"Works Salvation"

[brightfame52]

I don't condition salvation on anything. God does.

False God condition salvation on Christ work

 

[mailmandan]

Yes, they are works, but they are not works of law that Paul spoke against. They are works done in obeying the gospel.

We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”

 

[civic]

So your calling John the baptist A liar. Got it.

Your also calling paul a liar. when he said we were baptized by the spirit who raised Christ from the dead.

There is no water in Romans 6. the thing we were baptized into was the death of Christ. Only God can do this.

thats where you fail. again, the origional greek word baptizo should be your guide. Not an english word which never existed before. but is a transliteration of that word



Thats not what John said.

He said he will baptize you with the holy spirit and fire..

the fire he said is a fire that shall never be quenched. there is only come fire in scripture that fits this defenition, and that is the fires of hell.

On the last judgment, all who reject christ will be "immersed" or "placed into" the fire.

Your not supposed to seek this baptism. Any more than you are supposed to seek the anointing of the spirit. these two works of God happen the moment one is saved.

Get off this person.. I am not a follower of man.. I pray you are not either. lets get to the word..

Believe a lie? if you think Baptize was an original English word. You have believed the lie

Baptize comes from the greek word Baptizo - they removed the o and replaced with an E and made a new english word.
Baptism comes from the greek baptismo. they removed the O and made a new english word.


I can go on and on. If you would like to study the greek words. i would be more than happy to help you

yep its all greek to him.

 

[Jim]

We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”

Well yes but believing the gospel is more than just mental assent of the truth of the gospel.

 

[mailmandan]

Well yes but believing the gospel is more than just mental assent of the truth of the gospel.

Mental assent belief would be merely believing that the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ "happened." Even the demons believe that, and they are not saved. Believing the gospel unto salvation goes beyond mere mental assent belief and trusts in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) That is the difference between believing in our head and believing in our heart.

 

[Jim]

Mental assent belief would be merely believing that the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ "happened." Even the demons believe that, and they are not saved. Believing the gospel unto salvation goes beyond mere mental assent belief and trusts in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) That is the difference between believing in our head and believing in our heart.

You have said that trusting the gospel is believing in our heart. That does not seem to me to be a very good definition. What does that actually mean? How does one do that?

 

[civic]

You have said that trusting the gospel is believing in our heart. That does not seem to me to be a very good definition. What does that actually mean? How does one do that?

Its not just mental assent. Its ones entire being much like loving God with your entire being- heart, mind, will, soul and strength. Think of it as the person is sold out to Christ.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

As usual, you do not read very well. He definitely does not preach baptism as a requirement for salvation. He is basically Calvinistic. He preaches that nothing we do is required for salvation. But as I said, you read very poorly and tend so often to read into the writings of others what you want to see there rather than what is written there.

You do not listen very well. He is arguing against me because I do not believe we get water baptized to be saved.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

No, not in other words. Rather, in your words.

Yes, we know you absolutely loath the truth of scripture and the meaning of words..

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Its not just mental assent. Its ones entire being much like loving God with your entire being- heart, mind, will, soul and strength. Think of it as the person is sold out to Christ.

if he would look up the word. the word means to have an assurance, to have a confidence in. to trust. it is not mere belief where we have no faith.

 

[Jim]

You do not listen very well. He is arguing against me because I do not believe we get water baptized to be saved.

He doesn't believe we get water baptized to get saved either.

 

[Jim]

Yes, we know you absolutely loath the truth of scripture and the meaning of words..

Says the pot to the kettle.

 

[Jim]

if he would look up the word. the word means to have an assurance, to have a confidence in. to trust. it is not mere belief where we have no faith.

Again, no real description of the difference between trust and mental assent. You can claim that you have an assurance, to have a confidence in, to trust that the parachute will safely take you to the ground if you jump out of an airplane, but until you actually jump out of a plane and put the parachute to the test, it is no more than mental assent.

 

[civic]

The doctrine of faith and salvation. Faith Basics 101

πίστις, (a) faith, belief, trust, generally of the leaning of the entire human personality upon God or the Messiah in absolute trust and confidence in His power, wisdom, and goodness. The older meaning, intellectual conviction of certain truths, is often present. (In Eph. 1:15 [shorter text] εἰς = among); (b) with the article, the faith (in Lk. 18:8 perhaps the necessary faith or the faith that perseveres), the Christian faith, Ac. 6:7, 13:8, 16:5, 24:24, Gal. 1:23, 3:23, 6:10, Eph. 4:13, Jude 3, Jude 20, &c.; (c) as a psychological faculty, Heb. 11:1; (d) integrity, faithfulness, trustworthiness, loyalty, Mt. 23:23, Rom. 1:17(?), Gal. 5:22, 2 Tim. 4:7; (e) a guarantee, Ac. 17:31.[1] Lexicon to the Greek New Testament.

1-You are not born with faith, it comes from hearing Gods word(Rom 10:17)
2-You cannot be saved without faith.(John 3:36)
3-No peace with God without faith.(Rom 5:1)
4-You are justified by faith(Gal 2:16)
5-Christ dwells in our hearts by faith (Eph 3:17)
6-The Spirit is received by faith (Gal 3:2)
7- You become a child of God through faith ( John 1:12-13 )
8- You are sealed with the Holy Spirit after you believe the gospel ( Ephesians 1:13 )

Faith that saves demonstrated below.

Luke 19:5-10

5 And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.

6 And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully.

7 And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.

8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, for so much as he also is a son of Abraham.

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

To save- it means to deliver out of danger

Salvation- refers to the activity which produces the state of safety

Savior- is reserved for the one who saves.

We sometimes talk about saving things but Jesus only used the word in with man whom He saved.

Luke 19:9- This is the only time Jesus used the word salvation and that was with Zacchaeus. Christ’s purpose was one of seeking and saving the lost. Zacchaeus was a rich tax collector who was looked down upon for his livelihood. He was despised by those around him. When Jesus approached him and Zacchaeus looked up at Him , Jesus asked him to use his house and Zacchaeus gladly came down and received Him. When they went into the house the multitude murmured and within a short visit Zacchaeus was repentant of his ill gains which was evidence of his new found faith in the Savior. Salvation is the power that takes hold of a person and remakes him.

Here are some verses that Jesus used the word save.

Luke 6:9- Jesus restored the withered hand

Luke 8:48- Jesus healed the woman with the issue of blood

Luke 8:50- Jesus raised Jairus daughter from the dead

Luke 17:19- Jesus cleansed the lepers

Luke 18:42- Jesus healed the blind


So as we can see to save means to completely remove or destroy those destructive forces. To restore all that had been lost. Salvation in the teaching of Jesus is the complete change from one condition to its opposite. Jesus confronted man with the reality of sin. The religious people of his day hated Him without a cause because they loved their sin. Jesus taught us to “repent toward God”(Matt 4:17) To believe in Me (John 6:28,29) and “test Me”, will to do My will. ( John 7:17)

Eternal life is to know Christ ( John 17:3) Jesus said you are my disciples if you abide in Me. ( John 8:31,32) Apart from Him I can do nothing.(John 15:5)

Faith is a conviction of the mind that Christ is God. Jesus said unless you believe that “ I AM” you will die in your sins.(John 8:24) Read the whole chapter. Paul declared one must confess Jesus is Lord(YHWH) to be saved and those who call upon Him will be delivered(Joel 2:32). Secondly it is a voluntary surrender to Him as Lord or Master of your life. By faith our mind trusts in God, our heart responds to His love and our will submits to the commands of God. Our life yields to obedience in our service to Him. Faith goes beyond reason, it believes without understanding why. ( Heb 11:1) Faith chooses to endure ill treatment (Heb 11:25) Faith accepts all things as a part of God will, Paul’s imprisonment.( Phil1:12) You are not born with faith, it comes from hearing Gods word(Rom 10:17) You cannot be saved without faith.(John 3:36) No peace with God without faith.(Rom 5:1) You are justified by faith(Gal 2:16) Christ dwells in our hearts by faith (Eph 3:17) The Spirit is received by faith (Gal 3:2) And finally Jesus alone is the author and finisher of our faith.(Heb 12:2)

hope this helps !!!

 

[Doug Brents]

The doctrine of faith and salvation. Faith Basics 101

πίστις, (a) faith, belief, trust, generally of the leaning of the entire human personality upon God or the Messiah in absolute trust and confidence in His power, wisdom, and goodness. The older meaning, intellectual conviction of certain truths, is often present. (In Eph. 1:15 [shorter text] εἰς = among); (b) with the article, the faith (in Lk. 18:8 perhaps the necessary faith or the faith that perseveres), the Christian faith, Ac. 6:7, 13:8, 16:5, 24:24, Gal. 1:23, 3:23, 6:10, Eph. 4:13, Jude 3, Jude 20, &c.; (c) as a psychological faculty, Heb. 11:1; (d) integrity, faithfulness, trustworthiness, loyalty, Mt. 23:23, Rom. 1:17(?), Gal. 5:22, 2 Tim. 4:7; (e) a guarantee, Ac. 17:31.[1] Lexicon to the Greek New Testament.

1-You are not born with faith, it comes from hearing Gods word(Rom 10:17)
2-You cannot be saved without faith.(John 3:36)
3-No peace with God without faith.(Rom 5:1)
4-You are justified by faith(Gal 2:16)
5-Christ dwells in our hearts by faith (Eph 3:17)
6-The Spirit is received by faith (Gal 3:2)
7- You become a child of God through faith ( John 1:12-13 )
8- You are sealed with the Holy Spirit after you believe the gospel ( Ephesians 1:13 )

Faith that saves demonstrated below.

Luke 19:5-10

5 And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.

6 And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully.

7 And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.

8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, for so much as he also is a son of Abraham.

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

To save- it means to deliver out of danger

Salvation- refers to the activity which produces the state of safety

Savior- is reserved for the one who saves.

We sometimes talk about saving things but Jesus only used the word in with man whom He saved.

Luke 19:9- This is the only time Jesus used the word salvation and that was with Zacchaeus. Christ’s purpose was one of seeking and saving the lost. Zacchaeus was a rich tax collector who was looked down upon for his livelihood. He was despised by those around him. When Jesus approached him and Zacchaeus looked up at Him , Jesus asked him to use his house and Zacchaeus gladly came down and received Him. When they went into the house the multitude murmured and within a short visit Zacchaeus was repentant of his ill gains which was evidence of his new found faith in the Savior. Salvation is the power that takes hold of a person and remakes him.

Here are some verses that Jesus used the word save.

Luke 6:9- Jesus restored the withered hand

Luke 8:48- Jesus healed the woman with the issue of blood

Luke 8:50- Jesus raised Jairus daughter from the dead

Luke 17:19- Jesus cleansed the lepers

Luke 18:42- Jesus healed the blind


So as we can see to save means to completely remove or destroy those destructive forces. To restore all that had been lost. Salvation in the teaching of Jesus is the complete change from one condition to its opposite. Jesus confronted man with the reality of sin. The religious people of his day hated Him without a cause because they loved their sin. Jesus taught us to “repent toward God”(Matt 4:17) To believe in Me (John 6:28,29) and “test Me”, will to do My will. ( John 7:17)

Eternal life is to know Christ ( John 17:3) Jesus said you are my disciples if you abide in Me. ( John 8:31,32) Apart from Him I can do nothing.(John 15:5)

Faith is a conviction of the mind that Christ is God.

You are completely correct right up until this last sentence. Faith is much more than just a "conviction of the mind".

Jesus said unless you believe that “ I AM” you will die in your sins.(John 8:24) Read the whole chapter. Paul declared one must confess Jesus is Lord(YHWH) to be saved and those who call upon Him will be delivered(Joel 2:32). Secondly it is a voluntary surrender to Him as Lord or Master of your life. By faith our mind trusts in God, our heart responds to His love and our will submits to the commands of God. Our life yields to obedience in our service to Him. Faith goes beyond reason, it believes without understanding why.

Faith does not believe without understanding why. Where do you get this nonsense? What is the Word of God if it is not written proof that is trustworthy so that we can believe and know what it is that we are trusting?

Faith chooses to endure ill treatment (Heb 11:25) Faith accepts all things as a part of God will, Paul’s imprisonment.( Phil1:12) You are not born with faith, it comes from hearing Gods word(Rom 10:17) You cannot be saved without faith.(John 3:36) No peace with God without faith.(Rom 5:1) You are justified by faith(Gal 2:16) Christ dwells in our hearts by faith (Eph 3:17) The Spirit is received by faith (Gal 3:2) And finally Jesus alone is the author and finisher of our faith.(Heb 12:2)

hope this helps !!!

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Faith is a conviction of the mind that Christ is God. Jesus said unless you believe that “ I AM” you will die in your sins.(John 8:24)

I challenge you to review all instances in which Jesus used the term "faith". In the gospels, it appears 44 times, at least in the NIV.

Jesus came to save. Faith is essential to salvation. So, if faith were "a conviction of the mind that Christ is God", Jesus would have explained that in at least one of the 44 verses in which "faith" appears.
You are hanging all the definition of faith given by Jesus in a single verse... a single verse that, by the way, does not say "faith" and that does not say "I am God". Forty-four chances to define faith wasted, and one verse that some interpret as indirectly saying "I am God."

It would be perhaps very enriching to examine each of those 44 instances.