Doug Brents
Active Member
Are you going to answer the question posed? Or are you just going to attack my character?
"Works Salvation"
- Thread starter Seabass
- Start date
Titus
Active Member
Titus
Active Member
His salvation is for all the world but not all in the world will recieve it.
His salvation is forever but not all will be saved in the end.
Because His grace is conditional.
Belief(condition) and obedience(condition) to recieve salvation.
Faithful until death(condition) to stay saved, Revelation 2:10
God does not break His covenants with His people. But we do.
Ephesians 1:13-14
I am sorry Red, but that is just absolute nonsense. I have NEVER told you anything even close to that.
Red, Ephesians 2:5 does indeed present the blessed truth. Unfortunately, in your adherence to the heresy invented, or at least championed, by Augustine, you destroy completely the very truth that is there revealed.Ephesians 2:5
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are savedAnd hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: "
Brother, you truly need to reconsider your position on this blessed truth. The body has never been separated from the head from the foundation of the world, never. Jim, these scriptures reveals that you understanding is wrong on this blessed truth.
Letting it speak to you, it says, "even when you were dead in your trespasses...." What trespasses is Paul talking about? He tells you explicitly the trespasses that he is referring to. He said in verse 2 that they were the trespasses and sins "in which you once walked, following the course of this world, carrying out the desires of the (your) body and mind ....". All of that has reference to you SINCE you were born. Even if you want to believe the lie that you were born that way, there is no rational way to argue that you were that way before you were even conceived. To do so uses the interpretive processes that convinced Galileo's prosecutors that the God said the sun revolves around the earth.
It is a real shame that anyone who claims to revere salvation by Grace actually is so completely illiterate and uninformed about God's grace.
The reason they can't really 100% practise their Calvinist doctrine in real life is, in part, because since election, hence eternal life, according to their doctrine is independent of their own selves and therefore absolutely undetectable in their own selves. They will tell you that "the tree is known by its fruit", but since every real tree, i.e. person, yields both good and bad "fruit", they can never be sure how much good "fruit" it takes to truly know they are among the elect. Even Hitler was kind and gentle with his dogs and those around him that he liked. The problem is further compounded, since the doctrine also says that even what looks like good fruit is really bad fruit from the non-elect.
brightfame52
Active Member
You deceived believing in salvation by works, what else to say ? Thats not attacking your character, you probably a nice guy, honest and religious.
brightfame52
Active Member
No! Grace, grace and more grace. Something that you seem to know so little about.
Selah
Active Member
You got it. I agree.
brightfame52
Active Member
@Titus quoted @Seabass
No its not, unless the obedience to Gods will is after one is saved. However if someone means that God saves us only after we obey His will, thats works, works and more works.
The fact is, many are saved , made righteous after the obedience of one, who obeyed Gods will for them Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
His obedience sanctified them as well Heb 10:5-10
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
No its not, unless the obedience to Gods will is after one is saved. However if someone means that God saves us only after we obey His will, thats works, works and more works.
The fact is, many are saved , made righteous after the obedience of one, who obeyed Gods will for them Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
His obedience sanctified them as well Heb 10:5-10
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
brightfame52
Active Member
I do not. But given that you don't understand what Paul is talking about when he speaks of salvation not by works. But you shouldn't feel all that bad since it is really the Calvinism that you believe in that is confused as well.
brightfame52
Active Member
Titus
Active Member
You teach one must show obedient works after one is saved as evidence one is saved.
Before or after salvation, you are teaching one must do works or there cannot be a regenerated heart.
Even you are teaching one must have works for they are the evidence of salvation.
No works, no evidence.
No evidence no salvation.
brightfame52, when you believe you were saved. Did you change? Is your life now centered around doing good works? Is that what you were created for?
Ephesians 2:10,
- for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them
Titus
Active Member
You teach one must show obedient works after one is saved as evidence one is saved.
Before or after salvation, you are teaching one must do works or there cannot be a regenerated heart.
Even you are teaching one must have works for they are the evidence of salvation.
No works, no evidence.
No evidence no salvation.
brightfame52, when you believe you were saved. Did you change? Is your life now centered around doing good works? Is that what you were created for?
Ephesians 2:10,
- for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them
How does one abey the gospel which is the power of God unto salvation if you have to be saved before you can believe and obey the gospel? Your soteriology runs in an unobtainium circle. It is a catch 22.
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brightfame52
Active Member
@Titus quoted @Seabass
No its not, unless the obedience to Gods will is after one is saved. However if someone means that God saves us only after we obey His will, thats works, works and more works.
The fact is, many are saved , made righteous after the obedience of one, who obeyed Gods will for them Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
His obedience sanctified them as well Heb 10:5-10
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
No its not, unless the obedience to Gods will is after one is saved. However if someone means that God saves us only after we obey His will, thats works, works and more works.
The fact is, many are saved , made righteous after the obedience of one, who obeyed Gods will for them Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
His obedience sanctified them as well Heb 10:5-10
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
brightfame52
Active Member
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