Simply projection
An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
Nope, simply truth telling
By God’s grace for God's glory, I proclaim Christ's proclaimed theology, so you oppose Christ's theology as shown in the following. You call Christ's sayings "Reformed" because God causes me to proclaim Christ's proclaimed theology, see the following.
“The one practicing the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21).
Christ reveals that the love of Christ controls us believers (2 Corinthians 5:14), but your spirit declares that you control Christ with your purported choosing to believe in Christ which forces Christ to save you.
You preach that "apart from Christ, I chose Christ", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), so you teach falsehood (2 Peter 2:1; 2 Peter 2:9-10).
We Christians are in Christ exclusively because of the work of Christ, but you deny this fact (see 2 Peter 2:1 and John 3:3 and John 3:21 and John 15:5 and John 15:16, John 15:19, and John 6:29).
Behold, you show no repentance nor apology for your antagonistic slur you directed at God's Holy Spirit for God has me proclaiming the Good Message of Christ according to Christ, so you believe that the Christ's "doctrine is blatantly harsh, and is no gospel at all" (proof post #3,644).
Again, go back and read the plentifully loving sayings of the Christ of us Christians in the post to which you replied (direct link to post #3,630)!
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE FATHER, SPIRIT, AND SON!!!
civic
Well-known member
Revelation 12:10
Nope, projecting
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Please quote me saying this!
1) Does the love of Christ control you when you sin?
2) Who established the requirement to believe so that we may not perish?
3) Quote me saying that we force Christ to do anything. (Don’t worry, I’m not holding my breath!)
Quotation please…
Well at least you got something right; I haven’t repented or apologized for anything, nor can I, for I haven’t done these things. I did say that the true teaching of Reformed theology, which you seem to espouse, is “blatantly harsh, and is no gospel at all”, and unabashedly confirm that I have by repeating it again! But that is no “antagonistic slur”; it is just the truth and it is why most in your camp, in my experience of years of debating Calvinists (including @civic for many years), soft pedal there presentation of the gospel instead of just saying what you truly teach!
When are you going to abandon the cult-like practice of repeating verbatim your argument and debate like a real thinking individual instead of this rote, static repertoire of paragraphs to which you appear to be tethered, as if it is an umbilical cord necessary for your very life?
Doug
civic
Well-known member
Amen brother
Same mindless repetition seen over and over while rebuttal is ignored
John 15:5 is addressed to believers not unbelievers and it concerns bearing fruit
John 3:3 see here is equivalent to entering or experiencing not observing
John 15:16 choice of the apostles
John 6:29 you still call Christ a liar
John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”
It's not scripture you get your doctrine from
I am a Christian because I believe in the One True God who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, so your heart insults the One True God! I believe Christ of as Christians who says:
The One True God, the gracious Benefactor of us Christians, exclusively produces
- divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19)
AND, Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Ephesians “Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love” (Ephesians 1:3-4)
SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God - beneficiaries’ faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says (see also a word about belief/faith (Greek πίστις pistis) and believe (Greek πιστεύω pisteuó))
“This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29)
AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for Paul wrote to the Ephesians “by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work” (Ephesians 2:8-10)
AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for Peter declared “God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith” (Acts 15:8-9)
SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God - beneficiaries’ fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, for the Christ of us Christians says
“he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21)
AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Philippians “being filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God” (Philippians 1:11)
SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is exclusively by/of/through God - beneficiaries’ birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) as well as “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit” (John 3:5-8)
AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to persons residing as aliens “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is exclusively by/of/through God - beneficiaries’ repent by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
“I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25)
AND the apostles and elders are in accord with Jesus’ words with thier saying, “Well then, God has given to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life” (Acts 11:18)
SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in Matthew 11:25 state that God exclusively causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward) - beneficiaries’ love by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34)
AND John is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God” (1 John 4:7, see the phrase “love is from God” meaning God is the source of true love)
AND John expands with his writing of “God is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in him” (1 John 4:16, see the phrase “one who abides in Love” is equivocated with “one who abides” “in God” which extends from God’s exclusivity with “God is Love”)
SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God
No Word of God you cite states man was imparted a free-will to choose toward God, but the above Word of God clearly states man does not choose God to any degree!
And here we have the Truth (John 14:6), the love of Christ controls us believers (2 Corinthians 5:14)!
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE ONE TRUE GOD!!!
That last paragraph Doug is rather
Same mindless repetition? That's ironic coming from the dodger
Consider the source. A Open Theist Pelagian
Excuse me for a moment while I go look up open theist.
civic
Well-known member
The opposite of you,a fatalist , determinist , Calvinist.
Your heart destroys the correlation established by Lord Jesus between the specific group of people bitten and looking at "the serpent in the wilderness" (Numbers 21:8-9, John 3:14-16) and the specific group of people He called the "world" (Numbers 21:8-9, John 3:14-16).
Jesus specifies God's chosen people (John 3:14-16); therefore, God sent Jesus to save God's chosen people - also known as the "world" (John 3:17). God's love is immeasurable, praise the Lord!
You believe the specific group of Numbers 21:8/John 3:16 becomes a non-specific group in John 3:16, so you believe anti-truth.
You already declared that your own interpretation is not in Holy Scripture, and nothing has changed, just see the below. Your own interpretation looks worse and worse because the Holy Spirit's revelation is solid (2 Peter 1:20-21).
Exactly!!! All your prophecy amounts to TomL 2:11 (your adulteration of Titus 2:11), TomL 3:2-21 (your adulteration of John 3:2-21), 1 TomL 2:2 (your adulteration of 1 John 2:2), and TomL 1:29 (your adulteration of John 1:29), and "there are no such scriptures", so your prophecy is false. You void your own thoughts!
In Truth (John 14:6), you mention 1 John 2:2, and God had me mention 1 John 2:2 with specific identification of your adulteration to 1 John 2:2. I could go on about other verses like this, but this is enough to establish matters.
The One True God, Lord Jesus Christ, has caused me to prove your failure atonement of Christ, and you have failed to demonstrate the contrary.
It is written "do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1), so your spirit can be tested according to your prophecy, so let's move forward with examining your writings that are your prophecy.
Before Christ made atonement on the cross bringing salvation to "all men", Lord Jesus identified Judas Iscariot as "the son of destruction" who is an exception from Christ's atonement with "I guarded them, and none of them has perished, except the son of destruction" (John 17:12); therefore, Judas Iscariot is not a part of "all men" as recorded in Titus 2:11.
Your preach that Judas Iscariot is included in "all men", so your prophecy adulterates the Holy Scripture into the traditions of men:
| The traditions of men | Holy Scripture | |
| For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men including Judas Iscariot of the world who is eternally under the wrath of God (TomL 2:11) | For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, (Titus 2:11) |
Before Christ made atonement for the sin of "the world", Lord Jesus identified Judas Iscariot as "the son of destruction" who is an exception from Christ's atonement with "I guarded them, and none of them has perished, except the son of destruction" (John 17:12); therefore, Judas Iscariot is not a part of "the world" as recorded in John 3:16.
You quoted John 3:14-18 out of it's greater context of John 3:2-21, so God has me not only restore the greater context but show your adulterations underlined for ease of reading.
Your heart puts Judas Iscariot into "the world" and your heart puts believing (John 3:9-21) before being born of God (John 3:2-8), so your adulteration is reflected in the word of TomL:
| The word of TomL | The Word of God | |
| 2(9) Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 3(10) Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 4(11) Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 5(12) If I told you earthly things and you do not cause yourself to believe, how will you cause yourself to believe if I tell you heavenly things? 6(13) No one has ascended into heaven except men who judge right in their own initiative to believe in Me and He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 7(14) As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness for the world including people outside of Israel, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 8(15) so that whoever is unborn of God choosing to believe will have [/u]born his dead self into[/u] eternal life. 9(16) For God so loved the world including Judas Iscariot, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever, loving darkness instead of the Light, wroughts to believe by himself in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 10(17) For God did not send the Son into the world including Judas Iscariot to judge the world including Judas Iscariot, but to save the world including Judas Iscariot who I fail to save from the wrath of God through Him. 11(18) He who forced God to cause himself to be born again because of his self-willed believing in Him is not judged; he who does not choose to believe has been judged already, because he has not chosen to believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 12(19) This is the judgment, that the Light has come into Judas Iscariot and the world and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their works were evil. 13(20) For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his works will be exposed. 14(21) 15(2) this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” 16(3) Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one who is not born again he can see the kingdom of God.” 17(4) Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 18(5) Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one who is born of water and the Spirit he can enter into the kingdom of God. 19(6) That which is born of the flesh is flesh and this evil flesh profits the flesh and this evil flesh pleases God, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit of no significance. 20(7) Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 21(8) The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do know exactly where it comes from and exactly where it is going because your choosing of Me controls your becoming born of the Spirit; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” (TomL 3:2-21 (no longer the Word of God)) | 2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” 9 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but to save the world through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his works will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God.” (John 3:2-21) |
So, your spirit prophecies a very different message than the marvelous Holy Spirit inspired Word of God sayings. For important detail, please see post #2,121.
For similar reasons, Judas is not a part of "the whole world" in John the Apostle's word. Your word is wrong side while the Apostle's word is right side:
| Wrong Side | Right Side | |
| He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world including Judas Iscariot the son of destruction, so Christ's atoning sacrifice fails for Judas Iscariot. (1 TomL 2:2) | He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2) |
For similar reasons, Judas Iscariot is not part of "the world" in John the Baptist's saying. Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The Book of Free-willians | The Book of John | |
| The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who fails to take away the sin of the world including Judas Iscariot! (TomL 1:29) | The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! (John 1:29) |
Since you believe Judas Iscariot is included in Christ's atonement, then you believe that Christ's atonement leads to destruction because Judas Iscariot is "the son of destruction".
Judas Iscariot is not included in Christ's atonement because Judas was "the son of destruction" before the crucifixion.
You preach a failure atonement for Christ.
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE JESUS' HOLY NAME!!!
As with the house of Eli. There is no atonement for their sin. 1 Samuel 3:14
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Correct! And the Sovereign God has established that all who believe have eternal life and all who don’t believe are condemned. He does not say “all who are not given belief” are condemned, but those who don’t believe, those who don’t do what they can and should do when confronted by the gospel!
God’s sovereignty cannot be overridden or overthrown by your mistaken attempts to alter the plan of God’s graciousness toward mankind.
Doug
civic
Well-known member
Chilling!
In their hearts, they trample the Word of God - the Son of God, and they say Christ's Blood performs a different purpose than the Lord’s declared purpose.
How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
(Hebrews 10:29-31)
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!!!
Sorry there is nothing about the chosen people in John 3:14-18
John 3:14–18 (NASB 2020) — 14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes will have eternal life in Him. 16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. 18 The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
The Holy Spirit inspired the word world, not the chosen people of your gnostic Manichean doctrine
You have twisted and abused scripture
You really are laughable
The dodger here is you as you ignore text after text and divert
i
