Runningman
Active Member
I believe God is the Father (also known as YHWH) like the Bible says. I am not an atheist.
All Claims of The Son's Deity
- Thread starter Johann
- Start date
As to Psalm 45:6, yes, you always refer it to a human king with a human wife but my always question to you to prove your interpretation correct, where in the New Testament that human king's forever and ever throne be found?
Psalms 82, refer to plural gods, and for Moses, is there any contention that Moses is really God?
I believe it is to Jesus only from the Arians.
Below the "God" in Psa 45:6 in Greek still "theos" and BIble lexicon one definition as Christ the second person of the trinity.
Psa 45:6 G3588 Your throne,G2362 G1473 OG3588 God,G2316 is untoG1519 theG3588 eonG165 of theG3588 eon.G165 A rodG4464 of straightnessG2118 is theG3588 rodG4464 G3588 of your kingdom.G932 G1473
G2316
θεός theos
Thayer Definition:
1) a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities
2) the Godhead, trinity
2a) God the Father, the first person in the trinity
2b) Christ, the second person of the trinity
2c) Holy Spirit, the third person in the trinity
Psalm 45:6 in the Tanakh it is in verse 7, the word "God" in Hebrew "אלהים 'ĕlôhı̂ym" defined by Bible lexicon in plural intensive - singular meaning, one definition is God,(2e) etc.
But "king" is not one of them, that renders your interpretation incorrect.
Psa 45:7 כסאךH3678 אלהיםH430 עולםH5769 ועדH5703 שׁבטH7626 מישׁרH4334 שׁבטH7626 מלכותך׃H4438
H430
אלהים 'ĕlôhı̂ym
BDB Definition:
1) (plural)
1a) rulers, judges
1b) divine ones
1c) angels
1d) gods
2) (plural intensive - singular meaning)
2a) god, goddess
2b) godlike one
2c) works or special possessions of God
2d) the (true) God
2e) God
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Runningman
Active Member
The human king has a forever throne in Hebrews 1:8.
There are only "gods" when there is more than one, there aren't plural-singular people in the Bible. Which is totally a contradiction. There is also Psalm 45:6 and Hebrews 1:8 where there is singular elohim. The elohim argument isn't a good one since not only does it refer to singular individuals like the human king in Psalm 45:6 and Moses in Exodus 7:1, but even when God is called elohim it's still singular.
Catching on to why no one ever calls God a they or them in the Bible?
For example, God isn't more than one person. God is only one person known as the Father so everyone calls God a He, Him, or His because He's a singular person.
Genesis 1
26Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness, to rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it.”
27So God created man in His own image;
in the image of God He created him;
male and female He created them.
Runningman
Active Member
I'll answer that. It doesn't exist. It's one of the false gospels they often push though.
101G
Active Member
Confess: Philippians 2:10 "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;"
Philippians 2:11 "And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
now let's see it plainly. Isaiah 45:22 "Look unto me, and be ye saved, (who saved you pete?), all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else." Isaiah 45:23 "I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear."
Pete, did the Lord Jesus saved you, who you Confessed? yes or no. .... the clock is ticking for your answer.
101G.
Runningman
Active Member
That says "at the name" of Jesus every knee will bow, not that every knee will bow to Jesus. Then it only mentions the Father as the God who gets the glory.
101G
Active Member
Who do you think is the Father name? answer, JESUS. listen, Revelation 4:11 "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."
this is the Father, (the TITLE of Jesus), in flesh and bone sitting on the throne, RIGHT. question, "if the person sitting on the throne, (receive glory), give book chapter and verse the name of the person who gave God "GLORY?". for God said this, Isaiah 42:8 "I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images."
now in revelation 4:11 above, if that's the Father sitting, or not, who gave the one sitting, GLORY?.... remember, Isaiah 42:8 "I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another".
now one more, Isaiah 48:11 "For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another." .... his NAME?
NOW THINK run. if the "Lord" who sits on the throne as Revelation 4:11 clearly states ... "receive glory", if this is not the same person WHO is God, then God LIED, (God forbid), because two have Glory, but in Isaiah 42:8, and Isaiah 48:11. God never shared his Glory with anyone. because in order to receive GLORY, it requires two or more persons. one the giver, and two the receiver.
in Layman's terms, if the person in Rev. 4:11 is the Father, (Lord), then it's the "Lord", who NAME is Jesus, because he is Lord. supportive scripture, John 13:13 "Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am." and it is the "Lord" who sits on the throne in Rev. 4:11.
Looking to hear your response.......
101G.
Peterlag
Active Member
My oh my how many mistakes can we have?
Philippians 2:10 says at the name of Jesus every... It does not say we should believe or confess that Jesus is God.
Philippians 2:11 says confess that Jesus is Lord. It does not say Jesus is God or that we should believe of confess that Jesus is God.
Isaiah 45:22 is talking to Isreal. Not Christians.
Victoria
Active Member
@Peterlag @Runningman
Matthew describes Jesus as King.
Mark describes Jesus as Servant.
Luke describes Jesus as Man.
John describes Jesus as God.
The Deity of Jesus Christ:
(Genesis 1:1; 2:3)
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:1-3; 14
"I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." John 8:24
I AM THAT I AM:
(Exodus 3:13-14)
"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." John 8:58
Unbelieving Israel Knew Exactly Who Jesus Christ Claimed To Be:
"I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God." John 10:30-33
Oneness With The Father:
"If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" John 14:7-9
"Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:27-29
"Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood." Acts 20:28
God The Father Calling Jesus Christ God:
"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows." Hebrews 1:8-9
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." 1 John 5:7
Matthew describes Jesus as King.
Mark describes Jesus as Servant.
Luke describes Jesus as Man.
John describes Jesus as God.
The Deity of Jesus Christ:
(Genesis 1:1; 2:3)
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:1-3; 14
"I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." John 8:24
I AM THAT I AM:
(Exodus 3:13-14)
"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." John 8:58
Unbelieving Israel Knew Exactly Who Jesus Christ Claimed To Be:
"I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God." John 10:30-33
Oneness With The Father:
"If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" John 14:7-9
"Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:27-29
"Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood." Acts 20:28
God The Father Calling Jesus Christ God:
"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows." Hebrews 1:8-9
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." 1 John 5:7
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Yes, the Father unto the Son Jesus, Your throne, O God, the second person in the Trinity. The King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
Yes, but Psa 45:6 the word "God" in Hebrew, "אלהים 'ĕlôhı̂ym" can never be refer to a "human king" as "king" not even one of the definition by Bible lexicon. See below;
Psa 45:7 כסאךH3678 אלהיםH430 עולםH5769 ועדH5703 שׁבטH7626 מישׁרH4334 שׁבטH7626 מלכותך׃H4438
H430
אלהים 'ĕlôhı̂ym
BDB Definition:
1) (plural)
1a) rulers, judges
1b) divine ones
1c) angels
1d) gods
2) (plural intensive - singular meaning)
2a) god, goddess
2b) godlike one
2c) works or special possessions of God
2d) the (true) God
2e) God
God is not the personal name of the Father.
Being "God" is a nature see Romans 1:20 and Acts 17:29.
Jesus is the "only begotten God" as original Greek wordings of the text supported by the oldest manuscripts, the papyrus 66 and papyrus 75. There are various readings but were not described as the original wordings.
John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten GodN7 who is in the bosom of the Father,N8 that one has made him fully known.
N7 John 1:18 (UASV+)The original words were μονογενὴς θεός or ο μονογενης θεος “only-begotten God” or “the only-begotten God” (P66 P75 א B C* L 33 syrhmp 33 copbo) A variant reading is ο μονογενης υιος “the only begotten Son” A C3 (Ws) Θ Ψ f1, Maj syrc).
101G
Active Member
so we can take this as you cannot answer? .... thought so. Isaiah 45:22 is talking to all people. it's makes no difference who God is talking to, the fact remain the same GOD is the Savior of all men. and JESUS is the name of the God who saves. so, not only are you corrected, but your whole belief system is exposed.....
YIKES!so, no need to respond, you been busted too many times..... good day, next.
101G.
Runningman
Active Member
Compared to God, Jesus isn't the king, but a prince. Let's begin with this statement and we will work through the rest of your errors depending how good the soil is.
Acts 5
31God exalted Him to His right hand as Prince and Savior, in order to grant repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel.
Runningman
Active Member
Ahhh, there it is. So you believe being "God" is a nature, like a quality someone has. For example, there is a sinful nature, a divine nature, and also what trinitarians call a "dual nature." These are things that people have because the nature is the essential set of qualities that make a thing what it is.
Fire burns, water flows, God is divine, etc. So do you see the quality of something is not who the person is? Fire is still a separate thing from the burning effect, water is a separate thing from the flowing action, God is separate from a divine nature.
So contrary to the Bible calling God a singular He, you believe God is a thing? Do you believe you can have the divine nature?
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Peterlag
Active Member
John 10:30 is not a teaching on the trinity or that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. There is no reason to take this verse to mean that Christ was saying that he and the Father make up "one God." The phrase was a common one, and even today if someone used it, people would know exactly what they meant... he and his Father are very much a like. When Paul wrote to the Corinthians about his ministry there, he said that he had planted the seed and Apollos had watered it. Then he said, "... he who plants and he who waters are one..." (1 Corinthians 3:8 NKJV). In the Greek texts, the wording of Paul is the same as that in John 10:30, yet no one claims that Paul and Apollos make up "one being." Christ uses the concept of "being one" in other places, and from them one can see that "one purpose" is what is meant. John 11:52 says Jesus was to die to make all God's children "one." In John 17:11, 21 and 22, Jesus prayed to God that his followers would be "one" as he and God were "one." I think it's obvious that Jesus was not praying that all his followers would become one being in "substance" just as he and his Father were one being or "substance." I believe the meaning is clear: Jesus was praying that all his followers be one in purpose just as he and God were one in purpose.
John 10:33 is not a teaching on the trinity or that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. Had the translators rendered the Greek text in verse 33 as they did inverse 34 and 35, then it would read, "...you, a man, claim to be a god." In the next two verses, John 10:34 and 35, the exact same word (theos, without the article) is translated as "god" and not "God." In Acts12:22, Herod is called theos without the article, so the translators translate it "god." The same is true in Acts 28:6, when Paul had been bitten by a viper and the people expected him to die. When he did not die, "...they changed their minds and said he was a god." Since theos has no article, and since it is clear from the context that the reference is not about the true God, theos is translated "a god." It is a general principle that theos without the article should be "a god," or" divine." Since there is no evidence that Jesus was teaching that he was God anywhere in the context, and since the Pharisees would have never believed that this man was somehow Yahweh, it makes no sense that they would be saying that he said he was "God." Now since Jesus was clearly teaching that he was sent by God and was doing God's work. Thus, it makes perfect sense that the Pharisees would say he was claiming to be "a god" or "divine."
Peterlag
Active Member
The Trinity does not come from Scripture. It comes from the doctrine of devils that the churches teach (and in most cases it's the first thing they teach) and then they begin to look for Scripture that supports such a concept. They do this by taking the verses out of context, or not understanding how the words were used in the culture they were written in, or from a bad translation.
And in this case it's from a very bad translation.
101G
Active Member
Greeting Run, not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this. the Lord Jesus is the Governor, which only God is over the nations. supportive scripture, Psalms 22:28 "For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations." now, Jesus the Lord, Matthew 2:4 "And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born." Matthew 2:5 "And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet," Matthew 2:6 "And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel."
so, where is that in the prophets? answer, Micah 5:2 "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."
RULER: H4910 מָשַׁל mashal (maw-shal') v.
to rule.
[a primitive root]
KJV: (have, make to have) dominion, governor, X indeed, reign, (bear, cause to, have) rule(-ing, -r), have power.
Ruler is translated as "Governor". this is the same exact Hebrew word used in Psalms 22:28.
101G.
101G
Active Member
Good and on point. but consider this..... "Jesus is God almighty, in the Flesh, as the EQUAL SHARE of his own self".
101G.
Runningman
Active Member
No, not only God is over the nations according to the Bible. You have too many assumptions and not enough study.
Revelation 2
26And to the one who overcomes and continues in My work until the end, I will give authority over the nations. 27He will rule them with an iron scepter and shatter them like pottery —just as I have received authority from My Father.
