An Article on free will

TomL said:
You ignored this and just repeated yourself

orry belief is belief and faith is faith

There is no special category of believing spirtually vs believing non spiritually

Scripture stated they did believe

Why do you deny scripture

How were these able to believe with no ability

Luke 8:13 (LEB) — 13 And those on the rock are those who receive the word with joy when they hear it, and these do not have enough root, who believe for a time and in a time of testing fall away.

and why it was necessary to harden these so they do not believe

John 12:40 (LEB) — 40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, lest they see with their eyes and understand with their hearts and turn, and I heal them.”

Your theology has no answer

BTW there is no mention of regeneration in the passage

and you still have no answer how unregenerate men were able to believe nor are you able to explain why God had to harden unregenerate men to prevent belief
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ditto
 
civic said:
like a Jew you are saved by the works of the law identifying faith as a work in John 6:29.

you would change ephesians 2 to say it is by grace though works we are saved instead of faith.

your heretical view of John 6:29 has been exposed.

next fallacy
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You fail to understand the work of God.

Your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) "like a Jew you are saved by the works of the law identifying faith as a work in John 6:29" adulterates the Holy Scripture as evidenced through your own writings recorded in your post to which God causes me to respond now:
The Book of civic The Book of the Apostle John
This is your work of the Law, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.
(civic 6:29)		 This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.
(Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29)
so your heart preaches your sovereignty of man eliminating the Sovereignty of God, and so go your adulterations of the the Holy Scripture, again.

I believe my Lord Jesus!

The Apostle Paul wrote that faith is the gift of God while at the same time faith is not a work of man in "by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work" (the Apostle Paul, Ephesians 2:8-10).

I believe the Apostle Paul!

Behold, you revisionist history about your God’s Resistible Grace in 2 Chronicles 36:14-16 is a fallacy as shown in post #5,190 - Your Heart Revised History In 2 Chronicles 36:15-16 As Your Self-willed "proof" that God's Grace Is Resistible and Earnable.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!
 
Kermos said:
You fail to understand the work of God.

Your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) "like a Jew you are saved by the works of the law identifying faith as a work in John 6:29" adulterates the Holy Scripture as evidenced through your own writings recorded in your post to which God causes me to respond now:
The Book of civicThe Book of the Apostle John
This is your work of the Law, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.
(civic 6:29)		This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.
(Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29)
so your heart preaches your sovereignty of man eliminating the Sovereignty of God, and so go your adulterations of the the Holy Scripture, again.

I believe my Lord Jesus!

The Apostle Paul wrote that faith is the gift of God while at the same time faith is not a work of man in "by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work" (the Apostle Paul, Ephesians 2:8-10).

I believe the Apostle Paul!

Behold, you revisionist history about your God’s Resistible Grace in 2 Chronicles 36:14-16 is a fallacy as shown in post #5,190 - Your Heart Revised History In 2 Chronicles 36:15-16 As Your Self-willed "proof" that God's Grace Is Resistible and Earnable.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!
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faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ.

Bible Truth 101.

next fallacy
 
civic said:
faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ.

Bible Truth 101.

next fallacy
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You do not believe Lord Jesus Christ who is the very Word of God saying "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." (John 6:29). So, faith in Jesus inside us Christians is the blessed work of God, Hallelujah and Amen!

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE EMMANUEL!!!
 
Kermos said:
You do not believe Lord Jesus Christ who is the very Word of God saying "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." (John 6:29). So, faith in Jesus inside us Christians is the blessed work of God, Hallelujah and Amen!

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE EMMANUEL!!!
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You twist it’s meaning to contradict the rest of the entire Bible
 
civic said:
You twist it’s meaning to contradict the rest of the entire Bible
Click to expand...

The Word of God says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29). The word of Christ is absolutely clear, but you do not believe Christ.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE EMMANUEL!!!
 
Kermos said:
The Word of God says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29). The word of Christ is absolutely clear, but you do not believe Christ.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE EMMANUEL!!!
Click to expand...
You clearly do not understand the Bible and especially this verse in its context

Verse 29. - Christ's reply really solves the great problem which had long perplexed the schools of Palestine, and often, and even to the present hour, is dividing into two hostile camps the Christian Church. Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God. Observe, not "works," but "work" - the one work which is the germ and the consummation of all the partial workings which are often made substitutes for it. There is "one work" which God would have man do. Jesus admits that there is something to do (ποιεῖν) - there is a labour, an effort of the will needed to do what God requires; and this is evident enough as soon as this great work is described, viz. That ye believe on him whom he (the Father) sent; or, hath sent. Ἵνα πιστεύητε, here preferred by the R.T. to πιστεύσητε (see John 13:19), marks the simple fact and continuous act of believing with the effort tending to such result; while the aorist would have pointed to one definite act of faith (see Westcott).. To "believe on him," to habitually entrust one's self to the power and grace of Christ, to make a full moral surrender of the soul to the Lord, includes in itself all other work, and is in itself the great work of God. "It is the Christian answer to the Jewish question" (Thoma). "Faith is the life of works, works the necessity of faith" (Westcott). "Faith is the highest kind of work, for by it man gives himself to God, and a free being can do nothing greater than give himself: St. James opposes work to a faith which would be nothing but intellectual belief. St. Paul opposes faith, active faith, to works of mere observance. The 'faith' of St. Paul is really the 'work' of St. James, according to this sovereign formula of Jesus, 'This is the work of God, that ye believe'" (Godet). Luther says, "To depend on God's Word, so that the heart is not terrified by sin and death, but trusts and believes in God, is a much severer and more difficult thing than the Carthusians or all orders of monks demand." Schleiermachcr says, "This is the most significant declaration, that all eternal life proceeds from nothing else than faith in Christ." John 6:29. Pulpit comm


Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews' question contemplates numerous works. Jesus' answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that "this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.Vincent
 
civic said:
You clearly do not understand the Bible and especially this verse in its context

Verse 29. - Christ's reply really solves the great problem which had long perplexed the schools of Palestine, and often, and even to the present hour, is dividing into two hostile camps the Christian Church. Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God. Observe, not "works," but "work" - the one work which is the germ and the consummation of all the partial workings which are often made substitutes for it. There is "one work" which God would have man do. Jesus admits that there is something to do (ποιεῖν) - there is a labour, an effort of the will needed to do what God requires; and this is evident enough as soon as this great work is described, viz. That ye believe on him whom he (the Father) sent; or, hath sent. Ἵνα πιστεύητε, here preferred by the R.T. to πιστεύσητε (see John 13:19), marks the simple fact and continuous act of believing with the effort tending to such result; while the aorist would have pointed to one definite act of faith (see Westcott).. To "believe on him," to habitually entrust one's self to the power and grace of Christ, to make a full moral surrender of the soul to the Lord, includes in itself all other work, and is in itself the great work of God. "It is the Christian answer to the Jewish question" (Thoma). "Faith is the life of works, works the necessity of faith" (Westcott). "Faith is the highest kind of work, for by it man gives himself to God, and a free being can do nothing greater than give himself: St. James opposes work to a faith which would be nothing but intellectual belief. St. Paul opposes faith, active faith, to works of mere observance. The 'faith' of St. Paul is really the 'work' of St. James, according to this sovereign formula of Jesus, 'This is the work of God, that ye believe'" (Godet). Luther says, "To depend on God's Word, so that the heart is not terrified by sin and death, but trusts and believes in God, is a much severer and more difficult thing than the Carthusians or all orders of monks demand." Schleiermachcr says, "This is the most significant declaration, that all eternal life proceeds from nothing else than faith in Christ." John 6:29. Pulpit comm


Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews' question contemplates numerous works. Jesus' answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that "this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.Vincent
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Your word of man leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9) because your word of man denies the Word of God who says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29). So, faith in Jesus inside us Christians is the blessed work of God, Hallelujah and Amen!

You do not believe Lord Jesus Christ.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE FAITH!!!
 
TomL said:
You failed to address these also

How were these able to believe

Luke 8:13 (LEB) — 13 And those on the rock are those who receive the word with joy when they hear it, and these do not have enough root, who believe for a time and in a time of testing fall away.

and why it was necessary to harden these so they do not believe

John 12:40 (LEB) — 40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, lest they see with their eyes and understand with their hearts and turn, and I heal them.”

and just repeat your old repeat claims which ignores lexical and commentary data as well as parallel texts

and immediate context

John 3:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

5. see someth.=experience someth. (Ps 26:13); good days 1 Pt 3:10 (Ps 33:13; τ. βασιλείαν J 3:3. θάνατον see death=die Lk 2:26; Hb 11:5 (cf. Ps 88:49; Anth. Pal. 6, 230 ἰδεῖν Ἀίδην); grief Rv 18:7 (cf. 1 Macc 13:3 τὰς στενοχωρίας; Eccl 6:6 ἀγαθωσύνην). τὴν διαφθοράν experience decay=decay Ac 2:27, 31; 13:35-7 (all Ps 15:10); τ. ἡμέραν (Soph., Oed. R. 831; Aristoph., Pax 345; Polyb. 10, 4, 7; 32, 10, 9; Ael. Aristid. 32 p. 601 D.; Lam 2:16; Jos., Ant. 6, 305): τὴν ἡμέραν τ. ἐμήν J 8:56; μίαν τῶν ἡμερῶν Lk 17:22



William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 221.







4. to experience ⇔ see — to experience something, conceived of as being present during the experience so as to view it



Rick Brannan, ed., Lexham Research Lexicon of the Greek New Testament (Lexham Research Lexicons; Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2020).



As seen the context of John 3:3 is speaking of experiencing not believing as you falsely claimed



Observed this well known Calvinist commentary



cannot see—can have no part in (just as one is said to “see life,” “see death,” &c.).



Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset, and David Brown, Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (vol. 2; Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997), 131.



And this Calvinist Greek Scholar



He cannot see the kingdom of God (οὐ δυναται ἰδειν την βασιλειαν του θεου [ou dunatai idein tēn basileian tou theou]). To participate in it as in Luke 9:27. For this use of ἰδειν [idein] (second aorist active infinitive of ὁραω [horaō]) see John 8:51; Rev. 18:7.



A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Jn 3:3.



And Calvin himself



To SEE the kingdom of God is of the same meaning as to ENTER INTO the kingdom of God, as we shall immediately perceive from the context



John Calvin and William Pringle, Commentary on the Gospel according to John (vol. 1; Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2010), 108.

Also other verses using the word see



Luke 2:26And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord’s Christ.

John 3:36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 8:51Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

Heb 11:5By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.



It is clear an honest handling of this word shows it pertains to experience, to enter, to obtain

but you are not an honest handler of god's word
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You fail to address the following in Truth (John 14:6). Your anti-truth points were addressed in post #5,197 and post #4,906 and elsewhere in this thread.

TomL said:
Are you well?

Your words

"then you fail to understand basic English because Jesus literally says that people do not have the ability to judge what is right on their own initiative when He asks them why they do not have the ability"
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Thank you for proving that I did not write "cannot" in reference to "why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right
(Lord Jesus Christ, Luke 12:57), so you argue with yourself because you persist with "cannot". You are dead wrong about man having free-will to choose God, and, the Truth (John 14:6) is that no Word of God indicates man was imparted a free-will to choose God. God is exclusively Sovereign in man's salvation as shown in the past posts in this exchange in Truth (John 14:6).

You cannot choose God, and you always fail to judge rightly in your own initiative to choose the Righteous God because the Word of God says such between the below and above.

You believe you buy your way into heaven with your free-will saying "apart from Christ, I chose Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63), so you preach and teach and believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1; 2 Peter 2:9-10).

You wrote "John 15:5 speaks of the believers walk not the ability to believe" (proof post #4,906), so you adulterate the Word of God in order for your heart to nullify the Word of God, and your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) interpretation intention to delete the Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
TomL's Self-exaltation Exaltation of Christ
I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for you can choose to believe in me apart from Me
(TomL 15:5).		 I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing
(Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:5).
so your heart preaches your sovereignty of man eliminating the Sovereignty of God, and so go your adulterations of the the Holy Word of God.

Moreover, you do not believe Jesus (John 5:45-47) when He says "see" (John 3:3) as can be seen in when you wrote "John 3:3 speaks of on experiencing the kingdom of God not seeing it" (proof post #4,906), so you adulterate the Word of God in order for your heart to nullify the Word of God, and your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) interpretation intention to delete the Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
The word of TomL The Word of God
Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot experience yet he can see the Kingdom of God
(TomL 3:3).		 Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God
(Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:3).
so your heart preaches your sovereignty of man eliminating the Sovereignty of God, and so go your adulterations of the Holy Word of God again.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE GOD - THE GIVER OF LIFE AND SIGHT!!!
 
Kermos said:
You fail to address the following in Truth (John 14:6).
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(John 14:6) Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Of course Christ is the one and only Mediator between us and the Father. You're barking up the wrong tree. You can accuse the Baha'i of not believing that. We're not Baha'i. Do you understand? You just love brewing up one strawman after another.
 
TomL said:
Believing spiritually is a category never mentioned in the bible

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-131741
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They didn't believe Spiritually and couldn't. Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Believing spiritually simply means they didnt obey through the Spirit 1 Pet 1:22

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
 
brightfame52 said:
They didn't believe Spiritually and couldn't. Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Believing spiritually simply means they didnt obey through the Spirit 1 Pet 1:22

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
Click to expand...
Believing spiritually is a category never mentioned in the bible

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-131741
 

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