All Claims of The Son's Deity

[Wilber]

"I and my Father are one" is the statement Jesus made in John 10:30, which is interpreted to mean Jesus and God the Father are one in essence, power, and nature. This declaration means Jesus is God and was met with outrage by his audience, who understood it as His claim to divinity that they considered a blasphemous act. The statement signifies a perfect union of will, purpose, and substance between Jesus and God.

 

[Wilber]

ditto . . .

God with us, aka God was IN Christ. Apparently more than Jesus was using ego eimi . . . It is used 98 times just in the Gospel of John!!! The definition of ego eimi is not 'the Great I am'. It is a means of self identification. If someone ask me - Are you amazing grace on the forum? I would say I am. . . . simple as that.

Was he saying he was literally before Abraham or was he before Abraham in prophecy, i.e. in the foreknowledge of God? Is Jesus explicitly saying that he is God or is that the conclusion being inferred?

So if someone asked Jesus if He is God he would say I am.

 

[Rory Wilson]

“In the beginning was the Word (that is, the Logos), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” John1:1

I see the the Trinity right there, because the Logos is said to have been with God from the beginning. And we all know who "the Logos" is right? Jesus is God!

 

[amazing grace]

So if someone asked Jesus if He is God he would say I am.

No he would not.

 

[FreeInChrist]

ditto . . .

God with us, aka God was IN Christ. Apparently more than Jesus was using ego eimi . . . It is used 98 times just in the Gospel of John!!! The definition of ego eimi is not 'the Great I am'. It is a means of self identification. If someone ask me - Are you amazing grace on the forum? I would say I am. . . . simple as that.

ERGO: Jesus was saying He was God.

God Said.... Exodus 3:14-15 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15, And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Jesus Said... The first time....
In John 6:16-21, the disciples rowed a boat to Capernaum in the middle of a storm. They were frightened when they saw Jesus walking near them on the water. “But he said to them, “It is I; do not be afraid.” (John 6:20 ESV)

This is the first appearance of the phrase ego eimi, I am. Jesus is clearly doing something only God could do: walking on water.

Jesus Said definitively....
in John 8, at the end of a long and contentious debate with the Jews gathered at the temple. The discussion took a dangerous turn, which pivoted on the utterance of ego eimi.

“‘Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.’ So the Jews said to him, ‘You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?’ Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.’

John 8 : 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

= Jesus is God. Period
@civic "This verse is the dagger. Unless you believe I Am ( YHWH ) you will die in your sins. John 8:24
Interlinear "
The Greek phrase "ego eimi" can be translated as "I am" or "I am He," depending on the context. However, in many instances, especially in the Gospel of John, it is often interpreted with theological significance, suggesting a deeper meaning related to identity and existence. Ai

• "I Am He": This translation can be appropriate in contexts where the speaker is identifying themselves in response to a question, such as "Who are you?" In these cases, "I am he" conveys a sense of identification.
• "I Am": In John 8:58, where Jesus states "Before Abraham was, I am," the translation "I am" is preferred. This usage is often linked to the divine name in Exodus 3:14, where God says, "I AM who I AM."

The phrase is sometimes capitalized as "I AM" in translations to emphasize its connection to the divine
While "ego eimi" can be translated as "I am he" in some contexts, it is more commonly and theologically significant when translated as "I am," especially in references to Jesus' identity and divinity.

1473 [e] 1510 [e]
egō eimi

I am [He]

The phrase "ego eimi" appears twenty-four times in the Gospel of John.

The exact phrase "ego eimi" occurs 48 times in the New Testament. It also occurs 11 times as "eimi ego"

Was he saying he was literally before Abraham or was he before Abraham in prophecy, i.e. in the foreknowledge of God? Is Jesus explicitly saying that he is God or is that the conclusion being inferred?

Self explanatory.

 

[Rory Wilson]

No he would not.

Sure He would, He can not lie.

 

[Grace ambassador]

The SON's Deity? Concerning the Undiluted Wrath of God, we humbly and kindly ask:

And, what will the 'dead' unbelievers have? - "For excuse" at:

The Great White Throne Judgment, When Three Books Are Opened:

(1) The Word Of God, Which Plainly And Clearly Shows:

​

A) Only "God Is The Righteous Judge" ​

(Romans 2:3, 5; Hebrews 12:23, 13:4; Revelation 18:8 AV)​

​

B) All Judgment Was Committed To The SON! (John 5:22-23 AV)​

Why? = To Honor The SON!!​

​

C) Revelation 20:11-12 Clearly And Plainly Teaches This Warning:​

​

"And I saw a Great White Throne, and Him That Sat On It, from Whose Face the​

earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw​

the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another​

book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were Judged out of those​

things which were written in the books, according to their works."​

​

(2) the book "of their life" which shows: 'works' of Denial Of all the above,

refusing "Grace Through faith" Redemption By God's OWN BLOOD ​

(Ephesians 2:5-9; Acts 20:28 AV) For Eternal Life?​

(3) The Lamb's (God, The SON's) Book Of Life Is Opened Showing "they were Blotted Out"?

Will, they, "being cast Into The Lake Of Fire" (v 15) At That Time, still continue to "Deny His Deity,
As The Almighty God" still "Dishonoring The Father Whom they claimed they worshipped on earth"?:



Still praying that God's Grace, Peace, Mercy And Love Prevails For All To "Believe!"

While It Is Still Today = The Day Of God's Salvation Which Is The Undiluted Grace Of God!

Amen.

 

[amazing grace]

“In the beginning was the Word (that is, the Logos), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” John1:1

I see the the Trinity right there, because the Logos is said to have been with God from the beginning. And we all know who "the Logos" is right? Jesus is God!

For one thing I don't read - In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with God and Jesus was God. I do not believe at this point that the word was a literal person.

John 1:1a ---- In the beginning - Gen. 1 and God said, and God said, and God said, etc. . . i.e. the word as in God's creative power, God's creative speech.
1:1b And the word was with God - just as your word is with you
1:1c and the word was God. The word was fully expressive of God or an expression of God.

Employing Colwell Definite Article rule: No definite article in front of the word "God" therefore God is used in a adjectival manner.
(William Barclay, Professor of Divinity and Biblical Criticism at the University of Glasgow, When in Greek two nouns are joined by the verb to be and when both have the definite article then the one is fully identified with the other; but when one of them is without the article it becomes more an adjective than a noun . . .[Jesus as They Saw Him, pg 21,22; The Restitution; Christology of John pg. 314]

Good for you that you see the Trinity there - it is not explicitly stated - you have made an implicit conclusion.

 

[amazing grace]

"I and my Father are one" is the statement Jesus made in John 10:30, which is interpreted to mean Jesus and God the Father are one in essence, power, and nature. This declaration means Jesus is God and was met with outrage by his audience, who understood it as His claim to divinity that they considered a blasphemous act. The statement signifies a perfect union of will, purpose, and substance between Jesus and God.

The reference in John 10:30 from the context is that no one will snatch them out of my hand . . . My Father who has given them to me, is greater than all and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand . . . Jesus and his Father are one in purpose and mission of taking care of the sheep.

John 17 Jesus prays that we may be one as he and his Father are one - that they may all be one just as you, Father are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so the world may know that you have sent me . . . The glory you have given me I have given to them that they may be one even as we are one.

 

[Runningman]

There is another “I am” statement in John 8. Abraham was the great patriarch of Israel, the father of the faithful, who was deeply venerated by the Jewish community of Jesus’ day. Jesus told the Jewish leaders that Abraham had rejoiced to see His day.

When the leaders asked how Jesus could possibly have seen Abraham, He replied, “Before Abraham was, I am”.

He did not say, “Before Abraham was, I was.” Rather, He said, “I am.” In doing so, He made a claim to eternality and deity. What many people miss today, the people that Jesus was talking to caught on rather quickly. They were filled with fury against Jesus because He, a mere man in their eyes, made Himself equal with God.

We should understand Jesus by what he explicitly stated. We know that Jesus denied equality with God in John 14:28 saying, "The Father is greater than I." So we can reasonably conclude that Jesus wasn't suggesting that he is equal with God elsewhere.

The full context of John 8, leading up to the "I am" statement in John 8:58, is not in line with Jesus making a claim to deity. Jesus stated in John 8:28, "the Father has taught me." So here we have an example of Jesus not being omniscient about what God knows because Jesus needed to be "taught" by the Father. Jesus had to learn, he had to be taught something he didn't already know.

Next, Jesus explicitly identified himself as a man in John 8:40 "you are trying to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God." Similar to what Jesus had previously stated about being taught by the Father, Jesus said he is telling them the truth he heard from God. Here Jesus equates God with being the Father. Any time Jesus mentions God, he is speaking of the Father only in every context, but never a trinity. Jesus defines God as the Father, that's why we do too.

So John 8:58 is not a claim to deity. We know based on the context that Jesus demonstrated himself to be a man who received teachings from God, so it would be pretty unusual for Jesus to make a claim to deity, abruptly, without precedent, in contradiction to his denials of being deity just before this.

If it helps, you can look at Exodus 3:14,15 where the I AM is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. These are titles never given to Jesus in the whole Bible. In Acts 3:13, Jesus is entirely distinct from the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. So Jesus was not claiming to be God.

 

[Peterlag]

There is another “I am” statement in John 8. Abraham was the great patriarch of Israel, the father of the faithful, who was deeply venerated by the Jewish community of Jesus’ day. Jesus told the Jewish leaders that Abraham had rejoiced to see His day.

When the leaders asked how Jesus could possibly have seen Abraham, He replied, “Before Abraham was, I am”.

He did not say, “Before Abraham was, I was.” Rather, He said, “I am.” In doing so, He made a claim to eternality and deity. What many people miss today, the people that Jesus was talking to caught on rather quickly. They were filled with fury against Jesus because He, a mere man in their eyes, made Himself equal with God.

All Jesus was saying is I am the subject matter way before Abraham came along. I'm what the whole Bible is about from the beginning.

 

[dwight92070]

There are no such examples of what one would consider an orthodox trinitarian in the first century. This means that trinitarianism didn't exist. The best guess about when your cult finally got around to figuring everything out is the the late 4th century at the council of Nicaea and Constantinople. That's when you all decided Jesus is your god and the Holy Spirit as well. You seem you want to wine to me about history. How about you hit the books and get educated.

You said: "There are no such examples of what one would consider an orthodox trinitarian in the first century."

Sure there are. You can wine all you want about trinitarians not existing but every author of the New Testament believed in the concept, even though they didn't call it that.

John said that the Word was with God and He was God and All things came into being through Him and He became flesh.
John knew that the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit were each God and together they were God.

The wise men from the east knew that the little boy Jesus was God. When they saw Him, they fell to the ground and worshiped Him. They came to worship Him and to offer Him extremely expensive gifts. They knew that ONLY God should be worshiped.

All the inhabitants of heaven knew that Jesus was God; The 4 living creatures and the 24 elders fell down before the Lamb and worshiped Him. Then multiplied millions of angels joined them in worship of Jesus. Only God should be worshiped.
Then every created thing in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them worshiped the Father and the Son, Jesus, with EQUAL WORSHIP and the 24 elders once again fell down and worshiped them.

All 12 apostles knew that Jesus was God because they worshiped Him (Mt. 14:33). They knew that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit were each God and together they were God. Only God can be worshiped.

Mary Magdalene and the other Mary knew that Jesus was God because they worshiped Him. Mat. 28:9 Jesus did NOT rebuke them for worshiping Him, which He would have, if He was not God. The 2 Mary's knew that the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit were God individually and together. Only God should be worshiped.

A blind man who Jesus healed believed He was God, because he too worshiped Him. John 9:38

The author of Hebrews believed the trinity concept. He told us that even God the Father, called Jesus His Son - God. He also informed us that God the Father directed all the angels to worship Jesus. He knew that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit were each God, and together they were God.

Jesus Himself spoke of the trinity concept. "I (Jesus) will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper ... that is the Spirit of truth." John 14:16-17 In the next verse, Jesus equates Himself with the Holy Spirit saying: "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you." Then in verse 23, Jesus equates Himself with both the Father and the Holy Spirit: "... and My Father will love him, and WE will come to him and make OUR abode with him." (in the form of the Holy Spirit)

" ... baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." Mat. 28:19 Notice Jesus refers to ONE NAME here.

Paul believed in the trinity concept: "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all." 2 Cor. 13:14

Also see Romans 8:9

"Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit (the Holy Spirit). And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord (Jesus the Son). There are varieties of effects, but the same God (the Father).

Matthew believed in the trinity concept: "he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him (Jesus), and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, 'This is My (the Father's) beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

You have to be willfully blind to not see the concept of the trinity in the New Testament.

How about you hit the BIBLE and GET EDUCATED?

 

[amazing grace]

ERGO: Jesus was saying He was God.

God Said.... Exodus 3:14-15 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15, And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

I am familiar with the above . . . I AM was not God's name. Yahweh . . . The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob this is my name for ever. . . LORD, Yahweh . . .
Jesus was not the God of Abraham, Isaac nor Jacob.

Jesus Said... The first time....
In John 6:16-21, the disciples rowed a boat to Capernaum in the middle of a storm. They were frightened when they saw Jesus walking near them on the water. “But he said to them, “It is I; do not be afraid.” (John 6:20 ESV)

This is the first appearance of the phrase ego eimi, I am. Jesus is clearly doing something only God could do: walking on water.

The first time John 4
The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things.” Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am [he]." Just then his disciples came back. They marveled that he was talking with a woman, but no one said, “What do you seek?” or, “Why are you talking with her?”
Now there is a clear explicit verse of Jesus saying who he is.

Jesus Said definitively....
in John 8, at the end of a long and contentious debate with the Jews gathered at the temple. The discussion took a dangerous turn, which pivoted on the utterance of ego eimi.

“‘Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.’ So the Jews said to him, ‘You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?’ Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.’

John 8 : 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

= Jesus is God. Period
@civic "This verse is the dagger. Unless you believe I Am ( YHWH ) you will die in your sins. John 8:24
Interlinear "

Unless you believe I am he you will die in your sins . . . apparently they didn't think he was claiming to be God because they asked "WHO ARE YOU"? Jesus said he is who he has been saying from the beginning - he is the Son of God, the Messiah. So unless they believed he was the Messiah they would die in their sins.

The question would be was Jesus literally before Abraham, i.e. as in preexistence or was Jesus before Abraham in the foreknowledge and plan of God. Well, we have the very first prophecy of Jesus in Gen. 3:15 - the offspring (seed) of the woman.
We have the promise made to Abraham at Genesis 17:6 I will make you exceedingly fruitful and I will make nations of you and kings will come from you.. . and we see the fulfillment of that prophecy in Gal. 3:16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ.
So . . . Jesus was before Abraham in the foreknowledge and plan of God.

Jesus is and has been making the claim to be the Messiah all along - they just don't believe him. Just read all the accounts of where the Pharisees, chief priest do not believe him (John 5:38,47; 6:36; 8:45,46; 10:25,26,38)
They think he is claiming to be someone he isn't so they pick up stones to stone him.

The Greek phrase "ego eimi" can be translated as "I am" or "I am He," depending on the context. However, in many instances, especially in the Gospel of John, it is often interpreted with theological significance, suggesting a deeper meaning related to identity and existence. Ai

• "I Am He": This translation can be appropriate in contexts where the speaker is identifying themselves in response to a question, such as "Who are you?" In these cases, "I am he" conveys a sense of identification.
• "I Am": In John 8:58, where Jesus states "Before Abraham was, I am," the translation "I am" is preferred. This usage is often linked to the divine name in Exodus 3:14, where God says, "I AM who I AM."

The phrase is sometimes capitalized as "I AM" in translations to emphasize its connection to the divine
While "ego eimi" can be translated as "I am he" in some contexts, it is more commonly and theologically significant when translated as "I am," especially in references to Jesus' identity and divinity.

1473 [e] 1510 [e]
egō eimi

I am [He]

The phrase "ego eimi" appears twenty-four times in the Gospel of John.

The exact phrase "ego eimi" occurs 48 times in the New Testament. It also occurs 11 times as "eimi ego"

Self explanatory.

I apologize for this statement I made earlier "It is used 98 times just in the Gospel of John!!!"
I looked at Biblegateway and referenced 'I am' in the search bar and of course that looks at every instance that I am is used even if it is - I among . . . so I do apologize for my error. Thanks.

 

[FreeInChrist]

I am familiar with the above . . . I AM was not God's name. Yahweh . . . The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob this is my name for ever. . . LORD, Yahweh . . .
Jesus was not the God of Abraham, Isaac nor Jacob.

So you are certain that God was nt with Moses?

And the Standin for God be it Jesus or an angel though had to tell Moses what to say yada yada... But then were did this standin come up with Ex 3:13-14?

God Said.... Exodus 3:14-15 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15, And God said moreover unto Moses,

Who told the standin to say what was said... actually using Gods name like that....

"Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations."

How dare someone with no authority say that God said to say this... because that person said I AM is "this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations."

And said it with such authority that it made it into inspired scriptures.

 

[amazing grace]

sure He did and they were well aware of what His claims were which is why they killed Him- for Blasphemy- claiming to be God

They took Jesus and flogged him - they mocked him and ridiculed him, twisted a crown of thorns and placed it on his head then draped a purple robe on him - mockingly saying 'Hail King of the Jews' . . . which ironically he was. Pilate could find no fault in him no guilt in him . . . yet he brought Jesus out arrayed in his purple robe with the crown upon his head and said, Behold the man!
The Jews yelled, Crucify him! Crucify him! We have a law and according to that law he ought to die because he has made himself the Son of God.

There is that accusation language again - "made himself equal to God"; "made himself out to be God"; and "made himself the Son of God" . . . They believe Jesus to be making himself out to be something he is not ---- The Son of God, the Messiah, the King of the Jews. THEY MISTAKENLY DID NOT BELIEVE HIM. (John 5:38,47; 6:36; 8:45,46; 10:25,26,38)

 

[amazing grace]

So you are certain that God was nt with Moses?

And the Standin for God be it Jesus or an angel though had to tell Moses what to say yada yada... But then were did this standin come up with Ex 3:13-14?

God Said.... Exodus 3:14-15 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15, And God said moreover unto Moses,

Who told the standin to say what was said... actually using Gods name like that....

"Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations."

How dare someone with no authority say that God said to say this... because that person said I AM is "this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations."

And said it with such authority that it made it into inspired scriptures.

WHERE in the world did I say God was not with Moses? All I said was the God's name forever was LORD, Yahweh.

 

[FreeInChrist]

WHERE in the world did I say God was not with Moses? All I said was the God's name forever was LORD, Yahweh.

And God said
God Said.... Exodus 3:14-15 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15, And God said moreover unto Moses,

Who told the standin to say what was said... actually using Gods name like that....

"Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations."

So take it up with Him.

 

[dwight92070]

You said: "There are no such examples of what one would consider an orthodox trinitarian in the first century."

Sure there are. You can wine all you want about trinitarians not existing in the 1st century but every author of the New Testament believed in the concept, even though they didn't call it that.

John said that the Word was with God and He was God and All things came into being through Him and He became flesh.
John knew that the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit were each God and together they were God.

The wise men from the east knew that the little boy Jesus was God. When they saw Him, they fell to the ground and worshiped Him. They came to worship Him and to offer Him extremely expensive gifts. They knew that ONLY God should be worshiped.

All the inhabitants of heaven knew that Jesus was God; The 4 living creatures and the 24 elders fell down before the Lamb and worshiped Him. Then multiplied millions of angels joined them in worship of Jesus. Only God should be worshiped.
Then every created thing in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them worshiped the Father and the Son, Jesus, with EQUAL WORSHIP and the 24 elders once again fell down and worshiped them.

All 12 apostles knew that Jesus was God because they worshiped Him (Mt. 14:33). They knew that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit were each God and together they were God. Only God can be worshiped.

Mary Magdalene and the other Mary knew that Jesus was God because they worshiped Him. Mat. 28:9 Jesus did NOT rebuke them for worshiping Him, which He would have, if He was not God. The 2 Mary's knew that the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit were God individually and together. Only God should be worshiped.

A blind man who Jesus healed believed He was God, because he too worshiped Him. John 9:38

The author of Hebrews believed the trinity concept. He told us that even God the Father, called Jesus His Son - God. He also informed us that God the Father directed all the angels to worship Jesus. He knew that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit were each God, and together they were God.

Jesus Himself spoke of the trinity concept. "I (Jesus) will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper ... that is the Spirit of truth." John 14:16-17 In the next verse, Jesus equates Himself with the Holy Spirit saying: "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you." Then in verse 23, Jesus equates Himself with both the Father and the Holy Spirit: "... and My Father will love him, and WE will come to him and make OUR abode with him." (in the form of the Holy Spirit)

" ... baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." Mat. 28:19 Notice Jesus refers to ONE NAME here.

Paul believed in the trinity concept: "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all." 2 Cor. 13:14

Also see Romans 8:9

"Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit (the Holy Spirit). And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord (Jesus the Son). There are varieties of effects, but the same God (the Father).

Matthew believed in the trinity concept: "he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him (Jesus), and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, 'This is My (the Father's) beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

You have to be willfully blind to not see the concept of the trinity in the New Testament.

How about you hit the BIBLE and GET EDUCATED?





Last edited: 1 minute ago

 

[Runningman]

You said: "There are no such examples of what one would consider an orthodox trinitarian in the first century."

Sure there are. You can wine all you want about trinitarians not existing in the 1st century but every author of the New Testament believed in the concept, even though they didn't call it that.

John said that the Word was with God and He was God and All things came into being through Him and He became flesh.
John knew that the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit were each God and together they were God.

The wise men from the east knew that the little boy Jesus was God. When they saw Him, they fell to the ground and worshiped Him. They came to worship Him and to offer Him extremely expensive gifts. They knew that ONLY God should be worshiped.

All the inhabitants of heaven knew that Jesus was God; The 4 living creatures and the 24 elders fell down before the Lamb and worshiped Him. Then multiplied millions of angels joined them in worship of Jesus. Only God should be worshiped.
Then every created thing in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them worshiped the Father and the Son, Jesus, with EQUAL WORSHIP and the 24 elders once again fell down and worshiped them.

All 12 apostles knew that Jesus was God because they worshiped Him (Mt. 14:33). They knew that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit were each God and together they were God. Only God can be worshiped.

Mary Magdalene and the other Mary knew that Jesus was God because they worshiped Him. Mat. 28:9 Jesus did NOT rebuke them for worshiping Him, which He would have, if He was not God. The 2 Mary's knew that the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit were God individually and together. Only God should be worshiped.

A blind man who Jesus healed believed He was God, because he too worshiped Him. John 9:38

The author of Hebrews believed the trinity concept. He told us that even God the Father, called Jesus His Son - God. He also informed us that God the Father directed all the angels to worship Jesus. He knew that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit were each God, and together they were God.

Jesus Himself spoke of the trinity concept. "I (Jesus) will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper ... that is the Spirit of truth." John 14:16-17 In the next verse, Jesus equates Himself with the Holy Spirit saying: "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you." Then in verse 23, Jesus equates Himself with both the Father and the Holy Spirit: "... and My Father will love him, and WE will come to him and make OUR abode with him." (in the form of the Holy Spirit)

" ... baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." Mat. 28:19 Notice Jesus refers to ONE NAME here.

Paul believed in the trinity concept: "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all." 2 Cor. 13:14

Also see Romans 8:9

"Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit (the Holy Spirit). And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord (Jesus the Son). There are varieties of effects, but the same God (the Father).

Matthew believed in the trinity concept: "he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him (Jesus), and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, 'This is My (the Father's) beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

You have to be willfully blind to not see the concept of the trinity in the New Testament.

How about you hit the BIBLE and GET EDUCATED?





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You're just begging the question still. Where did anyone state God is a they or them, three, or defined God as three persons? The Bible says God is the Father so that's the way real Christians define God.

 

[mikesw]

You're just begging the question still. Where did anyone state God is a they or them, three, or defined God as three persons? The Bible says God is the Father so that's the way real Christians define God.

Christians also know that God has a Son. That does not mean there just was another human that walked the earth. To deny the divinity of Christ is to deny the Son.