He is my junior and I greatly respect him. We have been engaging with each other for many years now.
An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
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synergy
Active Member
Full blown Calvinists worship a god who is the source of the Holocaust. Speaking of the Holocaust, Lutheranism has some "predestination" elements to it that contributed to that event. Their imaginary ends justified their means in their minds. Ideologies like the TULIP ideologies can be a dangerous mind-control mechanism.
The Word of God “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25) is highly related to the Word of God "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) which, in turn, is highly related to the Word of God "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh" (Ezekiel 36:26).
We Christians believe that us being babes (Matthew 11:25) is part of the born again (John 3:3) birthing process during which God says to us that He includes a new heart and put a new spirit within you (Ezekiel 36:26); moreover, we believe this blessed deliverance of God including "a new heart" fundamentally includes that “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) by God to us Christians.
Saving faith in Jesus does not precede a person being born of God as preached by Free-willian Philosophers (proof post #6,416).
Saving faith in Jesus is not pointed at Jesus by the creature's own initiative.
Saving faith in Jesus is imparted in born again babes new heart as an exclusive blessing of God, Father of lights!
You wrote "IF you were correct in your belief...the NT would be replete with conflict" which is proven to be anti-truth - even when examining the passages you present as free-will proof passages shown above (Part 6) regarding Matthew chapter 11 - clearly, your "IF you were correct in your belief...the NT would be replete with conflict" accurately describes you and your Free-willian Philosophy.
Self-will or image of Christ will
These 16 parts integrally contribute to one full composition. A response to post #6,699.Part 1 of 16: Illegitimate Isolation
Part 2 of 16: Self-exaltation
Part 3 of 16: Unity Prayer (Acts 4:24)
Part 4 of 16: CHOOSE, ABLE, list
Part 5 of 16: God creates all
Part 6 of 16: Matthew 11 examined
Part 7 of 16: Free-willian NT Conflict
Part 8 of 16: John 3 16/Matthew 11:25
Part 9 of 16: Free-willian Self-savior
Part 10 of 16: Faith, the gift of God
Part 11 of 16: Free-willian are self-willed
Part 12 of 16: The Potter and the clay
Part 13 of 16: the problem here
Part 14 of 16: you confuse Calvin for Christ
Part 15 of 16: Christ controls Christians
Part 16 of 16: Christians hear Christ
Johann
Active Member
Opposing ideologies can be very dangerous, brother, especially when they stand in opposition to what is written. Additionally, indoctrination from a young age, where critical and analytical thinking is stifled, leads one to rely solely on commentaries, devoid of the Holy Spirit, leaving the mind unable to discern error from truth.
1. Skeptical Wojak (Calvinist Contradiction)
Calvinist: "You were predestined to believe in free will."
Me: "Wait… what? How can predestination and free will coexist?"
Scripture Reference: "Choose you this day whom ye will serve" (Joshua 24:15) - A call to personal decision and responsibility.
2. Drakeposting (Biblical vs. Calvinist Theology)
Drake Rejects: "God forces some to be saved and leaves the rest to burn!"
Drake Approves: *"God desires all to be saved and calls whosoever will!" (1 Tim 2:4) — "For God so loved the world..." (John 3:16)
Scripture Reference: "The Lord is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9).
3. Distracted Boyfriend (Calvinist Priorities)
Girlfriend (The Bible): "Whosoever will may come!" (Revelation 22:17)
Calvinist Boyfriend: Looking at Other Woman
Other Woman (Calvin’s Institutes): "God only meant that for the elect."
Scripture Reference: "For many are called, but few are chosen" (Matthew 22:14) — But still, the call goes out to all.
Sweating Guy:
"God ordains everything, including sin."
"Man is responsible for his sin."
Scripture Reference: "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man" (James 1:13).
5. Expanding Brain (Levels of Theology)
Small Brain: "God predestines some to be saved."
Bigger Brain: "God predestines others to be damned."
Expanding Brain: "God secretly wills sin but punishes people for it."
Ascended Brain: "Whosoever will may come, and God sincerely desires all to repent!" (1 Timothy 2:4, Ezekiel 18:23)
Scripture Reference: "I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked" (Ezekiel 33:11).
J.
Jay
Active Member
I think you are right. We do have a warning:
Remind everyone about these things, and command them in God’s presence to stop fighting over words. Such arguments are useless, and they can ruin those who hear them. 2 Timothy 2:14
Titus 3:9
But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, arguments, and quarrels about the law, because these things are pointless and worthless.
1 Timothy 6:4-5
he is conceited and understands nothing. Instead, he has an unhealthy interest in controversies and disputes about words, out of which come envy, strife, abusive talk, evil suspicions, / and constant friction between men of depraved mind who are devoid of the truth. These men regard godliness as a means of gain.
1 Timothy 1:4
or devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculation rather than the stewardship of God’s work, which is by faith.
1 Timothy 6:20
O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you. Avoid irreverent, empty chatter and the opposing arguments of so-called “knowledge,”
1 Corinthians 1:10
I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree together, so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be united in mind and conviction.
1 Corinthians 14:20
Brothers, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be mature.
2 Peter 3:16
He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
Ephesians 4:29
Let no unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building up the one in need and bringing grace to those who listen.
Colossians 2:8
See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ.
James 1:26
If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not bridle his tongue, he deceives his heart and his religion is worthless.
Matthew 12:36
But I tell you that men will give an account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken.
Romans 14:1
Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on his opinions.
Philippians 2:14
Do everything without complaining or arguing,
1 Peter 3:15
But in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give a defense to everyone who asks you the reason for the hope that is in you. But respond with gentleness and respect,
Galatians 5:15
But if you keep on biting and devouring one another, watch out, or you will be consumed by one another.
Johann
Active Member
Does Saving Faith Precede Being Born Again?
You mentioned that saving faith does not precede being born of God. However, when we look at Scripture, it’s clear that faith and being born again are closely tied, yet they don't always work in the order you're suggesting.
John 1:12-13 states, "But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
This passage makes it clear that receiving Christ and believing in His name is the means through which one becomes a child of God. Though God ultimately grants the new birth, faith is a response to God’s call.
John 3:16 says, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Here, faith in Jesus is directly tied to eternal life. It doesn’t say that one must be born again before they believe. Rather, belief in Jesus is the condition for receiving eternal life.
Ephesians 2:8-9 affirms, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
This verse teaches that faith is the channel through which grace comes, and it's a gift from God. But it doesn't say that faith is something that only comes after regeneration. Rather, faith is part of the process of salvation that involves both God's grace and the individual's response.
2. Does Faith Come from Our Own Initiative?
You argue that saving faith isn't pointed at Jesus by our own initiative. While it is true that salvation is ultimately the work of God, the New Testament also teaches that humans are responsible to respond to God’s offer of salvation.
Matthew 11:28-30 shows a call to action: "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."
Jesus here extends an invitation for people to come to Him. This is a command that requires a personal response, showing that human initiative is involved in the process of salvation.
Revelation 22:17 says, "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely."
The call to come is given to "whosoever will," which emphasizes human willingness and choice in responding to God's call.
3. The Role of the Holy Spirit and Human Response
While you emphasize that faith is exclusively a blessing from God and a work of the Spirit, Scripture also makes it clear that the Holy Spirit works alongside the individual's response.
John 16:8 tells us, "And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment."
The Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin and points people to righteousness. This is not an automatic transformation but a work of God that calls for a response.
Romans 8:16 says, "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God."
The Holy Spirit confirms in the believer’s heart their identity as a child of God, but this confirmation happens after the person has exercised faith in Christ.
4. The NT and Free Will: Is There Conflict?
You mentioned that if I were correct in my belief, the New Testament would be "replete with conflict," speaking for myself and not @GodsGrace -but I think this is an unfair accusation. The New Testament consistently teaches both God’s sovereignty and human responsibility.
Philippians 2:12-13 says, "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."
These verses show a partnership between God’s work in the believer and the believer’s responsibility to respond. It’s not a contradiction but a balance between divine sovereignty and human action.
Acts 17:30 shows God’s call to all people: "And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent."
God commands repentance from all, showing that people are responsible to respond to His call. This isn't contradictory to God's sovereignty but emphasizes the need for human response.
John 5:40 says, "And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life."
Jesus highlights that people can refuse to come to Him. This free will to accept or reject God's offer is evident throughout Scripture.
5. "Anti-Truth" and Free Will
Lastly, I have to address the idea that free will is "anti-truth." If free will were truly "anti-truth," then the entire gospel message would be at odds with itself. The New Testament calls everyone to repentance and faith in Christ, which means human will plays a role in salvation, even though God is the one who enables the process.
Romans 3:3-4 says, "For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar."
God’s truth stands firm, regardless of human belief. If free will were "anti-truth," it would undermine the gospel itself.
While I understand your perspective, I believe a careful examination of the whole counsel of Scripture reveals a more nuanced understanding of salvation. Yes, salvation is the work of God, but human beings are also called to respond. God enables faith, but it is still an act of the will to receive the gift of salvation. Both divine sovereignty and human responsibility are affirmed in the Bible, and it is not a matter of one contradicting the other. Rather, they work in harmony, as God calls all to faith, and those who respond are saved.
J.
You have no clue as to what you are saying. Those men guilty of such a wicked act on humanity will paid for their wickedness. God is not the author of such wickedness. He could have prevented it, but chose not to do so, and we will leave that with the secret will of God as to why he allows some men/women/children to suffer at the hand of other men. But, most likely all can be traced back to them living in rebellion against God.
I do worship the God who sent a flood to destroy the wicked in Noah's day. I do worship the God who commanded Saul............
1st Samuel 15:3
“Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ***.”Many more acts God brought against the land of Judah and his own people by the hands of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon ~ Read 2nd Kings 25, etc.
We do not preach the tulip, but scriptures and if you would like to debate them then let us to so. But, your name tell me that you are not able to defend synergism using God's testimony recorded in the word of God.
Um according to Calvinism God determined and decreed it
brightfame52
Active Member
False comment see ya at the Judgment.
brightfame52
Active Member
brightfame52
Active Member
Everyone is controlled by God at all times, even satan
No Tom, according to some Calvinist who do not fully understand God's sovereignty in the affairs of men. God is not the author of sin, and hatred, etc., in any sense whatsoever. He created sin, only in the sense that he knew that it come, and chose to still create all things, but not the cause of any sin, but shall punish those that live in sin and hatred of others.
brightfame52
Active Member
Those scriptures are about the elect
Um
Calvinistic Pastor, Dr. John Piper, teaches:
“God . . . brings about all things in accordance with his will. In other words, it isn’t just that God manages to turn the evil aspects of our world to good for those who love him; it is rather that he himself brings about these evil aspects for his glory (see Ex. 9:13-16; John 9:3) and his people’s good (see Heb. 12:3-11; James 1:2-4). This includes—as incredible and as unacceptable as it may currently seem—God’s having even brought about the Nazis’ brutality at Birkenau and Auschwitz as well as the terrible killings of Dennis Rader and even the sexual abuse of a young child…” (Link)— Mark R. Talbot, “’All the Good That Is Ours in Christ’: Seeing God’s Gracious Hand in the Hurts Others Do to Us,” in John Piper and Justin Taylor (eds.), Suffering and the Sovereignty of God (Wheaton: Crossway, 2006), 31-77 (quote from p. 42).
John Calvin himself taught:
“Creatures are so governed by the secret counsel of God, that nothing happens but what he has knowingly and willingly decreed.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 16, Paragraph 3)
“thieves and murderers, and other evildoers, are instruments of divine providence, being employed by the Lord himself to execute judgments which he has resolved to inflict.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 5)
“We hold that God is the disposer and ruler of all things, –that from the remotest eternity, according to his own wisdom, He decreed what he was to do, and now by his power executes what he decreed. Hence we maintain, that by His providence, not heaven and earth and inanimate creatures only, but also the counsels and wills of men are so governed as to move exactly in the course which he has destined.” (John Calvin,Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 16, Paragraph 8)
“The devil, and the whole train of the ungodly, are in all directions, held in by the hand of God as with a bridle, so that they can neither conceive any mischief, nor plan what they have conceived, nor how muchsoever they may have planned, move a single finger to perpetrate, unless in so far as he permits, nay unless in so far as he commands, that they are not only bound by his fetters but are even forced to do him service” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 11)
“…it is very wicked merely to investigate the causes of God’s will. For his will is, and rightly ought to be, the cause of all things that are.”…”For God’s will is so much the highest rule of righteousness that whatever he wills, by the very fact that he wills it, must be considered righteous. When, therefore, one asks why God has so done, we must reply: because he has willed it. But if you proceed further to ask why he so willed, you are seeking something greater and higher than God’s will, which cannot be found.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 1)
and there is much more
synergy
Active Member
So who represents true calvinism?
Or is calvinism is one big bloody non-cohesive mess that no one can understand?
Which ones in Christ are not elect?
Do you believe Jesus only died for the elect ?
Nope bible truth
Election is in Christ
Ephesians 1:3 (NASB95) — 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
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