All Claims of The Son's Deity

[mikesw]

. . . Jesus seemed to reason and dispute in a tight logical fashion as he sought to defend his claims against fierce opposition. Jesus obviously argued, from the Old Testament, the Bible of his time. Would not a Christian do the same thing, adding the New Testament Scriptures to his source of divine information? And if he claimed to believe in scriptural words understood in their normal, logical and grammatical sense, would it not be rather suspect to hear theologians telling us that the language is inadequate to explain the mystery of the Trinity? . . . Christianity, it is assumed, is based on the recorded teachings of Jesus, who claimed to be the Son of God and Messiah and who congratulated his leading disciples for their brilliant God-given insight in recognizing him as such------"the Christ [the Messiah], the Son of God" (Matt. 16:16-18). On that impregnable rock foundation Jesus promised to build his church. . . . . Jesus teh Messiah and the Son of God . . . Jesus claimed before his followers as well as before Jewish officials at his trial, to be the Messiah promised by his own Hebrew heritage in the Hebrew Bible. Jesus defined "Messiah" from that library of writings we call the Old Testament, whose limits Jesus defined precisely as 'the Law, prophets and the writings' (Luke 24:44). These precious documents had promised from the beginning that a unique Savior, King and final prophet would be born to Israel. Jesus obviously treated the Hebrew Bible as a repository of divine, authoritative truth about what his God, the Creator and the God of Israel, was doing in the history of humankind.

Jesus was not a Trinitarian, A Call to Return to the Creed of Jesus, Anthony Buzzard

I believe the one star comments on Amazon about this book. The comments of the author's flaws are what flaws we see with unitarians here. If you are a fan of the unitarian heresy, you will love this book.

 

[mikesw]

Yes, Jesus came down from heaven; Jesus came from God; God sent him; which is equivalent to 'I am from above --- I am not of this world. And he did come from heaven, he did come from God, God did send him, God gave his only Son via birth which is not a denial that he came from God - Mary conceived by God - God was his Father.
He was born as a human being - isn't denying Jesus came in the flesh, i.e. a human being antichrist?

Really? He did not come from heaven? Heaven refers to God and refers to that which is not of this world. You push Jesus solely into human existence by denying who Jesus's Father is in birth. But you say God did not father his son.
I'm not sure what your point about the flesh is. That seems off topic.

No idea what you're getting at . . . . the Son is not deity . . . HE HAS A FATHER WHO IS HIS FATHER AND HIS GOD.

Are you expecting the divine Son to deny his divine Father instead of acknowleding the Father?

You never quite get it right. John 1:1-18 does not say that Jesus is God.

The demonstration of the divinity of Christ in pre-existence is the complete message. Otherwise that passage could have been omitted.

You never quite get it right-----1) Jesus kept telling them he was the Christ, the Messiah-----2) they did not believe he was who he said he was. When Jesus told them he was the Christ, the Messiah - they knew that 'Messiah' did not mean he was God.

Thanks, but I think instead of always making accusations you may need to take a good look at yourself.
Where did Jesus speak of his deity in subtle ways? Why would he speak of his deity subtly instead of boldly - our very salvation depends upon belief in his deity (so the Trinitarians say)?

I'm sorry. I feel like you do not even read the passages that you post here. Try to be more convincing of your view.

I have no confidence in your ability to read this stuff and share it properly. You totally disregard anything Jesus said during his ministry.
He was still speaking when, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to him.” [Matt. 17:5] Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice.” [John 18:37]

You ain't listening.

 

[amazing grace]

I believe the one star comments on Amazon about this book. The comments of the author's flaws are what flaws we see with unitarians here. If you are a fan of the unitarian heresy, you will love this book.

Jesus Was Not a Trinitarian​

4.44.4 out of 5 stars
(91)
Paperback

Customers find the book scholarly and well-written, with one review describing it as the most in-depth work disproving the trinity. They appreciate its spiritual content, with one customer noting its deep dive into one God and another highlighting its focus on the human Messiah. However, the book receives mixed feedback regarding its credibility and value for money, with some finding it decent while others express disappointment. Moreover, customers find the writing repetitive, and one mentions the book could be shortened in length. Scholarly content (10); Writing quality (5) Pacing (3) Spirit (3) Credibility (11) Value for Money (9) Repetitive (4) Length (3) out of 91 total reviews.

I didn't buy the book for other people's opinions of the book - I bought it because it interests me and yes, I have enjoyed reading it.
Thanks.

 

[amazing grace]

Really? He did not come from heaven? Heaven refers to God and refers to that which is not of this world. You push Jesus solely into human existence by denying who Jesus's Father is in birth. But you say God did not father his son. I'm not sure what your point about the flesh is. That seems off topic.

Yes, Jesus came down from heaven; Jesus came from God; God sent him; which is equivalent to 'I am from above --- I am not of this world. And he did come from heaven, he did come from God, God did send him, God gave his only Son via birth which is not a denial that he came from God - Mary conceived by God - God was his Father.
He was born as a human being - isn't denying Jesus came in the flesh, i.e. a human being antichrist?

Not off topic at all.

Are you expecting the divine Son to deny his divine Father instead of acknowleding the Father?

The demonstration of the divinity of Christ in pre-existence is the complete message. Otherwise that passage could have been omitted.

Jesus only preexisted in the mind and plan of God his Father.

I'm sorry. I feel like you do not even read the passages that you post here. Try to be more convincing of your view.

You never quite get it right-----1) Jesus kept telling them he was the Christ, the Messiah-----2) they did not believe he was who he said he was. When Jesus told them he was the Christ, the Messiah - they knew that 'Messiah' did not mean he was God.

No passages in this little paragraph. . . so no I didn't post any passages in this.

You ain't listening.

Oh, I am listening.
You forgot to answer those questions I asked.

Where did Jesus speak of his deity in subtle ways? Why would he speak of his deity subtly instead of boldly - our very salvation depends upon belief in his deity (so the Trinitarians say)?

 

[Victoria]

Since God cannot die then Jesus Christ as a mortal being CAN die for our sins . . .

If the Arian god fails to be the saviour he claims to be in the Old Testament, then you're still dead in your sins until your Arian god shows up. If there's no god but the Arian god, what do you need Jesus Christ for? He certainly can't save you, given he's just a mortal being.

Did they think Jesus was God when he said:

I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he, you will die in your sins. So they said to him, WHO ARE YOU?

. . . hmmm they didn't draw the same conclusions as you and your Trinitarian friends ---- else they would have known he was God.

And just like in the parables Jesus spoke, they're meant to conceal truth, not reveal to those in unbelief. Same principle applies w/ the whole counsel of God. Set up idols in your Arian heart, & God will answer you according to those idols. Jesus isn't God? He'll blind you, & allow you to believe just that.

I and my Father are one.
Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
John 10:30-33


Sound familiar? The Jews knew exactly who Jesus was claiming to be. Only God Himself is the saviour. ONLY God, not mortal man. So now you have a dilemma, amazing... where is your saviour? You Arians have what Paul calls another Jesus.

 

[amazing grace]

If the Arian god fails to be the saviour he claims to be in the Old Testament, then you're still dead in your sins until your Arian god shows up. If there's no god but the Arian god, what do you need Jesus Christ for? He certainly can't save you, given he's just a mortal being.

My God is Yahweh . . . the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Yes, ultimately there is no Savior but him YET Yahweh chose and sent many saviors/deliverers to save and deliver his people out of their troubles. (the Hebrew word translated "savior" is yasha. It is applied to both God and men. The same is sometimes translated 'deliverer'.)
Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior. God is the Savior in that salvation was God's plan of redemption and reconciliation
for humanity.
1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. Jesus is the Savior God sent to carry out that plan --- both passages are true.

And just like in the parables Jesus spoke, they're meant to conceal truth, not reveal to those in unbelief. Same principle applies w/ the whole counsel of God. Set up idols in your Arian heart, & God will answer you according to those idols. Jesus isn't God? He'll blind you, & allow you to believe just that.

Are you saying that parables are meant to conceal truth? I thought parables were stories that taught moral or spiritual lessons.
I believe that God has revealed to us everything that pertains to life and godliness. He has revealed that he gave his only begotten Son so that those who believe in him should not perish but have eternal life.
As I said my God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I don't worship anything or anyone AS the only true God.
I believe that those who think Jesus is God are doing just that - worshiping a man AS God which is very different from honoring a man as God's Son.

I and my Father are one.
Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
John 10:30-33

Sound familiar? The Jews knew exactly who Jesus was claiming to be. Only God Himself is the saviour. ONLY God, not mortal man. So now you have a dilemma, amazing... where is your saviour? You Arians have what Paul calls another Jesus.

Oh yes, very familiar - Jesus and his Father are one in purpose and mission - in the care of their sheep. CONTEXT.
The unbelieving Jews accused Jesus (notice they knew he was a man) of making himself out to be God - making himself out to be someone he was not.
They ASKED HIM - How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly. Jesus answered them, I TOLD YOU, AND YOU DO NOT BELIEVE. The works that I do IN MY FATHER'S NAME bear witness about me . . .
Please note what they asked him in v. 24 ---- If you are the Christ . . . They asked Jesus repeatedly, Jesus told them repeatedly who he was - the Christ aka the Messiah but they kept saying he was making himself out to be something he was not, the Son of God, the Christ. They, like so many today, do not believe that a man, a human being, can be the Savior of the world, God's Messiah, but scripture says differently.

The new covenant was inaugurated by the shedding of blood - God is Spirit an immortal being - Jesus who is a mortal being shed his blood, died; God did not. So, you may be the one with a dilemma.

Now may the God of peace who brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, the great shepherd of the sheep, by the blood of the eternal covenant, [Hebrews 13:20]
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. [1 John 1:7]
but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. [Rom. 5:8-11]

You Trinitarians have what Paul calls another Jesus.

 

[Victoria]

My God is Yahweh . . . the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

This here is the problem, amazing. Yaweh is the god of weather, war, & fire. An idol adopted by the Israelites.
This reminds me of what Paul warns of in 1 Timothy 4:1-2.


Yahweh was an ancient Semitic deity of weather and war in the southeastern ancient Levant, and the national god of the iron age kingdoms of Israel and Judah. Although there is no clear consensus regarding the geographical origins of the deity, scholars generally hold that Yahweh was associated with Seir, Edom, Paran, and Teman, and later with Canaan. The worship of the deity goes back to at least the early Iron Age and apparently to the late Bronze Age.

Yahweh - god of weather, war, and fire


Which brings us to the "Sacred Name Movement." More on that later.

Yes, ultimately there is no Savior but him YET Yahweh chose and sent many saviors/deliverers to save and deliver his people out of their troubles. (the Hebrew word translated "savior" is yasha. It is applied to both God and men. The same is sometimes translated 'deliverer'.)
Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior. God is the Savior in that salvation was God's plan of redemption and reconciliation
for humanity.

And you now know that Yahweh is not the Father God of the Holy Bible.

God the Father did not send many saviours to die for the sins of humanity, just His only begotten Son.

Are you saying that parables are meant to conceal truth? I thought parables were stories that taught moral or spiritual lessons.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Even the disciples later had to ask! Only those w/ eyes to see, & ears to hear would understand.

Oh yes, very familiar - Jesus and his Father are one in purpose and mission - in the care of their sheep. CONTEXT.
The unbelieving Jews accused Jesus (notice they knew he was a man) of making himself out to be God - making himself out to be someone he was not.

That's good. Then you therefore acknowledge exactly who Jesus was claiming to be... I AM "aka" God Almighty.
The apostles too called Jesus God, & worshiped Him as God. Jesus never once rebuked them!


And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel,
I AM hath sent me unto you.
Exodus 3:14

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
John 8:58

The Seven Metaphorical "I AM" Statements:

I am the bread of life (John 6:35)
I am the light of the world (John 8:12)
I am the door of the sheep (John 10:7)
I am the good shepherd (John 10:11)
I am the resurrection, and the life (John 11:25)
I am the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6)
I am the true vine (John 15:1)

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
John 8:24

They ASKED HIM - How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly. Jesus answered them, I TOLD YOU, AND YOU DO NOT BELIEVE. The works that I do IN MY FATHER'S NAME bear witness about me . . .
Please note what they asked him in v. 24 ---- If you are the Christ . . . They asked Jesus repeatedly, Jesus told them repeatedly who he was - the Christ aka the Messiah but they kept saying he was making himself out to be something he was not, the Son of God, the Christ. They, like so many today, do not believe that a man, a human being, can be the Savior of the world, God's Messiah, but scripture says differently.

And just like the unbelieving Israelite's, you Arians too deny Him. God then keeps the truth hidden from those who believe not.

The new covenant was inaugurated by the shedding of blood - God is Spirit an immortal being - Jesus who is a mortal being shed his blood, died; God did not. So, you may be the one with a dilemma.

Now may the God of peace who brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, the great shepherd of the sheep, by the blood of the eternal covenant, [Hebrews 13:20]
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. [1 John 1:7]
but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. [Rom. 5:8-11]

You Trinitarians have what Paul calls another Jesus.

Nah, the apostles never denied Jesus as God like the Arians do.

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers,
to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Acts 20:28

See, you Arians remind me of the pigeon/chessboard analogy. I honestly don't see how you can be so boastful, having something in common w/ cults, as well as the rest of lost humanity.

 

[Runningman]

This here is the problem, amazing. Yaweh is the god of weather, war, & fire. An idol adopted by the Israelites.
This reminds me of what Paul warns of in 1 Timothy 4:1-2.


Yahweh was an ancient Semitic deity of weather and war in the southeastern ancient Levant, and the national god of the iron age kingdoms of Israel and Judah. Although there is no clear consensus regarding the geographical origins of the deity, scholars generally hold that Yahweh was associated with Seir, Edom, Paran, and Teman, and later with Canaan. The worship of the deity goes back to at least the early Iron Age and apparently to the late Bronze Age.

Yahweh - god of weather, war, and fire


Which brings us to the "Sacred Name Movement." More on that later.

And you now know that Yahweh is not the Father God of the Holy Bible.

God the Father did not send many saviours to die for the sins of humanity, just His only begotten Son.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Even the disciples later had to ask! Only those w/ eyes to see, & ears to hear would understand.

That's good. Then you therefore acknowledge exactly who Jesus was claiming to be... I AM "aka" God Almighty.
The apostles too called Jesus God, & worshiped Him as God. Jesus never once rebuked them!


And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel,
I AM hath sent me unto you.
Exodus 3:14

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
John 8:58

The Seven Metaphorical "I AM" Statements:

I am the bread of life (John 6:35)
I am the light of the world (John 8:12)
I am the door of the sheep (John 10:7)
I am the good shepherd (John 10:11)
I am the resurrection, and the life (John 11:25)
I am the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6)
I am the true vine (John 15:1)

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
John 8:24

And just like the unbelieving Israelite's, you Arians too deny Him. God then keeps the truth hidden from those who believe not.

Nah, the apostles never denied Jesus as God like the Arians do.

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers,
to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Acts 20:28

See, you Arians remind me of the pigeon/chessboard analogy. I honestly don't see how you can be so boastful, having something in common w/ cults, as well as the rest of lost humanity.

I think it's possible to assign meaning to things that others never assigned meaning to, like you're doing for examples. The divinely inspired writers didn't say anything that would possibly conflate Jesus with God. I will hit just two points.

1. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is YHWH, the I AM, and it says so in Exodus 3:14,15, that that is His name forever.
2. Jesus is never called by the titles of the God of Abraham, YHWH, or the I AM.
3. Acts 3:13 clearly identifies Jesus as the son or servant of the God of Abraham.
4. So Jesus isn't God based on the testimony of Scripture. No other conclusion.

I would also add that God doesn't have blood, hence Jesus purchased for God, not God purchased for Himself.

Revelation 5
9And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

 

[Victoria]

For anyone else interested...

Found under: Discussion of Controversial Topics/Controversial Teaching

Yahweh Is His Name (Sacred Name Movement)

 

[Victoria]

1. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is YHWH

'nuff said

 

[Runningman]

'nuff said

Amen. Kind interesting how YHWH is only ever called Father in the Bible, but never Son. And the Father is the only true God. Must mean God is just one person.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Can you show me where the Textus Receptus attacks the Godhead? The Gospel? Salvation? Etc.?
Can you show me where the Textus Receptus makes Jesus out to be a liar? A sinner? In danger of judgment? Etc.?

I also enjoy reading the Geneva, & Bishops Bible b/c I happen to love older English. Unlike you, I studied the versions debate out several years ago by doing side by side comparisons. The opposite set of manuscripts didn't fair too well.


There are three main groups concerning the Bible:

1. Those who hold that the modern translations, based on the text of Westcott and Hort (aka., Critical Text, Nestle-Aland), are more reliable than the Authorized Version of 1611 (KJV) translation, which is based upon the Greek Textus Receptus and Hebrew Masoretic Text;

2. Those who hold that the KJV is most reliable (in English) because it was translated from the Greek Textus Receptus and Hebrew Masoretic Text,

3. Those who hold that a translation such as the KJV was given by inspiration and is the preserved Word of God and is the final authority in our present world, not the Hebrew Masoretic Text and Greek Textus Receptus.

The second is the right position, the one that Scripture attests to. The third one is wrong, which I debunk in this linked report. The first one, the modern version position based upon the Critical Text, is a diabolical attack on God’s Word and under the condemnation of Rev 22:18-19 — full article under King James Only (KJO)

I was a KJVOist when I was a teenage. I've study this subject more than just "several years".

The Byzantine tradition is more mature in the Gospel than in the remaining letters of the NT canon. I recommend you get to know Codex Alexandrinus. It is the oldests and best witness to the Byzantine manuscript evidence you're looking for.

This "battle" that exist between men on this subject is full of exaggerations and personality from their leaders. I could bore you with years of experience about this but I'll let you have your own struggles. Don't listen to me. Your choice.

Manuscripts are only part of the issue here. Get to know "Semantic Range" and word choices in translations between languages. This requires more than just knowing Early Modern English. Embrace the Greek OT and complete your journey of connecting God's Revelation in script to humanity. In the KJV, you're reading what others wanted their people to read. Don't listen entirely to them. Make your own choices.

I mentioned "mansion" for a reason to another poster. I engage that person from time to time to try and change them. It is what it is.

Mansion comes from Latin. Latin has a huge influence upon English. Especially upon our legal system and the various jargon associated with it.

Mansion comes from the Latin word "manor". However, the Greek source doesn't present such nonsense. Don't buy into the influence the Vulgate had upon English culture and the junk that ended up in your KJV Bible. Search the issue yourself. Such has caused many problems with English men judging God by their earthly "kings" and their "stately manors".

Think about the wounds our Lord still carries in His Resurrection. Think of the humility that has been on full display among the apostles and saints of God throughout many generations since Christ. Don't get caught up in this nonsense of seeing earthly things and earthly treasures in heavenly things. Learn that peace, joy and comfort is more fulfilling in humility than in exaltation.

Start by comparing the words in the KJV of having a "mansion" between the editions you mentioned above. You will find a very meaningful difference. Then turn over to Hebrews 13 and read the entire chapter while noticing the various forms of the English word "rule". Then compare such to the editions/translation from the same TR tradition in the Early Modern English editions from the same period. Notice the varying word choices.

Then make your own choice to learn what others will not tell you from the sources/God or be a nice little follower of man. Your choice.

 

[civic]

Jesus Was Not a Trinitarian​

4.44.4 out of 5 stars
(91)
Paperback

Customers find the book scholarly and well-written, with one review describing it as the most in-depth work disproving the trinity. They appreciate its spiritual content, with one customer noting its deep dive into one God and another highlighting its focus on the human Messiah. However, the book receives mixed feedback regarding its credibility and value for money, with some finding it decent while others express disappointment. Moreover, customers find the writing repetitive, and one mentions the book could be shortened in length. Scholarly content (10); Writing quality (5) Pacing (3) Spirit (3) Credibility (11) Value for Money (9) Repetitive (4) Length (3) out of 91 total reviews.

I didn't buy the book for other people's opinions of the book - I bought it because it interests me and yes, I have enjoyed reading it.
Thanks.

I guess I need to gather my notes over the years and write a book.

Jesus was the first Trinitarian. He was a trinitarian before the world existed.

It would get a 5/5 Stars.

 

[amazing grace]

This here is the problem, amazing. Yaweh is the god of weather, war, & fire. An idol adopted by the Israelites.
This reminds me of what Paul warns of in 1 Timothy 4:1-2.

Yahweh was an ancient Semitic deity of weather and war in the southeastern ancient Levant, and the national god of the iron age kingdoms of Israel and Judah. Although there is no clear consensus regarding the geographical origins of the deity, scholars generally hold that Yahweh was associated with Seir, Edom, Paran, and Teman, and later with Canaan. The worship of the deity goes back to at least the early Iron Age and apparently to the late Bronze Age.

Yahweh - god of weather, war, and fire

Which brings us to the "Sacred Name Movement." More on that later.

And you now know that Yahweh is not the Father God of the Holy Bible.

My God is Yahweh . . . the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Yahweh is the Father of scripture - Yahweh is God's name. Known as the Tetragrammaton . . . 4-letter Hebrew name for God - clearly shown in scripture as LORD (Jehovah/Yahweh) which appears some 7,000x and is how God wants his name to be remembered throughout all generations: The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob has sent me to you. This is my name forever and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations.
You may want to watch out where you get you information from online.

God the Father did not send many saviours to die for the sins of humanity, just His only begotten Son.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Even the disciples later had to ask! Only those w/ eyes to see, & ears to hear would understand.

That's good. Then you therefore acknowledge exactly who Jesus was claiming to be... I AM "aka" God Almighty.
The apostles too called Jesus God, & worshiped Him as God. Jesus never once rebuked them!

Yes, ultimately there is no Savior but him YET Yahweh chose and sent many saviors/deliverers to save and deliver his people out of their troubles. (the Hebrew word translated "savior" is yasha. It is applied to both God and men. The same is sometimes translated 'deliverer'.)
Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior. God is the Savior in that salvation was God's plan of redemption and reconciliation for humanity.
1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. Jesus is the Savior God sent to carry out that plan --- both passages are true.

I can only recommend that you do a word study on 'savior and deliverer'. If God's word says he sent out saviors/deliverers then he did.
Correct, Jesus did die for the sins of humanity - God sent him to deliver/save his people - Jesus was the pinnacle of all saviors.

And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel,
I AM hath sent me unto you.
Exodus 3:14

This phrase is a declaration of God's self-existence and sufficiency. It can be interpreted as "I exist" or as "I will be who I will be," signifying God's power to be present and active in all circumstances . . . So God was saying 'I EXIST' or to tie it in with V12 'I WILL BE WHO I WILL BE ---- I WILL BE ----- I WILL BE WITH YOU.
In verse 15 - he further said to Moses - The LORD (Yahweh), the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob has sent me to you. This is my name forever and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations.

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
John 8:58

In that statement was Jesus saying he was God? How was Jesus 'before Abraham'? Does that statement literally mean that he 'existed' before Abraham? OR could it mean that Jesus was 'before Abraham' in the foreknowledge and plan of God?
How many other times has the expression "I am" been said by countless others? ego eimi is simply a very common identification of one's self. When someone ask 'Are you George'? and if you are George - you say 'I am'. "I AM" does not mean "God".

You may want to make sure of your conclusion before you align with those of John 8 - they believed he was a Samaritan; they believed he had a demon, and by this time they just believed he was crazy. AND what did Jesus say of THEM!!!!

The Seven Metaphorical "I AM" Statements:

I am the bread of life (John 6:35)
I am the light of the world (John 8:12)
I am the door of the sheep (John 10:7)
I am the good shepherd (John 10:11)
I am the resurrection, and the life (John 11:25)
I am the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6)
I am the true vine (John 15:1)

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
John 8:24

You forgot one. The very first time Jesus responded with I am in the gospel of John: (the Samaritan woman) The woman said to him, I know that Messiah is coming he who is called Christ. When he comes, he will tell us all things. Jesus said to her "I who speak to you am he'. . . I am he - ego eimi. Who did he identify himself as? The Messiah who is called Christ.

And just like the unbelieving Israelite's, you Arians too deny Him. God then keeps the truth hidden from those who believe not.

Nah, the apostles never denied Jesus as God like the Arians do.

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers,
to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Acts 20:28

See, you Arians remind me of the pigeon/chessboard analogy. I honestly don't see how you can be so boastful, having something in common w/ cults, as well as the rest of lost humanity.

I am a Biblical Unitarian.

The apostles never confessed Jesus to be God. What did Peter say when Jesus asked him who they thought he was?
Acts 20:28 . . . God cannot bleed - God is Spirit.

SOOOO, God didn't purchase his church with HIS blood but with the blood of his own son. It was Jesus, God's Son, God's Christ, who shed his blood on the cross for the sins of humanity.

Yea, it really is futile, but truth matters.

 

[amazing grace]

I guess I need to gather my notes over the years and write a book.

Jesus was the first Trinitarian. He was a trinitarian before the world existed.

It would get a 5/5 Stars.

If you want to write a fictional book - go ahead and write your book - probably would get 5/5 stars only because Trinitarianism is in the majority!
But numbers or ratings have nothing to do with truth. Jesus wasn't a Trinitarian. He was Jewish so he would have been praying the Shema ("Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is One") morning and night along with every devout Jewish person.

 

[civic]

If you want to write a fictional book - go ahead and write your book - probably would get 5/5 stars only because Trinitarianism is in the majority!
But numbers or ratings have nothing to do with truth. Jesus wasn't a Trinitarian. He was Jewish so he would have been praying the Shema ("Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is One") morning and night along with every devout Jewish person.

no the fiction is 100% within the camp of those who deny the Deity of the Son of God.

the Shema in 1 Corinthians 8:6 includes the Son.

end of discussion as your own pet verse supports Trins, not uni's.

next fallacy

 

[amazing grace]

no the fiction is 100% within the camp of those who deny the Deity of the Son of God.

the Shema in 1 Corinthians 8:6 includes the Son.

end of discussion as your own pet verse supports Trins, not uni's.

next fallacy

Non Fiction/Truth: “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one".
Fiction/non truth: "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is Triune."

Jesus and the Shema:
Non Fiction/Truth: “Which commandment is the most important of all?” Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
Fiction/non truth: “Which commandment is the most important of all?” Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is Triune."

1 Corinthians 8:6 is not the Shema . . . it tells us that there are many gods and there are many lords . . . yet for us (for us in the church the body of Christ) - distinguishing from the many gods - there is one God, the Father and yet for us - distinguishing from the many lords - there is one Lord, Jesus Christ.

The Shema does not support the doctrine of the Trinity.

 

[praise_yeshua]

If you want to write a fictional book - go ahead and write your book - probably would get 5/5 stars only because Trinitarianism is in the majority!
But numbers or ratings have nothing to do with truth. Jesus wasn't a Trinitarian. He was Jewish so he would have been praying the Shema ("Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is One") morning and night along with every devout Jewish person.

I would say that isn't true at all. Trinitarianism is most definitely in the minority. You must include Buddhism, Judaism and Islam within Unitarianism.

You should know this. Either you're avoiding the facts or making up your own.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Non Fiction/Truth: “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one".
Fiction/non truth: "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is Triune."

Jesus and the Shema:
Non Fiction/Truth: “Which commandment is the most important of all?” Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
Fiction/non truth: “Which commandment is the most important of all?” Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is Triune."

1 Corinthians 8:6 is not the Shema . . . it tells us that there are many gods and there are many lords . . . yet for us (for us in the church the body of Christ) - distinguishing from the many gods - there is one God, the Father and yet for us - distinguishing from the many lords - there is one Lord, Jesus Christ.

The Shema does not support the doctrine of the Trinity.

The very word "Lord" should mean something to you that you obviously don't know..... κύριος

Know it.

 

[amazing grace]

I would say that isn't true at all. Trinitarianism is most definitely in the minority. You must include Buddhism, Judaism and Islam within Unitarianism.

You should know this. Either you're avoiding the facts or making up your own.

I was not stating 'gospel truth' here . . . generally speaking within Christianity . . . Trinitarianism is the majority.