All Claims of The Son's Deity

[Runningman]

Statistics and rotten lies. You can even use statistics to deny Christ's divinity. Is that a special ability? Maybe you do not remember where it is noted that Trinitarians do not say Jesus is a separate god. Maybe someone with an LDS background would think that as the backdrop for interpretation, but Trinatarian orthodox Christians do not start with the background.

Okay we might call you a three-verse unitarian who denies the rest of scripture, even John 17:5 that shows Jesus' preexistence and having glory with the Father. We hope to expand your range of scripture that you rely upon.

I just referred to straight Biblical facts and you opened by suggesting that it's a lie. So you deny everything, pivot, and move on with your trinity god narrative? If the Bible is so wrong, show where there is a trinity god in the Bible. If you can't do that, you and your powerless god stand defeated.

Let me ask you a question. The God of the Bible is a God of glory. Where is your god getting any glory with your incessant arguing against the Bible? Your god gets absolutely zero glory from Scripture. That is not what God the Father does.

 

[mikesw]

I just referred to straight Biblical facts and you opened by suggesting that it's a lie. So you deny everything, pivot, and move on with your trinity god narrative? If the Bible is so wrong, show where there is a trinity god in the Bible. If you can't do that, you and your powerless god stand defeated.

So you are blind that your use of statistics can be used to create false arguments? Maybe I can remind you that the extent of your argument is vanity. You seek to deny the direct verses of Jesus as God based on your statistics. We have covered so much to expose your bad arguments that it is surprising that you keep repeating those arguments.

Let me ask you a question. The God of the Bible is a God of glory. Where is your god getting any glory with your incessant arguing against the Bible? Your god gets absolutely zero glory from Scripture. That is not what God the Father does.

I will defend the testimony of scripture against the deceit of those denying Christ's divinity no matter how much you seek to twist that concept into some misperception. All you need to do to change a view is come out with a sustainable argument to your unitarian belief. You have not done anything toward that yet.

 

[Peterlag]

There are over 6,000 examples of God being referred to as a singular person with a singular personal name in the Old Testament alone. God is called a He, Him, His and never a they or them in all of Scripture. He is said to have created alone and there are no others beside Him. Jesus and the apostles got even more explicit and identified the one and only God as the Father. This isn't a one-verse-wonder or some fringe interpretation. The broad description of God in all of Scripture is as a singular person called YHWH the Father.

Again, the issue is actually you don't understand the broad scope of Scripture and the guardrails that it provides in the way to understand God. For starters, God is a singular person, not more than one person (John 17:1-3, 1 Corinthians 8:4-6, Ephesians 4:6) so you can't reinterpret the Bible in ways that contradict this very basic and fundamental fact, yet you do.

I would love to be around in heaven when guys like @mikesw tell Jesus his view of himself is distorted and that he needs to acquire the conception of seeing himself as God.

I think it would be enjoyable to watch guys like Mikesw trying to convince Jesus that he's God and that he needs to stop denying scriptures that show he and the Holy Spirit are the same God in the Trinity.

And that Jesus should make an argument sufficient to prove he's not God.

 

[Runningman]

I would love to be around in heaven when guys like @mikesw tell Jesus his view of himself is distorted and that he needs to acquire the conception of seeing himself as God.

I think it would be enjoyable to watch guys like Mikesw trying to convince Jesus that he's God and that he needs to stop denying scriptures that show he and the Holy Spirit are the same God in the Trinity.

And that Jesus should make an argument sufficient to prove he's not God.

I have a hard time understanding where trinitarians would even be in heaven. It would be divisive and destructive, but I do know God delights in mercy. I hope, pray, and believe God is so righteous they will be given a chance to repent, but how far does it go? The rich man who went to the fire had Moses and the prophets, but ignored everything they said, and judgement was without mercy. We also have the Bible, so where does that leave people who engage the Bible and intentionally misunderstand, abuse, and distort it?

But yes you make a good point. I would love to hear what Jesus would say to that.

 

[101G]

The word "logos" (Word) denotes (I) "the expression of thought" as embodying a conception or idea. λόγος "logos" is something said (including the thought). So the word "logos" means an expression of thought. It makes perfect sense if we use this understanding everywhere the word "logos" is used. So in John 1:1 the Word is not Jesus, but rather it became flesh, which is God's expression of thought or plan that became flesh with the coming of Jesus Christ.

Good, "the expression of thought", now was not God, "the expression of thought", made flesh? lets see, John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." so God's THOUGHTS was made flesh, and that's God's "THOUGHTS" in that flesh meaning it was GOD in that flesh... correct... read John 1:14 again.
for "Word" in John 1:14 is the same in John 1:1.

101G

 

[Runningman]

So you are blind that your use of statistics can be used to create false arguments? Maybe I can remind you that the extent of your argument is vanity. You seek to deny the direct verses of Jesus as God based on your statistics. We have covered so much to expose your bad arguments that it is surprising that you keep repeating those arguments.


I will defend the testimony of scripture against the deceit of those denying Christ's divinity no matter how much you seek to twist that concept into some misperception. All you need to do to change a view is come out with a sustainable argument to your unitarian belief. You have not done anything toward that yet.

I just laid out the Bible facts of God being described as a singular person, all in accordance with the only true God is the Father, a singular person. If you want to "defend the testimony of scripture" against what you feel is "deceit" then why do you feel the Bible is deceitful about what it says? Can you provide counter arguments where God is referred to as a "they" or "them" or anything that describes God as three, says God is three persons, etc? Yes we have went all over this repeatedly and you keep arguing instead of believing.

 

[101G]

So in John 1:1 the Word is not Jesus, but rather it became flesh, which is God's expression of thought or plan that became flesh with the coming of Jesus Christ.

lets see, John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:15 "John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me."

well the one who came after John was GOD, the Lord Jesus. see Matthew 3:11 "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:"

101G.

 

[Peterlag]

Good, "the expression of thought", now was not God, "the expression of thought", made flesh? lets see, John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." so God's THOUGHTS was made flesh, and that's God's "THOUGHTS" in that flesh meaning it was GOD in that flesh... correct... read John 1:14 again.
for "Word" in John 1:14 is the same in John 1:1.

101G

John 1:14 is not a teaching on the trinity or that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. The "Word" is the wisdom, plan or purpose of God and the Word became flesh as Jesus Christ. Thus, Jesus Christ was the Word in the flesh, which is shortened to the Word for ease of speaking. Scripture is also the Word in writing. Everyone agrees that the Word in writing had a beginning. So did the Word in the flesh. In fact, the Greek text of Matthew 1:18 says that very clearly: "Now the beginning of Jesus Christ was in this manner..." The modern Greek texts all read "beginning" in Matthew 1:18. Birth is considered an acceptable translation since the beginning of some things is birth, and so most translations read birth. Nevertheless, the proper understanding of Matthew 1:18 is the beginning of Jesus Christ. In the beginning God had a plan, a purpose, which became flesh when Jesus was conceived.

 

[Peterlag]

I have a hard time understanding where trinitarians would even be in heaven. It would be divisive and destructive, but I do know God delights in mercy. I hope, pray, and believe God is so righteous they will be given a chance to repent, but how far does it go? The rich man who went to the fire had Moses and the prophets, but ignored everything they said, and judgement was without mercy. We also have the Bible, so where does that leave people who engage the Bible and intentionally misunderstand, abuse, and distort it?

But yes you make a good point. I would love to hear what Jesus would say to that.

This is only my personal opinion since I do not know because the Bible does not say.

I too have a hard time understanding how trinitarians would make heaven. I think many might just hear that I never knew you as they try to convince Jesus that he's God. And many others will get in. I also think the guy that thinks all he needs to do to be saved is believe Jesus is God is going to be very surprised.

 

[101G]

John 1:14 is not a teaching on the trinity or that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. The "Word" is the wisdom, plan or purpose of God and the Word became flesh as Jesus Christ

did 101G say it was a teaching on the trinity? then you said, "The "Word" is the wisdom, plan or purpose of God and the Word became flesh as Jesus Christ". is not the Lord Jesus the WISDOM of God, and is not Jesus a PERSON? you're helping the trinitarians more that your unitarians beliefs.

Thus, Jesus Christ was the Word in the flesh

yes, and Jesus the Christ is a PERSON. (God's own thoughts), you just KILLED your own doctrine.

Thus, Jesus Christ was the Word in the flesh, which is shortened to the Word for ease of speaking

Another ERROR on your part, for the scriptures "SPEAK{" clearly, LISTEN, John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." so you are CORRECTED by reproving in the scriptures.

Everyone agrees that the Word in writing had a beginning

YES, IN FLESH, see John 1:14 again. reproved again

So did the Word in the flesh. In fact, the Greek text of Matthew 1:18 says that very clearly: "Now the beginning of Jesus Christ was in this manner..." The modern Greek texts all read "beginning" in Matthew 1:18. Birth is considered an acceptable translation since the beginning of some things is birth, and so most translations read birth. Nevertheless, the proper understanding of Matthew 1:18 is the beginning of Jesus Christ. In the beginning God had a plan, a purpose, which became flesh when Jesus was conceived.

now you really exposed your false doctoral beliefs, for what was in that flesh is EVERLASTING. meaning JESUS, God's Holy Thoughts is EVERLASTING. and those EVERLASTING "THOUGHT" was made flesh or dwelt in a body.

Pete you just destroyed your own doctrine with your own words. ... so sad.

101G.

 

[101G]

The modern Greek texts all read "beginning" in Matthew 1:18. Birth is considered an acceptable translation since the beginning of some things is birth, and so most translations read birth. Nevertheless, the proper understanding of Matthew 1:18 is the beginning of Jesus Christ. In the beginning God had a plan, a purpose, which became flesh when Jesus was conceived.

BEGINNING, in BIRTH in MANIFESTATION? let the bible speak. 1 John 1:1 "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;" 1 John 1:2 "(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)"

WHAT "BEGINNING" was John speaking of? Mark 1:1 "The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;"

1 John 1:2 "(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)" THE WORD WAS "WITH" THE FATHER?". FOR "WITH" IS THE SAME ONE PERSON. supportive scripture, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" NOW, JOHN 1:14 ... Philippians 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:" case closed. the unitarian doctrine of God and Christ is an IDOL WISHIP from the devil.

101G.

 

[Peterlag]

Perhaps this is truly a matter of salvation...​

1 John 4:15
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

Could this mean whoever doesn’t profess that Jesus is the Son of God, but instead professes that Jesus is God the Son, Jesus is the Eternal Son of God or that Jesus is God Almighty, God doesn’t remain in him, and he doesn’t remain in God?

Matthew 16:15-16
He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

This would have been the PERFECT time for Jesus to answer: Peter you are WRONG. I AM THE ALMIGHTY GOD come in Human Form Incarnated in the Flesh.

This is NOT what Jesus said. Instead he said that it was The FATHER Himself who revealed to Peter the TRUE IDENTITY of who Jesus was “... the Son of the Living God....” NOT GOD ALMIGHTY Himself.

cc: @Runningman

 

[Runningman]

This is only my personal opinion since I do not know because the Bible does not say.

I too have a hard time understanding how trinitarians would make heaven. I think many might just hear that I never knew you as they try to convince Jesus that he's God. And many others will get in. I also think the guy that thinks all he needs to do to be saved is believe Jesus is God is going to be very surprised.

They often do the same thing with salvation that they do with the trinity doctrine. Yes it's true there are verses that say you just believe in Jesus to be saved, but in the context it's also plain that abstinence from sin is required to be saved.

You mentioned "I never knew you..." being said to those who were practicing spiritual gifts like prophecy, casting out demons, and other miracles. Only genuine believers get those kind of gifts. If those genuine believers didn't make past the finish line for sinning, what do you think happens to a trinitarian who tries to convince Jesus he is God? Or anyone else for that matter? We should all repent if necessary.

That's why abstaining from sin is important folks. Whoever reads this, at least believe this part even if you disagree about everything else the Bible says!

Matthew 7
21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’

23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’

 

[mikesw]

I have a hard time understanding where trinitarians would even be in heaven. It would be divisive and destructive, but I do know God delights in mercy. I hope, pray, and believe God is so righteous they will be given a chance to repent, but how far does it go? The rich man who went to the fire had Moses and the prophets, but ignored everything they said, and judgement was without mercy. We also have the Bible, so where does that leave people who engage the Bible and intentionally misunderstand, abuse, and distort it?

But yes you make a good point. I would love to hear what Jesus would say to that.

you keep denying the passages that point out Jesus as God. How can you just neglect those? Apparently you do not care if you deny scripture here. You maybe also have heard that God can be identified as singular but that Jesus also is God, not another god. If that is too difficult for you, find some easier reading.

 

[civic]

I have a hard time understanding where trinitarians would even be in heaven. It would be divisive and destructive, but I do know God delights in mercy. I hope, pray, and believe God is so righteous they will be given a chance to repent, but how far does it go? The rich man who went to the fire had Moses and the prophets, but ignored everything they said, and judgement was without mercy. We also have the Bible, so where does that leave people who engage the Bible and intentionally misunderstand, abuse, and distort it?

But yes you make a good point. I would love to hear what Jesus would say to that.

Projecting as the same could be said of Unitarians .

It will be interesting to see when Jesus says I never knew you depart from Me.

 

[Runningman]

you keep denying the passages that point out Jesus as God. How can you just neglect those? Apparently you do not care if you deny scripture here. You maybe also have heard that God can be identified as singular but that Jesus also is God, not another god. If that is too difficult for you, find some easier reading.

I think you're in full blown disaster recovery mode. Your religion got debunked, you can't rebuttal with scripture, so you use all of your comments trying to discredit the Bible. I have seen you over the course of multiple threads insisting the language of the Bible is inadequate to explain the trinity so you use your own words. Some nonsense about Jesus not being the Son of God, but rather that just being a title, contrary to the Bible explicitly stating he is offspring in Hebrews 1:5 and Hebrews 5:5, not only in a physical sense, but in a spiritual sense too.

 

[Runningman]

Projecting as the same could be said of Unitarians .

It will be interesting to see when Jesus says I never knew you depart from Me.

Well, we believe and obey what Jesus said is most important, but you don't. There is also the matter of you rejecting the sole and exclusive deity of the Father, something Jesus said is required for eternal life. I am sure you have similar beliefs to @mikesw who doesn't believe Jesus is literally the Son of God with God not literally being his Father. So you probably deny the Son and lose the Father as well. Yeah I really don't see how or why God would allow anti-Christs into heaven.

You're an unrepentant idolator according to the Bible, I know that much, all speculation aside. Scripture doesn't have anything good to say about your kind and I am going to give it to your straight. Your destination isn't heaven the best I can tell based on what the Bible says, I wish I could say differently, but it says what it says. I never want to keep the door closed for anyone. Are you sure the Father isn't the only true God? You can make up your mind and take responsibility for that choice.

Revelation 22
14Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by its gates.
15But outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

 

[mikesw]

I think you're in full blown disaster recovery mode. Your religion got debunked, you can't rebuttal with scripture, so you use all of your comments trying to discredit the Bible. I have seen you over the course of multiple threads insisting the language of the Bible is inadequate to explain the trinity so you use your own words. Some nonsense about Jesus not being the Son of God, but rather that just being a title, contrary to the Bible explicitly stating he is offspring in Hebrews 1:5 and Hebrews 5:5, not only in a physical sense, but in a spiritual sense too.

If that is your perspective, then Christ and the Father are no longer valid. That truly is a sad atheist position of you to propagate.

 

[101G]

Perhaps this is truly a matter of salvation...​

1 John 4:15
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

Could this mean whoever doesn’t profess that Jesus is the Son of God, but instead professes that Jesus is God the Son, Jesus is the Eternal Son of God or that Jesus is God Almighty, God doesn’t remain in him, and he doesn’t remain in God?

Matthew 16:15-16
He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

This would have been the PERFECT time for Jesus to answer: Peter you are WRONG. I AM THE ALMIGHTY GOD come in Human Form Incarnated in the Flesh.

This is NOT what Jesus said. Instead he said that it was The FATHER Himself who revealed to Peter the TRUE IDENTITY of who Jesus was “... the Son of the Living God....” NOT GOD ALMIGHTY Himself.

cc: @Runningman

"And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. This would have been the PERFECT time for Jesus to answer: Peter you are WRONG. I AM THE ALMIGHTY GOD come in Human Form Incarnated in the Flesh."
Peter was RIGHT, because he did say that he was God. listen and understand, ok Pete, who raised up Jesus body? ... God right..... Now Listen, John 2:18 "Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?" John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." John 2:20 "Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?" John 2:21 "But he spake of the temple of his body." John 2:22 "When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said."

do you believe Jesus?

pete your doctrine is dead in the water, just as the trinity doctrine. case close.

101G.

 

[civic]

Well, we believe and obey what Jesus said is most important, but you don't. There is also the matter of you rejecting the sole and exclusive deity of the Father, something Jesus said is required for eternal life. I am sure you have similar beliefs to @mikesw who doesn't believe Jesus is literally the Son of God with God not literally being his Father. So you probably deny the Son and lose the Father as well. Yeah I really don't see how or why God would allow anti-Christs into heaven.

You're an unrepentant idolator according to the Bible, I know that much, all speculation aside. Scripture doesn't have anything good to say about your kind and I am going to give it to your straight. Your destination isn't heaven the best I can tell based on what the Bible says, I wish I could say differently, but it says what it says. I never want to keep the door closed for anyone. Are you sure the Father isn't the only true God? You can make up your mind and take responsibility for that choice.

Revelation 22
14Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by its gates.
15But outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

You deny what He said and claimed since He claimed and said He was God and equal with the Father and that They are One God/ Lord.