An Article on free will

[Eternally-Grateful]

I believe with all my heart that with family, and even some young friends sharing their church experiences and my church that
when I took my confirmation classes and became a member in the church I knew without shadow of a doubt about Jesus and what He had done on the cross for our sins . I had had to be in a church service with others from the class and we swore to what our beliefs were.

I will not say I drew myself to God. Anymore then I felt God was drawing me to Him.

That does not mean God did not draw you to him.

I did not feel it either, but the word says he literally drags us to him

John 6: 43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

the word draw there is helkyse it means to draw, to haul, to drag

this is what God does. its not like the Calvinist that says God just regenerated us. he drags us. so we can see him, anmd thus be forced to make a decision.

It was that I wanted to be part of the church because at the time I actually felt that was a safety net. (I was about 12) (And I had heard of hell fire and damnation preaching's from other family... and I knew, based on their teachings on Jesus this was right.

to me, this is God drawing you to himself.

That came about with too much televangelist types from the 700 Club to the stand alone televangelists and even Billy Graham
to attending a revival and then my mom and I in my early 20s started to attend a monthly Christian Woman's Club luncheon where there were the obligatory testimonies followed but a group sinners prayer.


For me that would have been an impossibility for from the moment I could understand anything bedtime prayers were done. (Still are) so I cannot answer your question.

Maybe you did?

Which I did and do believe. My faith is strong.

AMEN,, God is a good God and worthy of our faith

That is not a simple question to answer. I could say possibly all of the above.

You ask " did they randomly of their own power just decide to trust someone they did not know"

the answer would be no. No one does this for anyone.. they may go in and test this person by doing what they want, but it takes awhile for the person to earn your trust.

Is that not how all the cultish religions who have worshipped those golden calves came to do so?

No. their faith was always in the calf.. They tried to follow this God.. but in the end, they always returned to their vomit

For myself, as a child, I trusted God before learning a thing about Him and Jesus because it was important in the family.

But there are beliefs all over the place, even here, and that is why I started to ask questions.

faith of a mustard seed

Thank you for answering.

You answers, to me, make a certain amount of sense. Why? Because you accept free will unlike others .

Thank you again.

Be blessed.

anytime, You also be blessed

 

[Jim]

the argument was that Abraham was not saved by works of the law..Not just any work period.

lets try to stick to the disussion.. we may not be confused.

romans 4: What then shall we say that Abraham our fathe has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

the argument is these works in context are works of the law. Not just any work. so it does not contradict James, who said abraham was Justified by works.
But works of the law can not be understood here. because the law was not yet given.
What works are in context here?
Everything Abraham did after he believed..
also please note. Paul also says we are saved by this same faith
21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. 22 And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

This is the kind of faith that saves. Abraham was fully convinced. Are we fully convinced of Gods promise concerning salvation?


23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.

Again, it can't be works of the law that was in context.. so it can not be works of the law in context today.

mixing grace and works concerning salvation is like mixing oil and water. they do not mix.. its one or the other

The bible says that Abraham believed God and it (believing God) was counted to him as righteousness. The bible also says that Jesus declared that believing in Him is work.

So yes, you are confused.

 

[Kermos]

How much fruit of the Spirit does it take to indicate that one is truly in Christ?

Jim, I am not going to jump subjects with you, at this time. Instead let's resume the previous conversation that you discourteously left behind.

@Kermos, your soteriology assigns to God such strikingly absurd character traits as to be offensive to any believer. It makes God the author, reason and cause of all, and I mean all, of what is wrong in the world. It is a real shame.

Whoops, you lied with "offensive to any believer" because God granted me agreement from others in this very thread.

Now, you convey God is evil to save even one person:

​

18 He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.​

​

19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” 20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? 21Or does not the Potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory​

(Romans 9:18-23)​

​

So, faithful, glorious, and graceful Lord and God Jesus Christ fills us vessels of mercy with God's works of mercy which God prepared beforehand for glory!

Paul declares God's Sovereign control of man with "He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires" (Romans 9:18).

Immediately after writing that God is in control, Paul continued with "You will say to me then, 'Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?'" (Romans 9:19) - herein resides your wrongly assigning man's accountability for sin to God - the fault question.

Romans 9:18 segues right into Romans 9:19-23.

Bringing these together:

Paul conveyed "God is in control" (Romans 9:18) then the "you" defiantly mocks God's control with "Why does He still find fault since your soteriology assigns to God such strikingly absurd character traits as to be offensive to any believer? For who resists His will?" (the book of Second Opinions 9:19).

The "you" in Romans 9:19-20 is the person who rejects God by way of rejecting God's exclusive control of man's salvation; in other words, the "you" is the person that claims man has a free will.

Do not forget that it is written that no purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2), so scripture reveals that man cannot resist God's will, and Paul knows scripture.

Notice the "you" questioning why God still finds fault. Paul conveys that the "you" asks the fault question in a mocking manner, and the subsequent question about God's will continues with the "you" mocking God who is entirely in control of man's salvation according to Paul (Ephesians 2:8-10 for example).

The "you" is certainly mocking because immediately after the question about God's will, Paul wrote:

​

On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? (Romans 9:20)​

​

See the "On the contrary" which is indicative that the following statement of Paul refutes the mocking questions of the "you" about the fault question and the question about God's will (in Romans 9:19).

Paul continues immediately after "On the contrary" in Romans 9:20 showing that the thing molded cannot resist the will of the Molder.

The thing molded represents the "you".

The Molder represents God.

IN TRUTH, PAUL CONVEYS THAT MAN CANNOT RESIST GOD'S WILL (ROMANS 9:19-20)!

Behold the parallel of the defiant "you" as adversary against God (in Romans 9:19-20) to free-willians based upon the content of free-willian philosophical writings - look at your post, Jim.

My brother Paul wrote "it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy" (Romans 9:16).

Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE LORD JESUS, MY SAVIOR, FOREVER!!!

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

The bible says that Abraham believed God and it (believing God) was counted to him as righteousness. The bible also says that Jesus declared that believing in Him is work.

So yes, you are confused.

so let me get this straight

I am talking about not of works. lest anyone should boast.

someone says no, that means work of the law

I say there was no law when abraham believed.

You cam into the argument and said there was a law

I showed there was no mosaic law. and how Abraham was saved by faith apart from any works period

and now you changed the whole subject by agreeing with what I have been saying all along.

and then twist it and say faith is a work.

yes it is a work, amen

John 6:
28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

showing again it is Gods work. not your work and not my work.

and you say I am confused?

Look in a mirror

 

[Jim]

Jim, I am not going to jump subjects with you, at this time. Instead let's resume the previous conversation that you discourteously left behind.



Whoops, you lied with "offensive to any believer" because God granted me agreement from others in this very thread.

Now, you convey God is evil to save even one person:

​

18 He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.​

​

19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” 20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? 21Or does not the Potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory​

(Romans 9:18-23)​

​

So, faithful, glorious, and graceful Lord and God Jesus Christ fills us vessels of mercy with God's works of mercy which God prepared beforehand for glory!

Paul declares God's Sovereign control of man with "He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires" (Romans 9:18).

Immediately after writing that God is in control, Paul continued with "You will say to me then, 'Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?'" (Romans 9:19) - herein resides your wrongly assigning man's accountability for sin to God - the fault question.

Romans 9:18 segues right into Romans 9:19-23.

Bringing these together:

Paul conveyed "God is in control" (Romans 9:18) then the "you" defiantly mocks God's control with "Why does He still find fault since your soteriology assigns to God such strikingly absurd character traits as to be offensive to any believer? For who resists His will?" (the book of Second Opinions 9:19).

The "you" in Romans 9:19-20 is the person who rejects God by way of rejecting God's exclusive control of man's salvation; in other words, the "you" is the person that claims man has a free will.

Do not forget that it is written that no purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2), so scripture reveals that man cannot resist God's will, and Paul knows scripture.

Notice the "you" questioning why God still finds fault. Paul conveys that the "you" asks the fault question in a mocking manner, and the subsequent question about God's will continues with the "you" mocking God who is entirely in control of man's salvation according to Paul (Ephesians 2:8-10 for example).

The "you" is certainly mocking because immediately after the question about God's will, Paul wrote:

​

On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? (Romans 9:20)​

​

See the "On the contrary" which is indicative that the following statement of Paul refutes the mocking questions of the "you" about the fault question and the question about God's will (in Romans 9:19).

Paul continues immediately after "On the contrary" in Romans 9:20 showing that the thing molded cannot resist the will of the Molder.

The thing molded represents the "you".

The Molder represents God.

IN TRUTH, PAUL CONVEYS THAT MAN CANNOT RESIST GOD'S WILL (ROMANS 9:19-20)!

Behold the parallel of the defiant "you" as adversary against God (in Romans 9:19-20) to free-willians based upon the content of free-willian philosophical writings - look at your post, Jim.

My brother Paul wrote "it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy" (Romans 9:16).

Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE LORD JESUS, MY SAVIOR, FOREVER!!!

Well I guess all I can say is that your understanding of Romans 9 is about as screwed up as your understanding of so much of the rest of the Bible. Your view of such things is apparently that God created this world mostly to condemn humans to hell. But of course in your pride, arrogance and narcissism, you think that doesn't include you.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

God did not create evil.

He gave us free will. introducing the possibility we may sin.

he did not remove that free will

 

[Jim]

I say there was no law when abraham believed.

God said, "sin is not counted where there is no law"(Rom 5:13). If sin was not counted against Abraham, then why did he need to be counted as righteous?

 

[synergy]

Yet the bible says I was predestined, God knew me.

Predestination (conformity to the image of Christ) commences only when one believes, not before.

Really? I hear it all the time

Only a lunatic would think that he regenerates himself by himself. So stop with the strawmen.

Of course justification is not there. Because it not about justification.
I am justified through faith by grace period. not of works lest anyone should boast.

You continue to disbelieve John 2:24:
(James 2:24) You see then how a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Paul rejects this notion.

The only thing that Paul rejects is works of the faith and so does James. Read Rom 3:28.

(Rom 3:28) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the works of the Law.

Thus, the Bible continues to rip apart your monergistic view of James.

I am not calvinist.. Again, Stop with your false accusations.
Your not listening to a word I say. You are stuck in your ism, and unable to think clearly.

Then explain how you are not monergistic when it comes to repentance.

Yes, paul was fighting legalism.. Hence why he showed in eph 2 titus 3 and romans 4 where no work is involved period.

Is it legalistic to speak of one’s repentance? Is it legalistic to speak of the “labor of love”? “You are stuck in your ism, and unable to think clearly”. Where have I heard this sentence before?

No.

Are you seriously saying no to James 2:24?????

romans 2 is descriptive not prescriptive
those who have eternal life. DO the works of God.
Paul did not contradict himself and then 2 chapters later turn 180 degrees..

Read Rom 2:6-8 again. Those who do good work are given eternal life. Those who disobey will be given anger and wrath.

Rom 2:6 who will render to each according to his works;
Rom 2:7 indeed to those who with patience in good work are seeking for glory, and honor, and incorruptibility, everlasting life.
Rom 2:8 But to those who indeed disobeying the truth out of self-seeking, and obeying unrighteousness, will be anger and wrath,

So let's employ your way of reading English this time for Rom 2:8. That causes Rom 2:8 to be read this way: Those who are given wrath will disobey. Is that the type of messages that the Bible is worthy of? Seriously?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

God said, "sin is not counted where there is no law"(Rom 5:13). If sin was not counted against Abraham, then why did he need to be counted as righteous?

lol.. You tell me. God declaimed him righteous. Why? Was abraham saved was everyone in the OT saved?

by the way according to john 3. What condemns us?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Predestination (conformity to the image of Christ) commences only when one believes, not before.

before time began

next...

Only a lunatic would think that he saves himself by himself. So stop with the strawmen.

yet people do it all the time..from alot of people.. I have not determined yet if you do not do this yourself.. Are you a lunatic?

You continue to disbelieve John 2:24:
(James 2:24) You see then how a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

lol. You continue to ignore romans 4

4 What then shall we say that Abraham our fatherhas found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

resolve the contradiction.. I already have,

The only thing that Paul rejects is works of the faith and so does James. Read Rom 3:28.

romans 3 is speaking to people who think they are saved by the works of the law

again, Romans 4..

(Rom 3:28) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the works of the Law.

Thus, the Bible continues to rip apart your monergistic view of James.

dude, or maam whatever you are.

stop trying to put me under some doctrine.

you keep this up.; I will determine you are unteachable and move on.


James is not about eternal salvation.. The wage of sin is death. It is not my good works.

Then explain how you are not monergistic when it comes to repentance.\

I will explain what I believe I reject isms..

Is it legalistic to speak of one’s repentance? Is it legalistic to speak of the “labor of love”? “You are stuck in your ism, and unable to think clearly”. Where have I heard this sentence before?

good God you are har4d of hearing

I repented

i received Christ

I came to God in faith

so i would be calling myself a legalist.

you keep this up. you will just show your true self.. but hey, I am more than happy to expose it.

Are you seriously saying no to James 2:24?????

I am saying no TO YOUR INTERPRETATION OF JAMES 4.

I accept james 4 as written in a way it does not contradict romans 4. eph 2 and titus 3..

when your ready to do this let me know

Read Rom 2:6-8 again. Those who do good work are given eternal life. Those who disobey will be given anger and wrath.

No.. it says those who do good works have eternal life.

why are you trying to earn salvation (let me guess you believe you are not??)

Rom 2:6 who will render to each according to his works;
Rom 2:7 indeed to those who with patience in good work are seeking for glory, and honor, and incorruptibility, everlasting life.
Rom 2:8 But to those who indeed disobeying the truth out of self-seeking, and obeying unrighteousness, will be anger and wrath,

So let's employ your way of reading English this time for Rom 2:8. That causes Rom 2:8 to be read this way: Those who are given wrath will disobey. Is that the type of messages that the Bible is worthy of? Seriously?

ROMANS 4

i am done playing your childish game, I have explained James, I have explained romans 2..

Romans 4. Put up or you know the rest.

 

[synergy]

before time began
next...

So you started being conformed into the image of Christ before time began???
Boy, your imagination is off the charts.

yet people do it all the time..from alot of people.. I have not determined yet if you do not do this yourself.. Are you a lunatic?

Stop with the Ad Hominems because I can just as well ask you the same question due to your tall tales about being conformed into the image of Christ before time began.

lol. You continue to ignore romans 4

Look who's talking. You're racking up a whole pile of ignored verses like James 2:24, Rom 2:6-8, Rom 3:28, etc...

4 What then shall we say that Abraham our fatherhas found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

resolve the contradiction.. I already have,

romans 3 is speaking to people who think they are saved by the works of the law

again, Romans 4..

dude, or maam whatever you are.

stop trying to put me under some doctrine.

you keep this up.; I will determine you are unteachable and move on.

Rom 4 follows Rom 3 and they both say that nobody is saved by works of the Law. I'm perfectly in agreement with that. That custom was terminated 2,000 years ago. If you have people still practicing works of the Law around your circles then by all means alert them to Rom 3 & 4.

James is not about eternal salvation.. The wage of sin is death. It is not my good works.

How can you be possibly be saved if not justified by God (James 2:24)? It's Popcorn Time!

I will explain what I believe I reject isms..
good God you are har4d of hearing
I repented
i received Christ
I came to God in faith
so i would be calling myself a legalist.

Good to see that you stopped calling me a legalist. You discovered how futile that attempt was.

you keep this up. you will just show your true self.. but hey, I am more than happy to expose it.
I am saying no TO YOUR INTERPRETATION OF JAMES 4.
I accept james 4 as written in a way it does not contradict romans 4. eph 2 and titus 3..
when your ready to do this let me know

I just copied and pasted James 2:24 and you're saying no to it?

Here it is again:
(James 2:24) You see then how a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

No.. it says those who do good works have eternal life.

why are you trying to earn salvation (let me guess you believe you are not??)

ROMANS 4

i am done playing your childish game, I have explained James, I have explained romans 2..

Romans 4. Put up or you know the rest.

Read Rom 2:6 again. What will be rendered to each according to their works? Eternal life will be rendered to those who do good works.

Rom 2:6 who will render to each according to his works;
Rom 2:7 indeed to those who with patience in good work are seeking for glory, and honor, and incorruptibility, everlasting life.
Rom 2:8 But to those who indeed disobeying the truth out of self-seeking, and obeying unrighteousness, will be anger and wrath,

 

[Jim]

lol.. You tell me.

Because there was always law even if there was not the law of Moses.

 

[synergy]

Because there was always law even if there was not the law of Moses.

Correct. There were moral laws that were in effect. The Cain and Abel event demonstrates that.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

So you started being conformed into the image of Christ before time began???

I was predestined before time began.

29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Its not a calvinist thing.

Its the omniscience of God thing

Boy, your imagination is off the charts.

At least its not like your interpretation sklills

Stop with the Ad Hominems because I can just as well ask you the same question due to your tall tales about being conformed into the image of Christ before time began.

No, you stop

I made a claim, people do it all the time. so eother prove me wrong. or stop.

Look who's talking. You're racking up a whole pile of ignored verses like James 2:24, Rom 2:6-8, Rom 3:28, etc...

LOL. at least I discussed those verses. I did not ignore them, you just do not agree with my interpretation of them

so you stop your strawman of saying I ignore them,

for some reason. romans 4 has you running away

Rom 4 follows Rom 3 and they both say that nobody is saved by works of the Law. I'm perfectly in agreement with that. That custom was terminated 2,000 years ago. If you have people still practicing works of the Law around your circles then by all means alert them to Rom 3 & 4.

show me the law in romans 4?

there was no law in romans 4 when abraham believed God in gen 15..

How can you be possibly be saved if not justified by God (James 2:24)? It's Popcorn Time!

I was justified. BY FAITH.

Not by works, lest anyone should boast.

If it is grace it is not of works.

Keep ignoring this passage to your detriment

Good to see that you stopped calling me a legalist. You discovered how futile that attempt was.

From everythign I see. you are as much a legalist as the pharisees were. Nothing you have shown me has changed that view..

Your stuck on works as they were

I just copied and pasted James 2:24 and you're saying no to it?

I agree with james 2 in context.

I reject y9our interpretation

You have james contradicting paul

why do you legalists only thing one or two verses is all you need?

Here it is again:
(James 2:24) You see then how a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

This is not salvation.

next.

Read Rom 2:6 again. What will be rendered to each according to their works? Eternal life will be rendered to those who do good works.

Rom 2:6 who will render to each according to his works;
Rom 2:7 indeed to those who with patience in good work are seeking for glory, and honor, and incorruptibility, everlasting life.
Rom 2:8 But to those who indeed disobeying the truth out of self-seeking, and obeying unrighteousness, will be anger and wrath,

read romans 4.

4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”
16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. 22 And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.

Now you can die on your false view of james 2.

or you can live on romans 4 who appears to be written to you.

either way, Until you resolve the contradiction. your bible can not be trusted

Or

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Because there was always law even if there was not the law of Moses.

back to this

I am talking to a wall..

Good luck my friend, I would suggest you look back to our conversation and see how you were all over the place.

please not. if you are here to defeat calvinism. you are wasting your time talking to me. Because I reject calvinism..

I just refuse to do what many do and go 180 degree out and attack anything that even appears to be calvinistic.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Correct. There were moral laws that were in effect. The Cain and Abel event demonstrates that.

They were not condemned by the law

and they were not saved by doing the works of the law.

NEXT!!!!!

 

[Red Baker]

@Eternally-Grateful

It is the work of God we believe

I did not come to repentance on my own.

I did not come to faith on my own.

I did not conjure it up in myself.

John made it clear.

John 1: 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

I received Christ. because God gave me that power. I did not get it on my own. i did not will myself to heaven.

If you think you willed yourself to heaven, Well good luck boasting in self.

Then if you truly believe this as you have posted, my questions to you is this:

"On what grounds does God justifies a sinner? Based on Jesus' obedience or man's; If Jesus', does man do anything to to be saved from sin and condemnation? Where does faith come into play as far as man's salvation from sin and condemnation, a means of, or just an evidence that he has been born again?"

Your answer will tell me if you truly believe as you said above.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

@Eternally-Grateful

Then if you truly believe this as you have posted, my question to you is this:

"On what grounds does God justifies a sinner? Based on Jesus' obedience or man's, If Jesus', does man do anything to to be saved from sin and condemnation? Where does faith come into play as far as man's salvation from sin and condemnation?"

Your answer will tell me if you truly believe as you said above.

Ah,,

your fishing in the wrong direction my friend. I am not going to play your game.

I care what God thinks, not what you think

 

[synergy]

I was predestined before time began.

29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Its not a calvinist thing.

I asked you when did your conformity process start. If it was before time began then I'm going to ask for your progress reports from 13.8 Billion BC to the day you were born. If you can't provide any reports of progress then you're just blowing smoke.

Its the omniscience of God thing

At least its not like your interpretation sklills

You have difficulty reading what's actually written in James 2:24 let alone interpreting it.

Here is an eye examination test for you. Please repeat what you actually see here:
(James 2:24) You see then how a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

No, you stop
I made a claim, people do it all the time. so eother prove me wrong. or stop.
LOL. at least I discussed those verses. I did not ignore them, you just do not agree with my interpretation of them
so you stop your strawman of saying I ignore them,

I did comment about Rom 4. Did you bypass it just like you do with James 2:24, Rom 2:6-8, Rom 3:28, etc...

for some reason. romans 4 has you running away
show me the law in romans 4?
there was no law in romans 4 when abraham believed God in gen 15..

As I told you before, Rom 4 is perfectly in synch with the fact that works of the Law do not save. In fact Paul drives that point home when he says that the Mosaic Laws did not even exist in Abraham's time and he was still justified. In what way was he justified? Your favorite Apostle James answers that:

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
James 2:22 Do you see how faith worked with his works, and from the works faith was made complete?

Amazing how faith and good works are an integral part of Abraham's Justification!

I was justified. BY FAITH.

You keep failing your eye test. It's time for you to get an new pair of glasses:
(James 2:24) You see then how a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Not by works, lest anyone should boast.

Not by works of the Law.

If it is grace it is not of works.

Now you're diverting towards grace because you failed to make your case against James and his promotion of faithful good works.

Keep ignoring this passage to your detriment
From everythign I see. you are as much a legalist as the pharisees were. Nothing you have shown me has changed that view..
Your stuck on works as they were

Ad Hominems will get you nowhere. Make your case based on the Bible, which you are failing miserably to do.

I agree with james 2 in context.
I reject y9our interpretation

Each time you say you agree with James 2, I will issue out an eye test for you. Tell us what you see here:
(James 2:24) You see then how a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

You have james contradicting paul
why do you legalists only thing one or two verses is all you need?

Where is the faith plus good works contradiction between these 2 verses:
(Rom 3:28) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the works of the Law.
(James 2:24) You see then how a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

This is not salvation.
next.

Again, how can you be possibly be saved if not justified by God as per James 2:24? It's still Popcorn Time!

read romans 4.

4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”
16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. 22 And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.

Now you can die on your false view of james 2.

or you can live on romans 4 who appears to be written to you.

either way, Until you resolve the contradiction. your bible can not be trusted

Or

Again, Rom 4 is perfectly in synch with the fact that works of the Law do not save. In fact, Paul drives that point home here in Rom 4 when he says that the Mosaic Laws did not even exist in Abraham's time and yet he was still justified. In what way was Abraham justified? Your favorite Apostle James answers that:

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
James 2:22 Do you see how faith worked with his works, and from the works faith was made complete?

James nails it in perfect synchronization with Paul! James reveals how Abraham was justified by both his good works and his faith, making faith and good works both inseparable parts of Abraham's Justification!

 

[ProDeo]

Hi my brother. I believe one-third of the angels fell when they followed Lucifer when he rebelled against God. These angels aligned themselves with Lucifer and did not stay faithful to the LORD.

Isaiah 14:12-15 (NKJV) 12 “How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [How] you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations! 13 For you have said in your heart: ‘I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north; 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.’ 15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit.

Where do we find the one-third ?