Yes, and if still dead in their sins, then, by definition, they have not been regenerated.
An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
The love of my and every Christian's Lord and God Jesus Christ controls us and me (2 Corinthians 5:14), but you self-willfully (2 Peter 2:9-10) exclude yourself from this wonderful blessing in the love of Christ.
This post is also to @Eternally-Grateful, @MTMattie, and @GodsGrace because of your heartfelt agreement with Jim's post.
Commands Expose Good And Evil - Not Inherent Capability Conveyance - A Hypothetical Example
A hypothetical example, on Monday evening you take your lovely wife a hot bowl of delicious oatmeal while she's sitting on the couch, and she places the bowl on a pillow on her lap. Then your talking and toddling son sees the bowl of delicous oatmeal, and he wants some, so he shoots across the floor to the couch, and he excitedly grabs the rim of the hot bowl letting out a shrieking scream of pain from the hot bowl.
After applying soothing cream to the wound, both you and your wife explain the difference between hot and cold. You explain that hot can cause burns and pain. "Do not touch hot things" you command your son.
You continue by declaring "Your mommy and I can work around hot things to prepare and serve food, but you cannot, my love". The sobbing stops, and you all eat your dinner.
On Tuesday morning, you have the iron skillet on the stove, the gas fire keeping the iron skillet sizzling hot for a family pancake breakfast. The top of the stove radiates very HOT too, so you are sensitive to your son's current absence from the kitchen.
Your son toddles into the kitchen. You say "honey, the stove is hot, hotter than the bowl of oatmeal last night. If you touch the stove, then you'll get burned again. If you stay over there, then you'll be just fine." Then you smell that the pancake is about to burn unless you flip it, so you scrape the pancake, raise it, flip it, and you watch it drop - but as it drops, you see your precious son's hand grasp the extremely hot stove iron grill flame cover. In a flash, you dunk your excruciatingly pained and screaming child's hand in a glass of cold water, add ice, turn off the stove, examine the wound through the glass, and ...
The morals of the story:
- Monday night's command did not convey ability. The command expressed safe action - or said another way safe inaction.
- Monday night's declaration conveyed capabilities being that you could work around hot items while your son could not work around hot items. It is crucial to discern the exclusive nature of the declarative; one party can do something while the other party cannot do the same thing.
- Tuesday morning's IF/THEN logic conditionals did not convey ability. Each conditional expressed the results of actions.
- You cared deeply enough to help.
- Your son was driven by his desires - his lusts, and he disregarded your instruction; in other words, his lusts were manifest by his action.
- Your son's nature was to defy you despite (1) the command, (2) the declaration, and (3) the conditionals; in other words, the fruit of his nature were visible.
- Your son was in rebellion against you.
Point 2 is a parallel - a remote shadow at best, to when the Lord Jesus' says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16, also John 15:13-15 about love and friends). It is crucial to discern the exclusive nature of the declarative; one party can do something while the other party cannot do the same thing; in other words, men cannot choose God while God chooses men.
Point 4 is analagous, a shadow at best, to how the Father in heaven causes the "sun to rise on [the] evil and [the] good, and sends rain on [the] righteous and [the] unrighteous" (Matthew 5:45).
Points 5 and 6 are analagous to the evilness of man as default nature. "No one is good except God alone" (The Word of God, Mark 10:18).
The example is concluded.
Commands do not convey ability; rather, commands expose the desires of the person, more specifically the heart of the person, even fruit of the person by the outcome of the person's actions.
One Way and one Way only (John 14:6) exists for man to respond in good to God, and this Way is ’ fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works in Christ for us Christians “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they are having been worked in God” (John 3:21).
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE KING JESUS OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD!!!
Hearing and believing are what results in the condition of having passed from death to life. This is explained absolutely in the very next verse,
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
THE DEAD SHALL HEAR.
THEY THAT HEAR SHALL LIVE.
@Kermos, your soteriology assigns to God such strikingly absurd character traits as to be offensive to any believer. It makes God the author, reason and cause of all, and I mean all, of what is wrong in the world. It is a real shame.
1 John 5:1 declares the condition that everyone who believes in Christ are the ones who have been born of God. That verse trounces the idea that regeneration is independent of one's belief. Keep those anti-calvinism verses coming!
John 6:29 is a superlative synergistic verse that combines your actions (you believe in Him) and God's actions (the work of God). Keep those synergistic verses coming!
You filled it with synergistic and anti-calvinism truths. Well done!
Eternally-Grateful
Well-known member
lol.
You believe you were born again in sin.
We believe as the scripture says, Everyone who believes is born of God.
I can add some more
John 20: 31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.
Life is through faith. by Grace.
Not before
Exactly! They believe that they are born again (made alive) when still dead in sin. @Kermos is unwittingly promoting a Living Dead Zombie phase in his heretical theology.
Calvinists are such a silly bunch.
Eternally-Grateful
Well-known member
They seem to have this implanted fear that us trusting God is us cooperating with God and earning salvation,.Exactly! They believe that they are born again (made alive) when still dead in sin. @Kermos is unwittingly promoting a Living Dead Zombie phase in his heretical theology.
Calvinists are such a silly bunch.
Which is why they claim people like us a re synergists. when we are not..
Johann
Well-known member
To be clear, I use the term Synergy in the same sense that the Apostles called themselves Synergists (συνεργοι or συνεργουντος) in Mark 16:20 and 1 Cor 3:9.
In Mark 16:20, the Greek words του κυριου συνεργουντος translate to Lord’s Synergists/Fellow Workers and in 1 Cor 3:9 the Greek words συνεργοι θεου translate to God’s Synergists/Fellow Workers.
(Mark 16:20) εκεινοι δε εξελθοντες εκηρυξαν πανταχου του κυριου συνεργουντος (Lord’s Synergists/Fellow Workers) και τον λογον βεβαιουντος δια των επακολουθουντων σημειων σημειων αμην
(1 Cor 3:9) θεου γαρ εσμεν συνεργοι θεου (God’s Synergists/Fellow Workers) γεωργιον θεου οικοδομη εστε
CC: @Eternally-Grateful
Johann
Well-known member
How?
Does “Compel” Mean Coerce? What Does συνέχει Mean in 2 Corinthians 5:14?
Lexical, grammatical, and contextual exegesis on divine influence and human will
Text (2 Corinthians 5:14):
Ἡ γὰρ ἀγάπη τοῦ Χριστοῦ συνέχει ἡμᾶς, κρίναντας τοῦτο, ὅτι εἷς ὑπὲρ πάντων ἀπέθανεν· ἄρα οἱ πάντες ἀπέθανον.
“For the love of Christ compels us, having judged this: that One died for all, therefore all died.”
συνέχει: Present Active Indicative, 3rd person singular
→ from the verb συνέχω (Strong’s G4912)
→ meaning: to hold together, to press upon, to urge, to constrain
κρίναντας: Aorist Active Participle, accusative masculine plural
→ from κρίνω (“to judge, decide”)
→ temporal-participial construction indicating cause or condition: “having come to the judgment...”
What Does συνέχω Mean?
According to BDAG (3rd ed., p. 974):
συνέχω:
(1) to hold together or enclose (Luke 8:45)
(2) to control or restrain emotionally (Luke 22:63)
(3) to impel or urge from within (2 Cor. 5:14; Phil. 1:23)
— not coercion, but inner constraint from strong conviction or affection
Liddell-Scott-Jones (LSJ) includes:
"to press hard upon," "to confine," "to be afflicted or seized with,"
often in the sense of mental or moral pressure, not external force
The subject is ἡ ἀγάπη τοῦ Χριστοῦ (likely objective genitive: Christ’s love for us)
The verb συνέχει governs the accusative ἡμᾶς — “the love of Christ is constraining us”
The aorist participle κρίναντας implies a prior judgment: Paul and his companions are not passively compelled, but have concluded something rationally
→ “Having judged this: that One died for all...”
→ This clause confirms that human cognition and moral assent are present and active
Intertextual Examples
Luke 8:45: ὁ ὄχλος συνέχει σε (the crowd presses in on you)
→ literal spatial pressure, not mental coercion
Philippians 1:23: συνέχομαι ἐκ τῶν δύο (I am torn between two desires)
→ intense internal pull, not forced behavior
Acts 18:5: ὁ Παῦλος συνέχεται τῷ λόγῳ (Paul was constrained/devoted by the word)
→ a volitional binding to the Word of God, not divine override
Plato, Phaedo 99b: συνέχεται ὑπὸ τοῦ λόγου
→ “he is constrained by reason” — i.e., compelled intellectually, not physically or involuntarily
The grammar, participial syntax, and lexeme usage all confirm:
συνέχει does not imply divine override or coercive force
It denotes an overwhelming moral, emotional, or spiritual influence
The believer remains a rational and willing respondent: “having judged this...” (κρίναντας)
This fits within a synergistic theological framework:
→ Christ’s love initiates, motivates, and urges,
→ but the human will is not bypassed, and Paul's own rational reflection (κρινω) is essential to the response
Refutation of Deterministic Readings
No usage of συνέχω in the NT, LXX, or classical Greek supports the idea of irresistible grace or coercive control.
The compelling love of Christ in 2 Corinthians 5:14 is a persuasive, constraining power of love upon the conscience, not a negation of the will.
2 Corinthians 5:14 teaches that Christ’s love is so profound that it morally and spiritually urges believers to live for Him, not that it forces them to obey.
The participle κρίναντας highlights human reason and judgment in response to divine love, ruling out a monergistic interpretation.
Synergistic-right @Kermos?
J.
Johann
Well-known member
Absolutely - I fully agree, and there are even more συν- compound verbs in Paul's epistles that further reinforce this synergistic theme brother.
Greek Verb Parsing Example Translation Reference Implication
συνεργέω Verb – PAI-3S “works together” Rom 8:28 God works with those who love Him
συμμορφίζω Verb – PPM/P-1P “being conformed with” Phil 3:10 Co-suffering with Christ
συζάω Verb – PAI-1P “we shall live with” Rom 6:8 Shared resurrection life
συνεσταύρωμαι Perf. Pass. Indicative “I have been crucified with” Gal 2:20 Co-crucifixion with Christ
συνταφέντες Aorist Pass. Participle “having been buried with” Rom 6:4 Co-burial in baptism
συνανέστη Aorist Act. Indicative “He raised us up together” Eph 2:6 Co-resurrection with Christ
συγκληρονόμοι Noun – nom. plural “joint-heirs” Rom 8:17 Shared inheritance with Christ
συσταυρόω Verb – Aor. Pass. “crucified with” Rom 6:6 Joint crucifixion with old man
συζωοποιέω Verb – Aor. Act. Ind. “made alive together” Eph 2:5 Co-life-giving with Christ
συνθάπτω Verb – Aor. Pass. Ind. “buried with” Col 2:12 Co-burial in spiritual death
συνεφώνουν Impf. Act. Ind. “they agreed together” Acts 5:9 Used negatively of cooperation
συνάγω Verb – Pres. “to gather together” Eph 1:10 Uniting all in Christ
συμπολίτης Noun – masc. “fellow citizens” Eph 2:19 Shared polity with saints
συναγωνίζομαι Verb – Pres. Mid. “strive together” Rom 15:30 Collaborative intercession
These verbs affirm not monergism (divine-alone action) but synergism-God acting with, in, and through willing human agents. Each term stresses shared experience, common destiny, or mutual cooperation.
@Kermos @Eternally-Grateful
J.
civic
Well-known member
ditto
Actually, he does convey such a claim just like you do in similar fashion with your posts and your following post.
You believe without your choosing toward God that you would be under punishment from God instead of pleasure, so you believe buy your way into heaven with your fleshly free-will faith payment in your "apart from Christ, I chose to believe in Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63), so you believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:9-10).
I have read your posts to coalesce your statement of belief.
Eternally-Grateful
Well-known member
Eternally-Grateful
Well-known member
Context here is sanctification or Christian growth or the church working together with God to achieve his purpose here on earth.
It would not fit the gospel message however.
Eternally-Grateful
Well-known member
That's the problem with most reformers. They think they are right no matter what. and see things in other people that are not there (most of you do not do this. but many do)
Your not God. You do not get the right to tell people what they believe. They get the right to tell you what they believe. and you as a child of God have the command to be humble and not falsly accuse them based on your belief system
Nothing here of any truth concerning my belief system.
Stop listening to what men tell you. And start with humility listening to others.
As I stated in another chat room. Stop putting people under ISMS.. when you do this, inevitably you will falsly accuse people because you trying to put them under some isms.
This is seen its greatest when we have a reformed or catholic debate. becasue people on both sides are programed how to respond.
Johann
Well-known member
I affirm without qualification that my salvation through the Messiah is an act entirely wrought by God---
not from man, not from myself, and not by works, so that no one may boast.
As it is written--
'For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast' (Ephesians 2:8–9, NASB).
This salvation is not sourced in human will, merit, or effort,
'not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God' (John 1:13).
It is God who reconciled us to Himself through Christ (2 Corinthians 5:18),
God who made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf (2 Corinthians 5:21),
God who delivered Him up for us all (Romans 8:32),
and God who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God (1 Peter 1:21).
Thus, boasting is excluded,
'Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith' (Romans 3:27).
Our salvation is God’s initiative, God’s power, and God’s mercy--
and the glory belongs to Him alone."
However, that said, following our initial salvation, one must seriously reckon with the numerous συν- compound verbs in Paul’s letters--how do you account for them?
J.
The Gospel message demands a synergy between man and God. Take Mark 1:15 for example.
“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”
In this verse, Jesus commands two specific responses: repent and believe. Repent and believe are active volitional verbs. Both actions involve the will of the person and require conscious decision-making and effort.
Because repentance and belief are action-oriented commands that must be carried out by the individual in response to God’s call, this suggests a synergistic model of salvation—where human response cooperates with divine initiative. God's grace enables, but humans must respond actively. Thus, salvation, while initiated and empowered by God, is not monergistic (God alone acting) but synergistic (God and human working together).
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