"Works Salvation"

[brightfame52]

Exactly, but spiritual death is not like physical death.
In physical death, the body cannot perform any actions. But in spiritual death, the soul can still function, make decisions, communicate, and take actions like choosing to accept Jesus as Lord that leads to salvation. This is depicted in many places in Scripture.

Oh, His death did much more than blot out their sins, but that is not what we are discussing.

His death blots out each person's sins when they obey the Gospel. His death did not remove their sins when He died, nor before they were born. Paul was still in sin when Ananias came to him. The eunuch was still in sin when Philip preached to him.

His Death blotted out their sins, forgiveness, that's Salvation in the legal since, and is the foundation for Spiritual life to be given. See forgiveness is an aspect of Salvation Lk 1:77

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

In Acts 13 God sent the word of Salvation to them who Paul preached to them the forgiveness of sins Acts

13:26,38

Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.

38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

So no action on their part needed, Christ did it all, they were given the knowledge of it by preaching

 

[Behold]

our salvation still requires us to choose to be doers of the law,

Jesus on the Cross is "Our Salvation".

So, when you teach that its DOING LAW instead, you just spit on the Cross, by Denying it. (Again).

Seems to be your ministry on quite a few forums, @Soyeong

I can never understand how anyone can be a MOD who would read what you teach, and not be offended in their Spirit.

What you teach offends the Holy Spirit, and how can that not affect MODS on Forums?

How can a "Christian" forum, that is supposed to Honor What Jesus has done, allow blatant assaults against the Grace of God and the Cross of Christ.

But they do.

They allow Calvinism to be TAUGHT.
And they allow "law as required for salvation" to be Taught.

These heresies should be sent to places that are designed for them to be taught., and that is not a Christian Forum.

 

[Grace ambassador]

op: works salvation?

Certainly, but not the way some think, eh?:

"But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not​

trust in ourselves, but in God Which raiseth the dead: Who delivered​

us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in Whom we trust that He​

will yet deliver us;" (2 Corinthians 1:9-10 AV)​

A) Saviourship Salvation/Deliverance, humbly "submitting to God's Righteousness":

► faith ◄ Past Tense = "...God delivered us from so great a death...":

God Establishes HIS Eternal Relationship With those who
humbly repent (change mind that "sin is Wrong!") and:

believe, 100% trust, place Total faith, In The LORD JESUS CHRIST, HIS
Death (Precious BLOOD), Burial, And HIS Resurrection, According To
The Scriptures! (1 Corinthians 15:3-4; Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3-5 AV)

"GRACE Through faith" In The Merits Of HIS ALL-Sufficient BLOOD Results:

All sins Forgiven, His Eternal Life, And, Peace With God!
(Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 2:13; Romans 6:23, 5:1 AV)

This Is Eternal Deliverance From the Penalty of sin,
The So Great A [ Second ] Death! (Revelation 21:8 AV) =
Justification and Spiritual Sanctification (2 Corinthians 1:10a
cp Romans 3:24 AV)

► faith ◄ God's ETERNAL (One-Time Only) Justification/Relationship Is
First, Saviourship Salvation/Deliverance, And, Then:

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From "Things That Differ" (online)

B) Lordship Sanctification/Deliverance:

►► love ◄◄ Present Tense = "...God doth deliver us...":

All believers Should do "good works (faith which worketh by love!)" {Which
will Never Equal CHRIST's [ Infinite ] Payment For the above Penalty of sin!},
for Which we Are Created In CHRIST JESUS, to perform for Him, having
"been Called into fellowship With Him!" (Ephesians 2:10; 1 Corinthians 1:9 AV)
Amen?:

We "work out our own salvation" (Philippians 2:12). This Should Be a lifetime of humble
Daily submission, and renewing, being "not conformed to this world" (Romans 12:1-2 AV),
for Grace Deliverance From the Power of sin!} (2 Corinthians 1:10b AV) =

personal sanctification:

(1) Christ Living In/Through us, To Fulfil:

All Of His Law, In ONE Word: ►► love ◄◄ thy neighbor​

as thyself!" (Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10 AV)​

(2) His Spirit Guiding and Teaching us, How To:

"Study to show thyself Approved Unto God, a​

workman that needeth not to be ashamed, Rightly​

Dividing The Word Of Truth!" (2 Timothy 2:15 AV)​

Eternal Results: reward [ or loss ] (1 Corinthians 3:8-15 AV),
ruling and reigning [ or not ] With CHRIST, Which Will Finally
Be At The Judgment Day! At our:

C) Final Eternal Glorification/Deliverance:​

►►► Blessed Hope ◄◄◄ Future Tense = "...God Will Yet Deliver us":

CHRIST's Glorification of All "members" Of HIS Body!!​

{This Is Eternal Deliverance From the Presence of sin!}​

(1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:51-57; 2 Corinthians 1:10c AV).

Hallelujah! Praise HIS Excellent Name!!

Amen.

 

[Doug Brents]

His Death blotted out their sins, forgiveness, that's Salvation in the legal since, and is the foundation for Spiritual life to be given. See forgiveness is an aspect of Salvation Lk 1:77

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

In Acts 13 God sent the word of Salvation to them who Paul preached to them the forgiveness of sins Acts

13:26,38

Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.

38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

So no action on their part needed, Christ did it all, they were given the knowledge of it by preaching

Absolutely forgiveness is an aspect of salvation. But a person is not forgiven before they commit the sin, nor are they forgiven from before they were born. The payment (Jesus' blood) that covers their sin was made 2000 years ago, but the application of the benefit of that payment is not applied to any individual until that individual obeys the Gospel.

 

[brightfame52]

Absolutely forgiveness is an aspect of salvation. But a person is not forgiven before they commit the sin, nor are they forgiven from before they were born. The payment (Jesus' blood) that covers their sin was made 2000 years ago, but the application of the benefit of that payment is not applied to any individual until that individual obeys the Gospel.

Yes they are forgiven before they commit sin, Christ died for their sins before they committed it. Duh

 

[Doug Brents]

Yes they are forgiven before they commit sin, Christ died for their sins before they committed it. Duh

If that were the case, then Paul lied to the people in Corinth in 1 Cor 6:11. These people were dead in their sin (even after Christ died) until they obeyed the Gospel (Acts 6:7-11, Heb 5:9)

 

[brightfame52]

If that were the case, then Paul lied to the people in Corinth in 1 Cor 6:11. These people were dead in their sin (even after Christ died) until they obeyed the Gospel (Acts 6:7-11, Heb 5:9)

No Paul didnt lie, why sling accusations like that ? Just because you dont believe Jesus died for sin before it was committed.

 

[Doug Brents]

No Paul didnt lie, why sling accusations like that ? Just because you dont believe Jesus died for sin before it was committed.

Whether Jesus died before the sin was committed or not is not at issue. What is at issue is whether or not the sin was forgiven before it was committed.
Scripture says clearly that sin is not forgiven before it is committed. Sin is only forgiven (ever since Jesus died) when a person accepts Jesus' Gospel and His Lordship, and exhibit faith in Him. Until that is done, a person remains condemned by the sin they have committed.

 

[brightfame52]

Whether Jesus died before the sin was committed or not is not at issue. What is at issue is whether or not the sin was forgiven before it was committed.
Scripture says clearly that sin is not forgiven before it is committed. Sin is only forgiven (ever since Jesus died) when a person accepts Jesus' Gospel and His Lordship, and exhibit faith in Him. Until that is done, a person remains condemned by the sin they have committed.

Of course its the issue, Those for whom Christ died, their sins are blotted out, they are forgiven. They are born into the world as sinners but forgiven. They dont need to be baptized or anything, they dont need to anything, Christ did it for them. Yet sooner or later they will be regenerated and the Gospel will be sent to them informing them of their forgiveness of sins. Acts 13:38

38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

Preached to them is the objective fact of the forgiveness of their sins.

The word preached is the greek word katangellō

To announce, declare, promulgate, make known

The preaching makes it known, their forgiveness of sins

 

[simpleton]

I'm glad to hear it, as that is awesome. Highly commendable. Were they church going? When did you get saved?

I went a local non denominational church in the neighborhood. My parents were not churchgoers.

 

[Theophilus]

I went a local non denominational church in the neighborhood. My parents were not churchgoers.

Non denomination is where it's at for me. That's interesting about your parents as mine took me to church and droped me off and then they went back home. But they were both believers. I have no idea why they didn't attend church.

 

[Soyeong]

Jesus on the Cross is "Our Salvation".

So, when you teach that its DOING LAW instead, you just spit on the Cross, by Denying it. (Again).

Seems to be your ministry on quite a few forums, @Soyeong

I can never understand how anyone can be a MOD who would read what you teach, and not be offended in their Spirit.

What you teach offends the Holy Spirit, and how can that not affect MODS on Forums?

How can a "Christian" forum, that is supposed to Honor What Jesus has done, allow blatant assaults against the Grace of God and the Cross of Christ.

But they do.

They allow Calvinism to be TAUGHT.
And they allow "law as required for salvation" to be Taught.

These heresies should be sent to places that are designed for them to be taught., and that is not a Christian Forum.

In Titus 2:11-14, it describes our salvation as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so God graciously teaching us to obey His law part of the content of His gift of salvation, which requires our participation. Furthermore, in Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross while returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from is what would be spitting on the cross. Likewise, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, so that is in accordance with the Spirit, not an offense to the Spirit. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith, not an assault against God's grace.

 

[Doug Brents]

Of course its the issue, Those for whom Christ died, their sins are blotted out, they are forgiven. They are born into the world as sinners but forgiven. They dont need to be baptized or anything, they dont need to anything, Christ did it for them. Yet sooner or later they will be regenerated and the Gospel will be sent to them informing them of their forgiveness of sins. Acts 13:38

38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

Preached to them is the objective fact of the forgiveness of their sins.

The word preached is the greek word katangellō

To announce, declare, promulgate, make known

The preaching makes it known, their forgiveness of sins

The ways you twist the Scriptures is entertaining, but much more disturbing. Forgiveness of sin is indeed a fact. But not before a person hears the Gospel and accepts it. A person's sins are not forgiven before they sin, and especially not before they are born. Sin is forgiven after it is repented of (Acts 3:19), and without repentance the sin is not forgiven. A person is not part of the "elect" until that person repents and is baptized.

 

[brightfame52]

The ways you twist the Scriptures is entertaining, but much more disturbing. Forgiveness of sin is indeed a fact. But not before a person hears the Gospel and accepts it. A person's sins are not forgiven before they sin, and especially not before they are born. Sin is forgiven after it is repented of (Acts 3:19), and without repentance the sin is not forgiven. A person is not part of the "elect" until that person repents and is baptized.

Those for whom Christ died have had their sins purged away by His Death before they are born, so they are forgiven of all sins before they are born Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

And we have people like you saying they need to be water baptized before their sins are remitted, that's works religion.

Even those in Acts 3:19 were born with their sins purged away by Christ.

 

[civic]

op: works salvation?

Certainly, but not the way some think, eh?:

"But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not​

trust in ourselves, but in God Which raiseth the dead: Who delivered​

us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in Whom we trust that He​

will yet deliver us;" (2 Corinthians 1:9-10 AV)​

A) Saviourship Salvation/Deliverance, humbly "submitting to God's Righteousness":

► faith ◄ Past Tense = "...God delivered us from so great a death...":

God Establishes HIS Eternal Relationship With those who
humbly repent (change mind that "sin is Wrong!") and:

believe, 100% trust, place Total faith, In The LORD JESUS CHRIST, HIS
Death (Precious BLOOD), Burial, And HIS Resurrection, According To
The Scriptures! (1 Corinthians 15:3-4; Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3-5 AV)

"GRACE Through faith" In The Merits Of HIS ALL-Sufficient BLOOD Results:

All sins Forgiven, His Eternal Life, And, Peace With God!
(Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 2:13; Romans 6:23, 5:1 AV)

This Is Eternal Deliverance From the Penalty of sin,
The So Great A [ Second ] Death! (Revelation 21:8 AV) =
Justification and Spiritual Sanctification (2 Corinthians 1:10a
cp Romans 3:24 AV)

► faith ◄ God's ETERNAL (One-Time Only) Justification/Relationship Is
First, Saviourship Salvation/Deliverance, And, Then:

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From "Things That Differ" (online)

B) Lordship Sanctification/Deliverance:

►► love ◄◄ Present Tense = "...God doth deliver us...":

All believers Should do "good works (faith which worketh by love!)" {Which
will Never Equal CHRIST's [ Infinite ] Payment For the above Penalty of sin!},
for Which we Are Created In CHRIST JESUS, to perform for Him, having
"been Called into fellowship With Him!" (Ephesians 2:10; 1 Corinthians 1:9 AV)
Amen?:

We "work out our own salvation" (Philippians 2:12). This Should Be a lifetime of humble
Daily submission, and renewing, being "not conformed to this world" (Romans 12:1-2 AV),
for Grace Deliverance From the Power of sin!} (2 Corinthians 1:10b AV) =

personal sanctification:

(1) Christ Living In/Through us, To Fulfil:

All Of His Law, In ONE Word: ►► love ◄◄ thy neighbor​

as thyself!" (Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10 AV)​

(2) His Spirit Guiding and Teaching us, How To:

"Study to show thyself Approved Unto God, a​

workman that needeth not to be ashamed, Rightly​

Dividing The Word Of Truth!" (2 Timothy 2:15 AV)​

Eternal Results: reward [ or loss ] (1 Corinthians 3:8-15 AV),
ruling and reigning [ or not ] With CHRIST, Which Will Finally
Be At The Judgment Day! At our:

C) Final Eternal Glorification/Deliverance:​

►►► Blessed Hope ◄◄◄ Future Tense = "...God Will Yet Deliver us":

CHRIST's Glorification of All "members" Of HIS Body!!​

{This Is Eternal Deliverance From the Presence of sin!}​

(1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:51-57; 2 Corinthians 1:10c AV).

Hallelujah! Praise HIS Excellent Name!!

Amen.

PTL !!!!

 

[Doug Brents]

Those for whom Christ died have had their sins purged away by His Death before they are born, so they are forgiven of all sins before they are born Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

And we have people like you saying they need to be water baptized before their sins are remitted, that's works religion.

Even those in Acts 3:19 were born with their sins purged away by Christ.

The phrase "by himself" is not in the original text. It was added by the KJV, the Webster's Bible Translation, and the World English Bible. It is not in any other translation.
Further, this passage does not state that He removed sin before a person is born. If that were the case, then no man would ever be guilty of sin, because Jesus died for all men (every person who has ever been born or ever will be born), and God does not want anyone to be condemned. He wants everyone to come to repentance and salvation, but He knows that not everyone (in fact, very few people) will come to repentance. This passage states that Jesus removes sin, but it does not state when sin is removed from each individual. There are many other passages that tell us when sin is removed, like Acts 3:19 that says it is removed from a person after they repent, not before.

 

[brightfame52]

The phrase "by himself" is not in the original text. It was added by the KJV, the Webster's Bible Translation, and the World English Bible. It is not in any other translation.
Further, this passage does not state that He removed sin before a person is born. If that were the case, then no man would ever be guilty of sin, because Jesus died for all men (every person who has ever been born or ever will be born), and God does not want anyone to be condemned. He wants everyone to come to repentance and salvation, but He knows that not everyone (in fact, very few people) will come to repentance. This passage states that Jesus removes sin, but it does not state when sin is removed from each individual. There are many other passages that tell us when sin is removed, like Acts 3:19 that says it is removed from a person after they repent, not before.

It doesnt have to be, thats still what it means, when He sat down at the right hand of God, our sins were purged. Also those in Acts 3:19 are already forgiven and already regenerated, Jesus turned them from their sins Acts 3:26

Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Acts 3:19 is their conversion experience, they are passive and being converted

And lastly, they are specifically Gods elect, children of the Promise Acts 3:25

Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto
Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

This is also limited effectual atonement

 

[Doug Brents]

It doesnt have to be, thats still what it means, when He sat down at the right hand of God, our sins were purged. Also those in Acts 3:19 are already forgiven and already regenerated, Jesus turned them from their sins Acts 3:26

Acts 3:26 does not say that God has already forgiven your sins. It says that He came to turn you from your wicked ways. If you don't turn, then He does not forgive. Rev 3:20 says, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me." Jesus does not come barging in and force people to accept Him. He comes and stands at the door. If a person opens the door to Him, then He will come in and form a relationship with us. But if we do not open the door, He remains outside, there is no relationship, and there is no forgiveness of sin.

Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Acts 3:19 is their conversion experience, they are passive and being converted

And lastly, they are specifically Gods elect, children of the Promise Acts 3:25

Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto
Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

This is also limited effectual atonement

There is atonement for everyone who accepts Jesus as Lord. It is limited only in that it only effects those who accept Jesus.

 

[brightfame52]

Acts 3:26 does not say that God has already forgiven your sins. It says that He came to turn you from your wicked ways. If you don't turn, then He does not forgive. Rev 3:20 says, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me." Jesus does not come barging in and force people to accept Him. He comes and stands at the door. If a person opens the door to Him, then He will come in and form a relationship with us. But if we do not open the door, He remains outside, there is no relationship, and there is no forgiveness of sin.

There is atonement for everyone who accepts Jesus as Lord. It is limited only in that it only effects those who accept Jesus.

They are already forgiven, everyone Christ died for is born forgiven, He took away their sins 1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Again He purged theirs sins and sat down Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Everyone He shed His Blood for has remission of sins or forgiveness of sins Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
They were partakers of the Covenant Acts 3:25

25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Of course you dont understand these things

 

[Begotten]

They are already forgiven, everyone Christ died for is born forgiven, He took away their sins 1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Again He purged theirs sins and sat down Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Everyone He shed His Blood for has remission of sins or forgiveness of sins Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
They were partakers of the Covenant Acts 3:25

25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Of course you dont understand these things

On this one I'm going with Christ's Death on the cross removed the sin barrier that separated us from God. What I'm saying is that he removed all of our sin, past, present and future. That saving grace is only applied to us after we accept Jesus as lord. After We believe in him and what he did on the cross to save us.

Mainstream Christianity almost exclusively speaks of salvation as a present reality in the life of a Christian. It is viewed as the state of believers at the moment they accept Jesus Christ as Savior.