An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
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Johann
Active Member
Right, see ya there, you are so humble mate.
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged." (Lexham Bible)
Numbers 23:19 – "God is not a man, that He should lie, nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?"
This passage contrasts the faithfulness of God with the unreliability of man, reinforcing that God does not lie or change His mind.
Titus 1:2 – "In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began."
God's truthfulness is foundational to His nature; He cannot lie, whereas human beings are prone to deception.
Hebrews 6:18 – "That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us."
God's truthfulness is an absolute certainty, in contrast to human fallibility.
Psalm 116:11 – "I said in my haste, All men are liars."
The psalmist echoes the theme that humanity, in its fallen nature, is prone to deception and falsehood.
John 8:44 – "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."
Jesus emphasizes that falsehood is intrinsic to fallen man and ultimately derives from the devil, whereas truth is from God.
1 John 5:10 – "He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son."
Rejecting God's truth equates to calling Him a liar, highlighting the contrast between human unbelief and divine truthfulness.
Job 13:4 – "But ye are forgers of lies, ye are all physicians of no value."
Job accuses his friends of being deceitful, reinforcing the theme that human beings are unreliable in their judgments.
Jeremiah 17:9 – "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"
Human nature is inherently deceptive, underscoring the necessity of trusting in God's truth rather than man's reasoning.
Scripture consistently presents God as absolutely truthful and incapable of lying, while fallen humanity is prone to falsehood and deceit. Romans 3:4 serves as the clearest statement of this contrast, with numerous passages affirming that God's truth is immutable and man's nature is unreliable.
This includes us both @brightfame52.
J.
synergy
Active Member
That's precisely the totally depraved mindset that the totally depraved religion called calvinism forms in its host subjects.
Totally depraved Calvin would be so proud.
brightfame52
Active Member
Everyone is controlled by God at all times. Everyone is under Christs rule right now 1 Pet 3:22So who represents true calvinism?
Or is calvinism is one big bloody non-cohesive mess that no one can understand?
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
Johann
Active Member
I intentionally employ memes to challenge hardcore Calvinists, as their beliefs lack biblical support; by simply providing context for their proof texts and I trust the Holy Spirit will lead them to the truth.
Shalom brother.
J.
brightfame52
Active Member
A free-willian can not see the Kingdom of God because one must be born of God to see the Kingdom of God. Just look above (Part 6 & 7) at how in your heart (Matthew 15:16-19, Matthew 6:21) you brutalize the Word of God recorded in Matthew 11:25.
Self-will or image of Christ will
These 16 parts integrally contribute to one full composition. A response to post #6,699.Part 1 of 16: Illegitimate Isolation
Part 2 of 16: Self-exaltation
Part 3 of 16: Unity Prayer (Acts 4:24)
Part 4 of 16: CHOOSE, ABLE, list
Part 5 of 16: God creates all
Part 6 of 16: Matthew 11 examined
Part 7 of 16: Free-willian NT Conflict
Part 8 of 16: John 3 16/Matthew 11:25
Part 9 of 16: Free-willian Self-savior
Part 10 of 16: Faith, the gift of God
Part 11 of 16: Free-willian are self-willed
Part 12 of 16: The Potter and the clay
Part 13 of 16: the problem here
Part 14 of 16: you confuse Calvin for Christ
Part 15 of 16: Christ controls Christians
Part 16 of 16: Christians hear Christ
synergy
Active Member
Thank you for your input. Let's now hear from @Red Baker who contradicts what you say by stating that "God is not the author of such wickedness".
Johann
Active Member
Hebrew Words Implying Free Will:
רָצָה (rāṣâ) – "To desire, to take pleasure in, to be willing"
This verb expresses a sense of willingness or pleasure in doing something. It implies a voluntary action, as seen in the usage of this verb in contexts where someone willingly chooses or desires to do something.
Example: Psalm 51:16 ("For You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; You do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.") Here, rāṣâ suggests that God's will is for a person to willingly choose obedience rather than mere ritual.
נָדַב (nādab) – "To volunteer, to offer freely"
This word refers to a voluntary offering or action made by someone. It can describe a free-will offering or the decision to act without compulsion.
Example: Exodus 35:5 ("Take from among you an offering to the LORD. Whoever is of a willing heart, let him bring it as an offering to the LORD...") The use of nādab indicates the freedom of choice in giving offerings to God.
בָּחַר (bāḥar) – "To choose, to select"
This verb implies a choice between options and the exercise of free will. It is frequently used in the Old Testament to describe God's choice of Israel or an individual's choice in a matter of personal responsibility.
Example: Deuteronomy 30:19 ("I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live.") Here, bāḥar emphasizes the choice available to people to act according to their free will.
שׁוּב (šûb) – "To return, to turn back"
This verb can sometimes imply the choice to repent or turn back from one's current path. It involves a conscious decision to change direction.
Example: 2 Chronicles 30:6 ("...Return to the LORD, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, that He may return to you who are left and who have escaped from the hand of the kings of Assyria.") This turning back requires a choice that involves human responsibility.
Greek Words Implying Free Will:
ἐθέλω (ethélō) – "To will, to desire, to want"
This verb indicates the will or desire to do something, often reflecting a conscious choice or decision.
Example: Matthew 11:27 ("All things have been committed to Me by My Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him.") The idea of "choosing" can be tied to a willingness to act according to one's desires and decisions.
βουλὴ (boulē) – "Will, purpose, decision"
This term refers to a deliberate decision or a decision made based on one's will. It can be used to describe the purpose or intent behind a person’s actions, implying a choice made with volition.
Example: Acts 4:28 ("They did what Your power and will had decided beforehand should happen.") This indicates a voluntary decision made according to God's will but also reflects the exercise of human free will in the unfolding of events.
ἑκούσιος (hekousios) – "Willing, voluntary"
This word specifically conveys the idea of acting of one’s own volition or willfully, without coercion. It is often used in relation to voluntary actions.
Example: 1 Corinthians 9:17 ("For if I do this willingly, I have a reward; if not willingly, I am simply discharging the trust committed to me.") Here, the term emphasizes that Paul’s actions are based on his voluntary decision to preach.
ἐλεύθερος (eleutheros) – "Free, freeborn"
This term implies freedom, and while it is often used in the context of social or political freedom, it can also imply the freedom to make choices.
Example: John 8:36 ("So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.") This idea of freedom also extends to the freedom to choose spiritual actions and responses to God’s call.
βούλομαι (boulomai) – "To wish, to desire, to choose"
Similar to ethélō, this verb emphasizes the expression of one's will or desire to choose something. It can reflect a conscious decision to act on one’s desires or will.
Example: Matthew 20:21 ("What is it you want?" He asked. She said, "Grant that one of these two sons of mine may sit at your right and the other at your left in your kingdom.") This question reflects the act of desiring or choosing a position, an exercise of will.
ἀναγκαῖος (anankaíos) – "Necessary, unavoidable"
While not directly implying free will, this term can be used in contrast with voluntary action, showing that not all situations are dictated by necessity but can involve choice.
Example: Luke 10:42 ("But only one thing is needed. Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her.") The term used for "chosen" here highlights the voluntary decision made by Mary.
Concept of Free Will in Biblical Context:
Freedom to Choose: Both the Old and New Testaments present an overarching theme of human responsibility and the ability to choose. The choices of individuals are not coerced but come from their own will and desire. The act of choosing is a consistent theme, as seen in words like bāḥar (choose), rāṣâ (desire), and ethélō (will).
God’s Sovereignty vs. Human Will: While the Bible speaks of God’s sovereignty in human affairs, it also teaches that human beings are endowed with the ability to choose between right and wrong (e.g., Deuteronomy 30:19). The existence of free will does not negate God's ultimate control but reflects the relationship between divine sovereignty and human responsibility.
These Hebrew and Greek terms demonstrate that the concept of free will, while not always explicitly stated in the Bible, is strongly implied through various words and ideas. The human capacity to choose, to act voluntarily, and to make decisions based on one's will is a significant biblical theme, encompassing both moral and spiritual dimensions.
J.
brightfame52
Active Member
Read my threads
brightfame52
Active Member
Dont have to be mentioned
MTMattie
Active Member
1Tim 2:1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people,
1Tim 2:2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way.
1Tim 2:3 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,
1Tim 2:4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
1Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
WHO ARE THE ELECT.... OBVIOUSLY ALL PEOPLE
brightfame52
Active Member
The elect
MTMattie
Active Member
The elect = ALL for the scriptures say All.
brightfame52
Active Member
The scriptures are only for the elect.
I don't think you know what you are talking about.
brightfame52
Active Member
If you want to correctly exegete scripture it does.
If, on the other hand, you do not care what scripture states you may do as you do and just ignore what is actually written..
Johann
Active Member
PAS-ta panta are elect in/eis Christ Jesus at their 2nd Aorist experience.
Without a doubt, “election” is a Christian doctrine. The question is, what is election, and how is one elected?
Are Calvinists correct to say that God pre-ordains some particular men to be His “elect”, and other particular men to be damned, regardless of any foreknowledge God has of whether or not these men will choose to do right or wrong?
Or am I correct, when I say that God pre-ordained a particular class of men to be His elect, and this class is open to all who come to Jesus and abide in Jesus. This class contains those men found to be in Christ at the end of their lives, or at His coming, whichever comes first. God also pre-ordained a particular class of men to be damned, which class is also open to all who persist in rebellion. And that class of men includes all who are not found in Christ at the end of their lives, or at His coming, whichever comes first.
The statement in bold type above is my thesis, and I will return to it.
If I understand the Calvinist position correctly, they believe no person can come to Jesus unless that person was first “elected” by God, and then given to Jesus, based on John 6:37 (which passage, by the way, does not use the word “elect,” nor does it even refer to election as far as I can see.) It says,
“All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.”
So it would seem, if this verse is wrested from its context, that no one can come to Jesus except by the Father.
I recall that Jesus said the opposite, “No man cometh unto the Father but by Me.” (John 14:6) He claimed to be “the Way” to the Father.
So how are we to understand that no one comes to the Father but through Jesus, yet no one comes to Jesus but by the Father? Either there is a contradiction, or one or both of these verses are not being properly understood.
I am completely unwilling to contradict Jesus in either case, so I seek to understand what He meant in both cases.
John 14:6 can really only be taken one way. NO ONE can come to the Father except by Jesus Christ. He is the ONLY mediator between men and God. Salvation is fixed firmly in this, that Jesus Christ is the only way to God. Salvation must always be Christ-centered.
So what do we do with John 6:37? I contend that the context of Jesus’ words sheds light on what He meant—and He was not referring to “election,” but rather to the fact that truly God-fearing people would be led by God to Jesus Christ. A perfect example of this is Cornelius, a man who “feared God” but did not know Christ until Peter preached the gospel of Christ to him, after which he was saved and filled with the Holy Ghost. (Acts 10)
The Pharisees, to whom Jesus was speaking in John 6, were not men who “feared God.” They were hypocrites who only pretended to fear God, and Jesus was exposing their hypocrisy by proving the fact that they didn’t really belong to God. If they truly feared God, they would come to Jesus, God’s only way to the Father, as did Cornelius. (Please see All That the Father Gives Me Will Come to Me.)
I hope you can see that the way in which I’ve interpreted these 2 passages leaves no contradiction—the way to be reconciled to God is by Jesus Christ, but only a God-fearing man will come to Jesus Christ. The enemies of God will reject the messengers of God, including Jesus. But the way in which the Calvinist interprets the John 6 passage introduces a terrible contradiction, not to mention a slander on the character of God—for they assert that God holds back the majority of people from ever coming to Jesus for salvation, and then punishes them in eternal fire for doing what He made them do!
Back to my thesis, we are elect when we properly identify with the Son of God, Jesus Christ–that is, we repent of our sins as commanded and place a submissive and obedient faith in Christ. All who are found in Jesus at the end of their lives or at the coming of Jesus are God’s elect. God has pre-determined that every person who properly identifies with Jesus (and endures to the end in such a state—Matt. 10:22) will be saved. These are His elect, whom He will gather from the four winds at His appearing (Matt. 24:31).
The key here is understanding that there is ONE QUALIFICATION for God’s elect. They must be found in Jesus, because Jesus IS God’s elect. Thus we see that Jesus truly is The Way, and no man comes to God but by Him.
Jesus IS God’s elect:
Isa 42:1 Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One in whom my soul delights! I have put my Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.
I Peter 2:6 …Behold I lay in Zion a chief cornerstone, elect, precious, and he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.
Other verses which refer to God’s elect are referring to those who are in Christ, including Matt. 24:22, 24; Luke 18:7; Rom. 8:33, 11:7; Col. 3:12; 2 Tim. 2:10; I Peter 1:2, 5:13; and 2 John 1:1, 13.
I Peter 1:2 tells us something important about the elect:
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ…
God knows all things, past, present and future. His foreknowledge does not indicate that there is a pre-written script. He exists outside of time. Thus He knows the future as well as the present. He knows who will be found in Christ Jesus and saved. Notice in the verse that those called “elect” are those being sanctified and sprinkled by Jesus’ blood. They are “in Christ.” The verse does not tell us that unsaved people are arbitrarily elected to salvation. It tells us that those God foreknew would be in Christ are elected to salvation. This is because Jesus is THE Elect One. This truth is evident from other Scriptures, which must also be taken into account.
God adopts all who are in Christ:
Anyone who has the Son has the Father also. I Jn. 2:24.
Those found in Christ are adopted as sons by the Father. Rom 8:15.
Rom 8:29 For whom He did foreknow (have knowledge of beforehand), he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Those whom God foreknows will identify with His Son, He also predestinates to be like His Son, and to be adopted into His family.)
Eph 1:4-6 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Please notice that we are “chosen” in Christ. (Christ is the Chosen one.)
Notice that we are predestinated for adoption by Jesus Christ.
Notice we are accepted IN Jesus Christ (the Beloved.)
The person who is IN Christ is therefore chosen, predestinated for adoption, and accepted—because they are in Christ.
Jesus is the Chosen one.
Matt 12:18 Behold! My Servant whom I have chosen, My beloved in whom My soul is well pleased!…
Luke 23:35 …Let Him save Himself if He is the Christ, the chosen of God.
I Peter 2:4 Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious.
If we are In Christ, we too are chosen:
Eph 1:4 Just as He chose us IN HIM before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love.
Please notice we are chosen IN HIM! This is because HE is THE CHOSEN ONE.
Jesus was the lamb slain from the foundation of the world, Rev. 13:8. This does not mean all people from the beginning of time are saved automatically. Nor does Eph 1:4 mean that individuals were singled out as “chosen” no matter what their own choices might be.
Jesus is the one chosen and slain before the foundation of the world. And God has ordained that all who are found in Him are chosen with Him. This is why we must abide in Him if we want to live and be fruitful! (John 15)
God gives choice to all men and commands repentance toward God and faith toward Jesus Christ. He enables all men to respond in faith; He has initiated salvation for every man, but all men have not met His conditions. Only those who are found IN HIM can be called chosen, because God CHOSE before the foundation of the world to elect all persons who are IN CHRIST to be saved.
Election and “The Elect”
Without a doubt, “election” is a Christian doctrine. The question is, what is election, and how is one elected? Are Calvinists correct to say that God pre-ordains some particular men t…
israeliteindeed.wordpress.com
Read carefully, I don't particularly endorse this.
J.
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