An Article on free will

TomL said:
You failed to address these also

How were these able to believe

Luke 8:13 (LEB) — 13 And those on the rock are those who receive the word with joy when they hear it, and these do not have enough root, who believe for a time and in a time of testing fall away.

and why it was necessary to harden these so they do not believe

John 12:40 (LEB) — 40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, lest they see with their eyes and understand with their hearts and turn, and I heal them.”

and just repeat your old repeat claims which ignores lexical and commentary data as well as parallel texts

and immediate context

John 3:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

5. see someth.=experience someth. (Ps 26:13); good days 1 Pt 3:10 (Ps 33:13; τ. βασιλείαν J 3:3. θάνατον see death=die Lk 2:26; Hb 11:5 (cf. Ps 88:49; Anth. Pal. 6, 230 ἰδεῖν Ἀίδην); grief Rv 18:7 (cf. 1 Macc 13:3 τὰς στενοχωρίας; Eccl 6:6 ἀγαθωσύνην). τὴν διαφθοράν experience decay=decay Ac 2:27, 31; 13:35-7 (all Ps 15:10); τ. ἡμέραν (Soph., Oed. R. 831; Aristoph., Pax 345; Polyb. 10, 4, 7; 32, 10, 9; Ael. Aristid. 32 p. 601 D.; Lam 2:16; Jos., Ant. 6, 305): τὴν ἡμέραν τ. ἐμήν J 8:56; μίαν τῶν ἡμερῶν Lk 17:22



William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 221.







4. to experience ⇔ see — to experience something, conceived of as being present during the experience so as to view it



Rick Brannan, ed., Lexham Research Lexicon of the Greek New Testament (Lexham Research Lexicons; Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2020).



As seen the context of John 3:3 is speaking of experiencing not believing as you falsely claimed



Observed this well known Calvinist commentary



cannot see—can have no part in (just as one is said to “see life,” “see death,” &c.).



Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset, and David Brown, Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (vol. 2; Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997), 131.



And this Calvinist Greek Scholar



He cannot see the kingdom of God (οὐ δυναται ἰδειν την βασιλειαν του θεου [ou dunatai idein tēn basileian tou theou]). To participate in it as in Luke 9:27. For this use of ἰδειν [idein] (second aorist active infinitive of ὁραω [horaō]) see John 8:51; Rev. 18:7.



A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Jn 3:3.



And Calvin himself



To SEE the kingdom of God is of the same meaning as to ENTER INTO the kingdom of God, as we shall immediately perceive from the context



John Calvin and William Pringle, Commentary on the Gospel according to John (vol. 1; Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2010), 108.

Also other verses using the word see



Luke 2:26And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord’s Christ.

John 3:36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 8:51Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

Heb 11:5By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.



It is clear an honest handling of this word shows it pertains to experience, to enter, to obtain

but you are not an honest handler of god's word
Click to expand...
Yes @Kermos failed miserably in addressing your scripture
 
TomL said:
Sorry belief is belief and faith is faith

There is bno special category of believing spirtually vs believing non spiritually

Scripture stated they did believe

How were these able to believe with no ability

Luke 8:13 (LEB) — 13 And those on the rock are those who receive the word with joy when they hear it, and these do not have enough root, who believe for a time and in a time of testing fall away.

and why it was necessary to harden these so they do not believe

John 12:40 (LEB) — 40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, lest they see with their eyes and understand with their hearts and turn, and I heal them.”

Your theology has no answer
Click to expand...
They didn't believe Spiritually and couldn't. Sure man can believe naturally, but there is no spiritual root, life Matt 13:20-21

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

See he received seed in stony places, a unrenewed, unregenerate heart, so he will fall away,

But the one who receives seed on good ground, denoting a regenerate heart, he will understand it spiritually and bear fruit Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

See none of the other grounds were good and understood the word, because they weren't regenerate.
 
brightfame52 said:
They didn't believe Spiritually and couldn't. Sure man can believe naturally, but there is no spiritual root, life Matt 13:20-21

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

See he received seed in stony places, a unrenewed, unregenerate heart, so he will fall away,

But the one who receives seed on good ground, denoting a regenerate heart, he will understand it spiritually and bear fruit Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

See none of the other grounds were good and understood the word, because they weren't regenerate.
Click to expand...
Sorry belief is belief and faith is faith

There is no special category of believing spirtually vs believing non spiritually

Scripture stated they did believe

How were these able to believe with no ability

Luke 8:13 (LEB) — 13 And those on the rock are those who receive the word with joy when they hear it, and these do not have enough root, who believe for a time and in a time of testing fall away.

and why it was necessary to harden these so they do not believe

John 12:40 (LEB) — 40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, lest they see with their eyes and understand with their hearts and turn, and I heal them.”

Your theology has no answer

BTW there is no mention of regeneration in the passage

and you still have no answer how unregenerate men were able to believe nor are you able to explain why God had to harden unregenerate men to prevent belief

H
 
TomL said:
Sorry belief is belief and faith is faith

There is no special category of believing spirtually vs believing non spiritually

Scripture stated they did believe

How were these able to believe with no ability

Luke 8:13 (LEB) — 13 And those on the rock are those who receive the word with joy when they hear it, and these do not have enough root, who believe for a time and in a time of testing fall away.

and why it was necessary to harden these so they do not believe

John 12:40 (LEB) — 40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, lest they see with their eyes and understand with their hearts and turn, and I heal them.”

Your theology has no answer

BTW there is no mention of regeneration in the passage

and you still have no answer how unregenerate men were able to believe nor are you able to explain why God had to harden unregenerate men to prevent belief

H
Click to expand...
They didn't believe Spiritually and couldn't. Sure man can believe naturally, but there is no spiritual root, life Matt 13:20-21

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

See he received seed in stony places, a unrenewed, unregenerate heart, so he will fall away,

But the one who receives seed on good ground, denoting a regenerate heart, he will understand it spiritually and bear fruit Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

See none of the other grounds were good and understood the word, because they weren't regenerate.
 
brightfame52 said:
They didn't believe Spiritually and couldn't. Sure man can believe naturally, but there is no spiritual root, life Matt 13:20-21

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

See he received seed in stony places, a unrenewed, unregenerate heart, so he will fall away,

But the one who receives seed on good ground, denoting a regenerate heart, he will understand it spiritually and bear fruit Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

See none of the other grounds were good and understood the word, because they weren't regenerate.
Click to expand...
Sorry belief is belief and faith is faith

There is no special category of believing spirtually vs believing non spiritually

Scripture stated they did believe

Why do you deny scripture

How were these able to believe with no ability

Luke 8:13 (LEB) — 13 And those on the rock are those who receive the word with joy when they hear it, and these do not have enough root, who believe for a time and in a time of testing fall away.

and why it was necessary to harden these so they do not believe

John 12:40 (LEB) — 40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, lest they see with their eyes and understand with their hearts and turn, and I heal them.”

Your theology has no answer

BTW there is no mention of regeneration in the passage

and you still have no answer how unregenerate men were able to believe nor are you able to explain why God had to harden unregenerate men to prevent belief
 
TomL said:
Sorry belief is belief and faith is faith

There is no special category of believing spirtually vs believing non spiritually

Scripture stated they did believe

Why do you deny scripture

How were these able to believe with no ability

Luke 8:13 (LEB) — 13 And those on the rock are those who receive the word with joy when they hear it, and these do not have enough root, who believe for a time and in a time of testing fall away.

and why it was necessary to harden these so they do not believe

John 12:40 (LEB) — 40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, lest they see with their eyes and understand with their hearts and turn, and I heal them.”

Your theology has no answer

BTW there is no mention of regeneration in the passage

and you still have no answer how unregenerate men were able to believe nor are you able to explain why God had to harden unregenerate men to prevent belief
Click to expand...
They didn't believe Spiritually and couldn't. Sure man can believe naturally, but there is no spiritual root, life Matt 13:20-21

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

See he received seed in stony places, a unrenewed, unregenerate heart, so he will fall away,

But the one who receives seed on good ground, denoting a regenerate heart, he will understand it spiritually and bear fruit Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

See none of the other grounds were good and understood the word, because they weren't regenerate.
 
civic said:
yes the two fatalists/hyper calvinists are in agreement that is a huge surprise lol.
Click to expand...

Christians are discernable by Christian confession, such as, we Christians confess the Word of God is Truth (John 14:6).

I confess that Lord Jesus Christ means exactly that which He proclaims in the following of His quotes!

You confess that you believe you buy your way into heaven with your free-will saying "apart from Christ, I chose Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63), so you preach and teach and believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1; 2 Peter 2:9-10).

You do not choose God.

I believe in the Christ whom the Father has sent!

This is an interlude at about the halfway mark in the examination of your belief in God's Resistible Grace, with a most recent post of post #5,190 - Your Heart Revised History In 2 Chronicles 36:15-16 As Your Self-willed "proof" that God's Grace Is Resistible and Earnable.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE GOD - THE GIVER OF LIFE AND SIGHT!!!
 
Kermos said:
Christians are discernable by Christian confession, such as, we Christians confess the Word of God is Truth (John 14:6).

I confess that Lord Jesus Christ means exactly that which He proclaims in the following of His quotes!

You confess that you believe you buy your way into heaven with your free-will saying "apart from Christ, I chose Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63), so you preach and teach and believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1; 2 Peter 2:9-10).

You do not choose God.

I believe in the Christ whom the Father has sent!

This is an interlude at about the halfway mark in the examination of your belief in God's Resistible Grace, with a most recent post of post #5,190 - Your Heart Revised History In 2 Chronicles 36:15-16 As Your Self-willed "proof" that God's Grace Is Resistible and Earnable.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE GOD - THE GIVER OF LIFE AND SIGHT!!!
Click to expand...
you confess fatalism
 
brightfame52 said:
They didn't believe Spiritually and couldn't. Sure man can believe naturally, but there is no spiritual root, life Matt 13:20-21

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

See he received seed in stony places, a unrenewed, unregenerate heart, so he will fall away,

But the one who receives seed on good ground, denoting a regenerate heart, he will understand it spiritually and bear fruit Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

See none of the other grounds were good and understood the word, because they weren't regenerate.
Click to expand...
You ignored this and just repeated yourself

orry belief is belief and faith is faith

There is no special category of believing spirtually vs believing non spiritually

Scripture stated they did believe

Why do you deny scripture

How were these able to believe with no ability

Luke 8:13 (LEB) — 13 And those on the rock are those who receive the word with joy when they hear it, and these do not have enough root, who believe for a time and in a time of testing fall away.

and why it was necessary to harden these so they do not believe

John 12:40 (LEB) — 40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, lest they see with their eyes and understand with their hearts and turn, and I heal them.”

Your theology has no answer

BTW there is no mention of regeneration in the passage

and you still have no answer how unregenerate men were able to believe nor are you able to explain why God had to harden unregenerate men to prevent belief
 
TomL said:
You ignored this and just repeated yourself

orry belief is belief and faith is faith

There is no special category of believing spirtually vs believing non spiritually

Scripture stated they did believe

Why do you deny scripture

How were these able to believe with no ability

Luke 8:13 (LEB) — 13 And those on the rock are those who receive the word with joy when they hear it, and these do not have enough root, who believe for a time and in a time of testing fall away.

and why it was necessary to harden these so they do not believe

John 12:40 (LEB) — 40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, lest they see with their eyes and understand with their hearts and turn, and I heal them.”

Your theology has no answer

BTW there is no mention of regeneration in the passage

and you still have no answer how unregenerate men were able to believe nor are you able to explain why God had to harden unregenerate men to prevent belief
Click to expand...
They didn't believe Spiritually and couldn't.
 
brightfame52 said:
They didn't believe Spiritually and couldn't.
Click to expand...
John 3:16: “that whoever believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.” And Romans 10:13: “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

CALVINIST TWIST: “Yes, God commands all people to believe in Him and tells us that whoever believes will be saved, but this doesn’t mean that anyone can believe in Him and be saved. He just means that all the elect will believe in Him and be saved.”
 
Ahar said:
John 3:16: “that whoever believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.” And Romans 10:13: “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

CALVINIST TWIST: “Yes, God commands all people to believe in Him and tells us that whoever believes will be saved, but this doesn’t mean that anyone can believe in Him and be saved. He just means that all the elect will believe in Him and be saved.”
Click to expand...
They didn't believe Spiritually and couldn't.
 
TomL said:
You ignored this and just repeated yourself

orry belief is belief and faith is faith

There is no special category of believing spirtually vs believing non spiritually

Scripture stated they did believe

Why do you deny scripture

How were these able to believe with no ability

Luke 8:13 (LEB) — 13 And those on the rock are those who receive the word with joy when they hear it, and these do not have enough root, who believe for a time and in a time of testing fall away.

and why it was necessary to harden these so they do not believe

John 12:40 (LEB) — 40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, lest they see with their eyes and understand with their hearts and turn, and I heal them.”

Your theology has no answer

BTW there is no mention of regeneration in the passage

and you still have no answer how unregenerate men were able to believe nor are you able to explain why God had to harden unregenerate men to prevent belief
Click to expand...


Context of John 12:40
John 12:40 quotes from Isaiah 6:10. To understand its context, let's look at both the Gospel of John and the book of Isaiah.

In the Gospel of John
John 12:37-43:

Despite Jesus performing many signs and miracles, the people did not believe in Him.

John 12:37: "Though he had done so many signs before them, they still did not believe in him."

John 12:38-39: John refers to Isaiah’s prophecy to explain this unbelief: "Lord, who has believed our report?" and "He has blinded their eyes..."

Purpose:

The citation from Isaiah explains the people's inability to believe as part of a divine plan. This shows that their rejection of Jesus fulfills the prophecy.

This passage suggests that their persistent unbelief led to a hardening of their hearts as a consequence.

In the Book of Isaiah
Isaiah 6:8-10:

Isaiah's vision and commission include God telling Isaiah that the people will hear but not understand, see but not perceive.

Isaiah 6:10: "Make the heart of this people dull, and their ears heavy, and blind their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed."

Purpose:

This message comes as a warning and a sign of judgment. The people's persistent sin has led to a point where they will not repent, leading to judgment.

It shows the spiritual blindness and hardening of the people's hearts due to their continuous disobedience.

Key Takeaways
Fulfillment of Prophecy: John's use of Isaiah shows that Jesus' ministry and the people's response were already foretold by the prophets.

Spiritual Blindness: Both passages highlight the concept of spiritual blindness and the hardening of the heart as a result of persistent unbelief and disobedience.

Divine Plan: This emphasizes the idea that even the rejection of Jesus is part of a greater divine plan.

Correct @TomL?

J.
 

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