Peterlag
Active Member
He just told you why. EDIT You have no examples of the "Word" being God in the Old Testament or in the New Testament.
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All Claims of The Son's Deity
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synergy
Active Member
Why do you refuse to believe John when he wrote that "the Word was God" during OT times? His witness is not good enough for you? You continue to exhibit traits of being an anti-Apostolic heretic.
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Runningman
Active Member
John 17:1-3 says the one you call Father in your trinity is the only true God. There are no "Word is the ony true God" or "the Holy Spirit is the only true God" statements in the Bible. John 17:3 isn't a trinitarian verse, it's a trinitarain show-stopper.
What's your work around for 1 Corinthians 8:6 and Ephesians 4:6?
synergy
Active Member
Not only is there no verse that says that only the Father is God but also there is a verse for the Word was God, a double whammy for unitarians.
Those are perfectly Trinitarian verses. Thanks for mentioning them.
Runningman
Active Member
Yet we still have John 17:1-3 explicitly calling the Father the only true God. That rules Jesus out. Now the Holy Spirit, you don't know who that is. The Holy Spirit is not a third person
God is one singular being known as the Father. Paul's teachings define the trinity as a so-called god, i,e, an idol, fake god, etc.
1 Corinthians 8
4So about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many so-called gods and lords), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.
It's not a claim, it's a fact! Jesus is God. It's the hypostatic union.
The hypostatic union is the term used to describe how God the Son, Jesus Christ, took on a human nature, yet remained fully God at the same time. Jesus always had been God (John 8:58; 10:30), but at the incarnation Jesus became a human being (John 1:14).
58 Jesus replied, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, before Abraham was born, I AM.
John 8:58
30 I and the Father are One
John 10:30
14 And the Word (Christ) became flesh (human, incarnate) and tabernacled (fixed His tent of flesh, lived awhile) among us; and we [actually] saw His glory (His honor, His majesty), such glory as an only begotten son receives from his father, full of grace (favor, loving-kindness) and truth.
John 1:14
The addition of the human nature to the divine nature is Jesus, the God-man. This is the hypostatic union, Jesus Christ, one Person, fully God and fully man.
The hypostatic union is the term used to describe how God the Son, Jesus Christ, took on a human nature, yet remained fully God at the same time. Jesus always had been God (John 8:58; 10:30), but at the incarnation Jesus became a human being (John 1:14).
58 Jesus replied, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, before Abraham was born, I AM.
John 8:58
30 I and the Father are One
John 10:30
14 And the Word (Christ) became flesh (human, incarnate) and tabernacled (fixed His tent of flesh, lived awhile) among us; and we [actually] saw His glory (His honor, His majesty), such glory as an only begotten son receives from his father, full of grace (favor, loving-kindness) and truth.
John 1:14
The addition of the human nature to the divine nature is Jesus, the God-man. This is the hypostatic union, Jesus Christ, one Person, fully God and fully man.
synergy
Active Member
We already agree that there is only one God. We're not polytheists. What you're promoting is that only the Father is God but the Bible never says anything like that. In fact John 1:1 totally contradicts that heretical idea. Until you can produce a verse that says only the Father is God then it's unitarianism that is promoting heresies.
Runningman
Active Member
You are attempting to create what is known as a doctrine because doctrines help explain what you believe, but the weakness of a doctrine is that they are not stated in the Bible. For example, no one ever stated Jesus has a hypostatic union in the Bible. Most doctrines are eisegesis. It's what most other denominations do. The Mormons do it, the Scientologists do it, the Protestants and Catholics do it, etc.
So just providing the reasons why you believe what you do is not convincing. Why do you believe in something the Bible doesn't say? I imagine you probably thought it was clever. I understand that because it's easy to get drawn in by an argument, but I am asking you to think critically about it and dig deeper.
So what about Jesus actually makes you feel like he has a hypostatic union and are you prepared to deal with all of the contradictions I will refute you with? I already did it here yesterday. So far crickets in another thread.
Peterlag
Active Member
The Jewish folks did just that. All throughout their history they fiercely defended the fact that there was only one God. Jesus himself tied the greatest commandment in the Law together with there being only one God when an expert in Old Testament law asked him which of the commandments was the most important. Jesus said to him “The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God….” (Mark 12:29-30).
Runningman
Active Member
It's the greatest commandment and yet that One God is the Father. They totally have missed this somewhow even after we keep putting it directly in front of their face.
1 Corinthians 8
4So about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many so-called gods and lords), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.
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Commentary for those who like the truth. The Jews had debated the passages that pointed to discussions between two who were called Yahweh. This is in the Two Powers in Heaven by Alan Segal. This point has been mentioned several times but still is ignored.
Runningman
Active Member
Did you see in 1 Corinthians 8:4-6 Paul explicitly said "...there is no God but one." After that, said "...there is but one God, the Father." That's very clear, very direct, and can't be misunderstood. Christianity is a strictly monotheistic and God is Unitarian. I really hope you see it some day.
Peterlag
Active Member
I gotta use this to. It's not my fault that you keep coming up with stuff I don't focus on.
Peterlag
Active Member
There's only one God...
All throughout their history the Jews fiercely defended the fact that there was only one God. Jesus himself tied the greatest commandment in the Law together with there being only one God when an expert in Old Testament law asked him which of the commandments was the most important. Jesus said to him “The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord” (Mark 12:29-30).
1 Corinthians 8:4,6
...that there is none other God but one.
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ,...
All throughout their history the Jews fiercely defended the fact that there was only one God. Jesus himself tied the greatest commandment in the Law together with there being only one God when an expert in Old Testament law asked him which of the commandments was the most important. Jesus said to him “The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord” (Mark 12:29-30).
1 Corinthians 8:4,6
...that there is none other God but one.
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ,...
I'm not sure how your response counters the findings of Segal in the Two Powers in Heaven. That was the issue that has been raised but has never been countered by the unitarians. The Corinthian passage reflects both God and Lord has found in Deut 6:4 where the Lord your God is One -- both Lord and God. The oneness of 1 Cor 8 is reflected by God being One and One Lord. Take notice that both the Father and Christ are named in unison. It is not as if Christ as Lord is invisible in the text. You may come out with an alternative fashion that Jesus is the Divine Son but not simply ignore the Trinity concepts. You fail to reasonably address verses showing the divinity of Christ. Such verses are why we cannot deny who Christ is.
