All Claims of The Son's Deity

[mikesw]

I do confess with my mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe with all of my heart that God raised him from the dead. I actually am a Christian and don't deny Jesus like you and some others say I do.

You can confess Jesus as God. That is good if you have started to do that.
If you confess Jesus as lord in some vague way, you just do the same things JWs and Mormonites do -- you speak of allegiance to a false Jesus.

but I think we just understand the wording of the Bible different ways. That's really the bottom line about it.

You however deny the testimony of the divinity of Christ in the Godhead. That is just your pursuing and defending of misunderstanding. Hopefully this is not sufficient to be excluded from Christ. But you reject the arguments of Christ's preexistence and replace the idea with goofy concepts.
If your ideas were not against central doctrine of who Christ is ... and if you were close to truth ... and if you had decent arguments ... we would not be discussing this in such detail.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes, Jesus is God's begotten Son. It's nice to see you say that. So Jesus is begotten? Tell me more.

As soon as you recognize the word only. I will be glad to. Why are you leaving out "only"?

 

[Aeliana]

How many sons does the Bible say God has? More than one. So "Jesus is the Son of God while others are also the Sons of God" isn't an argument that logically follows to a "God the Son" conclusion.

God has many sons and daughters.

God has one only-begotten son named Jesus. The sons of God mentioned in Genesis 6:1–4 are angels that God created who became fallen angels who procreated with human females, producing giants called Nephilim.

Genesis 6:1–4
1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown

 

[Runningman]

You can confess Jesus as God. That is good if you have started to do that.
If you confess Jesus as lord in some vague way, you just do the same things JWs and Mormonites do -- you speak of allegiance to a false Jesus.

The Bible doesn't teach to confess Jesus as God. The Bible doesn't teach that Jesus is God at all. If you are confessing that "Jesus is God" then you are confessing allegiance to an idol and that is a sin. It is pardonable if you repent.

Let's see if we can get through to you with more Jesus isn't the immortal God since he died and was resurrected by God.

Romans 1
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images of mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

You however deny the testimony of the divinity of Christ in the Godhead. That is just your pursuing and defending of misunderstanding. Hopefully this is not sufficient to be excluded from Christ. But you reject the arguments of Christ's preexistence and replace the idea with goofy concepts.
If your ideas were not against central doctrine of who Christ is ... and if you were close to truth ... and if you had decent arguments ... we would not be discussing this in such detail.

Where you lose the argument is that you don't have any scripture of Jesus being "In the Godhead" nor does your definition of "Godhead" match what the Bible says.

This is why you will always be begging the question in any argument you decide to produce about a trinity god. You simply lack any Biblical evidence that one exists in the first place.

If you want to start at square one against and try to find some scripture that describes God as a trinity then you are free to try again. I believe most of us have already read the Bible so I don't expect you to actually find anything.

 

[Runningman]

As soon as you recognize the word only. I will be glad to. Why are you leaving out "only"?

How is that relevant? Let's focus on the matter of the Son being begotten. You're so close to finally confessing that the Son has a beginning point and is not an eternal being. Are you going to deny that Jesus is begotten now or believe what the Bible testifies about the Son's creation?

 

[Runningman]

God has many sons and daughters.

God has one only-begotten son named Jesus. The sons of God mentioned in Genesis 6:1–4 are angels that God created who became fallen angels who procreated with human females, producing giants called Nephilim.

Genesis 6:1–4
1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown

Right, God has many sons and daughters of God and they aren't God. Trinitarians have a double standard and inconsistently redefine Biblical concepts in order to suit their philosophy. If one were to begin in Genesis and keep reading, it will be clear that any of the sons and daughters of God are not God. By the time the read about Jesus being the son of God, based on all precedent, one conclude the term Son of God means that Jesus isn't God. That's the way to properly exegete Scripture consistently.

 

[praise_yeshua]

How is that relevant? Let's focus on the matter of the Son being begotten. You're so close to finally confessing that the Son has a beginning point and is not an eternal being. Are you going to deny that Jesus is begotten now or believe what the Bible testifies about the Son's creation?

You must include "only". It is part of the Scripture's description of Jesus Christ.

You're not like Jesus yet you want everyone to believe you are. That is why you're ignoring clearly stated words that present an accurate description of Jesus Christ.

YOU are not THE.... ONLY Begotten Son.

You're of a lesser sort.

I know you're having a hard time keeping your lies "straight" but this is ridiculous. "Only" is irrelevant...... geesh.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Right, God has many sons and daughters of God and they aren't God. Trinitarians have a double standard and inconsistently redefine Biblical concepts in order to suit their philosophy. If one were to begin in Genesis and keep reading, it will be clear that any of the sons and daughters of God are not God. By the time the read about Jesus being the son of God, based on all precedent, one conclude the term Son of God means that Jesus isn't God. That's the way to properly exegete Scripture consistently.

God has ONLY ONE begotten son in the exact image of God. That doesn't include YOU.

Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Notice the words of the writer of Hebrews. "express image".

So go ahead... tell me it is irrelevant.

 

[mikesw]

The Bible doesn't teach to confess Jesus as God. The Bible doesn't teach that Jesus is God at all. If you are confessing that "Jesus is God" then you are confessing allegiance to an idol and that is a sin. It is pardonable if you repent.

Let's see if we can get through to you with more Jesus isn't the immortal God since he died and was resurrected by God.

Romans 1
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images of mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

Not only do you misunderstand the passage in Romans, your passage has no relevance to making an argument in any fashion about Jesus. Thanks for this example of failed exegesis and failed argument.

Where you lose the argument is that you don't have any scripture of Jesus being "In the Godhead" nor does your definition of "Godhead" match what the Bible says.

This is why you will always be begging the question in any argument you decide to produce about a trinity god. You simply lack any Biblical evidence that one exists in the first place.

If you want to start at square one against and try to find some scripture that describes God as a trinity then you are free to try again. I believe most of us have already read the Bible so I don't expect you to actually find anything.

You have no argument to give basis to explain the pre-existence Jesus speaks of himself. His existence as God (John 1:1-18, especially) and his pre-existence have to be understood within the superficial reading of scripture that, at first, can obscure the Two Powers in Heaven (concept). Nothing denies that God can exist in Triune form. Only unitarians can deny that. Otherwise, they have to say scripture is pointing to polytheism

 

[dwight92070]

You're just begging the question still. Where did anyone state God is a they or them, three, or defined God as three persons? The Bible says God is the Father so that's the way real Christians define God.

You're expecting, really demanding that God explain Himself to you, on your terms. Too bad, He doesn't owe you or any of us a detailed explanation of Himself. Even the Trinity is not a detailed description of God. What He is after is your faith - not blind faith, as if there was no evidence - but faith based on an abundance of evidence. So when you reject the evidence, you are rejecting Him and committing sin.

 

[mikesw]

You're expecting, really demanding that God explain Himself to you, on your terms. Too bad, He doesn't owe you or any of us a detailed explanation of Himself. Even the Trinity is not a detailed description of God. What He is after is your faith - not blind faith, as if there was no evidence - but faith based on an abundance of evidence. So when you reject the evidence, you are rejecting Him and committing sin.

This becomes like boastful gnostic knowledge of some insight special to them and supersedes verses showing the divinity of Christ. If they could provide a convincing argument, that would not be putting them in this gnostic arena.

 

[Runningman]

You must include "only". It is part of the Scripture's description of Jesus Christ.

You're not like Jesus yet you want everyone to believe you are. That is why you're ignoring clearly stated words that present an accurate description of Jesus Christ.

YOU are not THE.... ONLY Begotten Son.

You're of a lesser sort.

I know you're having a hard time keeping your lies "straight" but this is ridiculous. "Only" is irrelevant...... geesh.

We will be focusing on Jesus being begotten and how there is also a timeline to what Scripture states. Does God have any other begotten sons? Or was Paul joking around or not being literal when he called them God's offspring?

Acts 17
29Therefore, being offspring of God, we should not think that the Divine Being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by man’s skill and imagination.

 

[Runningman]

God has ONLY ONE begotten son in the exact image of God. That doesn't include YOU.

Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Notice the words of the writer of Hebrews. "express image".

So go ahead... tell me it is irrelevant.

Well, I am pleased to see you used the version of Hebrews 1:3 that says God is a person. That's what I believe too.

 

[Runningman]

Not only do you misunderstand the passage in Romans, your passage has no relevance to making an argument in any fashion about Jesus. Thanks for this example of failed exegesis and failed argument.

Show the verse that says to believe Jesus is God as part of the gospel. Don't make another argument that goes on for weeks either. Just get to the point.

You have no argument to give basis to explain the pre-existence Jesus speaks of himself. His existence as God (John 1:1-18, especially) and his pre-existence have to be understood within the superficial reading of scripture that, at first, can obscure the Two Powers in Heaven (concept). Nothing denies that God can exist in Triune form. Only unitarians can deny that. Otherwise, they have to say scripture is pointing to polytheism

Show the verse from the Old Testament that shows Jesus pre-existing then. Don't make another argument that goes on for weeks either. Just get to the point.

 

[praise_yeshua]

We will be focusing on Jesus being begotten and how there is also a timeline to what Scripture states. Does God have any other begotten sons? Or was Paul joking around or not being literal when he called them God's offspring?

Acts 17
29Therefore, being offspring of God, we should not think that the Divine Being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by man’s skill and imagination.

There is no "we" here. You're deflecting. What does "only" represent?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Well, I am pleased to see you used the version of Hebrews 1:3 that says God is a person. That's what I believe too.

I didn't read the word "person" anywhere in that verse. Point it out.

 

[Runningman]

There is no "we" here. You're deflecting. What does "only" represent?

I am telling you how it's going down. You're going to have to stop reading my posts if you want to opt out.

 

[Runningman]

I didn't read the word "person" anywhere in that verse. Point it out.

This is the version you used, affirming the personhood of God and how Jesus is an express image of a different person than himself.

Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

 

[praise_yeshua]

We will be focusing on Jesus being begotten and how there is also a timeline to what Scripture states. Does God have any other begotten sons? Or was Paul joking around or not being literal when he called them God's offspring?

Acts 17
29Therefore, being offspring of God, we should not think that the Divine Being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by man’s skill and imagination.

Do the offspring of God die? What is the difference between gold, silver and stone than ashes. Ashes is what you're going to become.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I am telling you how it's going down. You're going to have to stop reading my posts if you want to opt out.

I know you want to control everything. I can show how to resist your evil ways.