Selah
Active member
So how do you explain Romans 8:28-29? Justified. Of course, we need to understand that not all humans are elect.
An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
civic
Well-known member
I'm not the admin someone else is and my voice will not be muzzled here like it was on other forums. I am not violating any rules and if you think I am then please report me as I'm held accountable to the moderators/admins here just the same as you are. I don't get preferential treatment here just because this is my forum. We all have the freedom to express our beliefs and to also have them challenged. We just ask that the members here show respect and not personally insult others. I'm accountable to @Administrator @Predestined @Mod2
hope this helps !!!
civic
Well-known member
We are elect in Christ and become saved when we believe. This is foreknowledge as God knows those who will choose freely to believe the gospel. Ephesians 1:1-14 spells this out.
Please inform us where @civic has violated the rules and we @Administrator will deal with the post and talk with him. He wants to be accountable and is treated the same as all members on B.A.M.
Johann
Well-known member
Just as you're free to use online resources, I’m equally entitled to use any tools at my disposal.
Perhaps it would be best if you and I spoke with the @Administrator to find a way to maintain some distance and avoid further unnecessary friction.
J.
Holy Spirit inspired Apostle Paul clearly conveys the work of grace, saved, and faith for us Christians is controlled by the work of God with:
The Apostle Paul wrote faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8) not at the exclusion of salvation because Paul wrote you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8).
You now developed your convoluted by grace you are saved by your work through your free-will faith, and thatnot of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work (TomL 2:8-10).
According to you, Holy Spirit inspired Paul is silly for writing faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8).
Your heartfelt 'And of course, there is no gender agreement between faith and the relative Greek pronoun touto (That), so faith is not its antecedent' illegally breaks the inflective Greek language's case/gender/number grammatical matching association principle because the verb "saved" with its implicit noun "you" matches 1 out of 3 with the word "that" and "grace" matches 1 out of 3 with the word "that" and "faith" matches 1 out of 3 with the word "that" as composed in the Holy Spirit by the Apostle Paul which results in the grammatical requirement that the word "that" be associated with the nearest preceding noun "faith" as shown in Ephesians 2:8 and detailed in post #7,315 to you.
When taken as a linguistic whole, Ephesians 2:8 results in this Truth (John 14:6) that the entirety of
In Ephesians 2:9, Paul makes amazingly clear that the gift of faith is not a work of man along with the surrounding verses of Ephesians 2:8 and Ephesians 2:10 to clearly state that faith is the gift of God because we are his work (Ephesians 2:10).
The Apostle Paul is in accord with Lord Jesus Christ's sayings of "This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).
by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work
The Apostle Paul wrote faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8) not at the exclusion of salvation because Paul wrote you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8).
You now developed your convoluted by grace you are saved by your work through your free-will faith, and that
According to you, Holy Spirit inspired Paul is silly for writing faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8).
Your heartfelt 'And of course, there is no gender agreement between faith and the relative Greek pronoun touto (That), so faith is not its antecedent' illegally breaks the inflective Greek language's case/gender/number grammatical matching association principle because the verb "saved" with its implicit noun "you" matches 1 out of 3 with the word "that" and "grace" matches 1 out of 3 with the word "that" and "faith" matches 1 out of 3 with the word "that" as composed in the Holy Spirit by the Apostle Paul which results in the grammatical requirement that the word "that" be associated with the nearest preceding noun "faith" as shown in Ephesians 2:8 and detailed in post #7,315 to you.
When taken as a linguistic whole, Ephesians 2:8 results in this Truth (John 14:6) that the entirety of
- grace is not a work of man.
- grace is the work of God.
- saved is not a work of man.
- saved is the work of God.
- faith is not a work of man.
- faith is the work of God.
by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work
One of the grammatical functions of the genitive case is to establish association between two nouns. Paul used the genitive and singular combination for only two words in Ephesians 2:8, and these two words are the masculine "God" and the feminine "faith".In Ephesians 2:9, Paul makes amazingly clear that the gift of faith is not a work of man along with the surrounding verses of Ephesians 2:8 and Ephesians 2:10 to clearly state that faith is the gift of God because we are his work (Ephesians 2:10).
The Apostle Paul is in accord with Lord Jesus Christ's sayings of "This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).
Johann
Well-known member
Stalking me and dictate what I should and shouldn't post starting from #8,025
1d. No chats that deteriorate into petty bickering, gossip, backbiting, or argumentative bantering.
2. No Flaming, Goading, Gaslighting or Harassment.
2b. No insults are allowed. Included in this are all forms of flaming, harassment, and trolling/goading as determined at the discretion of the Berean Board Team. Trolling/Goading is defined as repeated attempts through the use of images, cartoons, smileys or text that is designed to be explicitly demeaning, patronizing, embarrassing, or otherwise upsetting to a member or group of members in the community. Do not call anyone a heretic, false teacher, a cultist , satanic or any other such term.
Thanks.
J.
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Johann
Well-known member
And my voice will not be muzzled even if this is your forum and like you I am also accountable to @Administrator @Predestined @Mod2.
2b. No insults are allowed. Included in this are all forms of flaming, harassment, and trolling/goading as determined at the discretion of the Berean Board Team. Trolling/Goading is defined as repeated attempts through the use of images, cartoons, smileys or text that is designed to be explicitly demeaning, patronizing, embarrassing, or otherwise upsetting to a member or group of members in the community. Do not call anyone a heretic, false teacher, a cultist , satanic or any other such term.
J.
civic
Well-known member
So here is what I suggest. You quote who you want and I won't have a problem with it and I will quote who I want and you allow me the same freedom to make my points. If you ask me to defend it with scripture alone then I will do that and I will do the same. I know I can defend my beliefs from both the bible and church history. I'm sure you can do the same yourself.
How does this sound as a solution ?
If this does not satisfy our differences then ask the @Administrator @Predestined to chime in for a solution.
And as an FYI I'm sure that you appreciate the freedoms all of us have here without being muzzled like many of us were/are on other online forums.
civic
Well-known member
I agree with you see my last post.
I don't ever want to do that with anyone here Christian or not.
And I called augustine that not any forum member as an FYI. Thats no different then saying the gnostics were false teachers.
Johann
Well-known member
This is my Sunday, and I’m choosing not to engage in any further dialogue with you.I agree with you see my last post.
I don't ever want to do that with anyone here Christian or not.
And I called augustine that not any forum member as an FYI. Thats no different then saying the gnostics were false teachers.
J.
civic
Well-known member
Thats great enjoy your Sunday. God bless !
Dizerner
Well-known member
civic
Well-known member
The question is when does one become a sinner and guilty. I’ve provided many passages from both testaments telling us when one becomes guilty and condemned as a sinner. Your proof text in isolation of the rest of scripture is nothing more than a proof text.
A text without the context is a pretext for a proof text.
hope this helps !!!
Johann
Well-known member
Absolutely correct and pleasantly surprised you study this way-do the same for Romans 5.12.
Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— I want to see the Definite Article, two-THE Sin-The death--personified
The WHOLE human race were in the loins of Adam
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
Rom 5:15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.
Rom 5:16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification.
Rom 5:17 For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 5:18 Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.
Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.
Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,
Rom 5:21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Johann.
Johann
Well-known member
What, in rational reality, does that even mean?
Johann
Well-known member
"the whole human race" is treated as a singular collective noun.
Hebrews 7:10, where Levi is said to have paid tithes to Melchizedek while still in the loins of Abraham, affirming the biblical concept that descendants are present in their ancestor in a representative or seminal sense.
This also supports Paul’s argument in Romans 5:12–19 that all sinned in Adam, as his act of disobedience was not merely personal but representative of all humanity.
According to Scripture, all humanity was both representatively and seminally present in Adam. His sin was not merely personal-it was the fall of the entire human race, which is why Paul writes in Romans 5 that through one man's disobedience, many were made sinners. In this sense, we were all in Adam, just as Hebrews 7 says Levi was in the loins of Abraham. This is how Scripture explains the universality of sin and our need for a second Adam-Christ.
What's so difficult to understand this Jim?
J.
