An Article on free will

[civic]

You failed to show any distortions
You are simply repeating your same old talking points which ignore rebuttal

For example

Kermos said:



The people failed to understand, just like you, that Lord Jesus removed the work of man from saving belief/faith with the Lord’s marvelous sayings of “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29).


There you go with your unsupported assumptions

The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

In context its meaning is that which God requires of man

Repeating the same failed claims changes nothing

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Jesus tells them there is something they must do to obtain the food which last for eternal life

in context it is to believe on him

But you make jesus a liar and say there is nothing to do

John 6:35–36 (NASB 2020) — 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe.

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

Again this establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God

John 6:29 (NASB 2020) — 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Jesus tells them they must believe

John 6:30 (NASB 2020) — 30 So they said to Him, “What then are You doing as a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work are You performing?

The jew understand him to be telling them they must believe.

An understanding confirmed by Christ as per verse 35 above

They must believe

An understanding confirmed by scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

even Calvinist commentator agree with this obvious reading


John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)



This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.



Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.

What precisely is it that God waits for us to do, and will be satisfied with our doing? To which Jesus, always ready to meet the sincere inquirer, gives the explicit answer (ver. 29) τοῦτό ἐστι … ἐκεῖνος. If God has sent a messenger it is because there is need of such interposition, and the first duty must be to listen believingly to this messenger.

Marcus Dods, The Gospel of St. John (New York: George H. Doran Company, n.d.), 752.

The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.

Even the notes to the Geneva bible refute you


Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.


Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.

Mindlessly repeating your view does not negate what the scripture clearly shows

and

Again Christs choice of his apostles

His disciples were given to him by the Father.

John 17:6–12 (NASB 2020) — 6 “I have revealed Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have followed Your word.

From them he chose 12 to be apostles

Luke 6:13–16 (ESV) — 13 And when day came, he called his disciples and chose from them twelve, whom he named apostles: 14 Simon, whom he named Peter, and Andrew his brother, and James and John, and Philip, and Bartholomew, 15 and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot, 16 and Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.

John 6:70 (ESV) — 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”

John 13:18 (UASV) — 18 I do not speak of all of you. I know the ones I have chosen; but it is that the Scripture may be fulfilled, ‘He who eats My bread has lifted up his heel against Me.’

clearly Christ chose his apostles

Ye have not chosen me. The word here translated chosen is that from which is derived the word elect, and means the same thing. It is frequently thus translated, Mar. 13:20; Mat. 24:22, 24, 31; Col. 3:12. It refers here, doubtless, to his choosing or electing them to be apostles. He says that it was not because they had chosen him to be their teacher and guide, but because he had designated them to be his apostles. See Jn. 6:70; also Mat. 4:18–22.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 341.

consider the various choices here

Matthew 22:1–14 (ESV) — 1 And again Jesus spoke to them in parables, saying, 2 “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son, 3 and sent his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding feast, but they would not come. 4 Again he sent other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner, my oxen and my fat calves have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast.” ’ 5 But they paid no attention and went off, one to his farm, another to his business, 6 while the rest seized his servants, treated them shamefully, and killed them. 7 The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. 8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding feast is ready, but those invited were not worthy. 9 Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.’ 10 And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests. 11 “But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. 12 And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”


Think of how many times passages like John 15:16 (“You did not choose me; I chose you…”) are used as proof texts for the Calvinistic belief of individual election to salvation when clearly Jesus is speaking to His servants who are being prepared to take the invitation to the rest of the world. They are using Divine Choice #1 as proof for their belief about Divine Choice #3.



Divine Choice #1: The choice of His servants, who were given the task of sending out the invitation.

Divine Choice #2: The choice to send the invitation first to His own and then to all others.

Divine Choice #3: The choice to allow only those clothed in proper wedding garments to enter the feast.

In John 15:16 we have the choice of the apostles

And the bible does tell men to choose who they will serve

Joshua 24:15–25 (KJV 1900) — 15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. 16 And the people answered and said, God forbid that we should forsake the LORD, to serve other gods; 17 For the LORD our God, he it is that brought us up and our fathers out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage, and which did those great signs in our sight, and preserved us in all the way wherein we went, and among all the people through whom we passed: 18 And the LORD drave out from before us all the people, even the Amorites which dwelt in the land: therefore will we also serve the LORD; for he is our God. 19 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins. 20 If ye forsake the LORD, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, after that he hath done you good. 21 And the people said unto Joshua, Nay; but we will serve the LORD. 22 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the LORD, to serve him. And they said, We are witnesses. 23 Now therefore put away, said he, the strange gods which are among you, and incline your heart unto the LORD God of Israel. 24 And the people said unto Joshua, The LORD our God will we serve, and his voice will we obey. 25 So Joshua made a covenant with the people that day, and set them a statute and an ordinance in Shechem.

Amen brother

 

[TomL]

Your "hope this helps" about your post truly helps in demonstrating your failure to understand context, again. Your difficulty in maintaining context is apparent because @TomL quotes his god Calvin as TomL's authority to distort the Word of God back in post #2,092 where he is recorded quoting his god Calvin as his "truth" to purportedly prove your sovereignty of man over and above the Word of God's Truth (John 14:6) of the Sovereignty of God. I do not quote your god Calvin as support for the Sovereignty of God.

@civic, your activity in this thread is apparent through your publishing of post #2,922, post #2,925, post #2,927, #2,929, #2,930, #2,931, and #2,933, yet you fail to respond to post #2,920!




Your "hope this helps" about your post truly helps in demonstrating your failure to understand context, again. By God's grace for God's glory, I am sequentially segment this post to make it easier to understand context.

1. Interpretation of Holy Scripture
2. @TomL's constraint on John 3:16-17 by John 12:47
3. Christ's context for Christ's sayings recorded in John 12:47
4. Your context for Christ's sayings recorded in John 12:47
5. Christ's context of Christ's sayings recorded in John 3:16-18
6. Dogma and doctrine are importantly Truth (John 14:6)

1. Interpretation of Holy Scripture
   
   You inherit the writings of other people as your own writings when you exalt those people's writings as authority in your posts.
   
   Your heart's treasure securely holds to that which you call "The Golden Rule of Interpretation".
   
   
   When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.​
   
   That's a very high authoritative bar that you set there, civic, your "Golden Rule of Interpretation".
   
   Your fleshly mind's "common sense" is all that you need, and you can make "plain sense of Scripture" exclusively using your "common sense" before you are born of God according to your cumulative writings.
   
   Now, the time has come to compare and contrast your dearly held belief with the Apostle Peter's words:
   

   The Fleshly Traditions of Men		Holy Scripture
   know this first of all, that every prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for it matters not whether prophecy was made by an act of human will, or men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God (2 civic 1:20-21)		know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God (2 Peter 1:20-21)

   
   Peter and I are God-centered.
   
   You and TomL are man-centered.
2. @TomL's constraint on John 3:16-17 by John 12:47
   
   TomL caused himself to repeatedly preach that John 12:47 dictates the meaning of the word world in John 3:16-17; on the other hand, God caused me to proclaim that the word world in John 3:18 is contextually contiguously relevant in the same dialog as John 3:16-17 as compared to the temporally distant dialog in John 12:47.
3. Christ's context for Christ's sayings recorded in John 12:47
   
   Here is the precious and pure Word of God "If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 12:47).
   
   Lord and God Jesus Christ saves each one from the wrath of God who believes in the Son whom the Father has sent; in contrast, every one goes to hell who does not believe in Jesus (John 7:21-27).
   
   The Son says "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day" (John 6:39).
   
   There are two contexts regarding saved persons and unsaved people within the 29 words issued by Jesus recorded in John 12:47:
   

   Clause		Context
   If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him		unsaved people / all unbelievers
   for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world		saved people (now and then) / current believers and future believers

   
   We Christians hear Christ clearly convey that the world contextually includes exclusively current believers and future believers, that is, saved people, as per His loving "If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 12:47).
4. Your context for Christ's sayings recorded in John 12:47
   
   Of the word "world" in John 12:47, your heart assigned the definition of "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ" in a fashion similar to TomL.
   
   

   Clause		Context
   If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him		unsaved people / all unbelievers
   for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world		the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[

   
   The implications of your "the world" in John 12:47 are multiple.
   
   According to your Free-willian Philosophy, the following represents fleshly people, dead in sin unbelievers:
   • if Bob chooses to believe in Christ, then God must profit Bob with eternal life.
   • if Alice chooses to believe not in Christ, then God must punish Alice with eternal damnation.
   • The conclusion: the causative factor for a person being rewarded with eternal life is whether a person “chooses to believe in Christ”.
   So man is the cause of eternal life because man goes to hell without man choosing to believe in Christ.
   
   On to another dark consequence of your Free-willian Philosophy "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[" is that your heart's treasure renders Christ's death an abject failure for every unbeliever who dies as an unbeliever because Christ failed to save that saved unbeliever (see John 12:47 and the Alice example above).
   
   Your belief in failure atonement results in Christ being a false prophet because Jesus fails to save all that he died to save.
   
   The context around John 12:47 is relevant.
   
   Your heart set "the world" equal to "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[", so your heart equivocates "the world" into a thing of "all unbelievers who call in their own initiative speaking their self-willed change of heart from unbeliever to believer in Me".
   
   Your adulteration of the Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
   

   The word of civic		The Word of God
   If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save any unbeliever who calls in his own initiative speaking his self-willed change of heart from unbeliever to believer in Me. (civic 12:47)		If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. 49 “For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. (John 12:47-49)

   And so go your adulterations of precious and Holy Word of God again and again and again.
   
   See your heart has your "the world" of unbelievers being superior to Jesus because your unbelievers speak on their own initiative in contrast to Jesus who says "I did not speak on My own initiative" (John 12:49).
   
   A deeper sinister darkness lurks in your context for John 12:47. Both Bob and Alice start off as part of the world, so even believer Bob is unsaved because unbeliever Alice is unsaved which causes the entirety of the world to be unsaved from the wrath of God. Do not be deceived, Lord Jesus said "to save the world" in John 12:47 - "the world" is an aggregate phrase indicating the entire world.
   
   God caused me to address TomL's specific Free-willian Philosophical point, and you injected yourself as TomL's champion regarding TomL's Free-willian Philosophy, so you are one who does not receive Christ's sayings (John 12:48 - notice John 12:47 which is directly adjacent to John 12:48).
5. Christ's context of Christ's sayings recorded in John 3:16-18
   
   Let's look at Jesus' term the world in a directly adjacent critical text to John 3:16-17:
   
   
   16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every one believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
   (John 3:17-18)​
   
   Clearly, unbelievers of the world are judged as their default state of being as per Christ recorded in John 3:18 (which is directly adjacent to John 3:16-17 instead of way over to John 12:47 that fails as a proof text for your Free-willian Philosophy as demonstrated above).
   
   The dead in sin must be born of God in order to righteously perceive King Jesus of the Kingdom of God (John 3:3); furthermore, Lord Jesus Christ establishes the ordained order of salvation in John chapter 3 with John 3:3 preceding John 3:16 in the same dialog.
   
   Your Free-willian Philosophy holds that the dead in sin cause themselves to be born of God (have life in Christ), so your Free-willian Philosophy is false and in a state of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33) because the dead in sin do not cause themselves to be born of God (have life in Christ).
   
   The word "world" in John 3:16 is the population of persons who currently are or in the future will be imparted the work of God unto salvation that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).
6. Dogma is important Truth (John 14:6)
   
   Your heart discounts the concept of dogma with your words "I'm all about the TRUTH never dogma".
   
   Now while they were passing through the cities, they were delivering the dogma which had been decided upon by the apostles and elders who were in Jerusalem, for them to observe (Acts 16:4).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE FAITH!!!

You failed to rebut my interpretation of John 12:47

Um

John 12:47–48 (NASB 2020) — 47 If anyone hears My teachings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 The one who rejects Me and does not accept My teachings has one who judges him: the word which I spoke. That will judge him on the last day.

Makes it clear unbelievers are in view.

These unbelievers, rejectors of Christ are not judged at that time because Christ did not come to judge the world

Hello
'
Those with an honest desire for truth should have no problem associating those unbelievers with the world

Those looking to support an assumed theology however will stumble over this obvious conclusion

Yoiu just mindlessly repeat yourself over and over

 

[TomL]

Amen brother

Mindless repetition is all he offers

 

[TomL]

Behold, TomL's distortion of the Word of God back in post #2,092 where you are recorded quoting your god Calvin as your "truth" to purportedly prove your sovereignty of man over and above the Word of God's Truth (John 14:6) of the Sovereignty of God.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE ONE AND ONLY EVERLASTING SOVEREIGN GOD!!!

Behold you answered nothing

never do and simply repeat yourself over and over

 

[TomL]

Tom, we are on vacation this week, so not sure how much time I'll have ~ having over 35 five family members with us; my children, with their children, some of which are grown, and my wife's brother with a few of his family members. So I'll try to make a few short posts, here and there, so do not take this to mean I have nothing to say, but I will pick back up in a few days around Aug. 1st, the Lord willing.

We?

Who is the we on vacation?

Tom, we will not defend Calvinism, or expose Arminianism as much as you folks labor to make this battle to be between, it truly is not; it is a battle between truth and error/corruption and another gospel, the same old battle that has been fought since the beginning.

Well you are in fact touting Calvinism and another gospel. A gospel of unconditional election rather than a gospel based upon faith in Christ. One in which Christ is not central and salvation is apart from Christ. This is not personal but the bible does not teach a gospel of unconditional election

Those who have truth are not guilty of bifurcating the doctrine of Soteriology. But what we do is rightly divide the word of truth, which your camp fails to do. We follow men of God from days of Ezra, who read in the law of God distinctly, then they gave the sense, which in turn will cause the people to understand the reading of God's word~ the only God given method that is ordained of God to practice, without which, no one will ever come to the knowledge of God's truth.

Well the fact is you have bifurcated being born again and being made a child of God

Galatians 3:26 (NASB 2020) — 26 For you are all sons and daughters of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Nehemiah 8:8​

“So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.”

Being born again is the vital phrase of the elect's salvation, it is not the beginning, nor, the end, but part of the doctrine of Salvation. Salvation can be divided (2nd Timothy 2:15) into five phrases.
Tom when were you saved? You do know that the words save/saved/salvation are not use in the same sense throughout God's word? let us

Let’s ask Paul the question: When Were You Saved?​

This common question tries to pin eternal life down to some act at some point in time. Is this Biblical? Did the apostles ever ask this question? How would they answer such a question? Weren’t we all saved when they believed?​

I was saved given eternal life when I believed. I am being saved through sanctification of the spirit and I will be eschatologically saved in the future'

.​

Paul said he was saved before the world began (2nd Timothy 1:9), when Jesus came into the world (1st Timothy 1:15), when the Spirit regenerated him (Titus 3:5), when he took heed to himself and the doctrine (Ist Timothy 4:16), and would be saved sometime in the future (Romans 13:11).

Sorry that is an error. No one is saved apart from being in Christ

And until you believe you are not in Christ

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB 2020) — 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of the promise,

As I stated above, you have a gospel in which Christ is not central

Your exegesis of 2 Tim 1:9 is in error

2 Timothy 1:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

speaks of God's plan and intention which according to verse 10 is now '
'
2 Timothy 1:10 (KJV 1900) — 10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

That grace is in Christ and as above one is not in Christ until one believes

But your gospel of unconditional election is not in Christ and so another gospel

so alsos

1 Timothy 1:15 (NASB 2020) — 15 It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost.

It says nothing at all about Paul being saved at the time of Christ coming into the world

Can you believe it? Paul clearly mentions five different stages or phases of salvation. And this is the key to understanding our wonderful salvation in Jesus Christ.

Only if you misinterpret scripture and add categories not taught in the bible

 

[Kermos]

These Greek Lexicons affirm world means all, everyone, the whole world without exception. The meaning/ definition below proves your belief is wrong.

Thayers

Cosmos: the inhabitants of the

5. world: θέατρον ἐγενήθημεν τῷ κόσμῳ καί ἀγγέλοις καί ἀνθρώποις, 1 Corinthians 4:9 (Winers Grammar, 127 (121)); particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race (first so in Sap. (e. g. )): Matthew 13:38; Matthew 18:7; Mark 14:9; John 1:10, 29 ( L in brackets); ; Romans 3:6, 19; 1 Corinthians 1:27f (cf. Winer's Grammar, 189 (178)); ; 2 Corinthians 5:19; James 2:5 (cf. Winer's Grammar, as above); 1 John 2:2 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 577 (536)); ἀρχαῖος κόσμος, of the antediluvians, 2 Peter 2:5; γέννασθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον, John 16:21; ἔρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον (John 9:39) and εἰς τόν κόσμον τοῦτον, to make its appearance or come into existence among men, spoken of the light which in Christ shone upon men, John 1:9; John 3:19, cf. 12:46; of the Messiah, John 6:14; John 11:27; of Jesus as the Messiah, John 9:39; John 16:28; John 18:37; 1 Timothy 1:15; also ἐισέρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον, Hebrews 10:5; of false teachers, 2 John 1:7(yet here L T Tr WH ἐξέρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον; (so all texts in 1 John 4:1)); to invade, of evils coming into existence among men and beginning to exert their power: of sin and death, Romans 5:12 (of death, Wis. 2:24; Clement of Rome, 1 Cor. 3, 4 [ET]; of idolatry, Wis. 14:14). ἀποστέλλειν τινα εἰς τόν κόσμον, John 3:17; John 10:36; John 17:18; 1 John 4:9; φῶς τοῦ κόσμου, Matthew 5:14; John 8:12; John 9:5; σωτήρ τοῦ κόσμου, John 4:42; 1 John 4:14 (σωτηρία τοῦ κόσμου Wis. 6:26 (25); ἐλπίς τοῦ κόσμου, Wis. 14:6; πρωτόπλαστος πατήρ τοῦ κόσμου, of Adam, Wis. 10:1); στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου (see στοιχεῖον, 3 and 4); ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ, among men, John 16:33; John 17:13; Ephesians 2:12; ἐν κόσμῳ (see Winer's Grammar, 123 (117)), 1 Timothy 3:16; εἶναι ἐν τῷ κόσμου, to dwell among men, John 1:10; John 9:5; John 17:11, 12 R G; 1 John 4:3; εἶναι ἐν κόσμῳ, to be present, Romans 5:13; ἐξελθεῖν, ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου, to withdraw from human society and seek an abode outside of it, 1 Corinthians 5:10; ἀναστρέφεσθαι ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ, to behave oneself, 2 Corinthians 1:12; likewise εἶναι ἐν τῷ κόσμου τούτῳ, 1 John 4:17.

6. "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ" (cf. Winer's Grammar, 26): John 7:7; John 14:27 (); ; 1 Corinthians 1:21; 1 Corinthians 6:2; 1 Corinthians 11:32; 2 Corinthians 7:10; James 1:27; 1 Peter 5:9; 2 Peter 1:4; 2 Peter 2:20; 1 John 3:1, 13; 1 John 4:5; 1 John 5:19; of the aggregate of ungodly and wicked men in O. T. times, Hebrews 11:38; in Noah's time, ibid. 7; with οὗτος added, Ephesians 2:2 (on which see αἰών, 3); εἶναι ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου and ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου τούτου (see εἰμί, V. 3rd.), John 8:23; John 15:19; John 17:14, 16; 1 John 4:5;λαλεῖν ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου, to speak in accordance with the world's character and mode of thinking, 1 John 4:5; ὁ ἄρχων τοῦ κόσμου τούτου, i. e. the devil, John 12:31; John 14:30; John 16:11; ὁ ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ he that is operative in the world (also of the devil), 1 John 4:4; τό πνεῦμα τοῦ κόσμου

b. of all mankind, but especially of believers, as the object of God’s love J 3:16, 17c; 6:33, 51; 12:47.

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 446.

Conclusion: you have turned a blind eye to the biblical meaning in favor of Calvin’s false teaching. You follow the teachings of man.

Next …….

Hope this helps !!!

Of the word "world" in John 12:47, your heart assigned the definition of "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ" in a fashion similar to TomL.

Clause		Context
If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him		unsaved people / all unbelievers
for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world		the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[

The implications of your "the world" in John 12:47 are multiple.

According to your Free-willian Philosophy, the following represents fleshly people, dead in sin unbelievers:

• if Bob chooses to believe in Christ, then God must profit Bob with eternal life.
• if Alice chooses to believe not in Christ, then God must punish Alice with eternal damnation.
• The conclusion: the causative factor for a person being rewarded with eternal life is whether a person “chooses to believe in Christ”.

So man is the cause of eternal life because man goes to hell without man choosing to believe in Christ.

On to another dark consequence of your Free-willian Philosophy "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[" is that your heart's treasure renders Christ's death an abject failure for every unbeliever who dies as an unbeliever because Christ failed to save that saved unbeliever (see John 12:47 and the Alice example above).

Your belief in failure atonement results in Christ being a false prophet because Jesus fails to save all that he died to save.

The context around John 12:47 is relevant.

Your heart set "the world" equal to "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[", so your heart equivocates "the world" into a thing of "all unbelievers who call in their own initiative speaking their self-willed change of heart from unbeliever to believer in Me".

Your adulteration of the Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The word of civic		The Word of God
If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save any unbeliever who calls in his own initiative speaking his self-willed change of heart from unbeliever to believer in Me. (civic 12:47)		If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. 49 “For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. (John 12:47-49)

And so go your adulterations of precious and Holy Word of God again and again and again.

See your heart has your "the world" of unbelievers being superior to Jesus because your unbelievers speak on their own initiative in contrast to Jesus who says "I did not speak on My own initiative" (John 12:49).

A deeper sinister darkness lurks in your context for John 12:47. Both Bob and Alice start off as part of the world, so even believer Bob is unsaved because unbeliever Alice is unsaved which causes the entirety of the world to be unsaved from the wrath of God. Do not be deceived, Lord Jesus said "to save the world" in John 12:47 - "the world" is an aggregate phrase indicating the entire world.

God caused me to address TomL's specific Free-willian Philosophical point, and you injected yourself as TomL's champion regarding TomL's Free-willian Philosophy, so you are one who does not receive Christ's sayings (John 12:48 - notice John 12:47 which is directly adjacent to John 12:48).

For complete details see post #2,920.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE YOU LORD JESUS FOR WHO YOU ARE AND YOUR BLESSED LIBERATION!!!

 

[civic]

Of the word "world" in John 12:47, your heart assigned the definition of "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ" in a fashion similar to TomL.

Clause		Context
If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him		unsaved people / all unbelievers
for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world		the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[

The implications of your "the world" in John 12:47 are multiple.

According to your Free-willian Philosophy, the following represents fleshly people, dead in sin unbelievers:

• if Bob chooses to believe in Christ, then God must profit Bob with eternal life.
• if Alice chooses to believe not in Christ, then God must punish Alice with eternal damnation.
• The conclusion: the causative factor for a person being rewarded with eternal life is whether a person “chooses to believe in Christ”.

So man is the cause of eternal life because man goes to hell without man choosing to believe in Christ.

On to another dark consequence of your Free-willian Philosophy "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[" is that your heart's treasure renders Christ's death an abject failure for every unbeliever who dies as an unbeliever because Christ failed to save that saved unbeliever (see John 12:47 and the Alice example above).

Your belief in failure atonement results in Christ being a false prophet because Jesus fails to save all that he died to save.

The context around John 12:47 is relevant.

Your heart set "the world" equal to "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[", so your heart equivocates "the world" into a thing of "all unbelievers who call in their own initiative speaking their self-willed change of heart from unbeliever to believer in Me".

Your adulteration of the Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The word of civic		The Word of God
If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save any unbeliever who calls in his own initiative speaking his self-willed change of heart from unbeliever to believer in Me. (civic 12:47)		If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. 49 “For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. (John 12:47-49)

And so go your adulterations of precious and Holy Word of God again and again and again.

See your heart has your "the world" of unbelievers being superior to Jesus because your unbelievers speak on their own initiative in contrast to Jesus who says "I did not speak on My own initiative" (John 12:49).

A deeper sinister darkness lurks in your context for John 12:47. Both Bob and Alice start off as part of the world, so even believer Bob is unsaved because unbeliever Alice is unsaved which causes the entirety of the world to be unsaved from the wrath of God. Do not be deceived, Lord Jesus said "to save the world" in John 12:47 - "the world" is an aggregate phrase indicating the entire world.

God caused me to address TomL's specific Free-willian Philosophical point, and you injected yourself as TomL's champion regarding TomL's Free-willian Philosophy, so you are one who does not receive Christ's sayings (John 12:48 - notice John 12:47 which is directly adjacent to John 12:48).

For complete details see post #2,920.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE YOU LORD JESUS FOR WHO YOU ARE AND YOUR BLESSED LIBERATION!!!

Your Calvin / Augustine fatalism is the same as the false god of Islam. It’s the same philosophy. The wisdom of the god of this world at work.

Next

The Atonement has no limits

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Hebrews 2:9
But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

Titus 3:4
But when the kindness and the love of mankind of God our Savior appeared

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Corinthians 5:14
For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.

There are so many misnomers running around about God and His love and what that looks like in regard to mankind. If anyone wants to know what God is like and what He thinks we need to look no further than Jesus and His teachings since He is the Eternal God who became man.

1- Jesus taught us to love our enemies and pray for them
2- Jesus lived among sinners, ate with them and loved them, had compassion on them.
3- Jesus loves sinners, not hates them
4- Jesus on the cross said please forgive them Father for they know not what they do- His enemies who hated Him at the time.
5- Jesus came to seek and save the lost, the sinner
6- Jesus showed us what love looks like, acts like, talks like, lives like and how it treats people.
7- Jesus told us all the law and commandments are wrapped up/fulfilled in loving God with all our being( heart, mind,soul ) and your neighbor as you do yourself.
8- Jesus said if you really love Him you will do what He has commanded
9- Love is described perfectly in 1 Corinthians 13- If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.8 Love never fails.
10- Love in action in Galatians 5- But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.


conclusion: because God is Love and Jesus is God we can see to perfection that 1 Cor 13 and the fruit of the spirit in Gal 5:22-23 describes Jesus to a tee . He is love incarnate since God is love we see Him in action described in the gospels and where the Bible defines love.

 

[TomL]

Of the word "world" in John 12:47, your heart assigned the definition of "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ" in a fashion similar to TomL.

Clause		Context
If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him		unsaved people / all unbelievers
for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world		the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[

The implications of your "the world" in John 12:47 are multiple.

According to your Free-willian Philosophy, the following represents fleshly people, dead in sin unbelievers:

• if Bob chooses to believe in Christ, then God must profit Bob with eternal life.
• if Alice chooses to believe not in Christ, then God must punish Alice with eternal damnation.
• The conclusion: the causative factor for a person being rewarded with eternal life is whether a person “chooses to believe in Christ”.

So man is the cause of eternal life because man goes to hell without man choosing to believe in Christ.

UM

John 3:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

So faith is the instrumental cause

Faith is the mediate or instrumental cause of sanctification as well as of justification. It does not merit sanctification any more than it does justification, but it unites us to Christ and keeps us in touch with Him as the Head of the new humanity, who is the source of the new life within us, and also of our progressive sanctification, through the operation of the Holy Spirit



L. Berkhof, Systematic Theology (Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans publishing co., 1938), 537.

Tom, scripture and Berkoff all seem to agree

The efficient (primary) cause of our eternal salvation the Scripture uniformly proclaims to be the mercy and free love of the heavenly Father towards us; the material cause to be Christ, with the obedience by which he purchased righteousness for us; and what can the formal or instrumental cause be but faith? John includes the three in one sentence when he says, “God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life,” (John 3:16).

Opposed to scripture - kermos

On to another dark consequence of your Free-willian Philosophy "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[" is that your heart's treasure renders Christ's death an abject failure for every unbeliever who dies as an unbeliever because Christ failed to save that saved unbeliever (see John 12:47 and the Alice example above).

Except Christ provided salvation for all. He did not save men automatically


It may be asked: If atonement naturally and necessarily cancels guilt, why does not the vicarious atonement of Christ save all men indiscriminately, as the universalist contends? The substituted suffering of Christ being infinite is equal in value to the personal suffering of all mankind; why then are not all men upon the same footing and in the class of the saved, by virtue of it? The answer is because it is a natural impossibility. Vicarious atonement without faith in it is powerless to save. It is not the making of this atonement, but the trusting in it, that saves the sinner: “By faith are you saved” (Eph. 2:8); “he that believes shall be saved” (Mark 16:16). The making of this atonement merely satisfies the legal claims, and this is all that it does. If it were made but never imputed and appropriated, it would result in no salvation. A substituted satisfaction of justice without an act of trust in it would be useless to sinners. It is as naturally impossible that Christ’s death should save from punishment one who does not confide in it as that a loaf of bread should save from starvation a man who does not eat it. The assertion that because the atonement of Christ is sufficient for all men therefore no men are lost is as absurd as the assertion that because the grain produced in the year 1880 was sufficient to support the life of all men on the globe therefore no men died of starvation during that year. The mere fact that Jesus Christ made satisfaction for human sin, alone and of itself, will save no soul. Christ, conceivably, might have died precisely as he did, and his death have been just as valuable for expiatory purposes as it is, but if his death had not been followed with the work of the Holy Spirit and the act of faith on the part of individual men, he would have died in vain.[1]

---

[1] William Greenough Thayer Shedd, Dogmatic Theology, ed. Alan W. Gomes, 3rd ed. (Phillipsburg, NJ: P & R Pub., 2003), 726.

And yet another Calvinist opposed your thoughts

Your belief in failure atonement results in Christ being a false prophet because Jesus fails to save all that he died to save.

Except the bible never states Christ was going to save all, only that he died for all that those who believe might have eternal life

John 3:14–18 (KJV 1900) — 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

when you begin believing God's word, your man made gnostic theology will stop having any attraction for you

The context around John 12:47 is relevant.

Your heart set "the world" equal to "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[", so your heart equivocates "the world" into a thing of "all unbelievers who call in their own initiative speaking their self-willed change of heart from unbeliever to believer in Me".

You have done nothing to dispute the obvious

John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

The reason Christ did not judge unbelievers at that time is because he did not come to judge but save the world

Only if unbelievers are a part of the world does the sentence make sense.

Yet you never address the point and divert.

It is rather disingenuous of you to avoid the point, that unbelievers are a part of the world, and you do so repeatedly.

 

[civic]

UM

John 3:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

So faith is the instrumental cause

Faith is the mediate or instrumental cause of sanctification as well as of justification. It does not merit sanctification any more than it does justification, but it unites us to Christ and keeps us in touch with Him as the Head of the new humanity, who is the source of the new life within us, and also of our progressive sanctification, through the operation of the Holy Spirit



L. Berkhof, Systematic Theology (Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans publishing co., 1938), 537.

Tom, scripture and Berkoff all seem to agree

The efficient (primary) cause of our eternal salvation the Scripture uniformly proclaims to be the mercy and free love of the heavenly Father towards us; the material cause to be Christ, with the obedience by which he purchased righteousness for us; and what can the formal or instrumental cause be but faith? John includes the three in one sentence when he says, “God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life,” (John 3:16).

Opposed to scripture - kermos









Except Christ provided salvation for all. He did not save men automatically


It may be asked: If atonement naturally and necessarily cancels guilt, why does not the vicarious atonement of Christ save all men indiscriminately, as the universalist contends? The substituted suffering of Christ being infinite is equal in value to the personal suffering of all mankind; why then are not all men upon the same footing and in the class of the saved, by virtue of it? The answer is because it is a natural impossibility. Vicarious atonement without faith in it is powerless to save. It is not the making of this atonement, but the trusting in it, that saves the sinner: “By faith are you saved” (Eph. 2:8); “he that believes shall be saved” (Mark 16:16). The making of this atonement merely satisfies the legal claims, and this is all that it does. If it were made but never imputed and appropriated, it would result in no salvation. A substituted satisfaction of justice without an act of trust in it would be useless to sinners. It is as naturally impossible that Christ’s death should save from punishment one who does not confide in it as that a loaf of bread should save from starvation a man who does not eat it. The assertion that because the atonement of Christ is sufficient for all men therefore no men are lost is as absurd as the assertion that because the grain produced in the year 1880 was sufficient to support the life of all men on the globe therefore no men died of starvation during that year. The mere fact that Jesus Christ made satisfaction for human sin, alone and of itself, will save no soul. Christ, conceivably, might have died precisely as he did, and his death have been just as valuable for expiatory purposes as it is, but if his death had not been followed with the work of the Holy Spirit and the act of faith on the part of individual men, he would have died in vain.[1]

---

[1] William Greenough Thayer Shedd, Dogmatic Theology, ed. Alan W. Gomes, 3rd ed. (Phillipsburg, NJ: P & R Pub., 2003), 726.

And yet another Calvinist opposed your thoughts





Except the bible never states Christ was going to save all, only that he died for all that those who believe might have eternal life

John 3:14–18 (KJV 1900) — 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

when you begin believing God's word, your man made gnostic theology will stop having any attraction for you


You have done nothing to dispute the obvious

John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

The reason Christ did not judge unbelievers at that time is because he did not come to judge but save the world

Only if unbelievers are a part of the world does the sentence make sense.

Yet you never address the point and divert.

It is rather disingenuous of you to avoid the point, that unbelievers are a part of the world, and you do so repeatedly.

Get ready for another cut n paste of the same thing for the 100th time

 

[Kermos]

Get ready for another cut n paste of the same thing for the 100th time

If you were strong, then you would respond to the 6 points.

The Golden Rule of Interpretation

“When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.”–Dr. David L. Cooper (1886-1965),founder of The Biblical Research Society

These Greek Lexicons affirm world means all, everyone, the whole world without exception.

Thayers

Cosmos: the inhabitants of the

5. world: θέατρον ἐγενήθημεν τῷ κόσμῳ καί ἀγγέλοις καί ἀνθρώποις, 1 Corinthians 4:9 (Winers Grammar, 127 (121)); particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race (first so in Sap. (e. g. )): Matthew 13:38; Matthew 18:7; Mark 14:9; John 1:10, 29 ( L in brackets); ; Romans 3:6, 19; 1 Corinthians 1:27f (cf. Winer's Grammar, 189 (178)); ; 2 Corinthians 5:19; James 2:5 (cf. Winer's Grammar, as above); 1 John 2:2 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 577 (536)); ἀρχαῖος κόσμος, of the antediluvians, 2 Peter 2:5; γέννασθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον, John 16:21; ἔρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον (John 9:39) and εἰς τόν κόσμον τοῦτον, to make its appearance or come into existence among men, spoken of the light which in Christ shone upon men, John 1:9; John 3:19, cf. 12:46; of the Messiah, John 6:14; John 11:27; of Jesus as the Messiah, John 9:39; John 16:28; John 18:37; 1 Timothy 1:15; also ἐισέρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον, Hebrews 10:5; of false teachers, 2 John 1:7(yet here L T Tr WH ἐξέρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον; (so all texts in 1 John 4:1)); to invade, of evils coming into existence among men and beginning to exert their power: of sin and death, Romans 5:12 (of death, Wis. 2:24; Clement of Rome, 1 Cor. 3, 4 [ET]; of idolatry, Wis. 14:14). ἀποστέλλειν τινα εἰς τόν κόσμον, John 3:17; John 10:36; John 17:18; 1 John 4:9; φῶς τοῦ κόσμου, Matthew 5:14; John 8:12; John 9:5; σωτήρ τοῦ κόσμου, John 4:42; 1 John 4:14 (σωτηρία τοῦ κόσμου Wis. 6:26 (25); ἐλπίς τοῦ κόσμου, Wis. 14:6; πρωτόπλαστος πατήρ τοῦ κόσμου, of Adam, Wis. 10:1); στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου (see στοιχεῖον, 3 and 4); ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ, among men, John 16:33; John 17:13; Ephesians 2:12; ἐν κόσμῳ (see Winer's Grammar, 123 (117)), 1 Timothy 3:16; εἶναι ἐν τῷ κόσμου, to dwell among men, John 1:10; John 9:5; John 17:11, 12 R G; 1 John 4:3; εἶναι ἐν κόσμῳ, to be present, Romans 5:13; ἐξελθεῖν, ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου, to withdraw from human society and seek an abode outside of it, 1 Corinthians 5:10; ἀναστρέφεσθαι ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ, to behave oneself, 2 Corinthians 1:12; likewise εἶναι ἐν τῷ κόσμου τούτῳ, 1 John 4:17.

6. "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ" (cf. Winer's Grammar, 26): John 7:7; John 14:27 (); ; 1 Corinthians 1:21; 1 Corinthians 6:2; 1 Corinthians 11:32; 2 Corinthians 7:10; James 1:27; 1 Peter 5:9; 2 Peter 1:4; 2 Peter 2:20; 1 John 3:1, 13; 1 John 4:5; 1 John 5:19; of the aggregate of ungodly and wicked men in O. T. times, Hebrews 11:38; in Noah's time, ibid. 7; with οὗτος added, Ephesians 2:2 (on which see αἰών, 3); εἶναι ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου and ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου τούτου (see εἰμί, V. 3rd.), John 8:23; John 15:19; John 17:14, 16; 1 John 4:5;λαλεῖν ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου, to speak in accordance with the world's character and mode of thinking, 1 John 4:5; ὁ ἄρχων τοῦ κόσμου τούτου, i. e. the devil, John 12:31; John 14:30; John 16:11; ὁ ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ he that is operative in the world (also of the devil), 1 John 4:4; τό πνεῦμα τοῦ κόσμου

b. of all mankind, but especially of believers, as the object of God’s love J 3:16, 17c; 6:33, 51; 12:47.

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 446.

Continued :

1 John 2:2-He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 2:15-17-Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. 16 For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.

1 John 4:3-6- but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5 They are from the worldand therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

1 John 4:14- And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world

1 John 5:19- We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Now its very clear from the Lexicon definition and in 1 John that the cosmos/world does not mean Gods elect (that is Calvinism) not what John means in his epistle. It clearly means everyone with no exceptions in this world, all of its inhabitants who make up the ungodly multitude. It is clearly all inclusive of everyone, all, the entire world that lies under the evil one in opposition to God from the context of 1 John.

Only someone with a closed mind trapped in their dogma/doctrine would argue otherwise resulting in eisegesis( reading their own ideas into the text) rather than exegesis ( letting the text dictate ones ideas ).

We see above that the whole world lies under the evil one and its that same identical whole world in 1 John 2:2 that Jesus made PROPITIATION for which is clear from the CONTEXT in 1 John.

So if the above truth from 1 John 2:2 which is clear as to the biblical meaning is all inclusive not exclusive ( Gods elect Jew/Gentiles) which comes from ones dogma/doctrine ( calvinism) and not Scripture and specifically in 1 John makes me a non calvinist then I'm here to official renounce my association with that group.

I'm all about the TRUTH never dogma, never the doctrines of men, never to win friends, but to only uphold the Truth in Gods word from its context. And the context here is in clear opposition to the teaching of Calvinsm in 1 John. World NEVER means Jew/Gentiles in the epistle but means all of the inhabitants of the world /cosmos who are ungodly , where the lust of the flesh, the pride of life and the lust of the eyes come from and the god of this world the evil one the spirit of antichrist , the spirit of falsehoods rules and reigns in all of those inhabitants in opposition to God.

Its that world whom Christ made propitiation. Doctrine/Dogma will never cloud my mind and I will seek, search truth until my dying day and never allow any systematic theology or bias to cloud my view of Scripture.

hope this helps !!!

Your "hope this helps" about your post truly helps in demonstrating your failure to understand context, again. By God's grace for God's glory, I am sequentially segment this post to make it easier to understand context.

1. Interpretation of Holy Scripture
2. @TomL's constraint on John 3:16-17 by John 12:47
3. Christ's context for Christ's sayings recorded in John 12:47
4. Your context for Christ's sayings recorded in John 12:47
5. Christ's context of Christ's sayings recorded in John 3:16-18
6. Dogma and doctrine are importantly Truth (John 14:6)

1. Interpretation of Holy Scripture
   
   You inherit the writings of other people as your own writings when you exalt those people's writings as authority in your posts.
   
   Your heart's treasure securely holds to that which you call "The Golden Rule of Interpretation".
   
   
   When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.
   ​
   
   That's a very high authoritative bar that you set there, civic, your "Golden Rule of Interpretation".
   
   Your fleshly mind's "common sense" is all that you need, and you can make "plain sense of Scripture" exclusively using your "common sense" before you are born of God according to your cumulative writings.
   
   Now, the time has come to compare and contrast your dearly held belief with the Apostle Peter's words:
   

   The Fleshly Traditions of Men		Holy Scripture
   know this first of all, that every prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for it matters not whether prophecy was made by an act of human will, or men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God (2 civic 1:20-21)		know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God (2 Peter 1:20-21)

   
   Peter and I are God-centered.
   
   You and TomL are man-centered.
   
2. @TomL's constraint on John 3:16-17 by John 12:47
   
   TomL caused himself to repeatedly preach that John 12:47 dictates the meaning of the word world in John 3:16-17; on the other hand, God caused me to proclaim that the word world in John 3:18 is contextually contiguously relevant in the same dialog as John 3:16-17 as compared to the temporally distant dialog in John 12:47.
   
3. Christ's context for Christ's sayings recorded in John 12:47
   
   Here is the precious and pure Word of God "If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 12:47).
   
   Lord and God Jesus Christ saves each one from the wrath of God who believes in the Son whom the Father has sent; in contrast, every one goes to hell who does not believe in Jesus (John 7:21-27).
   
   The Son says "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day" (John 6:39).
   
   There are two contexts regarding saved persons and unsaved people within the 29 words issued by Jesus recorded in John 12:47:
   

   Clause		Context
   If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him		unsaved people / all unbelievers
   for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world		saved people (now and then) / current believers and future believers

   
   We Christians hear Christ clearly convey that the world contextually includes exclusively current believers and future believers, that is, saved people, as per His loving "If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 12:47).
   
4. Your context for Christ's sayings recorded in John 12:47
   
   Of the word "world" in John 12:47, your heart assigned the definition of "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ" in a fashion similar to TomL.
   
   

   Clause		Context
   If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him		unsaved people / all unbelievers
   for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world		the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[

   
   The implications of your "the world" in John 12:47 are multiple.
   
   According to your Free-willian Philosophy, the following represents fleshly people, dead in sin unbelievers:
   • if Bob chooses to believe in Christ, then God must profit Bob with eternal life.
   • if Alice chooses to believe not in Christ, then God must punish Alice with eternal damnation.
   • The conclusion: the causative factor for a person being rewarded with eternal life is whether a person “chooses to believe in Christ”.
   So man is the cause of eternal life because man goes to hell without man choosing to believe in Christ.
   
   On to another dark consequence of your Free-willian Philosophy "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[" is that your heart's treasure renders Christ's death an abject failure for every unbeliever who dies as an unbeliever because Christ failed to save that saved unbeliever (see John 12:47 and the Alice example above).
   
   Your belief in failure atonement results in Christ being a false prophet because Jesus fails to save all that he died to save.
   
   The context around John 12:47 is relevant.
   
   Your heart set "the world" equal to "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[", so your heart equivocates "the world" into a thing of "all unbelievers who call in their own initiative speaking their self-willed change of heart from unbeliever to believer in Me".
   
   Your adulteration of the Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
   

   The word of civic		The Word of God
   If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save any unbeliever who calls in his own initiative speaking his self-willed change of heart from unbeliever to believer in Me. (civic 12:47)		If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. 49 “For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. (John 12:47-49)

   And so go your adulterations of precious and Holy Word of God again and again and again.
   
   See your heart has your "the world" of unbelievers being superior to Jesus because your unbelievers speak on their own initiative in contrast to Jesus who says "I did not speak on My own initiative" (John 12:49).
   
   A deeper sinister darkness lurks in your context for John 12:47. Both Bob and Alice start off as part of the world, so even believer Bob is unsaved because unbeliever Alice is unsaved which causes the entirety of the world to be unsaved from the wrath of God. Do not be deceived, Lord Jesus said "to save the world" in John 12:47 - "the world" is an aggregate phrase indicating the entire world.
   
   God caused me to address TomL's specific Free-willian Philosophical point, and you injected yourself as TomL's champion regarding TomL's Free-willian Philosophy, so you are one who does not receive Christ's sayings (John 12:48 - notice John 12:47 which is directly adjacent to John 12:48).
   
5. Christ's context of Christ's sayings recorded in John 3:16-18
   
   Let's look at Jesus' term the world in a directly adjacent critical text to John 3:16-17:
   
   
   16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every one believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
   (John 3:17-18)
   ​
   
   Clearly, unbelievers of the world are judged as their default state of being as per Christ recorded in John 3:18 (which is directly adjacent to John 3:16-17 instead of way over to John 12:47 that fails as a proof text for your Free-willian Philosophy as demonstrated above).
   
   The dead in sin must be born of God in order to righteously perceive King Jesus of the Kingdom of God (John 3:3); furthermore, Lord Jesus Christ establishes the ordained order of salvation in John chapter 3 with John 3:3 preceding John 3:16 in the same dialog.
   
   Your Free-willian Philosophy holds that the dead in sin cause themselves to be born of God (have life in Christ), so your Free-willian Philosophy is false and in a state of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33) because the dead in sin do not cause themselves to be born of God (have life in Christ).
   
   The word "world" in John 3:16 is the population of persons who currently are or in the future will be imparted the work of God unto salvation that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).
   
6. Dogma is important Truth (John 14:6)
   
   Your heart discounts the concept of dogma with your words "I'm all about the TRUTH never dogma".
   
   Now while they were passing through the cities, they were delivering the dogma which had been decided upon by the apostles and elders who were in Jerusalem, for them to observe (Acts 16:4).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE FAITH!!!

 

[Kermos]

Duh you are positing the doctrine of gnostics which is contrary to the word of God and you want to talk about man centered theology?

Laughable






Um

John 12:47–48 (NASB 2020) — 47 If anyone hears My teachings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 The one who rejects Me and does not accept My teachings has one who judges him: the word which I spoke. That will judge him on the last day.

Makes it clear unbelievers are in view.

These unbelievers, rejectors of Christ are not judged at that time because Christ did not come to judge the world
'
Those with an honest desire for truth should have no problem associating those unbelievers with the world

Those looking to support an assumed theology however will stumble over this obvious conclusion

Your free-willian interpretation about John 12:47 fails to supply context of the word "world" in John 3:3-21, and the post to which you replied establishes this Truth (John 14:6), so God is causing me to return to John 3:3-21 with you right now.

Of John 3:3-21, your spirit prophecies:

Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not CAUSE YOURSELF TO believe, how will you CAUSE YOURSELF TO believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven EXCEPT MEN WHO JUDGE RIGHT IN THEIR OWN INITIATIVE TO BELIEVE IN ME AND He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever IS UNBORN OF GOD CHOOSING TO BELIEVE will have BORN THIS UNBORN WHOEVER'S SELF INTO eternal life.
16 For God so loved EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever LOVES THE DARKNESS RATHER THAN THE LIGHT CHOOSING TO BELIEVE in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME to judge EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME, but that EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME might be saved through Him. 18 He who FORCED GOD TO CAUSE HIMSELF TO BE BORN AGAIN BECAUSE OF HIS SELF-WILLED BELIEVING in Him is not judged; he who does not CHOOSE TO believe has been judged already, because he has not CHOSEN TO BELIEVE in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him." 3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one WHO is NOT born again he can see the kingdom of God.”
4Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one WHO is born of water and the Spirit he can enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh AND THIS EVIL FLESH PLEASES GOD, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit OF NO SIGNIFICANCE. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do know EXACTLY where it comes from and EXACTLY where it is going BECAUSE YOUR CHOOSING OF ME CONTROLS YOUR BECOMING BORN OF THE SPIRIT; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
(the word of TomL (no longer the Word of God))
​

So, your spirit prophecies a very different message than the marvelous Holy Spirit inspired Word of God sayings:

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
(John 3:3-21)
​

For important detail, please see post #2,121.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE LORD JESUS!!!

 

[TomL]

Your free-willian interpretation about John 12:47 fails to supply context of the word "world" in John 3:3-21, and the post to which you replied establishes this Truth (John 14:6), so God is causing me to return to John 3:3-21 with you right now.

Of John 3:3-21, your spirit prophecies:

​

Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not CAUSE YOURSELF TO believe, how will you CAUSE YOURSELF TO believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven EXCEPT MEN WHO JUDGE RIGHT IN THEIR OWN INITIATIVE TO BELIEVE IN ME AND He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever IS UNBORN OF GOD CHOOSING TO BELIEVE will have BORN THIS UNBORN WHOEVER'S SELF INTO eternal life.​

16 For God so loved EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever LOVES THE DARKNESS RATHER THAN THE LIGHT CHOOSING TO BELIEVE in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME to judge EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME, but that EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME might be saved through Him. 18 He who FORCED GOD TO CAUSE HIMSELF TO BE BORN AGAIN BECAUSE OF HIS SELF-WILLED BELIEVING in Him is not judged; he who does not CHOOSE TO believe has been judged already, because he has not CHOSEN TO BELIEVE in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”​

2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him." 3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one WHO is NOT born again he can see the kingdom of God.”​

4Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one WHO is born of water and the Spirit he can enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh AND THIS EVIL FLESH PLEASES GOD, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit OF NO SIGNIFICANCE. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do know EXACTLY where it comes from and EXACTLY where it is going BECAUSE YOUR CHOOSING OF ME CONTROLS YOUR BECOMING BORN OF THE SPIRIT; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”​

(the word of TomL (no longer the Word of God))​

​

So, your spirit prophecies a very different message than the marvelous Holy Spirit inspired Word of God sayings:

​

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”​

4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”​

9 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.​

16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”​

(John 3:3-21)​

​

For important detail, please see post #2,121.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE LORD JESUS!!!

More nonsense

Parallel texts

John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

any unbeliever is a part of the world Christ came to save

John 3:17 (KJV 1900) — 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


It's the same world Christ came to save here

The same world Christ that was the object of God's love

John 3:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The same world Christ was given for

But it seems you will not deal with the meaning of world here

and refuse to see Christ was given and died for all in the world

Instead you want to pretend I am arguing free will here rather than the extent of the atonement

It's a rather disingenuous approach as you were already informed, but it seems repetition of this

motte and bailey argument is all you have and are not capable of dealing with the argument presented

 

[TomL]

If you were strong, then you would respond to the 6 points.




Your "hope this helps" about your post truly helps in demonstrating your failure to understand context, again. By God's grace for God's glory, I am sequentially segment this post to make it easier to understand context.

1. Interpretation of Holy Scripture
2. @TomL's constraint on John 3:16-17 by John 12:47
3. Christ's context for Christ's sayings recorded in John 12:47
4. Your context for Christ's sayings recorded in John 12:47
5. Christ's context of Christ's sayings recorded in John 3:16-18
6. Dogma and doctrine are importantly Truth (John 14:6)

1. Interpretation of Holy Scripture
   
   You inherit the writings of other people as your own writings when you exalt those people's writings as authority in your posts.
   
   Your heart's treasure securely holds to that which you call "The Golden Rule of Interpretation".
   
   
   When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.​
   
   That's a very high authoritative bar that you set there, civic, your "Golden Rule of Interpretation".
   
   Your fleshly mind's "common sense" is all that you need, and you can make "plain sense of Scripture" exclusively using your "common sense" before you are born of God according to your cumulative writings.
   
   Now, the time has come to compare and contrast your dearly held belief with the Apostle Peter's words:
   

   The Fleshly Traditions of Men		Holy Scripture
   know this first of all, that every prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for it matters not whether prophecy was made by an act of human will, or men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God (2 civic 1:20-21)		know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God (2 Peter 1:20-21)

   
   Peter and I are God-centered.
   
   You and TomL are man-centered.
2. @TomL's constraint on John 3:16-17 by John 12:47
   
   TomL caused himself to repeatedly preach that John 12:47 dictates the meaning of the word world in John 3:16-17; on the other hand, God caused me to proclaim that the word world in John 3:18 is contextually contiguously relevant in the same dialog as John 3:16-17 as compared to the temporally distant dialog in John 12:47.
3. Christ's context for Christ's sayings recorded in John 12:47
   
   Here is the precious and pure Word of God "If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 12:47).
   
   Lord and God Jesus Christ saves each one from the wrath of God who believes in the Son whom the Father has sent; in contrast, every one goes to hell who does not believe in Jesus (John 7:21-27).
   
   The Son says "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day" (John 6:39).
   
   There are two contexts regarding saved persons and unsaved people within the 29 words issued by Jesus recorded in John 12:47:
   

   Clause		Context
   If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him		unsaved people / all unbelievers
   for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world		saved people (now and then) / current believers and future believers

   
   We Christians hear Christ clearly convey that the world contextually includes exclusively current believers and future believers, that is, saved people, as per His loving "If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 12:47).
4. Your context for Christ's sayings recorded in John 12:47
   
   Of the word "world" in John 12:47, your heart assigned the definition of "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ" in a fashion similar to TomL.
   
   

   Clause		Context
   If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him		unsaved people / all unbelievers
   for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world		the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[

   
   The implications of your "the world" in John 12:47 are multiple.
   
   According to your Free-willian Philosophy, the following represents fleshly people, dead in sin unbelievers:
   • if Bob chooses to believe in Christ, then God must profit Bob with eternal life.
   • if Alice chooses to believe not in Christ, then God must punish Alice with eternal damnation.
   • The conclusion: the causative factor for a person being rewarded with eternal life is whether a person “chooses to believe in Christ”.
   So man is the cause of eternal life because man goes to hell without man choosing to believe in Christ.
   
   On to another dark consequence of your Free-willian Philosophy "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[" is that your heart's treasure renders Christ's death an abject failure for every unbeliever who dies as an unbeliever because Christ failed to save that saved unbeliever (see John 12:47 and the Alice example above).
   
   Your belief in failure atonement results in Christ being a false prophet because Jesus fails to save all that he died to save.
   
   The context around John 12:47 is relevant.
   
   Your heart set "the world" equal to "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[", so your heart equivocates "the world" into a thing of "all unbelievers who call in their own initiative speaking their self-willed change of heart from unbeliever to believer in Me".
   
   Your adulteration of the Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
   

   The word of civic		The Word of God
   If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save any unbeliever who calls in his own initiative speaking his self-willed change of heart from unbeliever to believer in Me. (civic 12:47)		If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. 49 “For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. (John 12:47-49)

   And so go your adulterations of precious and Holy Word of God again and again and again.
   
   See your heart has your "the world" of unbelievers being superior to Jesus because your unbelievers speak on their own initiative in contrast to Jesus who says "I did not speak on My own initiative" (John 12:49).
   
   A deeper sinister darkness lurks in your context for John 12:47. Both Bob and Alice start off as part of the world, so even believer Bob is unsaved because unbeliever Alice is unsaved which causes the entirety of the world to be unsaved from the wrath of God. Do not be deceived, Lord Jesus said "to save the world" in John 12:47 - "the world" is an aggregate phrase indicating the entire world.
   
   God caused me to address TomL's specific Free-willian Philosophical point, and you injected yourself as TomL's champion regarding TomL's Free-willian Philosophy, so you are one who does not receive Christ's sayings (John 12:48 - notice John 12:47 which is directly adjacent to John 12:48).
5. Christ's context of Christ's sayings recorded in John 3:16-18
   
   Let's look at Jesus' term the world in a directly adjacent critical text to John 3:16-17:
   
   
   16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every one believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
   (John 3:17-18)​
   
   Clearly, unbelievers of the world are judged as their default state of being as per Christ recorded in John 3:18 (which is directly adjacent to John 3:16-17 instead of way over to John 12:47 that fails as a proof text for your Free-willian Philosophy as demonstrated above).
   
   The dead in sin must be born of God in order to righteously perceive King Jesus of the Kingdom of God (John 3:3); furthermore, Lord Jesus Christ establishes the ordained order of salvation in John chapter 3 with John 3:3 preceding John 3:16 in the same dialog.
   
   Your Free-willian Philosophy holds that the dead in sin cause themselves to be born of God (have life in Christ), so your Free-willian Philosophy is false and in a state of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33) because the dead in sin do not cause themselves to be born of God (have life in Christ).
   
   The word "world" in John 3:16 is the population of persons who currently are or in the future will be imparted the work of God unto salvation that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).
6. Dogma is important Truth (John 14:6)
   
   Your heart discounts the concept of dogma with your words "I'm all about the TRUTH never dogma".
   
   Now while they were passing through the cities, they were delivering the dogma which had been decided upon by the apostles and elders who were in Jerusalem, for them to observe (Acts 16:4).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE FAITH!!!

Mindless and endless repletion

ignoring argument

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-100460

and lexical data

of all mankind, but especially of believers, as the object of God’s love J 3:16, 17c; 6:33, 51; 12:47.

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 446.

Note the verses

John 3:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:17 (KJV 1900) — 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

As per this industry standard lexicon, it is the world which was the object of God's love. The same world Christ was given for. The same world Christ provided salvation for

Those in that world who believe will be saved those who do not believe will not be saved

The gospel is simple when one believes what is written and does not try to impose man made gnostic speculations into it

 

[TomL]

Get ready for another cut n paste of the same thing for the 100th time

Yep. He cannot address the issue, so he just repeats. It seems fealty to his man made gnostic theology will not allow him to believe scripture

 

[civic]

Mindless and endless repletion

ignoring argument

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-100460

and lexical data

of all mankind, but especially of believers, as the object of God’s love J 3:16, 17c; 6:33, 51; 12:47.

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 446.

Note the verses

John 3:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:17 (KJV 1900) — 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

As per this industry standard lexicon, it is the world which was the object of God's love. The same world Christ was given for. The same world Christ provided salvation for

Those in that world who believe will be saved those who do not believe will not be saved

The gospel is simple when one believes what is written and does not try to impose man made gnostic speculations into it

Yes it makes their determinism nothing but a fallacy. It shows the error of their ways with the false doctrines of tulip they espouse.

 

[civic]

Your free-willian interpretation about John 12:47 fails to supply context of the word "world" in John 3:3-21, and the post to which you replied establishes this Truth (John 14:6), so God is causing me to return to John 3:3-21 with you right now.

Of John 3:3-21, your spirit prophecies:

​

Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not CAUSE YOURSELF TO believe, how will you CAUSE YOURSELF TO believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven EXCEPT MEN WHO JUDGE RIGHT IN THEIR OWN INITIATIVE TO BELIEVE IN ME AND He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever IS UNBORN OF GOD CHOOSING TO BELIEVE will have BORN THIS UNBORN WHOEVER'S SELF INTO eternal life.​

16 For God so loved EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever LOVES THE DARKNESS RATHER THAN THE LIGHT CHOOSING TO BELIEVE in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME to judge EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME, but that EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME might be saved through Him. 18 He who FORCED GOD TO CAUSE HIMSELF TO BE BORN AGAIN BECAUSE OF HIS SELF-WILLED BELIEVING in Him is not judged; he who does not CHOOSE TO believe has been judged already, because he has not CHOSEN TO BELIEVE in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”​

2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him." 3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one WHO is NOT born again he can see the kingdom of God.”​

4Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one WHO is born of water and the Spirit he can enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh AND THIS EVIL FLESH PLEASES GOD, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit OF NO SIGNIFICANCE. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do know EXACTLY where it comes from and EXACTLY where it is going BECAUSE YOUR CHOOSING OF ME CONTROLS YOUR BECOMING BORN OF THE SPIRIT; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”​

(the word of TomL (no longer the Word of God))​

​

So, your spirit prophecies a very different message than the marvelous Holy Spirit inspired Word of God sayings:

​

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”​

4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”​

9 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.​

16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”​

(John 3:3-21)​

​

For important detail, please see post #2,121.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE LORD JESUS!!!

The Atonement has no limits, you have a false gospel and make Jesus and the Apostles liars.

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Hebrews 2:9
But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

Titus 3:4
But when the kindness and the love of mankind of God our Savior appeared

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Corinthians 5:14
For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.

Loraine Boettner the world renown Calvinist theologian has stated on p. 59 of his book, The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination,

"prove any one of them true and all of the others will follow as logical and necessary parts of the system. Prove any one of them false and the whole system must be abandoned."

1)I have already proven irresistible grace is not true with Acts 7:51

2)I have proven the atonement is not limited- John 1:20, 3:16, 1 Tim 2:4-6, 2 Pet 3:9 and 1 John 2:2

3)I have proven that election is not unconditional- whosoever will may come, that means all, everyone from numerous passages . John 1:12 John 3:16

Conclusion : tulip is a false gospel

hope this helps !!!

 

[Kermos]

You failed to show any distortions
You are simply repeating your same old talking points which ignore rebuttal

For example

Kermos said:



The people failed to understand, just like you, that Lord Jesus removed the work of man from saving belief/faith with the Lord’s marvelous sayings of “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29).


There you go with your unsupported assumptions

The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

In context its meaning is that which God requires of man

Repeating the same failed claims changes nothing

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Jesus tells them there is something they must do to obtain the food which last for eternal life

in context it is to believe on him

But you make jesus a liar and say there is nothing to do

John 6:35–36 (NASB 2020) — 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe.

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

Again this establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God

John 6:29 (NASB 2020) — 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Jesus tells them they must believe

John 6:30 (NASB 2020) — 30 So they said to Him, “What then are You doing as a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work are You performing?

The jew understand him to be telling them they must believe.

An understanding confirmed by Christ as per verse 35 above

They must believe

An understanding confirmed by scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

even Calvinist commentator agree with this obvious reading


John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)



This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.



Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.

What precisely is it that God waits for us to do, and will be satisfied with our doing? To which Jesus, always ready to meet the sincere inquirer, gives the explicit answer (ver. 29) τοῦτό ἐστι … ἐκεῖνος. If God has sent a messenger it is because there is need of such interposition, and the first duty must be to listen believingly to this messenger.

Marcus Dods, The Gospel of St. John (New York: George H. Doran Company, n.d.), 752.

The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.

Even the notes to the Geneva bible refute you


Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.


Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.

Mindlessly repeating your view does not negate what the scripture clearly shows

and

Again Christs choice of his apostles

His disciples were given to him by the Father.

John 17:6–12 (NASB 2020) — 6 “I have revealed Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have followed Your word.

From them he chose 12 to be apostles

Luke 6:13–16 (ESV) — 13 And when day came, he called his disciples and chose from them twelve, whom he named apostles: 14 Simon, whom he named Peter, and Andrew his brother, and James and John, and Philip, and Bartholomew, 15 and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot, 16 and Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.

John 6:70 (ESV) — 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”

John 13:18 (UASV) — 18 I do not speak of all of you. I know the ones I have chosen; but it is that the Scripture may be fulfilled, ‘He who eats My bread has lifted up his heel against Me.’

clearly Christ chose his apostles

Ye have not chosen me. The word here translated chosen is that from which is derived the word elect, and means the same thing. It is frequently thus translated, Mar. 13:20; Mat. 24:22, 24, 31; Col. 3:12. It refers here, doubtless, to his choosing or electing them to be apostles. He says that it was not because they had chosen him to be their teacher and guide, but because he had designated them to be his apostles. See Jn. 6:70; also Mat. 4:18–22.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 341.

consider the various choices here

Matthew 22:1–14 (ESV) — 1 And again Jesus spoke to them in parables, saying, 2 “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son, 3 and sent his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding feast, but they would not come. 4 Again he sent other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner, my oxen and my fat calves have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast.” ’ 5 But they paid no attention and went off, one to his farm, another to his business, 6 while the rest seized his servants, treated them shamefully, and killed them. 7 The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. 8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding feast is ready, but those invited were not worthy. 9 Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.’ 10 And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests. 11 “But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. 12 And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”


Think of how many times passages like John 15:16 (“You did not choose me; I chose you…”) are used as proof texts for the Calvinistic belief of individual election to salvation when clearly Jesus is speaking to His servants who are being prepared to take the invitation to the rest of the world. They are using Divine Choice #1 as proof for their belief about Divine Choice #3.



Divine Choice #1: The choice of His servants, who were given the task of sending out the invitation.

Divine Choice #2: The choice to send the invitation first to His own and then to all others.

Divine Choice #3: The choice to allow only those clothed in proper wedding garments to enter the feast.

In John 15:16 we have the choice of the apostles

And the bible does tell men to choose who they will serve

Joshua 24:15–25 (KJV 1900) — 15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. 16 And the people answered and said, God forbid that we should forsake the LORD, to serve other gods; 17 For the LORD our God, he it is that brought us up and our fathers out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage, and which did those great signs in our sight, and preserved us in all the way wherein we went, and among all the people through whom we passed: 18 And the LORD drave out from before us all the people, even the Amorites which dwelt in the land: therefore will we also serve the LORD; for he is our God. 19 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins. 20 If ye forsake the LORD, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, after that he hath done you good. 21 And the people said unto Joshua, Nay; but we will serve the LORD. 22 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the LORD, to serve him. And they said, We are witnesses. 23 Now therefore put away, said he, the strange gods which are among you, and incline your heart unto the LORD God of Israel. 24 And the people said unto Joshua, The LORD our God will we serve, and his voice will we obey. 25 So Joshua made a covenant with the people that day, and set them a statute and an ordinance in Shechem.

You have distortion and destruction of the Word of God in your heart, and here is the proof.

Instrumental cause of course Just like the verse indicates

John 1:12 (ESV) — 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

1:12 The phrase believe in His name occurs three times in the Gospel of John (1:12; 2:23; 3:18). Name does not refer to the term by which He is called, but to what His name stands for—the Lord is salvation (Ex. 3:14, 15). In this context, the phrase means to believe that Jesus is the Word, the life, and the Light—that is, He is the Christ, the Son of God (20:31). To them He gave the right refers to the legitimate entitlement to the position of children of God. None of us was naturally a child of God. We were by nature children of wrath and condemned apart from Christ. Imagine being a pauper and then being given the right to inherit the riches of a king and the position of royalty. By believing, undeserving sinners can become full members of God’s family.

1:13 born … of God: This new spiritual birth is not of blood, that is, by physical generation or by parents. Nor is the new birth of the will of the flesh, that is, by personal effort. Neither is the birth of the will of man, that is, something accomplished by human effort. The new birth is the work of God alone. It is a gift to be received (4:10, 14), not a reward achieved by individual effort. The new birth is based on relationship with Christ, not personal position. The relationship, however, proceeds from the position of Christ as the mediator. Christ is life (1:4; 14:6). Those who trust Him are born of God, meaning they are given spiritual life.1

1 Earl D. Radmacher, Ronald Barclay Allen, and H. Wayne House, Nelson’s New Illustrated Bible Commentary (Nashville: T. Nelson Publishers, 1999), 1311.

CHILDREN OF GOD. Persons in this category are only those who of the fallen race are regenerated as a result of faith in Christ1

1 Merrill F. Unger, “Children of God,” ed. R.K. Harrison, The New Unger’s Bible Dictionary (Chicago: Moody Press, 1988).


The Means of Regeneration

God regenerates (John 1:13) according to His will (James 1:18) through the Holy Spirit (John 3:5) when a person believes (1:12) the Gospel as revealed in the Word (1 Pet. 1:23).

Ryrie’s basic theology

Regeneration is an act of God, not a cooperative effort between God and man. That is not to say, however, that faith is unnecessary in salvation. It may be suggested that although regeneration and faith are distinct, they occur simultaneously. The two are set side by side in John 1:12–13. In John 1:12, at the moment of receiving Christ (believing), the person becomes a child of God; in John 1:13 it indicates that at that very moment the persons have been born of God. Surely there is a mystery here that surpasses human comprehension.

Moody’s handbook of theology

One becomes a child of God is born again by faith

Galatians 3:26 (KJV 1900) — 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.






Do you have anything bides your opinion to offer

Regeneration takes one from death to life and the bible is clear this happens upon faith

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 5:24–25 (KJV 1900) — 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

scripture does not support you



Again we saw scripture does not support you

Galatians 3:26 (KJV 1900) — 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.


Nothing in the text states God causes men to receive him

To believe is man's responsibility


to the gentiles it was stated

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
to the Jew having crucified Christ

Acts 2:37–38 (KJV 1900) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Never were they corrected

Not only do you failure to interpret the context correctly but you ignore the whole council of God

to propagate your false doctrine.



Yet another passage you mishandle trying to justify your theology rather than understanding the text

Don't leave out verse 27

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Calvinists tend toward isolating verses from their context do they can read their theology into the text


Kermos said:



The people failed to understand, just like you, that Lord Jesus removed the work of man from saving belief/faith with the Lord’s marvelous sayings of “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (John 6:29).


There you go with your unsupported assumptions


There you go with your unsupported assumptions

The phrase work of God has been defined for us by verse 28

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

In context its meaning is that which God requires of man

Repeating the same failed claims changes nothing

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

Jesus tells them there is something they must do to obtain the food which last for eternal life

in context it is to believe on him

John 6:35–36 (NASB 2020) — 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. 36 But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe.

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

Again this establishes the meaning of the phrase the work of God as that which is required by God

John 6:29 (NASB 2020) — 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Jesus tells them they must believe

John 6:30 (NASB 2020) — 30 So they said to Him, “What then are You doing as a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work are You performing?

The jew understand him to be telling them they must believe.

An understanding confirmed by Christ as per verse 35 above

They must believe

An understanding confirmed by scripture

Acts 16:30–31 (NASB 2020) — 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

even Calvinist commentators agree with this obvious reading


John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)

This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

Even the notes to the Geneva bible refute you


Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.


Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.

other voices


Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.

What precisely is it that God waits for us to do, and will be satisfied with our doing? To which Jesus, always ready to meet the sincere inquirer, gives the explicit answer (ver. 29) τοῦτό ἐστι … ἐκεῖνος. If God has sent a messenger it is because there is need of such interposition, and the first duty must be to listen believingly to this messenger.

Marcus Dods, The Gospel of St. John (New York: George H. Doran Company, n.d.), 752.

The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.



Mindlessly repeating your view does not negate what the scripture clearly shows






John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)



This is the work of God. This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth, Ro. 10:4.11 Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.



Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.



The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.



Messianic work.

28. τί ποιῶμεν …; What must we do (v. 5) that we may work? Perhaps they understood Him to mean that they must earn what they desire; certainly they see that Christ’s words have a moral meaning; they must do the works required by God. But how?

29. τὸ ἔργον. They probably thought of works of the law, tithes, sacrifices, &c. He tells them of one work, one moral act, from which all the rest derive their value, continuous belief (πιστεύητε, not πιστεύσητε) in Him whom God has sent. Comp. Acts 16:31. On ἵνα and ἀπέστειλεν see on 1:8, 33, 4:47, 17:3.1

1 A. Plummer, The Gospel according to S. John (Cambridge Greek Testament for Schools and Colleges; Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1896), 155.



τὰ ἔργα τοῦ θεοῦ must not be taken to mean ‘the works which God works,’ but, as in Jer. 48:10 (31:10 LXX): 1 Cor. 15:58, the works well pleasing to God.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 760–761.



Ἀπεκρίθη … καὶ εἶπεν 1:21, 50; 2:18. Jesus contrasts the one “work” that God actually requires (τὸ ἔργον τοῦ θεοῦ)—namely (epex. ἵνα), constant belief (πιστεύητε, pres. subjunc.) in his accredited messenger—with the many “works” the Jews imagined God demanded11 Murray J. Harris, John (Exegetical Guide to the Greek New Testament; B&H Academic, 2015), 131.




The Lord deals with the error and the truth in the question which was put to Him. In the one work which God requires of man and man owes to God, all fragmentary and partial works are included. It is a true work as answering to man’s will, but it issues in that which is not a work. This is the work of God, that ye believe on … Comp. 1 John 3:23 (his commandment).11 Brooke Foss Westcott and Arthur Westcott, eds., The Gospel according to St. John Introduction and Notes on the Authorized Version (Classic Commentaries on the Greek New Testament; London: J. Murray, 1908), 101.



Yeshua-Jesus is telling them how to receive eternal life. The people then ask Yeshua-Jesus, [57]“What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” The response of the people is referring to how they can work and receive eternal life which is salvation. Yeshua-Jesus sets the record straight by answering, [58]“This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” In other words, Yeshua-Jesus tells them that if they want to do the works of God for eternal life then believe in him who God sent. That is the work needed for salvation, believe him, Yeshua-Jesus. Yeshua-Jesus did not tell them that the works of God are only for those who are chosen or elected. Then the people, they want to see a sign so that they can believe in him.



John 6:30 (KJV 1900) — 30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee?



Garza, Dr. Al. Calvinism Challenged: How The Hebrew Bible, Jewish Sources, Jesus, The Apostles and Paul Refute Calvinism. . Sefer Press Publishing. Kindle Edition.

But all one need do to see your errolr is consifer

You basically argue one muct receive Christ in the sense of him indwelling to recieve that right

for christ in you is regeneration

So you have therm receiving this before even having the right to


an absolute absurdity you do not address


So you offer nothing but your own opinion and a refusal to be corrected by scripture, lexical data or expert Greek commentary

WOW! That's two posts in a row that you posted something accurate, TomL, congratulations, that "Instrumental cause of course Just like the verse indicates" is marvelous!

You posted "Instrumental cause of course Just like the verse indicates" regarding both of John 1:12 and the following:

According to your Free-willian Prophecy:

• if Bob chooses to receive Christ, then God births Bob anew.
• if Alice chooses to receive not Christ, then God births not Alice anew.
• The conclusion: the causative factor for a person being born of God is whether a person "chooses to receive Christ".

so your posting of "Instrumental cause of course Just like the verse indicates" absolutely affirms that the Free-willian Philosophy results in a person, who chooses to receive Christ, is that person forcing God to cause that person to be born of God.

Whether "Instrumental" instead of "inconsequential" or "Instrumental" instead of "insignificant" or "Instrumental" instead of "incidental" or whatever, it matters not because the post has the word "Instrumental" right where it matters. TomL, your self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10) failed to avoid posting the phrase "Instrumental cause".

There are NO coincidences because Lord and God Jesus Christ is in control, so I acknowledge this One True Almighty God caused you, TomL, to post the very thing that you, TomL, didn't want to post thus showing the folly of the rest of your own post, TomL. Praise be to the Truth (John 14:6)!

According to the Apostle John, first God births man anew as the foundational beginning with:

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him, but as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God
(John 1:10-13)
​

and John says God expands from birthing man anew into causing man to receive and to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

This writing of John's accords with Lord Jesus saying “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21).

continued to post #2,958

 

[Kermos]

continued from post #2,957

As I look farther into your post, @TomL,, I find you prophesying falsely about the Living God Jesus Christ (1 John 4:1) based on your God Calvin, whose word you take up as your own word not just once but you treasure your God Calvin's word so much that you take up your God Calvin's word twice in your post after you repeated your God Calvin's word again and again and again in a plurality of posts, with "People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us" (the word of Calvinist TomL) against the Word of God “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) which arrives at your adulteration “This is the NOT work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent[/b]” (the word of Calvinist TomL).

Neither God nor God's messengers states a man controls the belief of the man in order to cause the man to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent in any of the Holy Scripture that you cited or quoted, so your prophecy is false; moreover, all your gods, such as your God Calvin, certainly fail to overturn the Word of God!

For example, in these passages, you conjure up a man-centered belief structure based on the word of man instead of the Word of God, just like you do with John 6:28-29, instead of God's messenger's Righteous response that saving belief be in the hearer:

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Acts 2:37–38 (KJV 1900) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
​

Both believe and repent are works of God in man, and God's messengers say absolutely nothing different than belief is a work of God.

Repentance Defined​

THESE THREE QUESTIONS GET ANSWERED​

• What is repentance?
• Who controls repentance?
• How does a person repent?

LINGUISTIC DEFiNITION​

Let us dig into the word "repent" which means "think differently afterwards". After we believers are born from above by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3), and in like manner given the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). The Greek word metanoeó is the English word "repent" in Matthew 4:17. Let us obtain the definition of "repent".

Repent: think differently afterwards

metanoéō (from 3326 /metá, "changed after being with" and 3539 /noiéō, "think") – properly, "think differently after," "after a change of mind"; to repent (literally, "think differently afterwards") (def from 3340. metanoeó HELPS Word-studies section).
​

The word "repent" does not mean "I change my mind" as asserted by too many people. Try reciting the words of Jesus, where He is commanding the people in Matthew 4:17, except, first, replace the word "repent" with "I change my mind", then, second, replace the word "repent" with "think differently afterwards". God does not change (Malachi 3:6), so this One True God Jesus commands repent.

Godly sorrow brings "thinking differently afterward" leading to salvation (2 Corinthians 7:10, so God's power generates this sorrow within the believers hence God calls it "Godly sorrow" thus illuminating and magnifying sin (Romans 5:20).

FIRST BIBLICAL CiTATION FOR REPENTANCE - A DEEP EXAMINATION​

Here is the Christian teaching of 2 Corinthians 7:8-10. The passage (from the NASB which explicitly states that the NASB translators add bracketed words for clarity - so I have no problem removing the bracketed words from the NASB - but this is verbatim from the NASB):

1. For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it - [for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while -
2. I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [the point of] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us.
3. For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.

Paul wrote a letter that exposed the Corinthian problem, see "I caused you sorrow by my letter" in verse 8.

As Paul writes further (in verse 9), the Apostle narrows the focus with "for you were made sorrowful according to God"; moreover, the Greek of ἐλυπήθητε γὰρ κατὰ Θεόν agrees with "for you were made sorrowful according to God". "ἐλυπήθητε" means "you grieved"/"you were made sorrowful", and "γὰρ" means "for", and "κατὰ" means "down"/"against"/"according to", and "Θεόν" means "God".

Paul does not leave it there, NO, rather Paul repeats himself in verse 10 to make it clear - in Jewish fashion of repeating a point for emphasis - Paul makes it clear in no uncertain terms "the sorrow that is according to God produces a repentance without regret, to salvation". That is Paul driving the Power of God exclusive role in man's salvation point home!

NOTICE THE KEYWORDS OF "ACCORDING TO GOD".

That sorrow, that repentance, is not of man's conjuring. See the keywords and absolute concept of "according to God"!

The scripture is devoid of "sorrow that is according to your free will" or "your free will to repent" or any indication about such a notion as man's free-will choice toward God.

The Apostle wrote "the sorrow that is according to God produces thinking differently afterward without regret" (2 Corinthians 7:10).

SCRIPTURAL CITATIONS ABOUT THE SOURCE OF REPENTANCE​

BIBLE CITATION: Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? (Romans 2:4).

Notice that rebuke of people that despise repentance being from God!

BIBLE CITATION: When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." (Acts 11:18)

See that God grants repentance as testified by the disciples in Acts 11:18.

BIBLE CITATION: with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, (2 Timothy 2:25)

Paul testifies that God grants "thinking different afterwards" in 2 Timothy 2:25.

THE THREE QUESTIONS ANSWERED​

God grants repentance into people, as it is written; on the other hand, there is complete absence and silence in scripture for repentance as a work conjured up by man nor by man's "free will" nor "choice" nor "ability".

God grants repentance, and God acts for God's glory! Praise be to the Living God!

The Apostle Paul declared that the faith/belief mentioned in Galatians 3:26 is the work of God with:

by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work
(Ephesians 2:8-10)
​

so Paul says God causes man to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

And Paul is in agreement with the Apostle John who says that man's belief/faith is caused by the Father as a result of God birthing man anew with:

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him, but as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God
(John 1:10-13)
​

so John says God causes man to receive and to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

John started very broad in John 1:10 until John finished very narrowly in John 1:13 with God being the cause of "born" (John 1:13) and "believe" (John 1:12) and "children" (John 1:12) and "received" (John 1:12) for every person regenerated by God and this does not include every person in the "world".

And both Apostles are in accord with the Lord Jesus who says man believing in Jesus is the work of Almighty God with:

This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent
(John 6:29)
​

so for any person to claim that man manipulates his own belief to point at Jesus - then that man is anti-truth.

You are out of accord with all these wonderful Holy Scriptures of Ephesians 2:8-10, John 1:10-13, John 3:3-21, and John 6:29 because you believe:

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him, but as many as WORKED THE FIRST STEP TO GRAB HOLY KING Him, to them He ALLOWED THEIR SECOND STEP TO CAUSE THEMSELVES to become children of God, even to those who AS THEIR THIRD STEP CHOSE IN THEIR OWN SELF-WILL TO believe in His name, who were AS THE FOURTH STEP born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God BECAUSE OF THE FIRST STEP AND THE THIRD STEP
(the culmination of TomL's heart treasure (Matthew 15:16-19))
​

And, of John 3:3-21, your spirit prophecies:

Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not CAUSE YOURSELF TO believe, how will you CAUSE YOURSELF TO believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven EXCEPT MEN WHO JUDGE RIGHT IN THEIR OWN INITIATIVE TO BELIEVE IN ME AND He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever IS UNBORN OF GOD CHOOSING TO BELIEVE will have BORN THIS UNBORN WHOEVER'S SELF INTO eternal life.
16 For God so loved EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever LOVES THE DARKNESS RATHER THAN THE LIGHT CHOOSING TO BELIEVE in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME to judge EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME, but that EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME might be saved through Him. 18 He who FORCED GOD TO CAUSE HIMSELF TO BE BORN AGAIN BECAUSE OF HIS SELF-WILLED BELIEVING in Him is not judged; he who does not CHOOSE TO believe has been judged already, because he has not CHOSEN TO BELIEVE in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him." 3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one WHO is NOT born again he can see the kingdom of God.”
4Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one WHO is born of water and the Spirit he can enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh AND THIS EVIL FLESH PLEASES GOD, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit OF NO SIGNIFICANCE. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do know EXACTLY where it comes from and EXACTLY where it is going BECAUSE YOUR CHOOSING OF ME CONTROLS YOUR BECOMING BORN OF THE SPIRIT; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
(the word of TomL (no longer the Word of God))
​

So, your spirit prophecies a very different message than the Holy Spirit this Word of God marvelous sayings:

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
(John 3:3-21)
​

You embrace "other voices" (your words) than the Voice of God. You love stranger's voices such as Vincent, Dods, and Alford whose self-willed word is "The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent." (as preached by TomL, Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761), so your Lord Alford tells the lies of the devil about Lord Jesus Christ's pure, clear and precise Voice of God "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) which, by extension of you taking your Lord Alford's word as your own word, means that you do the same as your idol Alford.

Lord Jesus says "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber. But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep. To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers" (John 10:1-5).

No portion of Joshua chapter 24 mentions God imparting man the ability to choose toward God, unless you are using the faulty book of Free-willians 24:15 as shown in the following paragraph.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The tradition of man		The Word of God
If it is evil in your sight to choose to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living, or the LORD by the ability God gave you to choose the One True God; but as for me and my house, we choose to serve the LORD. (TomL 24:15)		If it is evil in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. (Joshua 24:15)

so your heart preaches your distorted sovereignty of man eliminating Christ's Sovereignty of God, and so go your adulterations of the Holy Scripture again and again and again.

The only way for you free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for them to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

Your heart's spirit is proven to make false statements about God and man, and your own interpretation is confusion. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE RIGHTEOUS ONE JESUS CHRIST!!!

 

[civic]

You have distortion and destruction of the Word of God in your heart, and here is the proof.



WOW! That's two posts in a row that you posted something accurate, TomL, congratulations, that "Instrumental cause of course Just like the verse indicates" is marvelous!

You posted "Instrumental cause of course Just like the verse indicates" regarding both of John 1:12 and the following:

​

According to your Free-willian Prophecy:​

• if Bob chooses to receive Christ, then God births Bob anew.
• if Alice chooses to receive not Christ, then God births not Alice anew.
• The conclusion: the causative factor for a person being born of God is whether a person "chooses to receive Christ".

so your posting of "Instrumental cause of course Just like the verse indicates" absolutely affirms that the Free-willian Philosophy results in a person, who chooses to receive Christ, is that person forcing God to cause that person to be born of God.

Whether "Instrumental" instead of "inconsequential" or "Instrumental" instead of "insignificant" or "Instrumental" instead of "incidental" or whatever, it matters not because the post has the word "Instrumental" right where it matters. TomL, your self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10) failed to avoid posting the phrase "Instrumental cause".

There are NO coincidences because Lord and God Jesus Christ is in control, so I acknowledge this One True Almighty God caused you, TomL, to post the very thing that you, TomL, didn't want to post thus showing the folly of the rest of your own post, TomL. Praise be to the Truth (John 14:6)!

According to the Apostle John, first God births man anew as the foundational beginning with:

​

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him, but as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God​

(John 1:10-13)​

​

and John says God expands from birthing man anew into causing man to receive and to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

This writing of John's accords with Lord Jesus saying “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21).

continued to post #2,958

You have distortion and destruction of the Word of God in your heart, and here is the proof.

The 66 books of the Bible from cover to cover expose your errors and the teachings of man just like Jesus exposed with the same religious Pharisees.

 

[TomL]

continued from post #2,957

As I look farther into your post, @TomL,, I find you prophesying falsely about the Living God Jesus Christ (1 John 4:1) based on your God Calvin, whose word you take up as your own word not just once but you treasure your God Calvin's word so much that you take up your God Calvin's word twice in your post after you repeated your God Calvin's word again and again and again in a plurality of posts, with "People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us" (the word of Calvinist TomL) against the Word of God “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) which arrives at your adulteration “This is the NOT work of God BUT THIS IS THE WORK OF MAN, that you believe in Him whom He has sent[/b]” (the word of Calvinist TomL).

Neither God nor God's messengers states a man controls the belief of the man in order to cause the man to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent in any of the Holy Scripture that you cited or quoted, so your prophecy is false; moreover, all your gods, such as your God Calvin, certainly fail to overturn the Word of God!

For example, in these passages, you conjure up a man-centered belief structure based on the word of man instead of the Word of God, just like you do with John 6:28-29, instead of God's messenger's Righteous response that saving belief be in the hearer:

​

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.​

​

Acts 2:37–38 (KJV 1900) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.​

​

Both believe and repent are works of God in man, and God's messengers say absolutely nothing different than belief is a work of God.

Repentance Defined​

THESE THREE QUESTIONS GET ANSWERED​

• What is repentance?
• Who controls repentance?
• How does a person repent?

LINGUISTIC DEFiNITION​

Let us dig into the word "repent" which means "think differently afterwards". After we believers are born from above by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3), and in like manner given the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). The Greek word metanoeó is the English word "repent" in Matthew 4:17. Let us obtain the definition of "repent".

Repent: think differently afterwards

​

metanoéō (from 3326 /metá, "changed after being with" and 3539 /noiéō, "think") – properly, "think differently after," "after a change of mind"; to repent (literally, "think differently afterwards") (def from 3340. metanoeó HELPS Word-studies section).​

​

The word "repent" does not mean "I change my mind" as asserted by too many people. Try reciting the words of Jesus, where He is commanding the people in Matthew 4:17, except, first, replace the word "repent" with "I change my mind", then, second, replace the word "repent" with "think differently afterwards". God does not change (Malachi 3:6), so this One True God Jesus commands repent.

Godly sorrow brings "thinking differently afterward" leading to salvation (2 Corinthians 7:10, so God's power generates this sorrow within the believers hence God calls it "Godly sorrow" thus illuminating and magnifying sin (Romans 5:20).

FIRST BIBLICAL CiTATION FOR REPENTANCE - A DEEP EXAMINATION​

Here is the Christian teaching of 2 Corinthians 7:8-10. The passage (from the NASB which explicitly states that the NASB translators add bracketed words for clarity - so I have no problem removing the bracketed words from the NASB - but this is verbatim from the NASB):

1. For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it - [for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while -
2. I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [the point of] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us.
3. For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.

Paul wrote a letter that exposed the Corinthian problem, see "I caused you sorrow by my letter" in verse 8.

As Paul writes further (in verse 9), the Apostle narrows the focus with "for you were made sorrowful according to God"; moreover, the Greek of ἐλυπήθητε γὰρ κατὰ Θεόν agrees with "for you were made sorrowful according to God". "ἐλυπήθητε" means "you grieved"/"you were made sorrowful", and "γὰρ" means "for", and "κατὰ" means "down"/"against"/"according to", and "Θεόν" means "God".

Paul does not leave it there, NO, rather Paul repeats himself in verse 10 to make it clear - in Jewish fashion of repeating a point for emphasis - Paul makes it clear in no uncertain terms "the sorrow that is according to God produces a repentance without regret, to salvation". That is Paul driving the Power of God exclusive role in man's salvation point home!

NOTICE THE KEYWORDS OF "ACCORDING TO GOD".

That sorrow, that repentance, is not of man's conjuring. See the keywords and absolute concept of "according to God"!

The scripture is devoid of "sorrow that is according to your free will" or "your free will to repent" or any indication about such a notion as man's free-will choice toward God.

The Apostle wrote "the sorrow that is according to God produces thinking differently afterward without regret" (2 Corinthians 7:10).

SCRIPTURAL CITATIONS ABOUT THE SOURCE OF REPENTANCE​

BIBLE CITATION: Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? (Romans 2:4).

Notice that rebuke of people that despise repentance being from God!

BIBLE CITATION: When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." (Acts 11:18)

See that God grants repentance as testified by the disciples in Acts 11:18.

BIBLE CITATION: with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, (2 Timothy 2:25)

Paul testifies that God grants "thinking different afterwards" in 2 Timothy 2:25.

THE THREE QUESTIONS ANSWERED​

God grants repentance into people, as it is written; on the other hand, there is complete absence and silence in scripture for repentance as a work conjured up by man nor by man's "free will" nor "choice" nor "ability".

God grants repentance, and God acts for God's glory! Praise be to the Living God!

The Apostle Paul declared that the faith/belief mentioned in Galatians 3:26 is the work of God with:

​

by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast for we are His work​

(Ephesians 2:8-10)​

​

so Paul says God causes man to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

And Paul is in agreement with the Apostle John who says that man's belief/faith is caused by the Father as a result of God birthing man anew with:

​

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him, but as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God​

(John 1:10-13)​

​

so John says God causes man to receive and to believe in the Son whom the Father has sent!

John started very broad in John 1:10 until John finished very narrowly in John 1:13 with God being the cause of "born" (John 1:13) and "believe" (John 1:12) and "children" (John 1:12) and "received" (John 1:12) for every person regenerated by God and this does not include every person in the "world".

And both Apostles are in accord with the Lord Jesus who says man believing in Jesus is the work of Almighty God with:

​

This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent​

(John 6:29)​

​

so for any person to claim that man manipulates his own belief to point at Jesus - then that man is anti-truth.

You are out of accord with all these wonderful Holy Scriptures of Ephesians 2:8-10, John 1:10-13, John 3:3-21, and John 6:29 because you believe:

​

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him, but as many as WORKED THE FIRST STEP TO GRAB HOLY KING Him, to them He ALLOWED THEIR SECOND STEP TO CAUSE THEMSELVES to become children of God, even to those who AS THEIR THIRD STEP CHOSE IN THEIR OWN SELF-WILL TO believe in His name, who were AS THE FOURTH STEP born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God BECAUSE OF THE FIRST STEP AND THE THIRD STEP​

(the culmination of TomL's heart treasure (Matthew 15:16-19))​

​

And, of John 3:3-21, your spirit prophecies:

​

Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not CAUSE YOURSELF TO believe, how will you CAUSE YOURSELF TO believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven EXCEPT MEN WHO JUDGE RIGHT IN THEIR OWN INITIATIVE TO BELIEVE IN ME AND He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever IS UNBORN OF GOD CHOOSING TO BELIEVE will have BORN THIS UNBORN WHOEVER'S SELF INTO eternal life.​

16 For God so loved EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever LOVES THE DARKNESS RATHER THAN THE LIGHT CHOOSING TO BELIEVE in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME to judge EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME, but that EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME might be saved through Him. 18 He who FORCED GOD TO CAUSE HIMSELF TO BE BORN AGAIN BECAUSE OF HIS SELF-WILLED BELIEVING in Him is not judged; he who does not CHOOSE TO believe has been judged already, because he has not CHOSEN TO BELIEVE in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into EVERYONE EVERYWHERE IN ALL TIME, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”​

2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him." 3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one WHO is NOT born again he can see the kingdom of God.”​

4Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one WHO is born of water and the Spirit he can enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh AND THIS EVIL FLESH PLEASES GOD, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit OF NO SIGNIFICANCE. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do know EXACTLY where it comes from and EXACTLY where it is going BECAUSE YOUR CHOOSING OF ME CONTROLS YOUR BECOMING BORN OF THE SPIRIT; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”​

(the word of TomL (no longer the Word of God))​

​

So, your spirit prophecies a very different message than the Holy Spirit this Word of God marvelous sayings:

​

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”​

4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”​

9 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.​

16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”​

(John 3:3-21)​

​

You embrace "other voices" (your words) than the Voice of God. You love stranger's voices such as Vincent, Dods, and Alford whose self-willed word is "The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent." (as preached by TomL, Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761), so your Lord Alford tells the lies of the devil about Lord Jesus Christ's pure, clear and precise Voice of God "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) which, by extension of you taking your Lord Alford's word as your own word, means that you do the same as your idol Alford.

Lord Jesus says "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber. But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep. To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers" (John 10:1-5).

No portion of Joshua chapter 24 mentions God imparting man the ability to choose toward God, unless you are using the faulty book of Free-willians 24:15 as shown in the following paragraph.

Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:

The tradition of man		The Word of God
If it is evil in your sight to choose to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living, or the LORD by the ability God gave you to choose the One True God; but as for me and my house, we choose to serve the LORD. (TomL 24:15)		If it is evil in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. (Joshua 24:15)

so your heart preaches your distorted sovereignty of man eliminating Christ's Sovereignty of God, and so go your adulterations of the Holy Scripture again and again and again.

The only way for you free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for them to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

Your heart's spirit is proven to make false statements about God and man, and your own interpretation is confusion. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE RIGHTEOUS ONE JESUS CHRIST!!!

Still repeating the same nonssense

You ignore the meaning of world established by John 12:47.

Mindless and endless repletion

ignoring argument

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/an-article-on-free-will.1287/post-100460


and lexical data

of all mankind, but especially of believers, as the object of God’s love J 3:16, 17c; 6:33, 51; 12:47.

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 446.

Note the verses

John 3:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:17 (KJV 1900) — 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

As per this industry standard lexicon, it is the world which was the object of God's love. The same world Christ was given for. The same world Christ provided salvation for

Those in that world who believe will be saved those who do not believe will not be saved

The gospel is simple when one believes what is written and does not try to impose man made gnostic speculations into it

You ignore context, greek exegesis and commentary of John 6:29

Worse you make Christ a liar'

John 6:27 (NASB 2020) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”


John 6:27 (ESV) — 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.”

Why? Because you worship a man made system of theology

It is more important to you than the very words of God


Verse 28 defines for us the works of God

John 6:28 (NASB 2020) — 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?”

as what are we to do'
You posted nothing to prove your point, simply asserting your claim

In the meantime you ignored contextual exegesis

Jesus told them they must work

3rd the Jews clearly understood it was they who were to believe

John 6:30 (KJV 1900) — 30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

fourth Christ affirmed there is something they must do never correcting them

John 6:32–40 (ESV) — 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.” 35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

You have isolated verse 29 from its context and assumed its meaning

you ignored the commentary of your Calvinist peers

. What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? That is, such things as God will approve. This was the earnest inquiry of men who were seeking to be saved. They had crossed the Sea of Tiberias to seek him; they supposed him to be the Messiah, and they sincerely desired to be taught the way of life; yet it is observable that they expected to find that way as other sinners commonly do—by their works. The idea of doing something to merit salvation is one of the last that the sinner ever surrenders.
Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 244.

John Calvin: “People who infer from this passage that faith is God’s gift are mistaken, for Christ does not show here what God produces in us, but what God wants and requires from us.” (The Crossway Classic Commentaries: John; Crossway Books; Wheaton, IL; 1994, p.393)

Verse 29
5. Men torment themselves in vain when they try to please God without faith.
g. That is, this is the work that God requires, that you believe in me, and therefore he calls them back to faith.


Geneva Bible Notes (1599). (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), Jn 6:28–29.



Jesus sets them straight: The work of God—i.e. what God requires—is faith. This is not faith in the abstract, an existential trust without a coherent object. Rather, they must believe in the one [God] has sent[1] Pillar New Tetament commentary D.A. Carson

John_6:28-29. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, —

The chief work, the greatest work which you can do. Spurgeon commentary

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[1] D. A. Carson, The Gospel according to John (The Pillar New Testament Commentary; Leicester, England; Grand Rapids, MI: Inter-Varsity Press; W.B. Eerdmans, 1991), 285.


The work of Greek exegetes

Believe. Faith is put as a moral act or work. The work of God is to believe. Faith includes all the works which God requires. The Jews’ question contemplates numerous works. Jesus’ answer directs them to one work. Canon Westcott justly observes that “this simple formula contains the complete solution of the relation of faith and works.”11 Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 2; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 148–149.

The meaning is not,—that faith is wrought in us by God, is the work of God; but that the truest way of working the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.11 Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 761.
Messianic work.

28. τί ποιῶμεν …; What must we do (v. 5) that we may work? Perhaps they understood Him to mean that they must earn what they desire; certainly they see that Christ’s words have a moral meaning; they must do the works required by God. But how?
29. τὸ ἔργον. They probably thought of works of the law, tithes, sacrifices, &c. He tells them of one work, one moral act, from which all the rest derive their value, continuous belief (πιστεύητε, not πιστεύσητε) in Him whom God has sent. Comp. Acts 16:31. On ἵνα and ἀπέστειλεν see on 1:8, 33, 4:47, 17:3.1
1 A. Plummer, The Gospel according to S. John (Cambridge Greek Testament for Schools and Colleges; Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1896), 155.

rather than deal with

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Believe is the answer to what must i do

Not the nothing "God will cause you to believe if you are among the elect" of your theology

You simply asserted your view

you did the same here

Acts 2:37–38 (KJV 1900) — 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

they were to repent

What shall we do is answered by you must repent again not the nothing

"God will cause you to believe if you are among the elect" of your theology

Over and over you twist and distort the word of God for the love of your gnostic theology

as for the meaning


My Bible Word Study




LEMMA
μετανοέω metanoeō repent; change one’s mind

μετανοέω fut. μετανοήσω; 1 aor. μετενόησα (Antipho +; inscr., pap., LXX, Philo, Joseph., Test. 12 Patr.) change one’s mind Hv 3, 7, 3; m 11:4 (cf. Diod. S. 15, 47, 3 μετενόησεν ὁ δῆμος; 17, 5, 1; Epict. 2, 22, 35; Appian, Hann. 35 §151, Mithrid. 58 §238; Stob., Ecl. II 113, 5ff W.; PSI 495, 9 [258 BC]; Jos., Vi. 110; 262), then feel remorse, repent, be converted (in religio-ethical sense:

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 511–512.

I would like to see how you think one can repent without a change of mind