An Article on free will

[brightfame52]

By obedience to law



Romans 8:7–8 (LEB) — 7 because the mindset of the flesh is enmity toward God, for it is not subjected to the law of God, for it is not able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh are not able to please God.

Which shows it is by obedience to law one cannot please God

however one can by faith

Hebrews 11:6 (LEB) — 6 Now without faith it is impossible to please him, for the one who approaches God must believe that he exists and is a rewarder of those who seek him.

Man by nature, carnal mind cannot submit to the Law of God,hence cannot submit to God, cant separate God from His Law Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Notice the carnal mind is enmity against God as well, so the carnal mind hates God. The word enmity echthra:
hatred, its the same word in Gal 5:20

Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

That cannot be changed as long as we are unregenerate in the flesh

 

[brightfame52]

@TomL

By obedience to law

Nor the Gospel, man by nature with carnal mind cannot submit to God period. The word subject Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
hypotassō:

1. to arrange under, to subordinate
2. to subject, put in subjection
3. to subject one's self, obey
4. to submit to one's control
5. to yield to one's admonition or advice
6. to obey, be subject

The word law nomos
anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command

1. of any law whatsoever
   1. a law or rule producing a state approved of God
      1. by the observance of which is approved of God
   2. a precept or injunction
   3. the rule of action prescribed by reason
2. of the Mosaic law, and referring, acc. to the context. either to the volume of the law or to its contents
3. the Christian religion: the law demanding faith, the moral instruction given by Christ, esp. the precept concerning love

Now Faith in Christ from hearing the Gospel is an act of obedience to a command of God Rom 10:16

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

The unregenerate carnal mind cannot obey Gods command, not subject to the law/command of God

Its an commandment to believe on the name of the Son of God 1 Jn 3:23

And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Now if you believe the unregenerate carnal mind that's enmity against God can obey this command to believe on Christ, you defy scripture testimony.

 

[synergy]

Mans will naturally isnt free, but fallen, sold under sin. Paul as a regenerate man testifies to that Rom 7:14-20

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

So a Calvinist is stuck, not able to do anything, not even appeal to God? I guess that's why calvinists always advise that everyone stays inert, does nothing, and always waits for the zapping.

 

[civic]

Mans will naturally isnt free, but fallen, sold under sin. Paul as a regenerate man testifies to that Rom 7:14-20

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Paul was under the law and unregenerate in Roman’s 7

Romans 7:7–25 unpacks verse 5, and Romans 8:1–17 unpacks verse 6. In verses 7–25 we see how sin via the law brings death to those in the flesh, and in Romans 8:1–17 we see how the Spirit grants life to those who belong to Jesus Christ. Romans 7:5–6 forecasts what Paul is about to say in remarkably clear terms. The Holy Spirit is never mentioned in Romans 7:7–25. But Paul refers to the Spirit 15 times in Romans 8:1–17, suggesting that the person described in Romans 7:7–25 is one who doesn’t have the Spirit in his life. The essence of what it means to be a Christian is to be indwelt with the Spirit (Rom. 8:9). We see in both Romans 7:14 and 7:18 that the one described is of the “flesh,” one who is still in the old Adam, one who is unregenerate.


The total defeat described in Romans 7 contradicts how Paul describes Christian experience in Romans 6 and 8. Paul proclaims in Romans 6 that we’re no longer slaves to sin (6:6), that we’re free from the sin that enslaved us when we were unbelievers (Rom. 6:16–19).


Romans 7- Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3 So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.


4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.


7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.


13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.


14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.


21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.


A number of objections surface against what I’ve said. Let’s look at two of them briefly. First, how does a reference to unbelievers fit with Romans 7:23 (“For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being”)? Doesn’t such delight and longing for God’s law show that a believer is in view? Not necessarily. Many pious Jews loved God’s law and yet didn’t know God. Paul himself testifies that the Jews have a “zeal for God,” though they lacked knowledge (Rom. 10:2). There can be zeal and delight in the law (witness the Pharisees) when one isn’t truly saved.


Second, Paul shifts from past-tense verbs in Romans 7:7–11 to present-tense verbs in verses 14–25. Doesn’t that prove Christians are in view? Not necessarily. Scholars recognize that present tense doesn’t necessarily designate present time. The temporal nature of an action must be discerned from context, since present-tense verbs, even in the indicative, may be used with reference to the past or even the future.


The tense of the verb doesn’t emphasize time in Romans 7:7–25. Rather, the use of the present tense here fits with the state or condition of the person. Paul is emphasizing one’s captivity, subjugation, and impotence under the law. His use of the present tense doesn’t denote past time but highlights in a vivid way the slavery of life under the law.


If I’m right in the way I interpret this passage, the difference between me and those who see this as Christian experience isn’t great. After all, we both agree that believers fall short in numerous ways and that we struggle daily with sin. The reason we differ is that I see Romans 7:13–25 as describing total defeat, and that isn’t our story as Christians since the Holy Spirit also empowers us to live in a new way. Thomas Schreiner

hope this helps !!!

 

[Kermos]

5-Hebrews 12:14-15
Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. 15 See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.

"Love never fails" proclaimed the Apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 13:8), after all, "God is love" (1 John 4:16) proclaimed the Apostle John; therefore, the unearned Love (Grace) of God always succeeds! Praise be to Lord and God Jesus Christ for His enduring Love!!!

In your self-willed fashion, similar to how you truncated off Galatians 5:8 from when you quoted Galatians 5:4-7, you repeat your truncation error with Hebrews 12:14-15 since you omitted Hebrews 12:16 which reveals that this passage is a warning to "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves" (Matthew 7:15) - which is a warning against you who say the Grace of God fails. Let's look at the passage as it includes verse sixteen, as well.

Your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) interpretation adulterates the Holy Scripture as evidenced through your own writings recorded in your post to which God causes me to respond now:

The Book of civic		The Book of Hebrews
Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God, so they will choose the fullness of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled; (civic 12:14-15).		Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled; that there be no immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal. (Hebrews 12:14-16)

so your heart preaches your sovereignty of man eliminating the Sovereignty of God, and so go your adulterations of the the Holy Word of God.

According to your preaching, man controls the Love of God, yet Apostolic testimony is "the Love of Christ controls us" Christians (2 Corinthians 5:14) - a blessed Apostolic testimony in the Holy Spirit.

Your testimony is man earns the unearned Love of God because man chooses the Love of God.

This post is an integral continuation with:

1. post #5,018 - Evaluated Your Conclusion That God's Grace Is Resistible and Earnable.
2. post #5,019 - Your Adulteration of Matthew 22:3 As Your Self-willed "proof" that God's Grace Is Resistible and Earnable.
3. post #5,024 - Your Destruction of Jerusalem, Jerusalem in Matthew 23:37 As Your Self-willed "proof" that God's Grace Is Resistible and Earnable.
4. post #5,026 - Hebrews 6:4-8 Exposes The Impossibility Of A Christian To Expose The Christ To Public Shame Despite Your Self-willed "proof" that God's Grace Is Resistible and Earnable.
5. post #5,031 - You Declare The Almighty God Is Miserably Weak Per Your Heart's Rendition Of Luke 19:41 For Your Self-willed "proof" that God's Grace Is Resistible and Earnable.
6. post #5,036 - You fallen away from God's Grace is not you fallen out of God's Grace in Galatians 5:4-7, so your self-willed "proof" that God's Grace Is resistible and earnable fails to be your proof.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE LOVE OF GOD!!!

 

[TomL]

@TomL



Nor the Gospel, man by nature with carnal mind cannot submit to God period. The word subject Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
hypotassō:

1. to arrange under, to subordinate
2. to subject, put in subjection
3. to subject one's self, obey
4. to submit to one's control
5. to yield to one's admonition or advice
6. to obey, be subject

The word law nomos
anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command

1. of any law whatsoever
   1. a law or rule producing a state approved of God
      1. by the observance of which is approved of God
   2. a precept or injunction
   3. the rule of action prescribed by reason
2. of the Mosaic law, and referring, acc. to the context. either to the volume of the law or to its contents
3. the Christian religion: the law demanding faith, the moral instruction given by Christ, esp. the precept concerning love

Now Faith in Christ from hearing the Gospel is an act of obedience to a command of God Rom 10:16

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

The unregenerate carnal mind cannot obey Gods command, not subject to the law/command of God

Its an commandment to believe on the name of the Son of God 1 Jn 3:23

And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Now if you believe the unregenerate carnal mind that's enmity against God can obey this command to believe on Christ, you defy scripture testimony.

Then tell the readers why these were able to believe

Luke 8:13 (LEB) — 13 And those on the rock are those who receive the word with joy when they hear it, and these do not have enough root, who believe for a time and in a time of testing fall away.

and why it was necessary to harden these so they do not believe

John 12:40 (LEB) — 40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, lest they see with their eyes and understand with their hearts and turn, and I heal them.”

 

[TomL]

Man by nature, carnal mind cannot submit to the Law of God,hence cannot submit to God, cant separate God from His Law Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Notice the carnal mind is enmity against God as well, so the carnal mind hates God. The word enmity echthra:
hatred, its the same word in Gal 5:20

Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

That cannot be changed as long as we are unregenerate in the flesh

You are repeating yourself and ignoring scripture contrary to your view

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-129406

 

[TomL]

Mans will naturally isnt free, but fallen, sold under sin. Paul as a regenerate man testifies to that Rom 7:14-20

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Actually that appears to be the definition of an unregenerate man

Romans 7:14 (LEB) — 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am fleshly, sold into slavery to sin.

 

[civic]

"Love never fails" proclaimed the Apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 13:8), after all, "God is love" (1 John 4:16) proclaimed the Apostle John; therefore, the unearned Love (Grace) of God always succeeds! Praise be to Lord and God Jesus Christ for His enduring Love!!!

In your self-willed fashion, similar to how you truncated off Galatians 5:8 from when you quoted Galatians 5:4-7, you repeat your truncation error with Hebrews 12:14-15 since you omitted Hebrews 12:16 which reveals that this passage is a warning to "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves" (Matthew 7:15) - which is a warning against you who say the Grace of God fails. Let's look at the passage as it includes verse sixteen, as well.

Your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) interpretation adulterates the Holy Scripture as evidenced through your own writings recorded in your post to which God causes me to respond now:

The Book of civic		The Book of Hebrews
Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God, so they will choose the fullness of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled; (civic 12:14-15).		Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled; that there be no immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal. (Hebrews 12:14-16)

so your heart preaches your sovereignty of man eliminating the Sovereignty of God, and so go your adulterations of the the Holy Word of God.

According to your preaching, man controls the Love of God, yet Apostolic testimony is "the Love of Christ controls us" Christians (2 Corinthians 5:14) - a blessed Apostolic testimony in the Holy Spirit.

Your testimony is man earns the unearned Love of God because man chooses the Love of God.

This post is an integral continuation with:

1. post #5,018 - Evaluated Your Conclusion That God's Grace Is Resistible and Earnable.
2. post #5,019 - Your Adulteration of Matthew 22:3 As Your Self-willed "proof" that God's Grace Is Resistible and Earnable.
3. post #5,024 - Your Destruction of Jerusalem, Jerusalem in Matthew 23:37 As Your Self-willed "proof" that God's Grace Is Resistible and Earnable.
4. post #5,026 - Hebrews 6:4-8 Exposes The Impossibility Of A Christian To Expose The Christ To Public Shame Despite Your Self-willed "proof" that God's Grace Is Resistible and Earnable.
5. post #5,031 - You Declare The Almighty God Is Miserably Weak Per Your Heart's Rendition Of Luke 19:41 For Your Self-willed "proof" that God's Grace Is Resistible and Earnable.
6. post #5,036 - You fallen away from God's Grace is not you fallen out of God's Grace in Galatians 5:4-7, so your self-willed "proof" that God's Grace Is resistible and earnable fails to be your proof.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE LOVE OF GOD!!!

Great scriptures thanks but your comprehension is nonsense and fatalism.

You have no idea what it means when the Bible declares God is love. It’s foreign to your theology and experience.

 

[brightfame52]

So a Calvinist is stuck, not able to do anything, not even appeal to God? I guess that's why calvinists always advise that everyone stays inert, does nothing, and always waits for the zapping.

Man by nature is sold under sin, dead to God nothing he can do until made alive by Gods Grace.

 

[brightfame52]

@civic

Paul was under the law and unregenerate in Roman’s 7

False

 

[brightfame52]

Then tell the readers why these were able to believe

Luke 8:13 (LEB) — 13 And those on the rock are those who receive the word with joy when they hear it, and these do not have enough root, who believe for a time and in a time of testing fall away.

and why it was necessary to harden these so they do not believe

John 12:40 (LEB) — 40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, lest they see with their eyes and understand with their hearts and turn, and I heal them.”

Man in the flesh cant please God, and cannot obey, submit to God, andis at enmity against God, I ave given you scripture

 

[brightfame52]

You are repeating yourself and ignoring scripture contrary to your view

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-129406

Man by nature, carnal mind cannot submit to the Law of God,hence cannot submit to God, cant separate God from His Law Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Notice the carnal mind is enmity against God as well, so the carnal mind hates God. The word enmity echthra:
hatred, its the same word in Gal 5:20

Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

That cannot be changed as long as we are unregenerate in the flesh

 

[TomL]

Man by nature, carnal mind cannot submit to the Law of God,hence cannot submit to God, cant separate God from His Law Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Notice the carnal mind is enmity against God as well, so the carnal mind hates God. The word enmity echthra:
hatred, its the same word in Gal 5:20

Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

That cannot be changed as long as we are unregenerate in the flesh

Again can you tell the readers why these were able to believe

Then tell the readers why these were able to believe

Luke 8:13 (LEB) — 13 And those on the rock are those who receive the word with joy when they hear it, and these do not have enough root, who believe for a time and in a time of testing fall away.

and why it was necessary to harden these so they do not believe

John 12:40 (LEB) — 40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, lest they see with their eyes and understand with their hearts and turn, and I heal them.”

 

[TomL]

Man by nature is sold under sin, dead to God nothing he can do until made alive by Gods Grace.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-129470

Let me know when you are able to address the above

 

[TomL]

Great scriptures thanks but your comprehension is nonsense and fatalism.

You have no idea what it means when the Bible declares God is love. It’s foreign to your theology and experience.

In his theology love is sending rain to those on earth before God carries out his unconditionally determined plan for the eternal punishment of most.

 

[Kermos]

Let's take a brief interlude from your RESISTIBLE GRACE OF GOD with less than one third of the passages you quoted examined up to this point in post #5,045 - You believe Lord Jesus, who is Love, fails by your quoting of Hebrews 12:14-15 As Your Self-willed "proof" that God's Grace Is Resistible and Earnable, so we can review your previous severe errors.

CHRIST'S FAILURE ATONEMENT is your preaching, @civic.

John 8:39-45

That is a telling passage, civic, thank you for mentioning it!

They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham. But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. You are doing the deeds of your father." They said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God.” Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me"
(John 8:39-45)
​

When a person's heart practices the lawlessness of making false statements about God and man, then such a person magnifies his or her father the devil.

See the post to which you replied, and you will see the evidence of @TomL's deception.

Let us see your deceiving prophecy leads to Christ's failure atonement, and the method of your lie about me when you called me a man wearing woman's clothing theologian.

Now, back to where you and I left off recently.

projecting again, more gobblygook

You indicate no repentance. You indicate no apology for bearing false witness. You intensify you application of "gobblygook" against the very Word of God!

You are embarrassing yourself.

You twist my words just like you twist scripture. For the readers here is the meaning of gobblygook- longwinded, unintelligible, gibberish, nonsense etc....

Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more


noun
1944–
Language or jargon, esp. in bureaucratic or official contexts, which is pretentious, long-winded, or specialized to the point of being unintelligible to the general public; nonsense, gibberish.

You linguistic and research skills are impaired, and the proof is that the Oxford English Dictionary (OED) includes not the word "gobblygook" nor a definition for the word as per this link to the actual OED, https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?scope=Entries&q=gobblygook , instead of your faulty link to Google that opens to a "Learn about Dictionary boxes on Google" without any mention of the word "gobblygook" on the page!

Now, back to where we left off.

more gobblygook.

Behold the free-willian, civic, who insults and denies the Word of God that one must be born of God in order to even by able to perceive God (John 3:3) and believe in God (John 3:3-21), that free-willian civic labels this lovingly wonderful Word of God "gobbly" "gook" - "turkey" "excrement".

You called all the precious Word of God in post #3,250 your translated phrase "turkey dung".

Now, civic, let's return to where we left off.

Flip Wilson theology - the devil made me do it ( sin )
You reversed it god made me do it ( sin )

Both are wrong and unbiblical. As the Bible says out of the heart comes all kinds of evil and when one is tempted to sin no one can say God tempted me but you are carried away by your own lusts. The above two Bible passages are Paraphrased for simple understanding.

hope this helps !!!

You insulted me by calling me an abomination to God because it is written "neither shall a man put on women’s clothing; for whoever does these things is an abomination to Yahweh your God" (Deuteronomy 22:5), so you wickedly bear false witness against me. But you do not stop there, the depth of your depravity attributes your lie of me being a cross dresser as being caused by God. Your behavior is non-christian.

As I explained to you, I do not plan to stop talking about these verses that you quoted which you adulterate that demonstrate your thoughts that lead to Christ's failure atonement according to your traditions of men a.k.a. the Book of Free-willians. The verses to discuss are shown below.

The Atonement has no limits, you have a false gospel and make Jesus and the Apostles liars.

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Hebrews 2:9
But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

Titus 3:4
But when the kindness and the love of mankind of God our Savior appeared

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Corinthians 5:14
For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.

Loraine Boettner the world renown Calvinist theologian has stated on p. 59 of his book, The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination,

"prove any one of them true and all of the others will follow as logical and necessary parts of the system. Prove any one of them false and the whole system must be abandoned."

1)I have already proven irresistible grace is not true with Acts 7:51

2)I have proven the atonement is not limited- John 1:20, 3:16, 1 Tim 2:4-6, 2 Pet 3:9 and 1 John 2:2

3)I have proven that election is not unconditional- whosoever will may come, that means all, everyone from numerous passages . John 1:12 John 3:16

Conclusion : tulip is a false gospel

continued to post #5,058

 

[Kermos]

continued from post #5,057

hope this helps !!!

CHRIST'S FAILURE ATONEMENT is your preaching, @civic.

God causes me to visit each and every verse that you quoted.

As a reminder for you, for the definition of the word "world", you hold a death grip on "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ".

According to your Free-willian Philosophy, the following represents fleshly people, dead in sin, ungodly multitude, unbelievers:

• if Tom of the world chooses to believe in Christ before he dies, then God must profit Tom with eternal life being saved from the wrath of God.
• if Nancy of the world chooses to believe not in Christ right until her dying thoughts, then God must punish Nancy with eternal damnation being under the wrath of God.
• The conclusion: Christ succeeded in saving Tom of the world, and Christ failed in saving Nancy of the world.

So, you free-willians believe in failure atonement.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The Book of Free-willians		Holy Scripture
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who fails to take away the sin of the world! (civic 1:29)		The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! (John 1:29)
But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he ineffectively suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might ineffectually taste death for everyone like Judas Iscariot and people like Tom and people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God. (civic 2:9)		But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. (Hebrews 2:9)
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, even people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God but they enjoy salvation but they suffer punishment but they enjoy salvation-punishment (civic 2:11)		For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, (Titus 2:11)
But when the kindness and the love of mankind which includes God-displeasing sin-immersed self-willed under the wrath of God people like Nancy of God our Savior appeared (civic 3:4)		But when the kindness and the love of mankind of God our Savior appeared (Titus 3:4)

And so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

Lord Jesus says "men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their works were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light" (John 3:19-20) in the immediately same conversation as John 3:16!

Your adulteration of the Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The word of civic		The Word of God
For God so loved the world like Judas Iscariot and people like Tom and people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever loving the darkness hating the Light by self-will choosing to believe in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (civic 3:16)		For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16)

And so go your revilings against the precious Holy Word of God "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) as you illegally redefine believe as a work of man instead of the work of God again and again and again.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The First Book of Free-willians		The First Book of Timothy
Who will have all men to be saved, but God's will fails miserably with saving people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 civic 2:4)		Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:4)

And so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The Second Book of Free-willians		The Second Book of Peter
The Lord breaks his promise because he is patient with you people like Nancy of the world who will never be a part of the Body of Christ, not wishing that any should perish but people like Nancy perish without ever coming to repentance. (2 civic 3:9)		The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)

And so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

Notice the phrase "the whole world" occurs twice in the same book with the same author, the First Book of John inspired by the glorious Holy Spirit.

You brought up 1 John 2:2 which shall be examined in a moment, and the other location is "We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one" (1 John 5:19).

The Apostle John further wrote "you have overcome the evil one" (1 John 2:13), and John uses the "you" to refer to Christians exclusively; therefore, no Christian lies in the evil one, so current Christians are excluded from "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The First Book of Free-willians		The First Book of John
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of people like Nancy of the whole world who lie in the power of the evil one, even until they stop breathing, Christ's atoning sacrifice fails for ones such as people like Nancy. (1 civic 2:2)		He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2)

So "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 includes exclusively the people that will believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent before those people die, so "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 has a different meaning than "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19, but your heart destroys context for "the whole world", and so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

Crucially, you quoted where the Apostle declares THE LOVE OF CHRIST CONTROLS US! BEAUTIFUL CHRIST!!! But you free-willians absolve yourselves from being controlled by Christ.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The Second Book of Free-willians		The Second Book to the Corinthians
For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died and now live in Christ, including people like Nancy of the whole world who lie in the power of the evil one, even until they stop breathing (2 civic 5:14)		For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died (2 Corinthians 5:14)

And you quoted 2 Corinthians 5:14 without your recognition of "and He died for all, so that those who live would no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose on their behalf" (2 Corinthians 5:15) thus your heart destroys context for 2 Corinthians 5:14, and so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

YOUR FAILURE ATONEMENT OF THE CHRIST is confusion.

We Christians have a God of order, for it is written "God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the assemblies of the holy ones" (1 Corinthians 14:33).

Your spirit makes false statements about God and man (1 John 4:1). Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! THE LORD IS MY SALVATION!!!

 

[Johann]

continued from post #5,057



CHRIST'S FAILURE ATONEMENT is your preaching, @civic.

God causes me to visit each and every verse that you quoted.

As a reminder for you, for the definition of the word "world", you hold a death grip on "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ".

According to your Free-willian Philosophy, the following represents fleshly people, dead in sin, ungodly multitude, unbelievers:

• if Tom of the world chooses to believe in Christ before he dies, then God must profit Tom with eternal life being saved from the wrath of God.
• if Nancy of the world chooses to believe not in Christ right until her dying thoughts, then God must punish Nancy with eternal damnation being under the wrath of God.
• The conclusion: Christ succeeded in saving Tom of the world, and Christ failed in saving Nancy of the world.

So, you free-willians believe in failure atonement.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The Book of Free-willians		Holy Scripture
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who fails to take away the sin of the world! (civic 1:29)		The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! (John 1:29)
But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he ineffectively suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might ineffectually taste death for everyone like Judas Iscariot and people like Tom and people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God. (civic 2:9)		But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. (Hebrews 2:9)
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, even people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God but they enjoy salvation but they suffer punishment but they enjoy salvation-punishment (civic 2:11)		For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, (Titus 2:11)
But when the kindness and the love of mankind which includes God-displeasing sin-immersed self-willed under the wrath of God people like Nancy of God our Savior appeared (civic 3:4)		But when the kindness and the love of mankind of God our Savior appeared (Titus 3:4)

And so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

Lord Jesus says "men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their works were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light" (John 3:19-20) in the immediately same conversation as John 3:16!

Your adulteration of the Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The word of civic		The Word of God
For God so loved the world like Judas Iscariot and people like Tom and people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever loving the darkness hating the Light by self-will choosing to believe in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (civic 3:16)		For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16)

And so go your revilings against the precious Holy Word of God "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) as you illegally redefine believe as a work of man instead of the work of God again and again and again.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The First Book of Free-willians		The First Book of Timothy
Who will have all men to be saved, but God's will fails miserably with saving people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 civic 2:4)		Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:4)

And so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The Second Book of Free-willians		The Second Book of Peter
The Lord breaks his promise because he is patient with you people like Nancy of the world who will never be a part of the Body of Christ, not wishing that any should perish but people like Nancy perish without ever coming to repentance. (2 civic 3:9)		The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)

And so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

Notice the phrase "the whole world" occurs twice in the same book with the same author, the First Book of John inspired by the glorious Holy Spirit.

You brought up 1 John 2:2 which shall be examined in a moment, and the other location is "We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one" (1 John 5:19).

The Apostle John further wrote "you have overcome the evil one" (1 John 2:13), and John uses the "you" to refer to Christians exclusively; therefore, no Christian lies in the evil one, so current Christians are excluded from "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The First Book of Free-willians		The First Book of John
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of people like Nancy of the whole world who lie in the power of the evil one, even until they stop breathing, Christ's atoning sacrifice fails for ones such as people like Nancy. (1 civic 2:2)		He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2)

So "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 includes exclusively the people that will believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent before those people die, so "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 has a different meaning than "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19, but your heart destroys context for "the whole world", and so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

Crucially, you quoted where the Apostle declares THE LOVE OF CHRIST CONTROLS US! BEAUTIFUL CHRIST!!! But you free-willians absolve yourselves from being controlled by Christ.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The Second Book of Free-willians		The Second Book to the Corinthians
For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died and now live in Christ, including people like Nancy of the whole world who lie in the power of the evil one, even until they stop breathing (2 civic 5:14)		For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died (2 Corinthians 5:14)

And you quoted 2 Corinthians 5:14 without your recognition of "and He died for all, so that those who live would no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose on their behalf" (2 Corinthians 5:15) thus your heart destroys context for 2 Corinthians 5:14, and so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

YOUR FAILURE ATONEMENT OF THE CHRIST is confusion.

We Christians have a God of order, for it is written "God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the assemblies of the holy ones" (1 Corinthians 14:33).

Your spirit makes false statements about God and man (1 John 4:1). Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! THE LORD IS MY SALVATION!!!

Word of caution, @Kermos-always respond thoughtfully rather than react emotionally. This way, you’ll stay in control of the conversation. You know I hold to free will.

God bless!

J.

 

[civic]

continued from post #5,057



CHRIST'S FAILURE ATONEMENT is your preaching, @civic.

God causes me to visit each and every verse that you quoted.

As a reminder for you, for the definition of the word "world", you hold a death grip on "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ".

According to your Free-willian Philosophy, the following represents fleshly people, dead in sin, ungodly multitude, unbelievers:

• if Tom of the world chooses to believe in Christ before he dies, then God must profit Tom with eternal life being saved from the wrath of God.
• if Nancy of the world chooses to believe not in Christ right until her dying thoughts, then God must punish Nancy with eternal damnation being under the wrath of God.
• The conclusion: Christ succeeded in saving Tom of the world, and Christ failed in saving Nancy of the world.

So, you free-willians believe in failure atonement.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The Book of Free-willians		Holy Scripture
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who fails to take away the sin of the world! (civic 1:29)		The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! (John 1:29)
But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he ineffectively suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might ineffectually taste death for everyone like Judas Iscariot and people like Tom and people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God. (civic 2:9)		But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. (Hebrews 2:9)
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, even people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God but they enjoy salvation but they suffer punishment but they enjoy salvation-punishment (civic 2:11)		For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, (Titus 2:11)
But when the kindness and the love of mankind which includes God-displeasing sin-immersed self-willed under the wrath of God people like Nancy of God our Savior appeared (civic 3:4)		But when the kindness and the love of mankind of God our Savior appeared (Titus 3:4)

And so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

Lord Jesus says "men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their works were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light" (John 3:19-20) in the immediately same conversation as John 3:16!

Your adulteration of the Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The word of civic		The Word of God
For God so loved the world like Judas Iscariot and people like Tom and people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever loving the darkness hating the Light by self-will choosing to believe in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (civic 3:16)		For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16)

And so go your revilings against the precious Holy Word of God "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) as you illegally redefine believe as a work of man instead of the work of God again and again and again.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The First Book of Free-willians		The First Book of Timothy
Who will have all men to be saved, but God's will fails miserably with saving people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 civic 2:4)		Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:4)

And so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The Second Book of Free-willians		The Second Book of Peter
The Lord breaks his promise because he is patient with you people like Nancy of the world who will never be a part of the Body of Christ, not wishing that any should perish but people like Nancy perish without ever coming to repentance. (2 civic 3:9)		The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)

And so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

Notice the phrase "the whole world" occurs twice in the same book with the same author, the First Book of John inspired by the glorious Holy Spirit.

You brought up 1 John 2:2 which shall be examined in a moment, and the other location is "We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one" (1 John 5:19).

The Apostle John further wrote "you have overcome the evil one" (1 John 2:13), and John uses the "you" to refer to Christians exclusively; therefore, no Christian lies in the evil one, so current Christians are excluded from "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The First Book of Free-willians		The First Book of John
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of people like Nancy of the whole world who lie in the power of the evil one, even until they stop breathing, Christ's atoning sacrifice fails for ones such as people like Nancy. (1 civic 2:2)		He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2)

So "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 includes exclusively the people that will believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent before those people die, so "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 has a different meaning than "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19, but your heart destroys context for "the whole world", and so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

Crucially, you quoted where the Apostle declares THE LOVE OF CHRIST CONTROLS US! BEAUTIFUL CHRIST!!! But you free-willians absolve yourselves from being controlled by Christ.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The Second Book of Free-willians		The Second Book to the Corinthians
For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died and now live in Christ, including people like Nancy of the whole world who lie in the power of the evil one, even until they stop breathing (2 civic 5:14)		For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died (2 Corinthians 5:14)

And you quoted 2 Corinthians 5:14 without your recognition of "and He died for all, so that those who live would no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose on their behalf" (2 Corinthians 5:15) thus your heart destroys context for 2 Corinthians 5:14, and so go your adulterations of the precious Holy Scripture again and again and again.

YOUR FAILURE ATONEMENT OF THE CHRIST is confusion.

We Christians have a God of order, for it is written "God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the assemblies of the holy ones" (1 Corinthians 14:33).

Your spirit makes false statements about God and man (1 John 4:1). Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! THE LORD IS MY SALVATION!!!

The atonement is applied by faith. no faith no salvation via the atonement of Christ.

next fallacy

you like the pharisees make void the word of God by your traditions.


Romans 3:25
God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished. NIV

Romans 3:25
whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. ESV

The Atonement is received by faith. The offering of the Atonement for sin cannot be obtained apart from faith. The atonement for sin has been made and it cannot be applied to mankind apart from faith. Jesus has made an atonement for sin but it produces no reconciliation, no pardon from sin, no remission of sin unless is accepted or received by faith.

One must apply the atonement by faith and judgement for sin will be passed over, Passover

Ex 12- “On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals, and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the Lord. 13 The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are, and when I see the blood, I will pass over you. No destructive plague will touch you when I strike Egypt.

Romans 5:9
Therefore, since we have now been justified by His blood, how much more shall we be saved from wrath through Him!

hope this helps !!!