Your Views on The Trinity

[Peterlag]

It's interesting when they suddenly have a spark of realization and they question how potentially billions of people throughout history have been deceived. Trinitarianism got its roots in when it became the state religion of the Roman empire. It became institutional and part of the secular law and order of that time. It was reinforced for centuries until it became cultural and they wouldn't let anyone read the Bible to check it themselves.

Now it's their tradition, not Scripture. Trinitarianism is a highly paganized version of the Christian God. They might call their god some of the same names and titles we do, but they don't have the same God. God takes offense to being misrepresented by them, but nevertheless He is a loving, merciful, and patient God.

I have friends who tell me the trinitarians are blinded by spirits and some of them are very nasty. Just as mean as the spiritual world.

 

[Runningman]

so you have not yet come out with an argument against how all things were created through Jesus. That just proves you do not have anything to back up your belief system.

The Father is alone the true God and the Bible says YHWH created alone because YHWH is the Father (Isaiah 44:24). The context of what was created through Jesus is of the church. Colossians 1:15-20 is what I quote. Beginning with verse 15, we can easily see how Jesus is not God, but rather an image of the invisible God. Paul also stated that the invisible God is the only God in 1 Timothy 1:17. Therefore Jesus is not God or the Creator.

 

[mikesw]

The Father is alone the true God and the Bible says YHWH created alone because YHWH is the Father (Isaiah 44:24). The context of what was created through Jesus is of the church. Colossians 1:15-20 is what I quote. Beginning with verse 15, we can easily see how Jesus is not God, but rather an image of the invisible God. Paul also stated that the invisible God is the only God in 1 Timothy 1:17. Therefore Jesus is not God or the Creator.

you pretend like Jesus created nothing. it is not the church he created. It is everything we see around us.

If you could find a good argument for your view and convince capable scholars and theologians, you might have a bit of basis to accept your new, novel, gnostic belief. No one on his own should be pushing his private doctrines on people when they are so contrary to sound teaching.

 

[Runningman]

I have friends who tell me the trinitarians are blinded by spirits and some of them are very nasty. Just as mean as the spiritual world.

Yes, some of them, even one of them here, have tried to summon them on me. It's crazy the extent they go to. Spiritists summoning their familiars on us isn't something we need to be concerned with as we do the will of God.

 

[mikesw]

I have friends who tell me the trinitarians are blinded by spirits and some of them are very nasty. Just as mean as the spiritual world.

You have very dark friends. The bible says people will call good evil and evil good. Be aware of those people with such spirits pretending to be friends.

 

[Runningman]

you pretend like Jesus created nothing. it is not the church he created. It is everything we see around us.

If you could find a good argument for your view and convince capable scholars and theologians, you might have a bit of basis to accept your new, novel, gnostic belief. No one on his own should be pushing his private doctrines on people when they are so contrary to sound teaching.

Nope. Jesus isn't God, remember? Colossians 1:15-20 is about the church being created through Jesus. The creation of the church occurred when it was finished on the cross.

Colossians 1
18And He is the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning and firstborn from among the dead, so that in all things He may have preeminence. 19For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him, 20and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross.

 

[Runningman]

You have very dark friends. The bible says people will call good evil and evil good. Be aware of those people with such spirits pretending to be friends.

I hope you will take your own advice.

 

[mikesw]

Nope. Jesus isn't God, remember? Colossians 1:15-20 is about the church being created through Jesus. The creation of the church occurred when it was finished on the cross.

Colossians 1
18And He is the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning and firstborn from among the dead, so that in all things He may have preeminence. 19For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him, 20and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross.

It is fitting after creating the whole universe that he also be there as the head of the church. Too bad you deny Christ

If you could find a good argument for your view and convince capable scholars and theologians, you might have a bit of basis to accept your new, novel, gnostic belief. No one on his own should be pushing his private doctrines on people when they are so contrary to sound teaching.

 

[mikesw]

I hope you will take your own advice.

I'm with normal people not these denial friends of Peterlag.

If you could find a good argument for your view and convince capable scholars and theologians, you might have a bit of basis to accept your new, novel, gnostic belief. No one on his own should be pushing his private doctrines on people when they are so contrary to sound teaching.

 

[Runningman]

It is fitting after creating the whole universe that he also be there as the head of the church. Too bad you deny Christ

If you could find a good argument for your view and convince capable scholars and theologians, you might have a bit of basis to accept your new, novel, gnostic belief. No one on his own should be pushing his private doctrines on people when they are so contrary to sound teaching.

No, because Jesus isn't called the creator, rather one who is the image of the invisible God, so Jesus is not the invisible God. Read the rest of Colossians 1:15-20. It describes Jesus as one who was created through, like a medium or channel, like a prophet, because the context is about the church.

Now my turn to show you where Jesus isn't the Creator. In Matthew 11:25, the Father is called the Lord of heaven and earth, but Acts 17:24,25 the Lord of heaven and earth is the Creator. Jesus is never called the Lord of heaven and earth in the Bible. There there is Acts 4:23-31 where the Sovereign Lord and Creator is not Jesus, but rather Jesus is His servant. So there is a servant and Lord dynamic between Jesus and God. Hebrews 1:1,2 says God didn't speak through the Son until these last days, contrary to God speaking to create in the beginning. Remember, YHWH created alone, it sounds exactly the way it looks. There wasn't a trinity creating the material universe together.

I need to remind you, don't lose sight of the fact that Jesus isn't God. Others who are not God being the Creator of the universe is heresy.

 

[Peterlag]

You have very dark friends. The bible says people will call good evil and evil good. Be aware of those people with such spirits pretending to be friends.

I was referring to you when I wrote...
I have friends who tell me the trinitarians are blinded by spirits and some of them are very nasty. Just as mean as the spiritual world.

 

[mikesw]

No, because Jesus isn't called the creator, rather one who is the image of the invisible God, so Jesus is not the invisible God. Read the rest of Colossians 1:15-20. It describes Jesus as one who was created through, like a medium or channel, like a prophet, because the context is about the church.

you purely skip the passages that show Jesus as God and therefore you conclude that Jesus is God. That is not the way bible study works

Now my turn to show you where Jesus isn't the Creator. In Matthew 11:25, the Father is called the Lord of heaven and earth, but Acts 17:24,25 the Lord of heaven and earth is the Creator. Jesus is never called the Lord of heaven and earth in the Bible.

That does not exclude the One who pre-existed and was born among humanity as Jesus. You really like to use messages addressed to random gentiles to represent deep theological thought. that is your err, not mine.

There there is Acts 4:23-31 where the Sovereign Lord and Creator is not Jesus, but rather Jesus is His servant. So there is a servant and Lord dynamic between Jesus and God.

I missed where that denies the divinity of Christ

Hebrews 1:1,2 says God didn't speak through the Son until these last days, contrary to God speaking to create in the beginning. Remember, YHWH created alone, it sounds exactly the way it looks. There wasn't a trinity creating the material universe together.

That is not even an argument. I'm embarrassed that you posted that.

I need to remind you, don't lose sight of the fact that Jesus isn't God. Others who are not God being the Creator of the universe is heresy.

If you could find a good argument for your view and convince capable scholars and theologians, you might have a bit of basis to accept your new, novel, gnostic belief. No one on his own should be pushing his private doctrines on people when they are so contrary to sound teaching.

 

[Capbook]

God and "the Son of man" are not the same being. God is sitting on the throne while the Son of man approaches Him. How could you possibly confuse the two? The Son of man received sovereignty and dominion that he didn't already possess, meaning he isn't God Almighty.

Daniel 7
9I beheld until the thrones were set, and the Ancient of days sat; and his raiment was white as snow, and the hair of his head, as pure wool: his throne was a flame of fire, and his wheels burning fire.
13I beheld in the night vision, and, lo, one coming with the clouds of heaven as the Son of man, and he came on to the Ancient of days, and was brought near to him.

Out of curiosity, do you hold to a preterist view or do you know that the second advent of Jesus hasn't happened yet?

No, I prefer historicist view. Yes, Jesus second coming hasn't happened yet. (Titus 2:13) looking forward for the appearing of Jesus our God and Savior.

Tit 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

 

[Capbook]

No, I am a Biblical Unitarian. My belief is that the Father alone is God according to what John 17:1-3 explicitly states.

Also is Jesus the eternal life through context of 1John 5:11-20.

1Jn 5:12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

You already asked me about this, we talked about it, I already explained it. Hebrews 1:8,9quoted from Psalm 45. I am in agreement with most scholars on this who believe the one being referred to in Psalm 45 is king Solomon. I don't see any issue with referring to king Solomon as elohim since many humans are called such in the Bible. Solomon isn't God though. So it doesn't follow that deity is transferred to Jesus from Psalm 45 to Hebrews 1. Solomon is elohim in the kingly since because he was a judge and magistrate, that's the only thing that transfers to Jesus in this context.

I just believe most scholars you quote does not also know where in the New Testament the "forever and ever throne" of that human king be located.

 

[Capbook]

There is a problem when there's 25 different Bibles that list the verse different than other Bibles.

Can you not present your counter argument regarding Titus 2:13?
You just quote translations without presenting your interpretation.

 

[Runningman]

No, I prefer historicist view. Yes, Jesus second coming hasn't happened yet. (Titus 2:13) looking forward for the appearing of Jesus our God and Savior.

Tit 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

Me too. When the Great God brings our Savior Jesus back at his appearing.

1 Thess 4
13Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

 

[mikesw]

I was referring to you when I wrote...
I have friends who tell me the trinitarians are blinded by spirits and some of them are very nasty. Just as mean as the spiritual world.

ah. You then call good evil and evil good. I will have to remember that.

 

[Runningman]

Also is Jesus the eternal life through context of 1John 5:11-20.

1Jn 5:12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

I just believe most scholars you quote does not also know where in the New Testament the "forever and ever throne" of that human king be located.

The fact that others like David and Solomon have eternal thrones, and Melchizedek is a priest forever really doesn't help your point much.

 

[Runningman]

you purely skip the passages that show Jesus as God and therefore you conclude that Jesus is God. That is not the way bible study works

That does not exclude the One who pre-existed and was born among humanity as Jesus. You really like to use messages addressed to random gentiles to represent deep theological thought. that is your err, not mine.

I missed where that denies the divinity of Christ


That is not even an argument. I'm embarrassed that you posted that.




If you could find a good argument for your view and convince capable scholars and theologians, you might have a bit of basis to accept your new, novel, gnostic belief. No one on his own should be pushing his private doctrines on people when they are so contrary to sound teaching.

So, long story short, Jesus is never called the creator like how the Father God is. No, not once. Isn't it weird how there isn't anything you can say that is repeated in the Bible?

 

[mikesw]

Here's 25 translations all done by Greek scholars that you say I did not send you before. The verse is saying it's the glory that will appear. Not God.

New International Version
while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

New Living Translation
while we look forward with hope to that wonderful day when the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, will be revealed.

English Standard Version
waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

Berean Literal Bible
awaiting the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

New American Standard Bible
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

NASB 1995
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

NASB 1977
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus;

Legacy Standard Bible
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

Christian Standard Bible
while we wait for the blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
while we wait for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

American Standard Version
looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

GOD'S WORD® Translation
At the same time we can expect what we hope for-the appearance of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Good News Translation
as we wait for the blessed Day we hope for, when the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ will appear.

New Heart English Bible
looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ;

World English Bible
looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

Literal Standard Version
waiting for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

Berean Literal Bible
awaiting the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

Young's Literal Translation
waiting for the blessed hope and manifestation of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ,

Smith's Literal Translation
Expecting the blessed hope, and appearance of the glory of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Douay-Rheims Bible
Looking for the blessed hope and coming of the glory of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ,

Catholic Public Domain Version
looking forward to the blessed hope and the advent of the glory of the great God and of our Savior Jesus Christ.

New American Bible
as we await the blessed hope, the appearance of the glory of the great God and of our savior Jesus Christ,

New Revised Standard Version
while we wait for the blessed hope and the manifestation of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Godbey New Testament
looking for the blessed hope even the appearing of the glory of our great God and our Saviour Christ Jesus;

Worrell New Testament
looking for the blissful hope and appearing of the glory of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ;

I see you do not have an argument against the divinity of Christ as God and Savior. All you want to do is contest that the glory somehow appears without Christ there.