All Claims of The Son's Deity

[amazing grace]

this is eisegesis since its the same "all things" in every passage I referenced and since you have a bias/premise when reading the Bible " Jesus is not God " then you reason away every reference to the Son so as to make it say something different then what the bible intended it to mean. You read your own personal view into the scriptures. Sound exegesis " all things" references the creation account is how those passages are understood.

Now back to 1 Corinthians 8:6.

You would agree the Jesus is the One Lord and the Father cannot be the Lord correct ?

It isn't the same 'all things' in every passage but hey, you'll never be able to read scripture without a Trinitarian bias. You read Jesus as creating when in the OT it is God alone who stretched the heavens among other verses which I posted that say he alone created, he created by 'myself' . . . . God did not change from the OT to the NT . . . it is still he alone that created.

I believe what the verse says - yet for us, Christians, out from among the many gods mentioned in the previous verse, there is but one God, who is the Father and out from among the many lords mentioned in the previous verse, for us Christians, there is one Lord, Jesus Christ.

 

[civic]

It isn't the same 'all things' in every passage but hey, you'll never be able to read scripture without a Trinitarian bias. You read Jesus as creating when in the OT it is God alone who stretched the heavens among other verses which I posted that say he alone created, he created by 'myself' . . . . God did not change from the OT to the NT . . . it is still he alone that created.

I believe what the verse says - yet for us, Christians, out from among the many gods mentioned in the previous verse, there is but one God, who is the Father and out from among the many lords mentioned in the previous verse, for us Christians, there is one Lord, Jesus Christ.

So the Father is not Lord- good to know.

That means everytime YHWH is called Lord its never speaking about the Father.

Welcome to the Trinity.

 

[amazing grace]

So the Father is not Lord- good to know.

That means everytime YHWH is called Lord its never speaking about the Father.

It seems scripture doesn't agree with you:

For surely you are our Father, though Abraham does not know us and Israel does not acknowledge us. You, O LORD are our Father; Our Redeemer from of old is your name. (Isaiah 63:16)
From of old no one has heard or perceived by the ear, no eye has seen a God besides you, who acts for those who wait for him. . .But now, O LORD, you are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; all of us are the work of your hand. (Isaiah 64:4,8)

It seems Jesus doesn't agree with you . . . "At that time Jesus declared, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children;" Matt. 11:25

Because God is called “Lord” in the Old Testament and Jesus is called “Lord” in the New Testament, doesn’t mean that Jesus is God.
The title “Lord” is used of many people in the Bible not just God and Jesus. ---- which is why 1 Corinthians reads: For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth-----as indeed there are many 'gods' and many 'lords'. . .
And also reads - there is no God but one . . (v4) and reiterates it in v(6) for us there is one God, . . . that one God is the Father and there is one Lord, - that one Lord is Jesus Christ . . . .
Jesus earned his position of authority and that authority was given to him from God by raising him from the dead and exalting him to his own right hand ----- “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

Welcome to the Trinity.

No thanks . . .

 

[civic]

It seems scripture doesn't agree with you:

For surely you are our Father, though Abraham does not know us and Israel does not acknowledge us. You, O LORD are our Father; Our Redeemer from of old is your name. (Isaiah 63:16)
From of old no one has heard or perceived by the ear, no eye has seen a God besides you, who acts for those who wait for him. . .But now, O LORD, you are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; all of us are the work of your hand. (Isaiah 64:4,8)

It seems Jesus doesn't agree with you . . . "At that time Jesus declared, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children;" Matt. 11:25

Because God is called “Lord” in the Old Testament and Jesus is called “Lord” in the New Testament, doesn’t mean that Jesus is God.
The title “Lord” is used of many people in the Bible not just God and Jesus. ---- which is why 1 Corinthians reads: For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth-----as indeed there are many 'gods' and many 'lords'. . .
And also reads - there is no God but one . . (v4) and reiterates it in v(6) for us there is one God, . . . that one God is the Father and there is one Lord, - that one Lord is Jesus Christ . . . .
Jesus earned his position of authority and that authority was given to him from God by raising him from the dead and exalting him to his own right hand ----- “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

No thanks . . .

I'm sorry it does and you previously admitted there is only One God- the Father and One Lord - Jesus.

So by your own admission the Father cannot be the Lord.

Welcome to the Biblical God.

And I knew before we started you could not stay with 1 Cor 8:6 but would run away from it as you did above. I have yet to meet any uni that can stick with the text in question- 1 Corinthian 8:6.

next fallacy.

hope this helps !!!

 

[praise_yeshua]

There are three main groups concerning the Bible:

1. Those who hold that the modern translations, based on the text of Westcott and Hort (aka., Critical Text, Nestle-Aland), are more reliable than the Authorized Version of 1611 (KJV) translation, which is based upon the Greek Textus Receptus and Hebrew Masoretic Text;

2. Those who hold that the KJV is most reliable (in English) because it was translated from the Greek Textus Receptus and Hebrew Masoretic Text,

3. Those who hold that a translation such as the KJV was given by inspiration and is the preserved Word of God and is the final authority in our present world, not the Hebrew Masoretic Text and Greek Textus Receptus.

The second is the right position, the one that Scripture attests to. The third one is wrong, which I debunk in this linked report. The first one, the modern version position based upon the Critical Text, is a diabolical attack on God’s Word and under the condemnation of Rev 22:18-19 — my focus here in this report.


Full article: Why Modern Bible Versions are Corrupt, and the King James Version is Not

All you had to say here is Alexandrinus... & you lost me.

I don't know who you're describing here, but it surely isn't me.

You're wrong about so many things above. I'm not part of of any the categories/groups above.

So what do you not like about Codex Alexandrinus? I have meet very few people that actually know anything about it.

Did you know that Codex Alexandrinus was gifted to King James just a few years after his bible was produced. It is the property of the English monarchy. Just like the copyright for the KJV.

?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Lord is a title like “King,” “General” or “Captain.” Both God and Jesus Christ carry the title Lord.
In the Old Testament, God is called Lord. But if you look closely you see that most Bibles spell Lord in the Old Testament with all capital letters – “LORD.” = Yahweh/Jehovah.

So God is a King, General, or Captain?

I'd say you don't have very much experience in this particular area of argumentation. If you believe this, then why not allow for the Lord Jesus Christ sharing in the Character of God.

Lets define "God". I don't think you actually understand what a Trinitarian teaches about God. Few Unitarians do. You've probably heard that we're PolyTheists. We're not.

Even among Trinitarians there are some divisions in what we believe. I watched a Greek Orthodox priest get very very mad over what he sees as the division that took place between Catholics and Orthodoxy. Such nonsense almost always makes me angry. So petty.

I hope you realize how so many things center around the sole intent of controlling others. I don't want to control you. You have a Master whether you realize it or not. I want you to answer to Him. You don't need me. If I can get you to embrace your Master, then I will have done what my intent is to do. You don't have to agree with me on everything. I'm sure we probably never will.

Most people don't understand the "fellowship" that exists among the members of the body of Christ. We either find fellowship in Jesus Christ or we don't. Our fellowship is in the Son.

Outside of this. Be the "person" God intends for you to be in this life. We're all similar but unique. We fit somewhere in the body and we can together, be the proper "Bride" of Jesus Christ.

Speaking of.....

Does Christ have a Bride? Does the Father have a Bride?

How you answer this might just make a difference in your life.

 

[dwight92070]

If Amazing Grace was honest, Civic, he would have to admit that he has been cornered with 1 Corinthians 8:6. Actually the Scripture itself cornered him. The inescapable truth is that Jesus is Lord and God. So is the Father and so is the Holy Spirit.

This same truth, that Jesus is God, is presented in Scripture in many places and for the Uni's, it always comes down to them denying the truth of Scripture, trying to weasel their way out of the corner that the Word of God puts them in.

 

[civic]

If Amazing Grace was honest, Civic, he would have to admit that he has been cornered with 1 Corinthians 8:6. Actually the Scripture itself cornered him. The inescapable truth is that Jesus is Lord and God. So is the Father and so is the Holy Spirit.

This same truth, that Jesus is God, is presented in Scripture in many places and for the Uni's, it always comes down to them denying the truth of Scripture, trying to weasel their way out of the corner that the Word of God puts them in.

Amen !

The same is true with their other pet verse John 17:3. Both Father/Son are equal with eternal Life.

Their focus is on the wrong thing in the verse. Jesus point is all about eternal life.

 

[amazing grace]

I'm sorry it does and you previously admitted there is only One God- the Father and One Lord - Jesus.

Nor have I changed my mind to what the scripture actually says.

I believe what the verse says - yet for us, Christians, out from among the many gods mentioned in the previous verse, there is but one God, who is the Father and out from among the many lords mentioned in the previous verse, for us Christians, there is one Lord, Jesus Christ.

So by your own admission the Father cannot be the Lord.

I disagree - both bear the title 'Lord'. All I have done is reiterate what the verse actually says.

Welcome to the Biblical God.

I wish I could welcome you to the Biblical God which is NOT Triune.

And I knew before we started you could not stay with 1 Cor 8:6 but would run away from it as you did above. I have yet to meet any uni that can stick with the text in question- 1 Corinthian 8:6.

I stayed within the immediate context of 1 Corinthians 8:6 until you said that I admitted that the Father cannot be the Lord . . . so I referenced scripture where the Father is the LORD, i.e. Yahweh/Jehovah.
There is not ONLY one verse in the Bible = 1 Corinthians 8:6 on which to base your opinon. You are denying what scripture teaches about God the Father, who is the LORD God Almighty. . . .

next fallacy.

hope this helps !!!

Thanks.

 

[amazing grace]

So God is a King, General, or Captain?

I'd say you don't have very much experience in this particular area of argumentation. If you believe this, then why not allow for the Lord Jesus Christ sharing in the Character of God.

Lets define "God". I don't think you actually understand what a Trinitarian teaches about God. Few Unitarians do. You've probably heard that we're PolyTheists. We're not.

Even among Trinitarians there are some divisions in what we believe. I watched a Greek Orthodox priest get very very mad over what he sees as the division that took place between Catholics and Orthodoxy. Such nonsense almost always makes me angry. So petty.

I hope you realize how so many things center around the sole intent of controlling others. I don't want to control you. You have a Master whether you realize it or not. I want you to answer to Him. You don't need me. If I can get you to embrace your Master, then I will have done what my intent is to do. You don't have to agree with me on everything. I'm sure we probably never will.

Most people don't understand the "fellowship" that exists among the members of the body of Christ. We either find fellowship in Jesus Christ or we don't. Our fellowship is in the Son.

Outside of this. Be the "person" God intends for you to be in this life. We're all similar but unique. We fit somewhere in the body and we can together, be the proper "Bride" of Jesus Christ.

Speaking of.....

Does Christ have a Bride? Does the Father have a Bride?

How you answer this might just make a difference in your life.

I believe that the Father is the only true God and that Jesus Christ is the one sent by God.

 

[civic]

Nor have I changed my mind to what the scripture actually says.


I disagree - both bear the title 'Lord'. All I have done is reiterate what the verse actually says.

I wish I could welcome you to the Biblical God which is NOT Triune.

I stayed within the immediate context of 1 Corinthians 8:6 until you said that I admitted that the Father cannot be the Lord . . . so I referenced scripture where the Father is the LORD, i.e. Yahweh/Jehovah.
There is not ONLY one verse in the Bible = 1 Corinthians 8:6 on which to base your opinon. You are denying what scripture teaches about God the Father, who is the LORD God Almighty. . . .

Thanks.

And both bear the title God/ YHWH. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. One means one. So it works both ways in 1 Cor 8:6.

Next fallacy

 

[dwight92070]

Amen !

The same is true with their other pet verse John 17:3. Both Father/Son are equal with eternal Life.

Their focus is on the wrong thing in the verse. Jesus point is all about eternal life.

Yes, eternal life requires knowing BOTH the Father, the only true God, and Jesus whom He has sent.

Jesus said, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, ..." John 8:42

Compare that verse with this one: "When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me, " John 15:26

And this verse: "for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came forth from the Father. I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; ..." John 16:27-28

This is how I think of what these verses say:

Imagine a huge sphere of very bright light in space and let's say that that represents God the Father, and His very essence and Being. Then imagine that we see a long patch of light, shaped like an icicle, coming out of the sphere, heading toward the Earth, and soon it lands softly on the earth. That represents the Word proceeding forth from the Father and coming into the world.

Then we see another icicle-shaped patch of light coming out of the sphere, and also headed to the earth, and landing softly on it. That represents the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father - the Holy Spirit.

So both the Word and the Holy Spirit were in the sphere and one with the Father - and still are. Yet, in addition to that, both were sent to enter into the world - the Word became flesh in the womb of Mary - Jesus, and the Holy Spirit came on Jesus and all who received and followed Him.

 

[amazing grace]

If Amazing Grace was honest, Civic, he would have to admit that he has been cornered with 1 Corinthians 8:6. Actually the Scripture itself cornered him. The inescapable truth is that Jesus is Lord and God. So is the Father and so is the Holy Spirit.

This same truth, that Jesus is God, is presented in Scripture in many places and for the Uni's, it always comes down to them denying the truth of Scripture, trying to weasel their way out of the corner that the Word of God puts them in.

I haven't been cornered at all - 1 Corinthians 8:6 is not the only scripture in the Bible on which one should base their knowledge of who God is and who our Lord Jesus Christ is.
Jesus is Lord but Jesus is not God.
God is the Father and the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit or the power of God depending upon context.
Jesus is the Son of God whom God raised from the dead and exalted to His own right hand . . .

I serve the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, etc. - the God of our fathers . . . Jesus Christ is not the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, etc. - Jesus Christ is the Lord's Messiah . . .

Now there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon, and this man was righteous and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord's Christ. And he came in the Spirit into the temple, and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him according to the custom of the Law, he took him up in his arms and blessed God and said,
“Lord, now you are letting your servant depart in peace, according to your word; for my eyes have seen your salvation that you have prepared in the presence of all peoples, a light for revelation to the Gentiles, and for glory to your people Israel.”

 

[praise_yeshua]

I believe that the Father is the only true God and that Jesus Christ is the one sent by God.

Why "MUST" you believe this?

What does it harm to allow Jesus Christ to share in the Essence/Nature/Character of God?

 

[amazing grace]

And both bear the title God/ YHWH. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. One means one. So it works both ways in 1 Cor 8:6.

Next fallacy

There is only one God . . . even in 1 Cor. 8:6 and in the context 1 Cor. 8:4. BTW----take your own definition to heart - ONE means ONE.

Yahweh is a personal NAME - not a title - and no one bears the NAME YHWH except the LORD God - the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob . . . this is my name forever and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations.

1 Cor. 8:6 that verse does not say that there are no other Lords as you are wanting it to say - it does not say that 'the Father cannot be the Lord' which you are implying . . . the scripture clearly admits there are many lords but there is only one Lord Jesus Christ unless you know of another Lord Jesus Christ somewhere?

 

[praise_yeshua]

There is only one God . . . even in 1 Cor. 8:6 and in the context 1 Cor. 8:4. BTW----take your own definition to heart - ONE means ONE.

Yahweh is a personal NAME - not a title - and no one bears the NAME YHWH except the LORD God - the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob . . . this is my name forever and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations.

1 Cor. 8:6 that verse does not say that there are no other Lords as you are wanting it to say - it does not say that 'the Father cannot be the Lord' which you are implying . . . the scripture clearly admits there are many lords but there is only one Lord Jesus Christ unless you know of another Lord Jesus Christ somewhere?

How do you know that YHWH is "exclusively" God? You're making many assumptions here. You're believing what others have told you. Not the evidence itself.

 

[amazing grace]

Why "MUST" you believe this?

What does it harm to allow Jesus Christ to share in the Essence/Nature/Character of God?

That's what Jesus said . . . I believe that the Father is the only true God and that Jesus Christ is the one sent by God. . . Eternal life is knowing that the Father is the only true God and knowing Jesus Christ whom he sent.

 

[praise_yeshua]

That's what Jesus said . . . I believe that the Father is the only true God and that Jesus Christ is the one sent by God. . . Eternal life is knowing that the Father is the only true God and knowing Jesus Christ whom he sent.

Okay. Say that is true for a moment. Lets get back to the "harm"......

Eternal life isn't just about knowing the Truth. In fact, I believe people have Eternal Life that don't actually know that much about God at all.

Don't we have to become as "little babies"? What does a "little baby" need to know?

Take this "journey" with me. Lets get to the bottom of this. I hear others in your words. I don't hear you.

 

[dwight92070]

I believe that the Father is the only true God and that Jesus Christ is the one sent by God.

Just like the Father is the only true Savior, right?

"I, even I, am the Lord, and there is no savior besides Me." Isaiah 43:11

 

[amazing grace]

Yes, eternal life requires knowing BOTH the Father, the only true God, and Jesus whom He has sent.

Yes, it does. BOTH = TWO they both can't be God or you have TWO gods.

Jesus said, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, ..." John 8:42

Yes, he proceeded forth and came from God - Matthew and Luke each record his conception and birth.

Compare that verse with this one: "When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me, " John 15:26

Yep, the promise of the Father which Jesus poured out on the day of Pentecost ---- sometimes referred to as 'he will baptize you with holy spirit'.

And this verse: "for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came forth from the Father. I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; ..." John 16:27-28

Yes, again he came forth from the Father and entered the world - Matthew and Luke each record his conception and birth.

This is how I think of what these verses say:

Imagine a huge sphere of very bright light in space and let's say that that represents God the Father, and His very essence and Being. Then imagine that we see a long patch of light, shaped like an icicle, coming out of the sphere, heading toward the Earth, and soon it lands softly on the earth. That represents the Word proceeding forth from the Father and coming into the world.

Then we see another icicle-shaped patch of light coming out of the sphere, and also headed to the earth, and landing softly on it. That represents the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father - the Holy Spirit.

So both the Word and the Holy Spirit were in the sphere and one with the Father - and still are. Yet, in addition to that, both were sent to enter into the world - the Word became flesh in the womb of Mary - Jesus, and the Holy Spirit came on Jesus and all who received and followed Him.

The Holy Spirit, the power of the Most High cause Mary to conceive.

God anointed Jesus with holy spirit at his baptism.

And while staying with them he ordered them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, “you heard from me; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”------Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.