An Article on free will

[Eternally-Grateful]

But you were not regenerated or saved prior to faith in the gospel. Your faith played a role which Jesus affirms in John 3:16-18. Faith saved and unbelief condemns

Yes,

But he did not come to faith of his own power. or add his own power.

its the work of God we trust him. He gets the credit. not us

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

@Eternally-Grateful

I never said we were on the same page, i understand this probably much better than you do, nevertheless, I commended you for a saying that you said, nothing more.

Besides, I'm not a Calvinist in the true sense of what is known by Calvinism. I do not sprinkle babies; I do not believe in gospel means in regeneration; I do not believe in irresistible grace, etc.

Also, I fully understand John 1:11-13 not so sure you do, but, if you keep your mind open to the scriptures, you might come to a better understanding of the truth.

I'm steppin out for a while, but will return later...RB

lol. I understand john 1 quite well thank you


And add to it John 3, John 4 John 5 John 6 and John 7.

the gospel is in all of them

 

[civic]

Yes,

But he did not come to faith of his own power. or add his own power.

its the work of God we trust him. He gets the credit. not us

God doesn’t believe for us that’s our responsibility

 

[synergy]

Did my repenting and believing make me a co-partner of God's saving work--either in the redemptive work of the Messiah or the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit?

Why is it that you’re not understanding what I’m trying to share with you?

J.

Nobody said that we're "co-partners". I try to use my words carefully, only as far as the Apostles allow us to believe. They called themselves and all other believers around themselves Synergists and I simply follow their example. Nothing more and nothing less than that.

 

[Johann]

But you were not regenerated or saved prior to faith in the gospel. Your faith played a role which Jesus affirms in John 3:16-18. Faith saved and unbelief condemns

Exactly--is faith a gift? Is it my faith or Christ Jesus faithfulness?

J.

 

[synergy]

God doesn’t believe for us that’s our responsibility

He doesn't repent for us either.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

God doesn’t believe for us that’s our responsibility

I never said he did brother.

Again, I do not think you understand what I am saying

You did not bring yourself to faith, Nor did I.

Its like you are in the middle of the ocean. And you are dead because you have no hope. and the US coast Guard arrives.

You have three choices.

1. Deny you need saved in unbelief
2. Say you will let them save you. but you must do your part.
3. sit and do nothing, but let the CG swimmer rescue you.

I am retired coast guard and have been on many of these rescues.. If the person does not sit still and do nothing. he risks his life and the CG swimmers life. and the swimmer is told to back off.

Neither he nor God will force you to be saved

If you did number 3. You can not boast. You can not claim you added your power to the coast guard swimmers power and you both saved you. (synergism)

You did as the tax collector did. Got on your knees and cried out to jesus. Sat still and let him use his power to save you.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

He doesn't repent for us either.

No one said he did

stop with the sly remarks.. and try to listen to what the others are saying.. Get off your ISM. and understand your ISM may be wrong

 

[civic]

Exactly--is faith a gift? Is it my faith or Christ Jesus faithfulness?

J.

No salvation is the gift via Gods grace granted to those who believe.

 

[Johann]

No salvation is the gift via Gods grace granted to those who believe.

So you deny faith is a gift?

J.

 

[synergy]

No one said he did

So that leaves the human with having to perform the volitional actions of believing and repenting.

Take the action of repenting (begging for mercy to God) as an èxample. Repenting is an active volitional action verb that involves the will of the person and requires conscious decision-making and effort. If that's not cooperating with what Jesus demands of us in Mark 1:15 (repentance), I don't know what is.

 

[Dizerner]

but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith. (Rom. 12:3 NKJ)

 

[civic]

So you deny faith is a gift?

J.

Yes

1- salvation - being saved is by grace
2- salvation by grace comes by/thought faith ( genitive case )
3- salvation by grace does not come from yourself- this ( nominative case ) refers to salvation ( nominative case ) which is the gift by Gods grace.
4- salvation is the gift (nominative case )of Gods grace

conclusion: gift, salvation and this are all in the nominative case is in agreement therefor they point to salvation as the gift not faith.

 

[Johann]

but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith. (Rom. 12:3 NKJ)

Still a gift--as God has dealt--

Romans 12:3 does not contradict but rather supports the doctrine that faith is a gift.

God deals out faith in the same way He distributes other spiritual graces--so that no one may boast.

Paul’s warning against pride only makes sense if the very faith by which one serves is itself a gracious gift, not a personal accomplishment.

J.

 

[Dizerner]

Still a gift--as God has dealt--

That was the point, brother.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Who said we earn anything? Stop with the strawmen. That's a typical calvinist strawman argument.

Now this is funny. I just got banned from a reformed chatroom making the same argument. They claimed I was using a straw man too.

You mean monergistic, right? That's calvinism. Calvinism flies in the face of what the Gospel message demands of us. Take Mark 1:15 for example.

“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”

In this verse, Jesus commands two specific responses: repent and believe. Repent and believe are active volitional verbs. Both actions involve the will of the person and require conscious decision-making and effort.

Because repentance and belief are action-oriented commands that must be carried out by the individual in response to God’s call, this suggests a synergistic model of salvation—where human response cooperates with divine initiative. God's grace enables, but humans must respond actively. Thus, salvation, while initiated and empowered by God, is not monergistic (God alone acting) but synergistic (God and human working together).

Begging (for mercy) is an active volitional action verb that involves the will of the person and requires conscious decision-making and effort. If that's not cooperating with what Jesus demands of us in Mark 1:15 (repentance), I don't know what is. Thank you for your assistance in proving that salvation is synergistic.

So that leaves the human with having to perform the volitional actions of believing and repenting.

It’s the work of god

Why do you want to keep the credit for yourself

Take the action of repenting (begging for mercy to God) as an èxample. Repenting is an active volitional action verb that involves the will of the person and requires conscious decision-making and effort. If that's not cooperating with what Jesus demands of us in Mark 1:15 (repentance), I don't know what is.

I can see why a Calvinist would claim your trying to earn salvation

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Yes

1- salvation - being saved is by grace
2- salvation by grace comes by/thought faith ( genitive case )
3- salvation by grace does not come from yourself- this ( nominative case ) refers to salvation ( nominative case ) which is the gift by Gods grace.
4- salvation is the gift (nominative case )of Gods grace

conclusion: gift, salvation and this are all in the nominative case is in agreement therefor they point to salvation as the gift not faith.

Hey bro. Where does your faith in others come from?

 

[Johann]

1- salvation - being saved is by grace
2- salvation by grace comes by/thought faith ( genitive case )
3- salvation by grace does not come from yourself- this ( nominative case ) refers to salvation ( nominative case ) which is the gift by Gods grace.
4- salvation is the gift (nominative case )of Gods grace

conclusion: gift, salvation and this are all in the nominative case is in agreement therefor they point to salvation as the gift not faith.

Great-then you are in denial of this great verse-

“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not of yourselves; it is the gift of God—not of works, so that no one may boast.”


The neuter pronoun τοῦτο in Ephesians 2:8 does not isolate faith from grace or salvation but refers to the entire salvation experience, which includes faith as an instrument. Thus, the grammatical and contextual evidence decisively supports the conclusion that faith itself is part of God’s gracious gift, not something generated by man.


Philippians 1:29 – “To you it has been granted...to believe in Him.”---and this--

Romans 12:6 – “Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them…”
  
Here, faith and grace are presented in parallel as divinely distributed gifts, reinforcing that even our ability to believe is by grace.

My view upholds Paul’s purpose-- salvation is entirely of God, by grace, through faith, and none may boast.

Thanks.

J.

 

[synergy]

Now this is funny. I just got banned from a reformed chatroom making the same argument. They claimed I was using a straw man too.

You just got nailed with your own medicine. That is funny.

lets look again

Synergism - the combined power of two or more things when they are working together that is greater than the total power achieved by each working separately:

I did not come to faith by my power. And my faith and Gods work were not combined to make a greater total power achieved if it was just God working on his own.

Where is that definition found in the Bible? My definition of Synergy is when the Apostles called themselves Synergists. You continue to offer strawmen. This time it's a strawman definition you're offering.

Yes. A calvinist thinks I am synergistic because I have faith. they reject any idea I am synergetic.. I was given the power by God because I received him. I did not add my power to Gods to make a greater power.

Amen

You do not earn your salvation by repenting and believing.

it is the work of God we believe. Gods proves to us he is trustworthy as he draws us to him. I did not come to faith by my own power.. As a calvist would claim i did

Again, nobody here is claiming to earn his salvation. This is your Strawman #2.

No

If you work with God. your a legalist..

God alone acted in his own power. I just became like the tax collector..

The Apostles called themselves God's Synergists/Fellow Workers. You just branded them as "legalists". You're digging yourself into quite a hole.

lol..

not of works lest anyone should boast.

You did nto get saved by your own will..

I think John is clear.

John 1: 13 ;who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

I was not born by being birthed into a Christian family

I was not born by my own power or willing my self to salvation,.

i was not born because someone else willed that I got saved

John 1:13 is talking about regeneration. Nobody in his right mind can claim to be able to regenerate himself. Only a lunatic would claim that. This is yet another strawman (number 3) on your part.

Between your 3 strawmen that you forwarded and your derogatory remark against the Apostles, you are digging yourself into quite a hole.

 

[civic]

Great-then you are in denial of this great verse-

“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not of yourselves; it is the gift of God—not of works, so that no one may boast.”


The neuter pronoun τοῦτο in Ephesians 2:8 does not isolate faith from grace or salvation but refers to the entire salvation experience, which includes faith as an instrument. Thus, the grammatical and contextual evidence decisively supports the conclusion that faith itself is part of God’s gracious gift, not something generated by man.


Philippians 1:29 – “To you it has been granted...to believe in Him.”---and this--

Romans 12:6 – “Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them…”
  
Here, faith and grace are presented in parallel as divinely distributed gifts, reinforcing that even our ability to believe is by grace.

My view upholds Paul’s purpose-- salvation is entirely of God, by grace, through faith, and none may boast.

Thanks.

J.

Faith is never given to an unbeliever, only to a believer as the fruit of the spirit .

hope this helps !!!