"Works Salvation"

charismaticlady said:
A born again Christian cannot sin, 1 John 3:9. I've been born again for 48 years and do not have any desire to break God's law, and it is the same for all who are actually born again. I am not unique in that promise. 1 John 3:5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.
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A born again can not LIVE IN SIN.

please check the greek.

Also. John said if we claim we have no sin we are deceived.

If you think you have not sinned. and are not sinning, You are deceived

those are john's words. not mine
charismaticlady said:
If you are breaking God's laws, you have not been born again of the Spirit and are still under the law.
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No. this is not true.. not sure where you came up with this
 
charismaticlady said:
You are reading out of context. 1 John 3 is not about personal immaturities of the fruit of the Spirit, it is speaking of lawlessness, verse 4. The New Covenant is the laws of God written on our hearts to obey. We cannot commit those sins, 1 John 3:9. The word "practice" is not in the original but in the corrupted codices of Alexandria.

Now regarding those personal immaturities. Those are addressed in 2 Peter 1:5-11. Read to the end and you will see that the Author and Finisher of our faith CAN make you mature in ALL of them to where you "NEVER STUMBLE." Do you believe Jesus is doing this in you?
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lol. I am interpreting the passage

It says, A person who lives in habitual sin, has never seen or known God.

Whoever is born of God can not live in sin.

Its a lifestyle.

Again, John said if we say we have no sin (present tense) we deceive ourselves.

your argument is with John not me
 
Titus said:
1John
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1 John 2:17​

“And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.”

This is not a conditional scripture in order to obtain, but a scriptures declaring a biblical truth, and it is true that folks who keep the word of God are the "only" ones giving biblical evidence that they shall abide forever.
Titus said:
Unconditional Election.
Reformed theology.
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Unconditional election is a Bible truth, for without it, no man would have been saved from sin and condemnation, "never "~ or, Jesus Christ died in vain, period. Believe what you desire to believe, and you will, but you will end up wrong.
 
@Titus
Titus said:
Then why not begin to practice what you preach?
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Titus, I do, and have for over fifty some years since coming to Christ around 26 years age. We look for the same type of folks Paul did, when he went into the synagogues, etc. Truth can only be given from one person who that has faith, to another person that has faith~Romans 1:17 Titus, the gospel is the power of God only to believers, not unbelievers, to them it is pure foolishness and always will be until God opens their hearts to receive His truth.
Titus said:
Your wasting your time on here.
Go do whatever you enjoy doing.
If its carnal sin.
Or godly living like Cornelius.
Do anything except evangelism because your religion makes this work a total waste of time on earth.
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We know whom we can teach and whom we cannot teach. We look for lambs, sheps of God, not goats.
John 21:15-17~So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep".
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We follow the Lord's words to Peter, and you would do well to do the same. The Spirit of God will bring the lost sheep in, no problem.

I may come back and finish this since I must leave for a while.
 
Red Baker said:
Believe what you desire to believe, and you will, but you will end up wrong.
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Irrelevant what we believe as to election.
Nothing man believes or does affects his eternal destiny.

It doesn't matter if I'm wrong in my beliefs. I cannot affect what God has already determined.
Your beliefs about your standing with God is also irrelevant.
I believe I'm saved.
You believe you're saved.
Only God chooses. We have no ability to be elected. Our beliefs are irrelevant. Our good works are irrelevant(not saved by works), our faithfulness is irrelevant(not saved by godly living which is our works).
God deceives the non-elect into believing they are elected.
2Thessalonians 2:10-12,
- and with all deception of unrighteousness for those who perish because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved
- and for this reason God will send them strong delusion that they should believe a lie
- that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness


God could have decieved you into believing calvinism is Biblical.
It could be doctrines of demons sent from God.
Its possible that God has sent you a strong delusion to believe lies.
We cannot know when God saved Paul as you said.
Therefore we cannot know if or when God saved you or has deceived you.

There are plenty of lost folks who do good works. Doesn't prove they are saved.
If so, then no one will be saved without doing good works.
 
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Jim said:
How does one abey the gospel which is the power of God unto salvation if you have to be saved before you can believe and obey the gospel? Your soteriology runs in an unobtainium circle. It is a catch 22.
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You not making sense The Gospel is being believed by the saved, its the power of God to the saved, not the lost. 1 Cor 1:18

18 ;For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. Are saved here is a preset tense passive voice, they are presently in a saved state and believing and to them its the power of God,

But to them that are in a present lost state, its not the power of God, its foolishness.

So Rom 1:16 is about the saved, the Gospel is to them the power of God. Of course I know you cant receive this truth
 
Red Baker said:
We know whom we can teach and whom we cannot teach. We look for lambs, sheps of God, not goats
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Obviously you cannot prove any of your claims to be true.
If you really knew you would not be trying to convince me(which is mans work btw).

I will go to my grave rebuking calvinism.
2Timothy 4:2,
- preach the word be ready in season and out of season, convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching
 
brightfame52 said:
@Titus quoted @Seabass




No its not, unless the obedience to Gods will is after one is saved. However if someone means that God saves us only after we obey His will, thats works, works and more works.

The fact is, many are saved , made righteous after the obedience of one, who obeyed Gods will for them Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
His obedience sanctified them as well Heb 10:5-10

5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
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Where is your evidence that you are saved, elect?
 
brightfame52 said:
You not making sense The Gospel is being believed by the saved, its the power of God to the saved, not the lost. 1 Cor 1:18

18 ;For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. Are saved here is a preset tense passive voice, they are presently in a saved state and believing and to them its the power of God,

But to them that are in a present lost state, its not the power of God, its foolishness.

So Rom 1:16 is about the saved, the Gospel is to them the power of God. Of course I know you cant receive this truth
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Do you not know your own doctrine?
In calvinism you must first be regenerated i.e. born again in order to become a believer in the gospel.

Salvation precedes faith in calvinism.
 
Red Baker said:
@Titus

Titus, I do, and have for over fifty some years since coming to Christ around 26 years age. We look for the same type of folks Paul did, when he went into the synagogues, etc. Truth can only be given from one person who that has faith, to another person that has faith~Romans 1:17 Titus, the gospel is the power of God only to believers, not unbelievers, to them it is pure foolishness and always will be until God opens their hearts to receive His truth.

We know whom we can teach and whom we cannot teach. We look for lambs, sheps of God, not goats.


We follow the Lord's words to Peter, and you would do well to do the same. The Spirit of God will bring the lost sheep in, no problem.

I may come back and finish this since I must leave for a while.
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Three questions:
1) What is your evidence of your election?
2) Will a savage who never heard of Jesus in this lifetime be saved if he was elected by God before the foundation of the world?
3) Will aborted babies that never knew about Jesus nor believed the gospel, be saved if they are elected by God before the foundation of the world?
 
Eternally-Grateful said:
please check the greek.
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In which codex? I looked up practices in all its forms, i.e., practice etc., in Strong's and it does not have any verse that John wrote. John never wrote that word, only "commit."
Eternally-Grateful said:
Again, John said if we say we have no sin (present tense) we deceive ourselves.

your argument is with John not me
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EG, verses 5-10 is a contrast between Light vs. Darkness. 8 and 10 are both verses of darkness just like 6. The Christian is verse 7 because he did 9.
 

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