All men

No faith is not a gift- salvation which is the result of faith is the gift via grace.

Faith is not the gift, salvation is, see below in Ephesians 2:8

1- salvation - being saved is by grace
2- salvation by grace comes by/thought faith ( genitive case )
3- salvation by grace does not come from yourself- this ( nominative case ) refers to salvation ( nominative case ) which is the gift by Gods grace.
4- salvation is the gift (nominative case )of Gods grace

conclusion: gift, salvation and this are all in the nominative case is in agreement therefor they point to salvation as the gift not faith.

Barnes the Calvinist Theologian agrees below- faith is mans responsibility.

Barnes' Notes on the Bible
This is the work of God - This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth, Romans 10:4.

conclusion: gift, salvation and this are all in the nominative case is in agreement therefor they point to salvation as the gift not faith.

And AT Robertson the premier NT Greek Scholar below :

For by grace (τῃ γαρ χαριτι [tēi gar chariti]). Explanatory reason. “By the grace” already mentioned in verse 5 and so with the article. Through faith (δια πιστεως [dia pisteōs]). This phrase he adds in repeating what he said in verse 5 to make it plainer. “Grace” is God’s part, “faith” ours. And that (και τουτο [kai touto]). Neuter, not feminine ταυτη [tautē], and so refers not to πιστις [pistis] (feminine) or to χαρις [charis] (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows that salvation does not have its source (ἐξ ὑμων [ex humōn], out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God’s gift (δωρον [dōron]) and not the result of our work.11 A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Eph 2:8.

conclusion: gift, salvation and this are all in the nominative case is in agreement therefor they point to salvation as the gift not faith.

I will quote @TibiasDad below on the words for salvation:

The words in question (σῴζω and σωτηρία) all deal with the concept of being saved, rescued, thus salvation. One who is saved has experienced salvation; thus the gift of being saved is nothing less than salvation.

Your argument ( @atpollard )is much ado about nothing, and only reveals the desperation of your objection.


Doug
This is the first time that I have ever been quoted in conjunction with Barnes and A.T. Robinson as supporting evidence of something: since it will probably be the last, I will thank you for the compliment, and place myself in your debt for your kindness.

Doug
 
Oversimplification. God is just and faithful to forgive. If God were like a man, then there would be no forgiveness without servitude. That is how men judge forgiveness. As long as you serve them, forgiveness is given.

Do you believe God is better than this?
Clearly, you fail to understand just who it is that God forgives. I don't think you understand even who it is that men forgive.
 
Also propitiation 1 Jn 2:2 presupposes reconciliation to God, the law enmity against them done away by the satisfaction Christs death provided for them. Propitiation is so related to reconciliation, we have it translated as such here Heb 2:17

Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

The word reconciliation here is the greek word hilaskomai:

  1. to render one's self, to appease, conciliate to one's self
    1. to become propitious, be placated or appeased
    2. to be propitious, be gracious, be merciful
  2. to expiate, make propitiation for

So no doubt the whole world of 1 Jn 2:2 God is gracious and merciful to, and its reconciled to Him,
Hence that in itself proves that all mankind without exception cant be meant in 1 Jn 2:2
Since many will face God in wrath on the day of Judgment, and even now His wrath abides on them Jn 3:36

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
 
Clearly, you fail to understand just who it is that God forgives. I don't think you understand even who it is that men forgive.

I do. God forgives those that ask Him. There is more to forgiveness than giving up the will to repay/vengeance. In Christ Jesus, God has forgiven this world. However, that still doesn't establish a relationship with humanity. Agreement does.
 
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Also propitiation 1 Jn 2:2 presupposes reconciliation to God, the law enmity against them done away by the satisfaction Christs death provided for them. Propitiation is so related to reconciliation, we have it translated as such here Heb 2:17

Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

The word reconciliation here is the greek word hilaskomai:

  1. to render one's self, to appease, conciliate to one's self
    1. to become propitious, be placated or appeased
    2. to be propitious, be gracious, be merciful
  2. to expiate, make propitiation for

So no doubt the whole world of 1 Jn 2:2 God is gracious and merciful to, and its reconciled to Him,
Hence that in itself proves that all mankind without exception cant be meant in 1 Jn 2:2
Since many will face God in wrath on the day of Judgment, and even now His wrath abides on them Jn 3:36

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

God prefers libertarian/synergistic free will over just reconciling everyone.
 
God prefers libertarian/synergistic free will over just reconciling everyone.
Verses in the Gospels highlight God's initiative in salvation:
  • John 6:44: Jesus states that no one can come to Him unless drawn by the Father.
  • John 6:65: Jesus emphasizes that coming to Him is granted by the Father, suggesting faith is a divine gift.
  • John 15:16: Jesus tells His disciples, "You did not choose me, but I chose you".
  • John 15:19: Jesus reinforces this by saying, "I have chosen you out of the world".

The Epistles also contain verses supporting the idea of God's choice:
  • Ephesians 1:4–5: Paul writes that God chose and predestined believers before creation according to His will.
  • Ephesians 2:8–9: This passage states that salvation by grace through faith is a gift of God, not from ourselves or by works.
  • Romans 8:29–30: Paul describes salvation as a process initiated by God's foreknowledge, including predestination, calling, justification, and glorification.
  • Romans 9:16: Paul concludes that salvation depends on God's mercy, not human will or effort.
  • 1 Corinthians 1:26–29: Paul notes that God chose the "foolish," "weak," and "lowly" things of the world so that no one can boast before Him, indicating salvation is entirely God's work.
  • 2 Thessalonians 2:13: Paul gives thanks because God chose believers for salvation from the beginning.
 
Verses in the Gospels highlight God's initiative in salvation:
  • John 6:44: Jesus states that no one can come to Him unless drawn by the Father.
Because God is the offended party, thus reconciliation is his prerogative alone. Even if man wants to, God doesn’t have to! It is all of grace!


  • John 6:65: Jesus emphasizes that coming to Him is granted by the Father, suggesting faith is a divine gift.
Because God is the offended party, thus reconciliation is his prerogative alone. Even if man wants to, God doesn’t have to! It is all of grace!

  • John 15:16: Jesus tells His disciples, "You did not choose me, but I chose you".
Specifically to be disciples…

  • John 15:19: Jesus reinforces this by saying, "I have chosen you out of the world".

Because God is the offended party…

The Epistles also contain verses supporting the idea of God's choice:
  • Ephesians 1:4–5: Paul writes that God chose and predestined believers before creation according to His will.
He predestined them to be holy…

  • Ephesians 2:8–9: This passage states that salvation by grace through faith is a gift of God, not from ourselves or by works.
Salvation is the gift! By grace through faith is the means.

  • Romans 8:29–30: Paul describes salvation as a process initiated by God's foreknowledge, including predestination, calling, justification, and glorification.
Foreknowledge is the first step…all else is specific to those he foresees as believing.


  • Romans 9:16: Paul concludes that salvation depends on God's mercy, not human will or effort.
Because God is the offended party…

  • 1 Corinthians 1:26–29: Paul notes that God chose the "foolish," "weak," and "lowly" things of the world so that no one can boast before Him, indicating salvation is entirely God's work.
Because God…


  • 2 Thessalonians 2:13: Paul gives thanks because God chose believers for salvation from the beginning.
Through his foreknowledge of who would believe.


Doug
 
Both the ABILITY OF and the PROPENSITY FOR man to reject God is well documented in Scripture.
Scripture like 1 Samuel 8:7 and John 12:48 directly addresses man’s exercise of choice to reject God:
  • 1 Samuel 8:7 [ESV]: And the LORD said to Samuel, "Obey the voice of the people in all that they say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected me from being king over them.
    • The Lord tells Samuel that the people have rejected Him by wanting a king, not a leader from God.

  • John 12:48 [ESV]: The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.
    • Jesus states that those who reject Him and His words will be judged by them.

  • 1 Corinthians 12:3 [ESV]: Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says "Jesus is accursed!" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except in the Holy Spirit.
    • No one can truly acknowledge Jesus as Lord unless they have the Holy Spirit, indicating that rejecting this truth is a rejection of God.

  • 1 Peter 4:17 [ESV]: For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
    • This verse indicates that judgment begins with the household of God, suggesting that those who reject God's truth face consequences for their actions.


Scripture like Romans 8:7 and Ephesians 2:1-2 describe the state of the human heart as hostile or dead to God's influence, explaining why rejection occurs:
  • Romans 8:7 [ESV]: For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.
  • The carnal mind is hostile to God because it does not and cannot submit to His law, illustrating an innate rejection of God's nature and authority.

  • Ephesians 2:1-2 [ESV]: And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience--
  • Humanity is described as being "dead in trespasses and sins" and walking "according to the course of this world" under the spirit of disobedience, highlighting a rejection of God's life and direction.

  • 1 Corinthians 2:14 [ESV]: The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
  • The natural person is unable to accept or understand the things of the Spirit of God, seeing them as foolishness, which points to a rejection of God's wisdom.

  • Romans 1:18-25 [ESV]: For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
  • This passage describes how people suppress the truth about God that is evident to them, choosing to worship created things rather than the Creator, which is a form of rejection.

Still other scriptures, like John 1:11 and Luke 10:16, show that rejecting Christ or His messengers is equivalent to rejecting God Himself:

  • Luke 10:16 [ESV]: "The one who hears you hears me, and the one who rejects you rejects me, and the one who rejects me rejects him who sent me."
    • Jesus tells his disciples that whoever listens to them is listening to Him, and whoever rejects them is rejecting Him, and therefore rejecting the Father who sent Him.

  • John 1:11 [ESV]: He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him.
    • Scripture notes that Jesus "came to his own, but his own did not receive him," illustrating a rejection of God's very presence and message.
 
Both the ABILITY OF and the PROPENSITY FOR man to reject God is well documented in Scripture.
Scripture like 1 Samuel 8:7 and John 12:48 directly addresses man’s exercise of choice to reject God:
  • 1 Samuel 8:7 [ESV]: And the LORD said to Samuel, "Obey the voice of the people in all that they say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected me from being king over them.
    • The Lord tells Samuel that the people have rejected Him by wanting a king, not a leader from God.

  • John 12:48 [ESV]: The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.
    • Jesus states that those who reject Him and His words will be judged by them.

  • 1 Corinthians 12:3 [ESV]: Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says "Jesus is accursed!" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except in the Holy Spirit.
    • No one can truly acknowledge Jesus as Lord unless they have the Holy Spirit, indicating that rejecting this truth is a rejection of God.

  • 1 Peter 4:17 [ESV]: For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
    • This verse indicates that judgment begins with the household of God, suggesting that those who reject God's truth face consequences for their actions.


Scripture like Romans 8:7 and Ephesians 2:1-2 describe the state of the human heart as hostile or dead to God's influence, explaining why rejection occurs:
  • Romans 8:7 [ESV]: For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.
  • The carnal mind is hostile to God because it does not and cannot submit to His law, illustrating an innate rejection of God's nature and authority.

  • Ephesians 2:1-2 [ESV]: And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience--
  • Humanity is described as being "dead in trespasses and sins" and walking "according to the course of this world" under the spirit of disobedience, highlighting a rejection of God's life and direction.

  • 1 Corinthians 2:14 [ESV]: The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
  • The natural person is unable to accept or understand the things of the Spirit of God, seeing them as foolishness, which points to a rejection of God's wisdom.

  • Romans 1:18-25 [ESV]: For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
  • This passage describes how people suppress the truth about God that is evident to them, choosing to worship created things rather than the Creator, which is a form of rejection.

Still other scriptures, like John 1:11 and Luke 10:16, show that rejecting Christ or His messengers is equivalent to rejecting God Himself:

  • Luke 10:16 [ESV]: "The one who hears you hears me, and the one who rejects you rejects me, and the one who rejects me rejects him who sent me."
    • Jesus tells his disciples that whoever listens to them is listening to Him, and whoever rejects them is rejecting Him, and therefore rejecting the Father who sent Him.

  • John 1:11 [ESV]: He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him.
    • Scripture notes that Jesus "came to his own, but his own did not receive him," illustrating a rejection of God's very presence and message.
And your point is?

Doug
 
And your point is?

Doug
The ability and propensity of man to exercise his free choice and accept God is less well documented. [I leave it for others to present the scripture illustrating “libertine free will towards salvation” if they believe it exists.]

My goal was to illustrate BIBLICAL free will (as I see it) and to refute any “hard determinism” that denies man’s ability to choose to reject God.

Arthur
 
The ability and propensity of man to exercise his free choice and accept God is less well documented. [I leave it for others to present the scripture illustrating “libertine free will towards salvation” if they believe it exists.]

My goal was to illustrate BIBLICAL free will (as I see it) and to refute any “hard determinism” that denies man’s ability to choose to reject God.

Arthur
Who has ever claimed that man couldn’t reject God? What we have said is that if one is determined by God to do X, then God’s determination is what makes it necessary to happen. This logically removes man’s responsibility for he has no other option but to do X.

If man is free to reject God, then why is he not free to accept him?

Doug
 
Who has ever claimed that man couldn’t reject God?
Hard determinism postulates that man does not CHOOSE to reject God, but is forced to reject God.
 
What we have said is that if one is determined by God to do X, then God’s determination is what makes it necessary to happen. This logically removes man’s responsibility for he has no other option but to do X.
Yes you have. Yet I am I impressed with what people “say” and more interested in what God says (in scripture) and what people can prove from what Scripture states.

Where I see scripture and people’s logic parting ways is that most logical arguments (both Hard Determinism and Libertine Free Will) insist that both salvation and damnation are equivalent. Either God irresistibly compels BOTH or man is 100% FREE to control both. Those are excellent as logical arguments (they make perfect sense to me). The problem, as I see it, is that SCRIPTURE claims something else. Scripture claims that men freely choose to reject God’s offer (as I presented in the verses that you asked “why?”). Scripture also claims that it is God that chooses who to save (“I will show mercy to whom I Weill show mercy” … “a gift, not of yourselves” … “no man can come unless the Father draws” … “you did not choose me, but I chose you” … the golden chain of Romans 8).

So I reject both complete FREE WILL to choose God and HARD DETERMINISM to compel men to reject God. MEN are responsible for freely choosing to reject God and GOD is responsible for drawing men to the gift of salvation. Not because of LOGIC, but because of SCRIPTURE.
 
Hard determinism postulates that man does not CHOOSE to reject God, but is forced to reject God.
Man naturally rejects the True God, and opposes Him. In the Fall of Adam, as he was our federal head representative,bhis disobedience was imputed to us, which disobedience is passed on in our nature, hence by nature we will always be children of disobedience towards God. Its a spiritual death condemnation Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

So there can never be any kind of obedience from fallen man in adam, the only hope now of acceptable obedience to God is by means of a new birth, and even then, the old adamic nature of disobedience isn't eradicated. Thats why o warfare in the True believer Rom 7;Gal 5
 
1 Timothy 2:1–6

“I appeal therefore, first of all, for petitions to be being made, prayers, intercessions, thanksgivings, in behalf of all men, in behalf of kings and all those who are in authority, in order that we may lead a quiet and tranquil life in all piety and respectability. This is good and acceptable before our Savior, God, who desires for all men to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth. For one is God, one also is mediator of God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, the one who gave himself a ransom in behalf of all.”
The obvious question, here, is whether “all men” in verse 4 and “all” in verse 6 are truly universal and encompass the entire human race. The Calvinist view is that they do not. Some Calvinists interpret the “all” to mean people of all kinds or classes, and thus to “refer to the revealed will of God that both Jews and Gentiles should be saved”; such passages “imply nothing as to the universal intent of the atonement.” Others, having distinguished between the sufficiency and the intent of the atonement, suggest that this passage refers to its sufficiency for all: “Owen remarks that [1 Tim. 2:6] must be understood to mean that Christ’s blood was sufficient to be made a ransom for all, to be made a price for all.”

Shedd, with Owen, is at least due credit for recognizing that “all” means “all” in the passage. No wonder he proceeds, therefore, to say that “Atonement must be distinguished from redemption,” and that “Atonement is unlimited, and redemption is limited”—a statement an Arminian might well agree with, especially in light of Shedd’s insistence that redemption “includes the application of the atonement.”

Arminians insist, however, that this passage indicates a provision for universal redemption. As Sailer notes, “The context … is universalistic throughout.” To summarize his treatment in loco,
(1) the passage opens with appeal to believers to pray for all men, which must be broader than believers since it includes kings and all in authority;
(2) this is based on God’s desire that all men be saved;
(3) this in turn reflects that there is one God and one mediator between God and men, again a universal emphasis;
(4) and this in turn rests on the fact that the one mediator gave himself a ransom for all. He concludes by observing that “The context demands a universal application.” His exegesis is convincing.
To simplify: in the passage at hand we find:
(1) prayers for all
(2) desire for all
(3) ransom for all.
Those who would interpret the “all” to mean “all classes” point to the reference to kings and authorities in verse 2 as supporting this view. In other words, we should pray for people at all levels, whether kings or commoners, princes or peasants.
Well, then, if we are to sustain that interpretation, given the unity of the passage, “all men” must have that meaning throughout.

In verse 6 we find that the “all” referred to are those ransomed. They must therefore be the elect. Consequently we must read the passage thus:
Verses 1, 2—the prayers exhorted must be made for all the elect among all people of whatever classes, including believing kings and authorities.
Verses 3, 4—the basis of this exhortation is that this will be well-pleasing to the God who desires that the elect of all classes of men, high and low, be saved.
Verses 5, 6—in turn, the basis of this is that there is one God and one mediator, Jesus Christ, between God and elect men, who gave himself a ransom for all elect men of all classes.
I submit that this is a consistent reading, using the Calvinist’s understanding of the “all men,” but that it is not coherent. The obvious lack of continuity between verses 1, 2 and verses 5, 6 is almost enough, by itself, to disqualify this exegesis. It is reasonably clear that Paul is not asking for prayers for Christian authorities only.

To those who insist that the mention of kings and authorities supports the understanding “all classes” of men, I would respond by saying that the passage as a whole makes better sense if God’s universal desire for the salvation of all and Christ’s ransom for all provide the universal basis that will include kings and authorities. It is the universal (all) that incorporates the particular (kings), not the particular that determines the meaning of the universal. On the grounds that prayers should be offered for all, Paul can readily include a request for kings and authorities in view of the fact that their good graces are needed for believers to live in piety and respectability and pursue the mission of the God who wills that all be saved.
Are there specific exegetical tasks that may help establish or undermine this view? One that occurs immediately is, Does Paul use “all men” elsewhere in this letter, and if so with what meaning? In this passage it occurs three times (verses 1, 4, 6), twice modifying “men” expressed and once with “men” left to be supplied.

The answer to the question is that it occurs three more times in 1 Timothy: namely in 4:10, with “men” expressed, and in 4:15 and 5:20, with “men” left to be supplied. Analysis of these is instructive.

4:10
… the living God, who is Savior of all men, most of all of believers.
4:15
… that your progress may be evident to all.
5:20
Rebuke those sinning in the presence of all.…

When I say that these are instructive I mean that they help us determine how to read the word “all.” In the latter two, Paul is speaking to Timothy in the direct light of his relationship to the believing community. It is obvious, as one reads the verses, that “all” means all those in that community (and not all men universally).

But the very sound of 4:10 is different, not to mention the specific verbal content. Even without the addition “most of all of believers” we would automatically understand “all men” to be all men universally. No doubt some interpreter would attempt to change our minds on that point; for that reason we are glad we have the added “most of all of believers.” That leaves us in no doubt, then, that “all men” means everyone. That He is Savior of all men speaks of provision; that He is Savior especially of believers speaks of application.

(I can hear some Calvinist arguing, as before, that if God is Savior of all then all will be saved. And I repeat, as before, that this reading is unwarranted. See above in this chapter and my answer to the Calvinist’s third argument in chapter 5. Indeed, this particular passage is helpful in answering that argument since it explains both how He can be Savior of all and especially of believers, to whom alone His Spirit applies Christ’s atoning work.)

This use of “all men” argues strongly for the same interpretation in 2:1–6. Indeed there, just as here in 4:10, Paul is speaking without the kind of self-evident limitation that “all” has in 4:15 and 5:20.

We are probably justified in extending our search for Paul’s use of “all men” to the letter to Titus, given that the two letters were apparently written at about the same time and with similar concerns and circumstances. In that letter “all men” occurs twice, both times with “men” expressed:

2:11
The grace of God bringing salvation to all men has appeared (or, has appeared to all men).
3:2
… showing all humility to all men.

Again, one needs no agonizing analysis to recognize that both of these are unlimited. In neither one is Titus being addressed regarding community life specifically. In both verses the subject is the Christian life in the midst of the world. In 2:11 Paul exhorts believing slaves to adorn the doctrine of salvation with right behavior because God’s saving grace toward all men has made its appearance and teaches godly living. They will undermine that grace with lives that are not commensurate with it. I will not argue the connection of the phrase “to all men” beyond saying that it seems more likely to be linked to the unique adjectival use of sotērios, bringing salvation: “For the grace of God for the salvation of all men has appeared” (I tend to think that the somewhat parallel ideas in 3:4 support this, but one cannot be dogmatic.) Regardless, the impact of the verse is the same and is universal: God’s saving grace, which made its appearance in history in the redemptive work of Jesus Christ, is provided for all men.

In 3:2, as in 1 Timothy 2:1–6, the subject of rulers and authorities is again involved, and they are obviously not all (not even usually) believers. But in the face of unbelieving rulers, as also of all men, the Christian recalls his own formerly wicked life and manifests subjection to rulers and meekness to all.
The argument about 1 Timothy 2:1–6 does not depend on this usage in Titus, of course, but the usage, if it means anything, adds a measure of support for the universalistic understanding of “all men” in the passage before us.

I would conclude this chapter with what I believe is an important observation, although I offer it without hubris. All of us who handle God’s Word do well to remember that we do not honor Him with our interpretive ingenuity but with submission to what He says. To say, even to show, that a given statement can be interpreted in a certain way does us no credit at all. The question is always not what the words can mean but what they do mean, here. In 1 John 2:2 and in 1 Timothy 2:1–6, the most obvious meaning of “world” and “all men” is universalistic. In these cases, careful exegesis supports the obvious meaning.


Robert E. Picirilli, Grace, Faith, Free Will: Contrasting Views of Salvation: Calvinism and Arminianism
 
Hard determinism postulates that man does not CHOOSE to reject God, but is forced to reject God.
Not just hard determinism, any type of deterministic argument beneath the Calvinistic umbrella.

Again, at what point is deed X necessarily going to happen? If it is the point of God’s determination, then we have no other option and must do what he determines.

The hyperbole of “forced” is not a bad terminology, because if I must necessarily act according to a higher authority’s edict it is a type of force.

I’m sure your response will be that man wants to go against God, but who determines what a man wants in your perspective? Is it not God? Do we have any desire, power, or opportunity for doing otherwise in determinism? Then “forced” is not inappropriate, though that is not my preferred term of choice. (Assuming I can choose my verbiage of my own accord! Otherwise, God determined that I disagree with your opinion. And if God thinks I should disagree with you necessarily, what does that mean?)


Doug
 
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