Admittedly starting late in this, just wanted to interject a differing translation that brings a new meaning to Titus 2:11.
Titus 2:11 PESHITTA ~ 11For the all saving grace of God has been revealed to all men;
So Judas did have God's saving grace revealed to him. The question is... Was it his free will that had him greedily turn Jesus over... OR
was he actually preselected by God, the father , to be the one to fulfill not only prophecy but God's plan from the beginning?
Two things: was it revealed to Judas with a salvific purpose in mind?
How do you account for the .millions who die never having heard the gospel of Jesus Christ?
I do not think it was revealed to Judas at all. We know Jesus chose him. I believe Jesus chose Judas because Judas was “a devil” (John 6:70–71), “a thief” (John 12:6), an unbeliever (John 6:64), and spiritually unclean (John 13:10), but was needed to betray him at the right time.... yet he was given a respected position within the group (John 13:29). It was all part of the initial plan.
As to question 2. I have absolutely no conclusions on that. From time to time I read others suggestion but no one seems to really offer anything other then guess work.
Fair enough. Good post
I am asking for clarification about Judas Iscariot from you, MTMattie, respecting Titus 2:11. You brought up what appears to be a translation from Koine Greek to Classical Syriac (Aramaic), that is, the Greek Titus 2:11 translated to the Peshitta Titus 2:11. The content of each indicates that the Peshitta is a faulty translation of Titus 2:11.
In your first post above in response to post #3,271, you elaborated "Judas did have God's saving grace revealed to him" regarding Judas Iscariot and Titus 2:11.
In your second post above to Presby02, you elaborated "I do not think it was revealed to Judas at all" regarding Judas Iscariot and Titus 2:11.
Since you believe that "Judas did have God's saving grace revealed to him" and you believe "I do not think it was revealed to Judas at all", then will you please clarify the contradiction and the purpose of your posts?
Let’s review the context under discussion.
Sorry but you simply repeat falsehoods
Where have you addressed this
Sorry that is a total non sequitur
You quote john 15:5
John 15 (KJV 1900) — 1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
But that concerns the bearing of fruit in those who already in him
so context does not support you
further you contradict the very words of Christ
John 6:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
and what Christ gives is eternal life not the work he tells them to do.
So you twist that verse as well
as well as deny other scripture
Joshua 24:15–31 (NASB 2020) — 15 But if it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served, which were beyond the Euphrates River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.” 16 The people answered and said, “Far be it from us that we would abandon the LORD to serve other gods; 17 for the LORD our God is He who brought us and our fathers up out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slaves, and did these great signs in our sight and watched over us through all the way in which we went and among all the peoples through whose midst we passed. 18 The LORD drove out from before us all the peoples, even the Amorites who lived in the land. We also will serve the LORD, for He is our God.” 19 Then Joshua said to the people, “You will not be able to serve the LORD, for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your wrongdoing or your sins. 20 If you abandon the LORD and serve foreign gods, then He will turn and do you harm and destroy you after He has done good to you.” 21 And the people said to Joshua, “No, but we will serve the LORD.” 22 So Joshua said to the people, “You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves the LORD, to serve Him.” And they said, “We are witnesses.” 23 “Now then, do away with the foreign gods which are in your midst, and incline your hearts to the LORD, the God of Israel.” 24 And the people said to Joshua, “We will serve the LORD our God and obey His voice.” 25 So Joshua made a covenant with the people that day, and made for them a statute and an ordinance in Shechem. 26 And Joshua wrote these words in the Book of the Law of God; and he took a large stone and set it up there under the oak that was by the sanctuary of the LORD. 27 Then Joshua said to all the people, “Behold, this stone shall be a witness against us, because it has heard all the words of the LORD which He spoke to us; so it shall be a witness against you, so that you do not deny your God.” 28 Then Joshua dismissed the people, each to his inheritance. 29 Now it came about after these things that Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of the LORD, died, being 110 years old. 30 And they buried him in the territory of his inheritance, in Timnath-serah, which is in the hill country of Ephraim, on the north of Mount Gaash. 31 Israel served the LORD all the days of Joshua and all the days of the elders who survived Joshua, and had known every deed of the LORD which He had done for Israel.
Why does your theology cause you to deny the word of God and simply repeat falsehoods
If your theology were true, then you would have been able to refute the following, but you didn't, and you can't refute the Word of God.
“The one practicing the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21)
You preach that "apart from Christ, I chose Christ", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation), so you teach falsehood (2 Peter 2:1; 2 Peter 2:9-10).
We Christians are in Christ exclusively because of the work of Christ, but you deny this fact (see 2 Peter 2:1 and John 3:3 and John 3:21 and John 15:5 and John 15:16 and John 15:19).
Where do you deal with the fact you make Christ a liar
John 6:27 (ESV) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.”
Jesus told his hearers they had something to do
You say there is nothing to do.
I would say Jesus tells the truth.
You not so much
Let me know when you are ready to take the word of Christ seriously and throw away your gnostic inspired doctrines
d
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You are blind because you broke the labeled link between continuous precursor post (see the "continued from post #3,261" in the "Kermos said" quotation inside your post), and God causes me to build upon the labeled integrated posts right now!
Since Lord Jesus says "which the Son of Man will give to you" (John 6:27) as a requirement, then no one can work "for the food that endures to eternal life" unless such a one receives from God Himself "the food that endures to eternal life" (John 6:27), so this precious food is given by God to God's chosen persons.
Your writing of "Jesus told his hearers they had something to do You say there is nothing to do." regarding John 6:27 results in "the fact you make Christ a liar" when the Christ of us Christians says "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) as well as this lovingly wonderful Word of God “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21) as quoted to you in post #3,261, so the Word of God shows your deception about you driving God according to your choosing - even before you were born of the flesh.
That is not the only time your heart positions Christ as a liar, but you label Christ a deceiver as presented below based on your free-willian philosophy writings revealing your heart's gnostic (knowledge) human centered purported ability to perceive God before your eyes have been opened by God as per God in "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3).
Your heart's treasure is that when Jesus Christ says God, He does not mean God, but, rather, He means man in at least one specific instance as we shall see below.
You preach your [Edit] Jesus [Edit] , on the other hand, God causes me to proclaim Lord Jesus Who is the Master Orator with no equal.
You believe that your idiot Jesus is incapable of formulating a coherent sentence with the words that convey His intended meaning; on the other hand, I believe Jesus says what he means with precision, unambigatuity, and Truth (John 14:6).
You exalt your god Calvin above the One True God because you utilize your god Calvin's words "People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us" as your authority to suppress, eliminate, and adulterate the meaning of the Word of God:
The traditions of men | The Word of God | |
This is the work of man, that you believe in Him whom He has sent (TomL 6:29) | This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29) |
Your adulterations to the word of God extend even farther:
The traditions of men | The Word of God | |
I chose Jesus, but Jesus didn't choose me (TomL 15:16) | you did not choose Me, but I chose you (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16) | |
I chose exclusively you apostles and nobody else out of the world (TomL 15:19) | I chose you out of the world (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19) |
You have refused to present a public apology response for your application of the nauseous concept to the precious Holy Word of God!
Seems that is all Kermos hasRepeat ad nasaeum
The following Word of God is that which the both of you call nauseous! No Christian calls the Word of God nauseating.
The gracious Benefactor of us Christians exclusively produces
- divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19)
AND, Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Ephesians “Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love” (Ephesians 1:3-4)
SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God - beneficiaries’ faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says (see also a word about belief/faith (Greek πίστις pistis) and believe (Greek πιστεύω pisteuó))
“This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29)
AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for Paul wrote to the Ephesians “by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work” (Ephesians 2:8-10)
AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for Peter declared “God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith” (Acts 15:8-9)
SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God - beneficiaries’ fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, for the Christ of us Christians says
“he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21)
AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Philippians “being filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God” (Philippians 1:11)
SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is exclusively by/of/through God - beneficiaries’ birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) as well as “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit” (John 3:5-8)
AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to persons residing as aliens “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is exclusively by/of/through God - beneficiaries’ repent by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
“I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25)
AND the apostles and elders are in accord with Jesus’ words with thier saying, “Well then, God has given to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life” (Acts 11:18)
SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in Matthew 11:25 state that God exclusively causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward) - beneficiaries’ love by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34)
AND John is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God” (1 John 4:7, see the phrase “love is from God” meaning God is the source of true love)
AND John expands with his writing of “God is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in him” (1 John 4:16, see the phrase “one who abides in Love” is equivocated with “one who abides” “in God” which extends from God’s exclusivity with “God is Love”)
SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God
And here we have the Truth (John 14:6), the love of Christ controls us believers (2 Corinthians 5:14)!
No Word of God you cite states man was imparted a free-will to choose toward God, but here is the Word of God which clearly states man does not choose God to any degree!
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE REVEALER OF TRUTH, LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!
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