A Personal Reflection on the Trinity and Salvation

[civic]

I partake of bacon and eggs several times a week. I sure do hope I don't turn into bacon and eggs.

or a wild boar

 

[dwight92070]

So any time someone in the Bible is worshipped it means they are bowing to God? Abraham bowed to people, Nathan bowed, many bowed. Bowing can be called worship, but it doesn't infer deity. Why did you think they were worshipping Jesus as God? Which verse says that and why do you reject Jesus' explicit teaching about how the true worshippers worship the Father in spirit and truth? Physical bowing isn't spirit and truth worship.

John 4
23But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”

You said: So any time someone in the Bible is worshipped it means they are bowing to God?

You love to twist the words that I have spoken, which is typical of those who reject Christ's Deity. I NEVER said the above. Those are your twisted words.

In Matthew 4:9 the devil said to Jesus: "All these things I will give You, if you fall down and worship me."

Jesus answered, "Go Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.' " Deut. 6:13

So Jesus acknowledged that ONLY GOD should be worshiped, just as I said. Yet He Himself received worship without rebuking those worshiping Him. In fact, at times He even encouraged people to worship Him. "If these remain silent, even the rocks will cry out (to worship Me)."

You asked: Why do you think they were worshiping Jesus as God?

Because that's the very definition of worship. We are commanded not to worship anything or anyone but God.

Yes, people bowed to other people in the Old Testament. Does that make it right? I don't think so. We are to bow in worship of God, not before man. That approaches or actually is idolatry.

If you think that I am rejecting John 4:23-24 (which I am NOT), then I could also say that you are rejecting what the Scripture teaches us in Acts 10:25-26. "When Peter entered, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet and worshiped him. But Peter raised him up, saying, 'Stand up; I too am just a man.' "
You are also rejecting what the angels told John when he "fell at his (the angel's) feet to worship him." The angel was displeased with that and said: "Do not do that; ... worship God." Revelation 19:10. The same thing happened again in Rev. 22:8-9.

Of course we worship in Spirit and truth. Does that mean that we don't also worship by bowing with our face to the ground before God? Obviously we do both.

Paul said, "For this reason I bow my knees before the Father." Ephesians 3:14

He also said, "Every knee shall bow ... and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord." Phil. 2:10-11

So going by your reasoning, obviously you also reject the teaching of these two verses.

 

[Runningman]

You're not stepping through anything. You're skipping most everything I'm saying.

So who are your earthly masters?
Are you my master?

So there are earthly masters and then there is Christ in this context. That's two masters. Are you saying that Paul utterly rejected the teachings of Christ? Or do you misunderstand Christ? Paul as an anointed apostle knew what he was talking about, you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Runningman]

To partake of something doesn't equal becoming completely. Which is one of the reasons you're going to die and corrupt when Jesus didn't.

You are not even close to being just like Jesus. He is your Master. There is none like Him.

Over and over again you Unitarians treat Jesus like YOUR "better brother". Yet, you're not begotten of God. God only has one and only one begotten Son.

You're not HIM. Stop pretending.

I'll gladly worship Jesus Christ. He is worthy. You're not.

Partaking of the divine nature means they are sharing in the divine nature with God. To deny believers can share the divine nature with God is to deny that God has a divine nature to share.

So there goes another trinitarian argument dismantled. Where you all keep getting issues is because you all prooftext too much and don't understand basic Biblical concepts about how having a divine nature is not related to being God. Why do you all want God to be a status that can be shared? Because you have idols you want to make into a trinity. God is a singular person according to Scripture. Let me introduce you to John 17:3 and 1 Corinthians 8:6 if you haven't read them already. This is where Unitarians win every debate at the end of the day.

 

[praise_yeshua]

So there are earthly masters and then there is Christ in this context. That's two masters. Are you saying that Paul utterly rejected the teachings of Christ? Or do you misunderstand Christ? Paul as an anointed apostle knew what he was talking about, you have no idea what you're talking about.

I said I don't have an earthly master. I didn't reject what Paul said at all. I reject what you said about the words of Jesus.

There is only One Heavenly Master. You may have several earthy masters. In fact, I'm rather certain you do.

I don't have one myself. I know what it is to be a servant that doesn't answer to men.

So pay attention.

 

[Runningman]

You said: So any time someone in the Bible is worshipped it means they are bowing to God?

You love to twist the words that I have spoken, which is typical of those who reject Christ's Deity. I NEVER said the above. Those are your twisted words.

In Matthew 4:9 the devil said to Jesus: "All these things I will give You, if you fall down and worship me."

Jesus answered, "Go Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.' " Deut. 6:13

So Jesus acknowledged that ONLY GOD should be worshiped, just as I said. Yet He Himself received worship without rebuking those worshiping Him. In fact, at times He even encouraged people to worship Him. "If these remain silent, even the rocks will cry out (to worship Me)."

You asked: Why do you think they were worshiping Jesus as God?

Because that's the very definition of worship. We are commanded not to worship anything or anyone but God.

Yes, people bowed to other people in the Old Testament. Does that make it right? I don't think so. We are to bow in worship of God, not before man. That approaches or actually is idolatry.

If you think that I am rejecting John 4:23-24 (which I am NOT), then I could also say that you are rejecting what the Scripture teaches us in Acts 10:25-26. "When Peter entered, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet and worshiped him. But Peter raised him up, saying, 'Stand up; I too am just a man.' "
You are also rejecting what the angels told John when he "fell at his (the angel's) feet to worship him." The angel was displeased with that and said: "Do not do that; ... worship God." Revelation 19:10. The same thing happened again in Rev. 22:8-9.

Of course we worship in Spirit and truth. Does that mean that we don't also worship by bowing with our face to the ground before God? Obviously we do both.

Paul said, "For this reason I bow my knees before the Father." Ephesians 3:14

He also said, "Every knee shall bow ... and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord." Phil. 2:10-11

So going by your reasoning, obviously you also reject the teaching of these two verses.

The only instruction given to believers on who to worship is the Father in the entire Bible. Means Jesus isn't God.

John 4
23But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”

 

[praise_yeshua]

Partaking of the divine nature means they are sharing in the divine nature with God. To deny believers can share the divine nature with God is to deny that God has a divine nature to share.

So there goes another trinitarian argument dismantled. Where you all keep getting issues is because you all prooftext too much and don't understand basic Biblical concepts about how having a divine nature is not related to being God. Why do you all want God to be a status that can be shared? Because you have idols you want to make into a trinity. God is a singular person according to Scripture. Let me introduce you to John 17:3 and 1 Corinthians 8:6 if you haven't read them already. This is where Unitarians win every debate at the end of the day.

Nonsense. Believers have a small portion. It is not to deny it entirely. You're being childish.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The only instruction given to believers on who to worship is the Father in the entire Bible. Means Jesus isn't God.

John 4
23But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”

Joh 9:38 He said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.

You can't worship the Father while denying worship to the son. To deny the son is to deny the Father.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The only instruction given to believers on who to worship is the Father in the entire Bible. Means Jesus isn't God.

John 4
23But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”

Has anyone wrote anything about you?

You would think that if you're really just like Jesus, then someone would want to talk about you.......

Has anyone wrote anything about you? News agency? Have you been on TV?

 

[civic]

You said: So any time someone in the Bible is worshipped it means they are bowing to God?

You love to twist the words that I have spoken, which is typical of those who reject Christ's Deity. I NEVER said the above. Those are your twisted words.

In Matthew 4:9 the devil said to Jesus: "All these things I will give You, if you fall down and worship me."

Jesus answered, "Go Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.' " Deut. 6:13

So Jesus acknowledged that ONLY GOD should be worshiped, just as I said. Yet He Himself received worship without rebuking those worshiping Him. In fact, at times He even encouraged people to worship Him. "If these remain silent, even the rocks will cry out (to worship Me)."

You asked: Why do you think they were worshiping Jesus as God?

Because that's the very definition of worship. We are commanded not to worship anything or anyone but God.

Yes, people bowed to other people in the Old Testament. Does that make it right? I don't think so. We are to bow in worship of God, not before man. That approaches or actually is idolatry.

If you think that I am rejecting John 4:23-24 (which I am NOT), then I could also say that you are rejecting what the Scripture teaches us in Acts 10:25-26. "When Peter entered, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet and worshiped him. But Peter raised him up, saying, 'Stand up; I too am just a man.' "
You are also rejecting what the angels told John when he "fell at his (the angel's) feet to worship him." The angel was displeased with that and said: "Do not do that; ... worship God." Revelation 19:10. The same thing happened again in Rev. 22:8-9.

Of course we worship in Spirit and truth. Does that mean that we don't also worship by bowing with our face to the ground before God? Obviously we do both.

Paul said, "For this reason I bow my knees before the Father." Ephesians 3:14

He also said, "Every knee shall bow ... and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord." Phil. 2:10-11

So going by your reasoning, obviously you also reject the teaching of these two verses.

It’s common to twist the words of trinitarians like they do with the Bible

 

[Runningman]

To partake of something doesn't equal becoming completely. Which is one of the reasons you're going to die and corrupt when Jesus didn't.

You are not even close to being just like Jesus. He is your Master. There is none like Him.

Over and over again you Unitarians treat Jesus like YOUR "better brother". Yet, you're not begotten of God. God only has one and only one begotten Son.

You're not HIM. Stop pretending.

I'll gladly worship Jesus Christ. He is worthy. You're not.

This says they partake of the divine nature, not in a token or non-existent sense as you seem to be saying, but literally. If they partake of it they have it. Others having divinity is not related to them being God. God isn't something someone can become or share with the Father. Read the rest of the chapter to learn how to partake of the divine nature.

2 Peter 1
4Through these He has given us His precious and magnificent promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, now that you have escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

 

[praise_yeshua]

This says they partake of the divine nature, not in a token or non-existent sense as you seem to be saying, but literally. If they partake of it they have it. Others having divinity is not related to them being God. God isn't something someone can become or share with the Father. Read the rest of the chapter to learn how to partake of the divine nature.

2 Peter 1
4Through these He has given us His precious and magnificent promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, now that you have escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

How many times are you going to repeat yourself without dealing with what I said?

I'm waiting for all these writings to start flowing about you like they did about Jesus. I mean were here talking about Jesus Christ thousands of years later yet no one is talking about you. No one is talking about me.

I'm not the one claiming to be just like Christ. Such is preposterous.

You do not have the Χαρακτήρ of God as referenced in Hebrews 1:3.

If you really knew Χαρακτήρ. You would never say the nonsense you're saying here. It is only used once to reference anyone. It has no Hebrew origin. Χαρακτήρ so permeates the doctrine of the shared essence of God The Holy Trinity that you're never understand it disparaging Jesus Christ like you're doing.

You have no Χαρακτήρ.

 

[Runningman]

Joh 9:38 He said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.

You can't worship the Father while denying worship to the son. To deny the son is to deny the Father.

That's bowing down. Not God worship. Belief in Jesus and God aren't the same category of belief. Jesus was clear about this much.

John 14
1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well.

 

[Runningman]

Nonsense. Believers have a small portion. It is not to deny it entirely. You're being childish.

Don't minimize the divinity that Peter taught believers have. I see that Peter's teachings make you a feel a bit uncomfortable? Look at the difference between bow I fully agree with Scripture and how you don't.

 

[Runningman]

Has anyone wrote anything about you?

You would think that if you're really just like Jesus, then someone would want to talk about you.......

Has anyone wrote anything about you? News agency? Have you been on TV?

You're getting closer to the truth even though you seem to mock it. Paul did teach people that they are to be like God. Jesus is your example of what you can be like. What's keeping you from reaching this level is that you are a doubter.

Ephesians 4
24and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Don't minimize the divinity that Peter taught believers have. I see that Peter's teachings make you a feel a bit uncomfortable? Look at the difference between bow I fully agree with Scripture and how you don't.

Such divinity as you claim you have can't be hidden. You can claim anything you want. After all, it isn't anything but a claim.

You're proving you are not like Jesus. Jesus is worthy of being worshipped. You're not.

 

[praise_yeshua]

That's bowing down. Not God worship. Belief in Jesus and God aren't the same category of belief. Jesus was clear about this much.

John 14
1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well.

Liar. You referenced προσκυνέω as worship toward the Father in John 4:23.

Now you refuse the same word used in

Joh 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.

When it references Jesus Christ.

You're certainly not like Jesus.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You're getting closer to the truth even though you seem to mock it. Paul did teach people that they are to be like God. Jesus is your example of what you can be like. What's keeping you from reaching this level is that you are a doubter.

Ephesians 4
24and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

What is keeping you?

Paul got angry and apologized for offending a High Priest.

Act 23:4 And they that stood by said, Revilest thou God's high priest?
Act 23:5 Then said Paul, I wist not, brethren, that he was the high priest: for it is written, Thou shalt not speak evil of the ruler of thy people.

Jesus never did this. Paul is a much better man than you are but he wasn't Jesus Christ. Paul isn't my master.

So when are you going to start listing all these masters you have?

 

[Runningman]

Such divinity as you claim you have can't be hidden. You can claim anything you want. After all, it isn't anything but a claim.

You're proving you are not like Jesus. Jesus is worthy of being worshipped. You're not.

So you reject being a partaker of the divine nature. I am pretty sure that's unChristian.

 

[Runningman]

Liar. You referenced προσκυνέω as worship toward the Father in John 4:23.

Now you refuse the same word used in

Joh 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.

When it references Jesus Christ.

You're certainly not like Jesus.

They physically bowed to Jesus, not the same thing as the spirit and truth worship that true worshippers only give to the Father. Jesus isn't included in that kind of worship according to the Bible.