, if God gave to everyone faith....even if they DID NOT WANT it....
how would that be justice?
It wouldn't.

It's the same as salvation...
does God give salvation to everyone?
No.
Is He thus remiss?

How do you understand the difference?
If salvation is a gift...

then, by necessity, faith also has to be a gift.
BOTH ARE REQUIRED TO BE DESIRED BY THE INDIVIDUAL.
If salvation is by grace through faith, then obviously faith is required. If faith is a gift not given to all, then it is God, and only God, who is accountable for any who are not saved.
 
I’m not here to engage in philosophical speculation, Jim. If you want to make a point, ground it in Scripture-not assumptions. That’s exactly why there’s confusion and miscommunication in this conversation-- because the Word isn’t being brought to the center of the discussion.

Ephesians 2:8–9

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."
Greek: τῇ γὰρ χάριτί ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι διὰ πίστεως· καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν, θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον.

τοῦτο (“this”) is neuter, referring to the entire clause—salvation by grace through faith.
The phrase θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον = “the gift of God.”
The full process-grace, faith, salvation-is not of ourselves; it is God’s gift.

2. Philippians 1:29

“For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake.”
Greek: ὑμῖν ἐχαρίσθη...τὸ εἰς αὐτὸν πιστεύειν

ἐχαρίσθη = “it has been graciously granted” (Aorist Passive).
What was granted? τὸ πιστεύειν = “to believe.”
Faith is explicitly described as something granted by God.

3. Acts 18:27

“…he greatly helped those who had believed through grace.”
Greek: τοῖς πεπιστευκόσι διὰ τῆς χάριτος
πεπιστευκόσι = “those who had believed” (Perfect Participle).
διὰ τῆς χάριτος = “through grace” (not through personal effort).
Even the act of believing is said to come through God’s grace.

4. 2 Peter 1:1

“To those who have obtained like precious faith with us…”
Greek: τοῖς ἰσότιμον ἡμῖν λαχοῦσιν πίστιν

λαχοῦσιν = “having obtained” (Aorist Participle of λαγχάνω = to receive by allotment).
Faith here is something received, not achieved.

Scripture does not portray faith as a human-generated contribution. Rather, these texts show it is something granted, received, given by grace, and not of ourselves. Any view that denies this risks misrepresenting the plain meaning of these verses.

Let’s keep our doctrine anchored in what the text actually says--not in theological systems or assumptions. Now Jim, prove the Scriptures wrong please.


J.
The above is correct, of course.
I believe Ephesians 2:8 is implying the ENTIRE PROCESS....
grace, faith, salvation.

BUT
Let's assume the words immediately following FAITH are referring ONLY TO FAITH.... (which can be debated, as you know)....
IT WOULD STILL MAKE FAITH BE A GIFT !
Because those very words are stating that faith is the gift....


I don't want to complicate matters....
There's no getting around the fact that the entire process is a gift from God.
 
If salvation is by grace through faith, then obviously faith is required. If faith is a gift not given to all, then it is God, and only God, who is accountable for any who are not saved.
Jim,,,,
You missed this important part:

Faith is given to WHO WANTS IT....

Just like John 3:16 WHOMEVER BELEIVES......

The WHOMEVER believes....man's part....
to THAT PERSON,,,, to whom God gifts faith.
 
@ GodsGrace

Well silly goose, it comes from your free will, are you not listening to your own teachings?

Later....RB
Cute RB.

My free will has CHOSEN to believe that God exists and that I wish to worship Him.

And voila',,,,,my very point to @Jim and @civic .... (the fear of Calvinist theology).

RB's statement above has NOTHING to do with our discussion.

As if A CHOICE I MAKE removes my free will somehow.
 
@ GodsGrace

Well silly goose, it comes from your free will, are you not listening to your own teachings?

Later....RB
PS

Predestination is also in the NT.....
unfortunately for you, it doesn't mean what you THINK it means.

Mainline Christianity is very firm RB.
Faith is a gift from God....

BUT
It is not IRRESISTIBLY forced upon those God chooses to save.

THAT is my theology.
 
Let’s keep our doctrine anchored in what the text actually says--not in theological systems or assumptions. Now Jim, prove the Scriptures wrong please.


J.
@Johann, you are seriously telling me to prove Scriptures wrong? You know better than that. All any of us can ever do is convince others that their interpretations of this or that Scripture is wrong. And as you well know, that almost never happens.

Be real here. In all of your postings here, you have never actually proved anything. You have only presented your arguments. Some are quite convincing, some are not.
 
PS

Predestination is also in the NT.....
unfortunately for you, it doesn't mean what you THINK it means.

Mainline Christianity is very firm RB.
Faith is a gift from God....

BUT
It is not IRRESISTIBLY forced upon those God chooses to save.

THAT is my theology.
What is "Mainline Christianity"?
 
If salvation is by grace through faith, then obviously faith is required. If faith is a gift not given to all, then it is God, and only God, who is accountable for any who are not saved.
Keep grinding Jim, you are close--


Is God Accountable if Faith Is a Gift Not Given to All?
And do unbelievers and demons have “faith” of any kind?



1. Faith Is Required for Salvation — Absolutely (Ephesians 2:8)
“For by grace you have been saved through faith…”
Salvation is by grace, but it is received through faith. This is consistent throughout Scripture (John 3:16, Romans 5:1, Galatians 2:16).
Faith is essential. That is not in dispute. Right Jim?

2. But Not All Faith Saves - Even Demons “Believe” Right Jim?

James 2:19 — “You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!”
Greek: καὶ τὰ δαιμόνια πιστεύουσιν καὶ φρίσσουσιν
πιστεύουσιν = present active indicative of πιστεύω (“they believe”)
Demons have intellectual acknowledgment of God’s reality, but not saving trust or submission.


The Bible distinguishes mere belief (mental assent) from saving faith (πιστις εἰς σωτηρίαν), which includes trust, reliance, and obedience.


John 2:23–25 – Many believed (ἐπίστευσαν) in His name, but Jesus did not entrust Himself to them, because He knew their hearts.

Demons and unbelievers may possess belief, but not saving faith. There is a qualitative distinction. Right @Jim?

3. Unbelievers Can “Believe” Temporarily or Superficially


Luke 8:13 – “They believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.”
Greek: οἱ πρὸς καιρὸν πιστεύουσιν (“they believe for a season”)
This refers to superficial faith - temporary, emotional, or circumstantial-- not lasting or saving.

Again, not all faith is saving faith.


4. If Saving Faith Is a Gift, Is God Responsible for Who Believes?

The real issue is not whether faith is required, but whether God’s offer of salvation is universal and resistible.

Titus 2:11 – “For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men.”
John 12:32 – “And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself.”
Acts 17:30 – “God commands all people everywhere to repent.”
Romans 2:4 – “Do you not know that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?”

These verses show that God's grace, call, and offer of salvation is genuinely extended to all.


Yet Scripture also affirms that people can resist or reject--

Acts 7:51 – “You always resist the Holy Spirit.”
Luke 7:30 – “But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the purpose of God for themselves.”
2 Thessalonians 2:10–12 – “They refused to love the truth and so be saved.”

The Scriptures affirm God grants faith, but also that man can resist, reject, and harden his heart. Therefore, God is not the cause of unbelief, nor is He unjust. Hopefully, this should answer your ?????



Yes, salvation is by grace through faith.
Yes, faith is a gift, given through the convicting work of the Spirit (John 16:8–9), the preaching of the Word (Romans 10:17), and divine initiative (Phil. 1:29).

But Scripture also holds humans responsible for their response (Isaiah 55:6, Acts 17:27, Hebrews 4:2).
God gives the light (John 1:9); man may reject it (John 3:19–20).

God is not to blame for unbelief-- Scripture places that responsibility squarely on those who refuse the truth (Romans 1:18, 2 Thess. 2:12).

Does that make sense to you?
Your question was answered with Scripture and a lot of thought--take a moment to really think it through.

J.
 
@Johann, you are seriously telling me to prove Scriptures wrong? You know better than that. All any of us can ever do is convince others that their interpretations of this or that Scripture is wrong. And as you well know, that almost never happens.

Be real here. In all of your postings here, you have never actually proved anything. You have only presented your arguments. Some are quite convincing, some are not.
Yes, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, and allow others to do the same.

J.
 
The above is correct, of course.
I believe Ephesians 2:8 is implying the ENTIRE PROCESS....
grace, faith, salvation.

BUT
Let's assume the words immediately following FAITH are referring ONLY TO FAITH.... (which can be debated, as you know)....
IT WOULD STILL MAKE FAITH BE A GIFT !
Because those very words are stating that faith is the gift....


I don't want to complicate matters....
There's no getting around the fact that the entire process is a gift from God.
Keep it up-you’re doing a solid job for Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and our Abba Father. Stay strong and faithful!

Johann.
 
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