An Article on free will

[L.A.M.B.]

Presby,,,
you really are following the wrong denomination!!!

*you really are following the wrong denom i nation!!!*
(demon i nation !!!)
Thank you.
Yes, call 'em like they are ,sister.

 

[TomL]

@TomL



Sure as an regenerated saved sheep, they are commanded to believe 1 Jn 3:23

And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 Jn 5:13

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Jesus isnt telling spiritually dead, goats, children of the devil to do something to get saved. Thats ridiculous.

Your first problem, nothing in the text states they were regenerated

Your second problem is they did not believe

John 6:28–36 (LEB) — 28 So they said to him, “What shall we do that we can accomplish the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God: that you believe in the one whom that one sent.” 30 So they said to him, “Then what sign will you perform, so that we can see it and believe you? What will you do? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, just as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’ 32 Then Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly I say to you, Moses did not give you bread from heaven, but my Father is giving you the true bread from heaven! 33 For the bread of God is the one who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 So they said to him, “Sir, always give us this bread!” 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. The one who comes to me will never be hungry, and the one who believes in me will never be thirsty again. 36 But I said to you that you have seen me and do not believe.


hello

So Jesus is telling unregenerated unbelievers to believe something you imagine they cannot do

So did you imagine Jesus was ignorant of their inability or simply knowingly telling them to do something they cannot do

Your third problem

 

[brightfame52]

@TomL

Your first problem, nothing in the text states they were regenerated

There is no problem, they which are in the flesh cannot please God. Thats the unregenerated

 

[Kermos]

Are you a "Bot" friend? No comprehendo?

J.

I am a vessel of mercy formed by the loving Potter (Romans 9:18-23), my Lord and God Jesus Christ. The Lord God Almighty has me here proclaiming Truth (John 14:6) revealed in the Word of God.

God's desire is always satisfied. God is patient, yet God's desire is always satisfied.

An absolutely awesome event occurs about God's desire (desire=unsatisfied state) for Lord Jesus says "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I desired to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling" (Matthew 23:37) in extremely close proximity to the timeframe of when God's desire regarding Jerusalem "to gather your children together" was satisfied as the Apostle Matthew records "And the crowds that went before him and that followed him were shouting, 'Hosanna to the Son of David! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest!'" as Christ triumphantly rode Jerusalem (Matthew 21:9). Hallelujah, Almighty God's desire satisfied!

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE SOVEREIGN POTTER!!!

 

[GodsGrace]

Quote for the class chapter 9 section 1 since you know more than I do. Teach us

You're too much P.
I'm going to have to stop posting to you.
This is nonsense and not a serious convo.

You didn't mention which Confession...but they're basically all the same.
so here's Chapter 9, Section 1 of the modern language version of the Westminster Confession:

Chapter 9 Free Will
Paragraph 1: God gave us freedom of will.....etc.
Paragraph 2: When man was still innocent, before Adam and Eve's fall....etc.
Paragraph 3: And we did fall...
Paragraph 4: WHEN GOD CONVERTS US.....and there goes free will.
this is known as irresistible grace.

YOUR free will is one way P....
God's way or no way.

YOU believe God had to convert you because you're so depraved that you are unable to seek God.
So, in your belief system, God has to do everything and you have NO CHOICE.
He must convert you whether you will it or not.

And with this...
Good night.

 

[GodsGrace]

Pardon my interjection but it generally starts at a very young age, when people you know , such as me, gets their training just the same as if you were a kid in the RCC. And you grow up thinking that everyone believes this way. And scriptures are selected for any lessons... and it will be lifetime or until you start to read the bible yourself... and wonder why a member from your church, which is your boss at the time tells you
Not to read the bible without a concordance or something with explanations. (I speak from experience)

So in a way, tricked into the system might be appropriate, but then when you read something Calvin says... " his words"... while the others (the reprobate) would be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death... and then you read it in the Westminster Confession of Faith which came out about 100 years after Calvin and it hits you “barred from access to” salvation, that just tells me that a loving Father would hardly bar people from salvation... would he?

If He would create people to fulfill history with the way things were programmed ( if I can use that term) from before creation until "the end"
and then just allow those people to cease to exist... because they had served there purpose... would not be so bad but then to think He would have created people to be reprobates and their ultimate goal would be damnation... as some interpret... or hell fire... as others say.... just makes no sense.

Well, I digress too much.

LOL, and if he was he would never admit it...

I agree.

Agreed on all MT.
And who can know better than someone who has lived through the experience!

It would be a monstrous god that would create persons for His own good pleasure....use them....and then send them to hell forever.
Where is the Love, the mercy, the justice? There is non in calvinist theology.

@Presby02 wanted me to post Chapter 9 from one of the confessions, which I did.
He THINKS it means that he has free will.
Two points:
1. This just points out how brainwashed he is that he doesn't even understand that according to the reformed....he has no free will.
2. I guess he forgot to read Chapter 3 which explains how God ORDAINED/DECREED EVERYTHING that happens.

No free will in Calvinism.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes thats to the Sheep, Christ gives them eternal life correct ? Jn 10:27-28

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Well, of course the question is:
HOW did they become Jesus' sheep?

 

[TomL]

@TomL



There is no problem, they which are in the flesh cannot please God. Thats the unregenerated

Actual problem

regeneration, being made alive follows believing

John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

 

[brightfame52]

Actual problem

regeneration, being made alive follows believing

John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

There is no problem, they which are in the flesh cannot please God. Thats the unregenerated, so they cannot believe, which pleases God

 

[TomL]

There is no problem, they which are in the flesh cannot please God. Thats the unregenerated, so they cannot believe, which pleases God

Problem

You cannot address rebuttal

regeneration, being made alive follows believing

John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

 

[brightfame52]

Problem

You cannot address rebuttal

regeneration, being made alive follows believing

John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

There is no problem, they which are in the flesh cannot please God. Thats the unregenerated, so they cannot believe, which pleases God

 

[Kermos]

Problem

You cannot address rebuttal

regeneration, being made alive follows believing

John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

“This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29).

 

[MTMattie]

Agreed on all MT.
And who can know better than someone who has lived through the experience!

It would be a monstrous god that would create persons for His own good pleasure....use them....and then send them to hell forever.
Where is the Love, the mercy, the justice? There is non in calvinist theology.

@Presby02 wanted me to post Chapter 9 from one of the confessions, which I did.
He THINKS it means that he has free will.
Two points:
1. This just points out how brainwashed he is that he doesn't even understand that according to the reformed....he has no free will.
2. I guess he forgot to read Chapter 3 which explains how God ORDAINED/DECREED EVERYTHING that happens.

No free will in Calvinism.

He should read his fellow Calvin/predestined here and would know they don't believe it exists.... for anyone.

 

[synergy]

There is no problem, they which are in the flesh cannot please God. Thats the unregenerated, so they cannot believe, which pleases God

Huh? The unregenerated, so they cannot believe, pleases God???? Which verse ever says that? More wackiness from those who run away from verses like Rom 8:13

(Rom 8:13) For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Stop running away from acknowledging who "you" is in Rom 8:13.

 

[Selah]

Then why does He not simply save all men?

I do not deny free will. For the how many times now?

God desires that we love Him voluntarily, by our own free will.

 

[Dizerner]

Wrong. As usual. No Calvinist denies free will.

It's amazing how ignorant some can be.

Do you really believe what you are saying, lol?

You realize you redefine free will to no longer be free, right?

And the whole reason you keep asking "Why doesn't God save everyone," is because you don't understand free will is supposed to actually BE free.

Think about this: if you redefine free to be deterministic, than of course it makes no sense that free will is the answer anymore.

 

[Dizerner]

So you know every single person who has left Calvinism?

That's not what I said, is it?

Do you realize it's dishonest to change what a person said?

Please consider your dishonesty, and how it might show an insincere heart.

 

[TomL]

There is no problem, they which are in the flesh cannot please God. Thats the unregenerated, so they cannot believe, which pleases God

You are still running

Problem

You cannot address rebuttal

regeneration, being made alive follows believing

John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

and cannot address rebuttal

 

[TomL]

“This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29).

The work that God requires as even your fellow Calvinists below affirm

John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)

This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.



As well as others

Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.



The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.

Unlike you their exegesis is based on the context.