praise_yeshua
Active Member
Show me "Shema prayer" in the Scriptures.
I'll remind you that Jesus taught Israel how to pray and it has nothing to do with ritualistic prayer. Jesus didn't pray like their "Rabbis".
All Claims of The Son's Deity
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I'll remind you that Jesus taught Israel how to pray and it has nothing to do with ritualistic prayer. Jesus didn't pray like their "Rabbis".
amazing grace
Active Member
“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise . . . Deut. 6:4 The shema is a declaration of the belief in one God. However, it is said as a prayer, often with profound concentration and devotion, especially in the morning and evening services.
Jesus said this was the most important commandment in Mark 12:28,29 . . . And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, “Which commandment is the most important of all?”Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’
Jesus was Jewish so he would have been making this declaration of belief and praying the shema ("Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is One") morning and night along with every devout Jewish person.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Jesus never followed the Mishnah requirement. Your Rabbis taught you the tradition of repeating various verses from the OT. I'm looking for a single Scripture that details the prayer itself. I already know it doesn't exist. You're referencing the teachings of the Mishnah.
Jesus didn't answer to the Mishnah. Your national pride is just that. Pride in the face of many humbling events that brought you to the empty teachings of Rabbis of years long past. That is why the Rabbis sought to murder Jesus Christ.
Do you deny that the Rabbis sought to murder Jesus Christ?
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dwight92070
Active Member
1 John 1:1-2 John calls Jesus the Word of Life and the eternal life, which was with the Father. So, since Jesus is eternal, I would conclude that He can't be only a man. So He must be God.
Next fallacy.
Next fallacy.
dwight92070
Active Member
In Luke 16:13, Jesus says that "No servant can serve two masters ... you cannot serve God and wealth." So neither money or anyone or anything should be on an equal level with God.
But Jesus is called "Master" on several occasions in the New Testament.
In fact, Jude 4 says that certain ungodly persons ... "deny our ONLY MASTER and Lord, Jesus Christ."
So if Jesus is our ONLY MASTER, then what about God? Obviously, He is our Master too, but that leaves us with 2 MASTERS - unless, of course, Jesus IS God.
Next fallacy.
But Jesus is called "Master" on several occasions in the New Testament.
In fact, Jude 4 says that certain ungodly persons ... "deny our ONLY MASTER and Lord, Jesus Christ."
So if Jesus is our ONLY MASTER, then what about God? Obviously, He is our Master too, but that leaves us with 2 MASTERS - unless, of course, Jesus IS God.
Next fallacy.
amazing grace
Active Member
I don't have any Rabbis.
Mishna in Hebrew means to study by repetition. . . the first written collection of the Jewish oral traditions known as the oral Torah. The Torah is the law of God as revealed to Moses and recorded in the first five books of the Hebrew scriptures; the shema being within those first five books.
You are trying to tell me that as a Jew, Jesus would not have said the shema as required in Deut. 6:4 yet it's what hexqu9ted as the first and great commandment?
Remember - Jesus ALWAYS did the will of God, his Father.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Referencing Shema requires you understand Jewish culture. I'm one of those "Gentile dogs" but I found it necessary to know Judaism within the cultural history of national Israel a very long time ago.
No it is not. There are verses within the Shema prayer but that isn't the only thing included in the Shema ritual prayer. You know it isn't. Don't make it anything other than what it is. There is no such thing as a complete oral history of cultural or national Israel. It has largely been reconstructed thousands of years removed from the actual event of the giving of the Torah to Moses.
There is no requirement to recite the words of the Shema prayer that came from the Mishnah found in Deut 6:4 itself. You're conflating and assuming such conflations are facts when they're not.
Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
That word "Lord" means something in Deut 6:4. Do you accept the word "Lord" as in in the Greek language of the NT? If you do, then you can't ignore what that word means in Greek. It saturated throughout the NT. Either accept it for what it is or reject the entirety of the NT. Don't be one of these people that love to live between two opinions.
Serve one or the other. You can't have two masters. You will love one and hate the other. Do you remember Jesus saying this? Does it remind you of what Elijah said.
1Ki 18:21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
civic
Active Member
[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
Yes Lord in both testaments becomes a MAJOR stumbling block for every single uni. No exceptions.
1Corinthians 8:6 the N.T. Shema trips them every time and the irony is its their pet goto verse.
amazing grace
Active Member
“Now this is the commandment—the statutes and the rules—that the Lord your God commanded me to teach you, that you may do them in the land to which you are going over, to possess it, that you may fear the Lord your God, you and your son and your son's son, by keeping all his statutes and his commandments, which I command you, all the days of your life, and that your days may be long. Hear therefore, O Israel, and be careful to do them, that it may go well with you, and that you may multiply greatly, as the Lord, the God of your fathers, has promised you, in a land flowing with milk and honey.
“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise."
Remember - Jesus ALWAYS did the will of God, his Father. But thanks for your input.
“Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. . . . . “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money." . . . But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you."
You cannot serve God and wealth/riches.
I do not follow Baal - Baal is a false god, an idol.
Lord is a title like “King,” “General” or “Captain.” Both God and Jesus Christ carry the title Lord.
In the Old Testament, God is called Lord. But if you look closely you see that most Bibles spell Lord in the Old Testament with all capital letters – “LORD.” = Yahweh/Jehovah.
amazing grace
Active Member
civic
Active Member
It 100% supports the Trinity in 1 Corinthians 8:6. @amazing grace would you like to debate that verse with me and you must stick to the verse and not run around everywhere else.
amazing grace
Active Member
Why don't you just explain how you come to the conclusion that 1 Corinthians 8:6 supports the Trinity? I don't see it.
civic
Active Member
Both the One God and One Lord are responsible for all things in creation.
It’s as simple as that. You cannot have One without the Other. It was a tandem act of Creation by the Father and Son.
amazing grace
Active Member
Thanks for explaining your point of view.
hmmm - Is it talking about creation as in God's original creation, i.e. Genesis 1? If you believe it is maybe you can also show me where you draw that conclusion.
I don't believe the original creation in Genesis is the subject here in the immediate context or even in the remote context but THE CHURCH is within the immediate context and the remote context. 1 Corinthians seems to be all about issues within the CHURCH.
Then this verse specifically references 'Yet for us', i.e. Christians.
there is but ONE God, the Father from whom all things came and for whom we live
then there is ONE Lord, Jesus Christ through whom all things came and through whom we live.
so fitting within the context ---- God provided 'all things' for the Church 'through' Jesus Christ.
civic
Active Member
All things is creation as the NT makes very clear.
John 1:3, “Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.”
Colossians 1:16 affirms that “all things were created…through Him and for Him.”
Hebrews 1:2 says God “made the universe through Him,” presenting the Son as co-creator
See also Cf. John 1:10; Ephesians 3:9; Romans 11:36; Revelation 4:11
hope this helps !!!
Victoria
Active Member
I only see Abba, Father, once in the Old Testament...
And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me:
nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.
Mark 14:36
And twice in the New Testament...
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption,
whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Romans 8:15
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Galatians 4:6
However, the only name I see being exalted in the New Testament is the Lord Jesus Christ
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Philippians 2:10-11
Doesn't your god stress there's no god but him? If so, looks as if you'll be worshiping two (false) gods.
So basically you follow Arius, & not the God of the Bible. If truth really matters, then there it is.
Victoria
Active Member
There are three main groups concerning the Bible:
1. Those who hold that the modern translations, based on the text of Westcott and Hort (aka., Critical Text, Nestle-Aland), are more reliable than the Authorized Version of 1611 (KJV) translation, which is based upon the Greek Textus Receptus and Hebrew Masoretic Text;
2. Those who hold that the KJV is most reliable (in English) because it was translated from the Greek Textus Receptus and Hebrew Masoretic Text,
3. Those who hold that a translation such as the KJV was given by inspiration and is the preserved Word of God and is the final authority in our present world, not the Hebrew Masoretic Text and Greek Textus Receptus.
The second is the right position, the one that Scripture attests to. The third one is wrong, which I debunk in this linked report. The first one, the modern version position based upon the Critical Text, is a diabolical attack on God’s Word and under the condemnation of Rev 22:18-19 — my focus here in this report.
Full article: Why Modern Bible Versions are Corrupt, and the King James Version is Not
All you had to say here is Alexandrinus... & you lost me.
I don't know who you're describing here, but it surely isn't me.
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amazing grace
Active Member
All things would depend upon context and subject of said context . . .
John 1:3, John 1:10 does pertain to the Genesis creation which was created by God's powerful creative speech - AND GOD SAID the subject here is still the 'Word'.
Colossians 1:16 the all things that were created are listed thrones, dominions, rulers and authority and have to do with the new creation, the body of Christ, the church of which Jesus is the head and the firstborn from the dead . . . it's all there in the context.
Hebrews 1:2 also has to do with the new creation . . . . created in and through the resurrected Christ.
Yep, God created all things: Ephesians 3:9; Romans 11:36; Revelation 4:11.
Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the Lord, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself, Isaiah 44:24
For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens; (he is God!), who formed the earth and made it (he established it; he did not create it empty, he formed it to be inhabited!): “I am the LORD, and there is no other. Isaiah 45:18
The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork. Psalm 19:1
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civic
Active Member
this is eisegesis since its the same "all things" in every passage I referenced and since you have a bias/premise when reading the Bible " Jesus is not God " then you reason away every reference to the Son so as to make it say something different then what the bible intended it to mean. You read your own personal view into the scriptures. Sound exegesis " all things" references the creation account is how those passages are understood.
Now back to 1 Corinthians 8:6.
You would agree the Jesus is the One Lord and the Father cannot be the Lord correct ?
amazing grace
Active Member
Are you kidding? Were you looking for ABBA? I said 'Yahweh is the Father of scripture' - Yahweh (YHWH) is God's name.
For surely you are our Father, though Abraham does not know us and Israel does not acknowledge us. You, O LORD are our Father; Our Redeemer from of old is your name. (Isaiah 63:16)
From of old no one has heard or perceived by the ear, no eye has seen a God besides you, who acts for those who wait for him. . .But now, O LORD, you are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; all of us are the work of your hand. (Isaiah 64:4,8)
Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us? Why then are we faithless to one another, profaning the covenant of our fathers? (Malachi 2:10)
Mark 14:36 which you had under your OT quotes is in the Gospels.
I'm sorry that you think ABBA is the only reference to the Father.
Jesus mentions his Father all the time!!! God is his God and his Father and our God and our Father . . . John 20:17
God's name wouldn't have to be exalted HE IS THE ALMIGHTY.However, the only name I see being exalted in the New Testament is the Lord Jesus Christ
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Philippians 2:10-11
Yep, Jesus Christ is Lord TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER (you missed another reference to God being the Father!)
Yes, 'Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:' Deut. 6:4
To whom then will you compare me? Who is my equal? says the Holy One. (Isaiah 40:25)
Now therefore, O LORD our God, deliver us from (Sennacherib's) hand, so that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that you alone, O LORD, are God. (Isaiah 37:20)
For I am God, and there is no one else; I am God and there is no one like me. (Isaiah 46:9)
There is no one other than me; I am the LORD, and there is no one else. (Isaiah 45:6) . . . that is the God of the Bible.
I am not worshiping 'two gods' for I do not worship Jesus AS GOD but as my risen Lord Jesus Christ, God's Messiah.
I honor the Son just as I honor God the Father who sent him - each in their respective positions.
So it seems that you may be worshiping 'two gods' for you worship God the Father and you worship the Son also AS GOD.
I am a Biblical Unitarian. Yes, truth matters.
