You are a smart Christian for many years—but do not assume that makes you truly BORN AGAIN.

[Behold]

You are correct that salvation is completely of God, and that God does the "holding". But if we fall back out of our faith and begin living again in unrepentant sin (1 Cor 9:26-27), we can lose our salvation (Heb 6:4-6).

Let me help you out of the cult of Hebrews 6 and 10.

Notice carefully that Paul is dealing with Hebrews...These are Jews, and that is why this Epistle is called : "HEBREWS".
So, its unlike the other epistles, that are written to CHURCHES or to BELIEVERS.

And Paul is dealing with Christ Rejecting Hebrews, (JEWS) = in Chapter 6 and 10.

Now, before you start shouting....or posting more cut and paste..... i want you to go to Acts 28:28, and read that verse, carefully.
AS that verse is Hebrews 6 and 10., explained.

"compare Scripture with scripture",

 

[Doug Brents]

Faith does not save anyone, unless Faith died on the Cross for your sin.

See, Jesus is our Salvation, and if we have Him in us, then God has accepted our Faith, already.
Proof?
A.) Born agan

Now, discipleship, that follows salvation, is very faith based, as we are now in a walk of faith, but not regarding our Salvation.

You are confusing many things here.
As Eph 2:8-9 says, salvation is a gift from God that is received THROUGH faith. Thus, faith is the conduit through which salvation is brought to us, and through which we are put into Christ. Without faith we do not receive salvation and are not "in Christ".

Let me help you out of the cult of Hebrews 6 and 10.

Notice carefully that Paul is dealing with Hebrews...These are Jews, and that is why this Epistle is called : "HEBREWS".
So, its unlike the other epistles, that are written to CHURCHES or to BELIEVERS.

And Paul is dealing with Christ Rejecting Hebrews, (JEWS) = in Chapter 6 and 10.

Now, before you start shouting....or posting more cut and paste..... i want you to go to Acts 28:28, and read that verse, carefully.
AS that verse is Hebrews 6 and 10., explained.

"compare Scripture with scripture",

First off, there is no more Jew or Gentile with regard to the NT. So there is no difference in how a Jew or a Gentile receives salvation and becomes one with Christ. Rom 11:17-24 is very clear that the Jews were cut off from Christ due to unbelief and can be grafted back in if they turn to belief, and Gentiles were grafted in through belief but can be cut back off if they turn back to unbelief.

 

[Behold]

You are confusing many things here.
As Eph 2:8-9 says, salvation is a gift from God that is received THROUGH faith. Thus, faith is the conduit through which salvation is brought to us, and through which we are put into Christ. Without faith we do not receive salvation and are not "in Christ".

Im not confusing anything.
Im simply teaching that God is Salvation, as Christ on the Cross.
Not Water Baptism
Not Faith
Not Works
Not Sacraments.

God is the Savior, Christ is the means, and Faith is given to God, so that GOD will deal with your sin, and your eternity, by new birth.

First off, there is no more Jew or Gentile with regard to the NT.

Well, the Bible has "Hebrews" in it.
The Tribulation has Jews in it.

Right now, .. and starting when the Cross was raised, and ending with the start of the Trib, all humanity is in "the time of the Gentiles".
Paul is the "Apostle to the Gentiles'... And during this TIME....God is allowing non-jew, specifically, but will of course save a Hebrew.
The OT was always God dealing with Jews.
Right now, He's specifically dealing with GENTILES. "time of the Gentile".

This will end, and the Trib and Grt Trib will happen as God again begins to deal specifically with the JEW.

 

[Soyeong]

There are people who have hung around Christianity for so long, they think that profuse knowledge and association are enough to make them Christian.

You may have read the Bible 20 times through.

That's not what saves you.

You may have 3 degrees in theology.

That's not what saves you.

You may have attended church all your life and sung all the hymns.

You may have given to the poor and worked at soup kitchens.

You may have debated Christian theology for years and years.

You may have even had devotions every day.

Please know, that is NOT what saves you.


It can be a strange and disorientating thought to be so well versed in Christianese, to read so much Christian material, to surround yourself with so many relationships with Christians, and be able to consider the thought that you might actually not even be born again—it could all be a cultural thing in your head.

It takes a lot of humility for someone who thinks they are very religious and knowledgeable to even consider they might be a Christian in label and culture only.


Unless you have a real and sincere relationship with the Biblical Jesus, and have confessed to him personally your trust in his atoning Blood to cover your sins, all this religious culture and knowledge and associations do not make you an authentic Christian or get you into heaven.


When God asks you "Why should I let you into my pure and holy heaven?" and you answer anything BUT, "I am trusting in the sacrificial death of your Son for the atoning of my sins," please know you are not going to enter heaven.

You will take your place with hypocrites with weeping and gnashing of teeth.

We should all ask God, "Am I really born again, do I really trust Christ?"

I'm not just trying to create doubt, there are days I don't feel saved.

But neither do I assume religious trappings and knowledge make me authentic.


Double check today, when the last time you truly talked to Christ from the heart, and confessed faith in his sacrifice, really was.

The way to have relationship with Jesus is through having the experience of expressing his nature/fruits of the Spirit by following his example of obedience to God's law, which is also the way to be born again, which is why those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to it are not born again (1 John 3:4), and why Paul contrasted those who are born of the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to God's law (Romans 8:4-14).

However, someone can go through the motions of obeying God's law while neglecting to experience aspects of God's nature that is was given to teach us how to express, which is the way to have a relationship with Christ. For example, in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that tithing was something that they ought to be doing while not neglecting weightier matters of the law of justice, mercy, and faithfulness. So the easy way for someone to tell if they are born again is if they are living in a way that is experiencing the expression of God's nature. Our actions speak louder than our words, so it is one thing for someone to claim to trust Christ and another thing for someone to live in a way that expresses that they trust in Christ by following his example. In Luke 6:46, Jesus asked why people called him Lord, Lord, but did not do what he said.

 

[Behold]

The way to have relationship with Jesus

Is by giving faith in Christ to God, who will then SAVE YOU... by cleansing all your sin in the Blood of Jesus, and then He'll give you the new Birth, that joins your spirit to His, as "in Christ" "one with God" = Born Again.
That is how you "relationship with Jesus".
There is NO OTHER WAY... = John 14:6

People who try to relationship with God and Christ by law and commandments, will be told...>"Depart from ME, i never knew you".

Jesus said "you must be born again".

 

[Doug Brents]

Im not confusing anything.
Im simply teaching that God is Salvation, as Christ on the Cross.
Not Water Baptism
Not Faith
Not Works
Not Sacraments.

God is the Savior, Christ is the means, and Faith is given to God, so that GOD will deal with your sin, and your eternity, by new birth.

God (in the form of Jesus) is the savior, Christ is the Greek word that means savior just as Messiah is the Hebrew word that means savior. Faith is our response to God, and it is through us giving our faith to God (as you put it so well) that God deals with our sin. If we do not exhibit our faith in baptism (as commanded in Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, and others) then we do not receive God's gift of salvation.

Well, the Bible has "Hebrews" in it.
The Tribulation has Jews in it.

Indeed those distinctions are still made, just as there are still male and female, slave and free, etc. So if those distinctions remain yet Scripture says they do not still remain, it must be in terms of something else (salvation in the NT) that they no longer exist.

Right now, .. and starting when the Cross was raised, and ending with the start of the Trib, all humanity is in "the time of the Gentiles".
Paul is the "Apostle to the Gentiles'... And during this TIME....God is allowing non-jew, specifically, but will of course save a Hebrew.
The OT was always God dealing with Jews.
Right now, He's specifically dealing with GENTILES. "time of the Gentile".

This will end, and the Trib and Grt Trib will happen as God again begins to deal specifically with the JEW.

The great trib began in AD70, and is still ongoing. The Gentiles who believe have been added to Israel, and those Jews who do not believe in Jesus have been cut off from Israel (Rom 11:17-24). The great trib will end with the second coming which will include the complete and total destruction of the physical universe (2 Pet 3:10, Rev 21:1).

 

[Soyeong]

Is by giving faith in Christ to God, who will then SAVE YOU... by cleansing all your sin in the Blood of Jesus, and then He'll give you the new Birth, that joins your spirit to His, as "in Christ" "one with God" = Born Again.
That is how you "relationship with Jesus".
There is NO OTHER WAY... = John 14:6

People who try to relationship with God and Christ by law and commandments, will be told...>"Depart from ME, i never knew you".

Jesus said "you must be born again".

The Hebrew word "yada" refers to intimate relational knowledge gained through experience, such as in Genesis 4:1, Adam knew (yada) Eve, she conceived, and gave birth to Cain. The Mosaic Covenant is often described as being a marriage relationship between God and Israel, so the purpose of the Mosaic Law is to teach us how to have that relationship through having the experience of testifying about His nature. According to Genesis 18:19, God's way is the way to testify about aspects of His nature such as by doing righteousness and justice, in Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he might know (yada) Him and Israel too, and in 1 Kings 2:1-3, God taught how to walk in His way through the Mosaic Law. In Jeremiah 9:3 and 9:6 they did not know (yada) God and refused to know Him because in 9:13, they had forsaken the Mosaic Law, while in 9:24, those who know God know that He delights in practicing steadfast love, justice, and righteousness in all of the earth, so delighting in testifying about those and other aspects of God's nature by obeying His law is the way to know Him, and the way to know Jesus, who is the exact image of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3). In 1 John 2:4, those who say that they know Jesus, but don't obey His commands are liars, and in 1 John 3:4-6, those who continue to practice sin in transgression of the Mosaic Law have neither seen nor known him. In Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus did not say that he would tell those who try to have a relationship with God and him by doing His will in obedience to His law to depart from him because he never knew them, but rather he said that only those who do the will of the Father will enter the Kingdom of Heaven and that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them.

So the goal of the law is to have the experience of knowing God and Jesus through testifying about His nature, which is eternal life (John 17:3), which is also why Jesus said that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's law (Matthew 19:17, Luke 10:25-28). There are also a number of verses where Jesus said that the way to enter eternal life is by believing in Him, which is straightforwardly because God's law is His instructions for how to believe in Jesus through testifying about His nature. For example, when we do good works in obedience to God's law we are testifying about God's goodness, which is why our good works bring glory to him (Matthew 5:16), which is also expressing the belief in God's goodness, and it is by this faith that we are saved. Furthermore, becoming born again means becoming someone who testifies about God's nature in obedience to His law, which is why those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to it are not born again (1 John 3:10).

God's law is His way (Psalms 119:1-3), the truth (Psalms 119:142), and the life (Deuteronomy 32:46-47), and the way to see and know the Father (Exodus 33:13) and Jesus God's word made flesh, so he is the embodiment of the way, the truth, and the life, and the way to see and know the Father (John 14:6-7). Believing in God's word is not a different way to the Father than believing in God's word made flesh.

 

[Behold]

If we do not exhibit our faith in baptism

Who has led you to believe and teach, that "faith in Christ" is the same thing as "faith in getting into some water". Or that Salvation that is to be born again, is not different than being water baptized?

Paul said this...>"Christ sent me not to water baptize".

There is one faith, and one baptism, that are connected to The Cross, and this verse... John 14:6.... and WATER is not found THERE.

The great trib began in AD70, and is still ongoing.

So, you are teaching "water cult"....>"water baptism for salvation is a must", and you are a Preterist..

Thats a lot of Cult teaching in your head.

Its all man made.

 

[Doug Brents]

Who has led you to believe and teach, that "faith in Christ" is the same thing as "faith in getting into some water".

Extensive study of God's word, with extensive reading of the arguments from both sides of the issue. And it is not "faith in getting into some water". It is faith in Christ to do as He promised when we do what was commanded.

So, you are teaching "water cult"....>"water baptism for salvation is a must", and you are a Preterist..

Thats a lot of Cult teaching in your head.

Its all man made.

Only God's word is in my head. You can label it whatever you like, but Scripture is very clear that water baptism is the point at which we become "in Christ", and without passing through the water we do not enter the Kingdom of God.
It is also clear that the tribulation is going on now, the 1000 years will occur in Heaven after the second coming of God, and that only the righteous, dead and alive, will participate in that thousand year wedding celebration, while the evil dead (all the evil will die at the second coming since the Earth and all of the physical universe will cease to exist at that point) will be raised at Judgement and then sent to the Lake of Fire for eternity with Satan. Pretrib, post trib, etc just get things out of order.

 

[Rockerduck]

When God chose me, I was filled, and mean filled with the Holy Spirit. It radiated from me. My unsaved family and friends stared at me in wonder. My then friends left me so fast, then eventually my unsaved wife. You must be Born again from above to feel the power of the Holy Spirit in you. Its been 40 yrs. now. I am still in awe of His presence in me. Water dunking can't do that for you, all you are doing is taking a bath. Water baptism is a symbol to Identify with Jesus; passing from your old adamic nature to His new creation in you.

 

[Johann]

Addendum- having the right answers in your head doesn’t mean there has been a heart transplant, a new heart. The difference they say between heaven and hell is the distance between the brain and the heart- 18 inches. One needs both the mind and the heart.

You hit the nail that sticks out right on the head.
Old Japanese saying.
J.

 

[Doug Brents]

When God chose me, I was filled, and mean filled with the Holy Spirit. It radiated from me. My unsaved family and friends stared at me in wonder. My then friends left me so fast, then eventually my unsaved wife. You must be Born again from above to feel the power of the Holy Spirit in you. Its been 40 yrs. now. I am still in awe of His presence in me. Water dunking can't do that for you, all you are doing is taking a bath. Water baptism is a symbol to Identify with Jesus; passing from your old adamic nature to His new creation in you.

No, in baptism you are not "taking a bath" as 1 Pet 3:21 says, "not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience". It is not the cleansing of the body that is accomplished in baptism, but the cleansing of the soul by the Holy Spirit (Col 2:11-12). You can feel changed all day long, and you can act differently for the rest of your life, and you can do great works in the name of Christ that would make Paul feel ashamed, but you are not saved if you have not had your sins removed which occurs during water baptism (Matt 7:21-23, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38).

 

[Seabass]

There are people who have hung around Christianity for so long, they think that profuse knowledge and association are enough to make them Christian.

You may have read the Bible 20 times through

You may have attended church all your life and sung all the hymns.

You may have given to the poor and worked at soup kitchens.

That's not what saves you.

James says the engrafted word is able to save your souls. No one can be saved while in ignorance of the word...how can one believe in God's word if one does not even know what God's word says? In the OT, Hosea wrote 'my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge'.

One cannot be born again apart from the word, 1 Per 1:23, James 1:18; one must be a doer of the word James 1:22; the word must be obeyed 2 Thess 3:14; the word must dwell in the Christian, Col 3:16; there can be no faith apart from the word Rom 10:16; no sanctification apart from the word Jn 17:17...

Church attendance, singing hymns, doing good works (Heb 10:25; Eph 5:19; Tts 3:8.14) are all necessary part of the Christian's salvation for salvation is not possible apart from these things. Some even try and narrow salvation down to just one thing when there are so many necessary things involved in salvation.

 

[MatthewG]

Walking in faith, not by sight, having Yahava in your heart, looking towards the Son of God, and believing all about the things which Yeshua stated "The work of God is to believe in the one whom he had sent" having love for Yahava, and love for others by the grace of God is what saves a person and brings forth (salvation) deliverance. They will homolego from their heart, to their mouth their confession. Not only if it is spirit lead to share with other people, but also alone when they wake up in their bed, or on the street every morning, they live a life with Yahava is in it every day, and they believe in their heart that that Yeshua has done everything and that leads the individual to do good works which Yahava made for those who come to him which is Yahava working in and through us by what? His Spirit, the Holy Spirit, even the Spirit of Christ. It will bring a person to have stead faith, even up and down faith, to have faith, and to love God first even through ups and downs of faith, and to love their neighbor as theirself. May you continue to trust in Yahava, and abide in the Lord Yeshua.

 

[APAK]

Church attendance, singing hymns, doing good works (Heb 10:25; Eph 5:19; Tts 3:8.14) are all necessary part of the Christian's salvation for salvation is not possible apart from these things. Some even try and narrow salvation down to just one thing when there are so many necessary things involved in salvation.

Really..all these things? and I guess more things you may have forgotten to mention. I seriously disagree with your assessment. I never know that Churchianity played a role in one's salvation.

 

[Seabass]

Really..all these things? and I guess more things you may have forgotten to mention. I seriously disagree with your assessment. I never know that Churchianity played a role in one's salvation.

I gave verses to back it up. One cannot become a Christian yet be void of good works (Matt 25:31f; John 15:2) and expect to be saved. Singing is a commanded which requires church attendance avoiding forsaking the assembly. The Bible lays it all out at to what the Christian must do.

 

[civic]

I think some have as their god, theology.....and not the God of the theology.

God gives us a litmus test where we can KNOW if we've passed from death to life. 1 Jn 3:14

We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death. 1 John 3:14

The most important thing in life if to KNOW Christ. I mean really know him personally in fellowship of Spirit. Jesus will say to many who claimed him as Lord, "I never knew you" meaning you weren't one with me in Spirit and fellowship.

Amen. I just noticed this thread.

 

[Dizerner]

One thing I hear from Christian’s all the time which is never once mentioned in the Bible btw.

Why should I let you into heaven asked either by God the Father or Christ.

That’s a fairy tale, make believe.There is no entering the pearly gates with any type of Q and A.

You're missing the point, it's a hypothetical.

Nobody is saying that's really what happened, the point is to see what you are trusting in.

 

[Grace ambassador]

op: smart christians?
Yes, with Many disagreements; no wonder God's Word Of Truth Exhorts And Admonishes:

"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. ​

Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ​

ye be reprobates?" (2 Corinthians 13:5)​

​

Doesn't That Directly Mean: 'smart' christians, Stop examining others?

Amen.

 

[Dizerner]

"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. ​

Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ​

ye be reprobates?" (2 Corinthians 13:5)​

Good verse.